P790 to ??

[MS.71]

Hey All,

 

As many do I started my journey with P790s back when I needed a ton of forgiveness. Have worked my way to an 8 now and while almost all my swing practice is with irons it's probably the worst part of my game. However P790s are too hot for me as I've got 7i swing speed in the high 90s and I need something more consistent. Are the P770s the natural progression from there? Do I try MCs and see how I like em, maybe think about combo if I really take to em with 770s? I feel like there's not a ton of irons in the forgiving but not designed to go far and high with low spin category.

[mxskier]

790770 combo, t200/t150, zx5/7 combo, apex 21. 
 

If irons are worst part, keep forgiveness/size in long irons, and tighter short irons for scoring. 

[Jeri6gt]

The 770s are "supposed" to be 790s in a smaller size.

[MS.71]

15 minutes ago, mxskier said:

790770 combo, t200/t150, zx5/7 combo, apex 21. 
 

If irons are worst part, keep forgiveness/size in long irons, and tighter short irons for scoring. 

Thanks I'll try some of those. My golf club "hot take" is that clubs like t100/150, zx7, p7mc aren't THAT much less forgiving than something like P790 which historically has the sweet spot "flier" in it anyway. Those clubs are already tighter on front/back dispersion than the player's distance segment, and for someone who's an 8/10/12 your miss pattern isn't a few mm here and there, it's by many mm and even fat/thin. In some simulator testing in the past I just haven't seen a huge drop-off on what I'd consider bad strikes from those types of clubs. But that's crazy anecdotal obviously and just a theory of mine.

[mxskier]

8 minutes ago, MS.71 said:

Thanks I'll try some of those. My golf club "hot take" is that clubs like t100/150, zx7, p7mc aren't THAT much less forgiving than something like P790 which historically has the sweet spot "flier" in it anyway. Those clubs are already tighter on front/back dispersion than the player's distance segment, and for someone who's an 8/10/12 your miss pattern isn't a few mm here and there, it's by many mm and even fat/thin. In some simulator testing in the past I just haven't seen a huge drop-off on what I'd consider bad strikes from those types of clubs. But that's crazy anecdotal obviously and just a theory of mine.

Despite wrx comments, mc is much less forgiving. It’s titleist cb, cobra cb, new apex cb. The forgiveness is relative to the MB line. 
 

get something forged with tungsten, some tech in the mid irons with single piece forged cavity in the low irons. Don’t go lower than the equivalent of T150/100, 770, zx7, etc.. unless you just want the look. Because forgiveness above 36ish degrees is all related to loft, so any fliers at that spot aren’t related to tech.

[MS.71]

7 minutes ago, mxskier said:

Despite wrx comments, mc is much less forgiving. It’s titleist cb, cobra cb, new apex cb. The forgiveness is relative to the MB line. 
 

get something forged with tungsten, some tech in the mid irons with single piece forged cavity in the low irons. Don’t go lower than the equivalent of T150/100, 770, zx7, etc.. unless you just want the look. Because forgiveness above 36ish degrees is all related to loft, so any fliers at that spot aren’t related to tech.

Oh no I wouldn't get something like that for myself. I trust fitters more than I trust myself so I'd go with whatever they recommend, and I highly doubt any of em are shoving something like that into my hands. More just saying if I am 20mm off the toe my p790 is going to be 25-30 yards short anyway. When the strike pattern and general dispersion is less precise I think the forgiveness thing is more exaggerated than the reality of it. I think as you get better and you're good enough to be deciding between t100 and cb, then it becomes more viable.

[mxskier]

1 hour ago, MS.71 said:

Oh no I wouldn't get something like that for myself. I trust fitters more than I trust myself so I'd go with whatever they recommend, and I highly doubt any of em are shoving something like that into my hands. More just saying if I am 20mm off the toe my p790 is going to be 25-30 yards short anyway. When the strike pattern and general dispersion is less precise I think the forgiveness thing is more exaggerated than the reality of it. I think as you get better and you're good enough to be deciding between t100 and cb, then it becomes more viable.

The forgiveness at that point is true. But the forgiveness is 2-5mm off. There was a picture from the jpx900 years ago showing the “sweet spot” area for each model. The idea being if you are 5mm off, you will still nearly get full distance and direction. 20mm you’re hosed either way. 

[bvanlieu]

9 hours ago, MS.71 said:

Thanks I'll try some of those. My golf club "hot take" is that clubs like t100/150, zx7, p7mc aren't THAT much less forgiving than something like P790 which historically has the sweet spot "flier" in it anyway. Those clubs are already tighter on front/back dispersion than the player's distance segment, and for someone who's an 8/10/12 your miss pattern isn't a few mm here and there, it's by many mm and even fat/thin. In some simulator testing in the past I just haven't seen a huge drop-off on what I'd consider bad strikes from those types of clubs. But that's crazy anecdotal obviously and just a theory of mine.

 
I would not compare the MC to any of those. It’s a blade like object. 😀

 

I have gamed the 790 for several years in the 5-7 blending with cb and new 770 at the top. I also have cbs and even tome 760s. 

 

There is a lot of keyboard banter vs playing the clubs. Over time thin strikes and toe strikes travel a tad more. It’s not going to save you from a 20y dud but a 3y gain on a meh strike may carry that bunker.  Give you a putt

 

when you game it over time you see the results. All of the helpful clubs well. Help. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MS.71]

57 minutes ago, bvanlieu said:

 
I would not compare the MC to any of those. It’s a blade like object. 😀

 

I have gamed the 790 for several years in the 5-7 blending with cb and new 770 at the top. I also have cbs and even tome 760s. 

 

There is a lot of keyboard banter vs playing the clubs. Over time thin strikes and toe strikes travel a tad more. It’s not going to save you from a 20y dud but a 3y gain on a meh strike may carry that bunker.  Give you a putt

 

when you game it over time you see the results. All of the helpful clubs well. Help. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That’s a good way to think of it

[Rob_shields]

I swapped out my P790s for PXG 0317 Cbs. Crazy thing with the swap, while mishits don't fly as far, they feel better. 

[ZPrime]

I went from P790 to T100S and love it. Still love P790 the added precision and consistency has been fun with T100S

Edited August 12, 2023 by ZPrime

[MS.71]

12 hours ago, ZPrime said:

I went from P790 to T100S and love it. Still love P790 the added precision and consistency has been fun with T100S

I've messed around with a T100S set before that's actually got PX 7.0s which is way stiffer than anything I've played and that set just agrees with me, I smoke them. It's hard to believe they go as far or further than P790 because it's visually so much less chunky but I guess strong lofts and good technology does the trick. I just don't need distance so I feel like it's hard to find something closer to game improvement forgiveness in a more traditional loft and without super low CG that isn't designed for slower swing players to help get the ball launching. But there's so many good irons out there, I'll find something

[MS.71]

22 hours ago, Rob_shields said:

I swapped out my P790s for PXG 0317 Cbs. Crazy thing with the swap, while mishits don't fly as far, they feel better. 

Yea and I think that's important. Especially if you're looking to get better and improve, the feedback is great. I feel like you probably have a similar-ish front to back dispersion overall comparing the two.

[erikro]

P790 are tough to beat. What shaft are you using? Maybe you need something stiffer.

[BirdieBob]

Maybe the new Titleist T200?

 

 

[Minarets]

High 90s SS with a 7i! Yippee. I wish I had that problem.  
 

I went from 921F to P790 ‘21 this Jan and while the feel isn’t forged for sure the mishits feel way better.  I am a 4.6 GHIN and irons are definitely the worst part of my game.  I survive on hitting most fairways and getting up and down. I hit way more greens with the P790 than I did the 921F and don’t miss the Mizuno feel.  I have always been a PING and Mizuno player and quite frankly have always hated TM, Callaway and Titleist…no reason other than because.  
 

the P790 feel powerful but never do what I don’t expect from them.  I have not experienced any flyer issues I once read about.   I have them paired with the MMT shafts and absolutely love them. And of course I’m playing a Callaway Paradym driver.  Everything about my bag is against my being, but I love  it.  

[Frank Newport]

P770, 223s, and similar designs are all going to be “hot” compared to a traditional CB. Especially for someone swinging 90mph+ with a 7i. They’re also going to be more forgiving so you need to pick your poison. 
 

If you buy the P770s now, you might be shopping for a CB in a year from now if you continue to improve and still yearn for consistency. You can probably save yourself some time and money if you just pair the CBs with your P790 long irons and work on your ball striking. 

[MS.71]

3 hours ago, Minarets said:

High 90s SS with a 7i! Yippee. I wish I had that problem.  
 

I went from 921F to P790 ‘21 this Jan and while the feel isn’t forged for sure the mishits feel way better.  I am a 4.6 GHIN and irons are definitely the worst part of my game.  I survive on hitting most fairways and getting up and down. I hit way more greens with the P790 than I did the 921F and don’t miss the Mizuno feel.  I have always been a PING and Mizuno player and quite frankly have always hated TM, Callaway and Titleist…no reason other than because.  
 

the P790 feel powerful but never do what I don’t expect from them.  I have not experienced any flyer issues I once read about.   I have them paired with the MMT shafts and absolutely love them. And of course I’m playing a Callaway Paradym driver.  Everything about my bag is against my being, but I love  it.  

I respect going with what performs even though you hate it. My driver for the longest time was a Rogue Max LS and I hated the way it looked sounded and felt but by golly I could hit that thing so I kept it in the bag until something finally beat it out in a fitting and on the course. I do find every now and again I get the "sweet spot flier" where you just hit that sucker 0/0 off the sweet spot and it's a rocket ship. Trying to harness the speed into technique and that's where I'd like to come down to something a little more traditional in terms of loft and feedback.

[MS.71]

2 hours ago, Frank Newport said:

P770, 223s, and similar designs are all going to be “hot” compared to a traditional CB. Especially for someone swinging 90mph+ with a 7i. They’re also going to be more forgiving so you need to pick your poison. 
 

If you buy the P770s now, you might be shopping for a CB in a year from now if you continue to improve and still yearn for consistency. You can probably save yourself some time and money if you just pair the CBs with your P790 long irons and work on your ball striking. 

Ya, great point. I've generally been against getting re-fitted because I take weekly lessons (when in town) and my game/swing are ever evolving. The 221s are sexy and I hit those well when messing around with them at the shop but I feel like I'm not good enough for them quite yet.

[Frank Newport]

1 hour ago, MS.71 said:

Ya, great point. I've generally been against getting re-fitted because I take weekly lessons (when in town) and my game/swing are ever evolving. The 221s are sexy and I hit those well when messing around with them at the shop but I feel like I'm not good enough for them quite yet.

There are no rules. Consistency is the goal and if that means SGI irons at the top and blades at the bottom, so be it.

 

[MS.71]

15 minutes ago, Frank Newport said:

There are no rules. Consistency is the goal and if that means SGI irons at the top and blades at the bottom, so be it.

 

You're definitely right. Just need to go get fit and trust the data.

[Minarets]

I am personally not a fan (doesn’t mean I am judging others, but this is for me and my game) of  “I used to be a mid-high handicap and now I’m a single digit so now give me a CB/MB,” unless you are just a pure ball striker.  I see posts here all the time about that. For me, regardless of my handicap, unless I am a machine with my irons, something like P770/P790 can certainly be enough.  (Or others of the more forgiving kind)
 

maybe it’s because my game is very good with driver/wedges/putter and I struggle with hitting enough greens but I want all the help I can get and not make the game more challenging. 

Edited August 15, 2023 by Minarets

[ReefDonkey]

On 8/10/2023 at 7:29 PM, MS.71 said:

Hey All,

 

As many do I started my journey with P790s back when I needed a ton of forgiveness. Have worked my way to an 8 now and while almost all my swing practice is with irons it's probably the worst part of my game. However P790s are too hot for me as I've got 7i swing speed in the high 90s and I need something more consistent. Are the P770s the natural progression from there? Do I try MCs and see how I like em, maybe think about combo if I really take to em with 770s? I feel like there's not a ton of irons in the forgiving but not designed to go far and high with low spin category.

 

if you got a high 90’s swing speed on your 7i  maybe you’d be better suited to retro lofted clubs.  A 5i that’s 27 or 28 degrees, a 7i at 36 degrees and a PW that’s 47 or 48 degrees.  With that kind of swing speed you don’t need delofted irons. JMHO

Edited August 15, 2023 by ReefDonkey

[MS.71]

On 8/12/2023 at 5:49 PM, Minarets said:

I am personally not a fan (doesn’t mean I am judging others, but this is for me and my game) of  “I used to be a mid-high handicap and now I’m a single digit so not give me a CB/MB,” unless you are just a pure ball striker.  I see posts here all the time about that. For me, regardless of my handicap, unless I am a machine with my irons, something like P770/P790 can certainly be enough.  (Or others of the more forgiving kind)
 

maybe it’s because my game is very good with driver/wedges/putter and I struggle with hitting enough greens but I want all the help I can get and not make the game more challenging. 

My issue is speed. Most of the clubs designed for forgiveness are done so to also help players with slower swing speeds. I’d love p790 forgiveness but in a package that produces tighter and more reliable dispersion, and a gapping that’s not as wide. I don’t feel like many irons exist like that which is why I wanted to see what others thought. I’m someone who has no desire to make the game harder, or to be some magician with irons who shapes the ball. I just want to hit the same shot every time. I don’t believe p790s are designed for my specific needs.

[iclypso]

You mentioned JPX and Mizuno in this thread but no one has suggested that you try those out so I will. How about the JPX Tour? If consistency is the key and you don't need your lofts jacked, this clubhead is checking some boxes.  Forgiveness is pretty reasonable.  I'm playing them as a once-a-month decent ballstriker, and I haven't wanted more forgiveness. My 6i swing speed is 88-90mph.

[nickosbad]

If your irons are the worst part of your game then IMO moving to something less forgiving is probably not the answer.

 

One suggestion would be to slow your iron swing down and focus on strike rather than swinging that fast. There's nothing to be gained (apart from ego massaging) in swinging an iron that fast so focus on tempo and swing smoother...you'll probably find that your strike and shot consistency improves.

[bvanlieu]

With high speed, when you catch middle you will need to work on gapping. This is typically done with loft tweaking. The club type is really secondary IMHO. I am not pitching to keep the 790s: they are stronger lofted as many clubs are, CG and other aspects designed to help get the ball up for good land angles.

 

Being in the < 1% of golfer speed category is a blessing and a curse I suppose. 790s bend as do other clubs 🙂 a 770 would be a starting point for slightly tigher lofts.

 

JPX line is fantastic, a T150 or T200, all sorts of clubs out there but you likely will always need to be aware of tweaking lofts for gapping. 

 

 

[Jeff58]

10 hours ago, MS.71 said:

My issue is speed. Most of the clubs designed for forgiveness are done so to also help players with slower swing speeds. I’d love p790 forgiveness but in a package that produces tighter and more reliable dispersion, and a gapping that’s not as wide. I don’t feel like many irons exist like that which is why I wanted to see what others thought. I’m someone who has no desire to make the game harder, or to be some magician with irons who shapes the ball. I just want to hit the same shot every time. I don’t believe p790s are designed for my specific needs.

The intended target for player’s distance irons generically are older players who are accurate but have lost swing speed and want/need additional distance. That’s the anti-you. When high swing speed players with “average” dispersion use them, they indeed go very far in some direction.

 

IMO there’s a total of 1 iron set directed specifically at your needs - i210/230’s. I guess that’s sort of two sets… The Mizuno 223 is an apparent attempt to clone the Pings onto a forged piece, but their success is for you to determine.

[ReefDonkey]

25 minutes ago, Jeff58 said:

The intended target for player’s distance irons generically are older players who are accurate but have lost swing speed and want/need additional distance. That’s the anti-you. When high swing speed players with “average” dispersion use them, they indeed go very far in some direction.

 

IMO there’s a total of 1 iron set directed specifically at your needs - i210/230’s. I guess that’s sort of two sets… The Mizuno 223 is an apparent attempt to clone the Pings onto a forged piece, but their success is for you to determine.

Ping i230's in retro spec lofts would be perfect for the OP

[Mobert19]

6 hours ago, Jeff58 said:

The intended target for player’s distance irons generically are older players who are accurate but have lost swing speed and want/need additional distance. That’s the anti-you. When high swing speed players with “average” dispersion use them, they indeed go very far in some direction.

 

IMO there’s a total of 1 iron set directed specifically at your needs - i210/230’s. I guess that’s sort of two sets… The Mizuno 223 is an apparent attempt to clone the Pings onto a forged piece, but their success is for you to determine.

Having played the i230, I would also throw in PXG either 0311P or 0317CB (or a combo) 

Edited August 15, 2023 by Mobert19