Rogue ST line vs Paradym line

[NikeTaylormade891]

I've got an opportunity to exchange my damaged driver for a discount on Rogue ST or Paradym

 

I plan to hit some heads on a trackman locally, but the fitter really only has current gen heads (Paradym) in their fitting cart.

 

Comparing Rogue ST and Paradym lines, it feels like Callaway consolidated a bit, but now I feel like I may be 'in between' Paradym heads.

 

My current driver is an Epic Flash Sub Zero. I am interested in the Rogue ST Max LS, Paradym, and Paradym TD. 

 

Head size wise, from largest to smallest, they look like: Paradym - Rogue STMLS - My Epic Flash SZ -  Paradym TD

 

Feels like normal Paradym looks larger than my head, while TD looks quite a bit smaller. I am probably going to need to be fit to decide on which to get -  but on the Rogue line it seems like the Max LS would be a good fit for me.

 

If someone played a Rogue ST Max LS, which Paradym do you think would be the best fit? Are these new TD drivers, with their slightly smaller heads than subzeroes of a few years ago, significantly more of a 'players club' than those were? I usually need lower spin, but wondering if normal Paradym is pretty good at lowering spin too

[CactusGolf]

I've played the Epic Speed, Rogue ST Max, and now the Paradym.  Played the Epic Speed for 2 years, the Rogue for 4 rounds, and the Paradym since it came out.

 

By far the Paradym is one of my favorite releases.  IMHO, it feels like the standard Paradym is the best of both worlds (low spin & forgiveness).  I wasn't a huge fan of the Rogue ST feeling off the face and feels like the Paradym is significantly more forgiving on mishits.  I know feel/sound is the same, but the feel/sound in Paradym is better.

 

The spin on Paradym is definitely lower for me than the Rogue ST Max.  I'm not sure how close we are, but the head is low spin enough for me.  (154.4 ball speed/ 11.2* launch, 2,208 spin, 265 carry, 287 total).

 

 

[pak]

10 hours ago, CactusGolf said:

I've played the Epic Speed, Rogue ST Max, and now the Paradym.  Played the Epic Speed for 2 years, the Rogue for 4 rounds, and the Paradym since it came out.

 

By far the Paradym is one of my favorite releases.  IMHO, it feels like the standard Paradym is the best of both worlds (low spin & forgiveness).  I wasn't a huge fan of the Rogue ST feeling off the face and feels like the Paradym is significantly more forgiving on mishits.  I know feel/sound is the same, but the feel/sound in Paradym is better.

 

The spin on Paradym is definitely lower for me than the Rogue ST Max.  I'm not sure how close we are, but the head is low spin enough for me.  (154.4 ball speed/ 11.2* launch, 2,208 spin, 265 carry, 287 total).

 

 

Could you provide your thoughts and comparison of the Paradym vs. the Epic Speed please? Is it worth the upgrade? 

[BallerNate]

Very interested in this thread.

 

I’ve owned the OG Rogue, Mavrik, Epic Max LS, and am currently in the Rogue ST Max.

 

For me the Rogue ST Max has been by far the best out of all of them personally, so have been curious as to whether the Paradym line is really better and is it worth the upgrade.

 

The thing that stands out for me is that the Lie Angle with the Paradym TD and standard Paradym is 3* flatter than the Rogue ST Max, so in terms of comparable fit I’d most likely only look at the Paradym X.

 

Love my Rogue ST Max, but always looking to improve performance and find the best fit possible, so pretty much just a matter of time until I’ll pick up a Paradym X and put them head-to-head.

[dmeeksDC]

They’re all heads that will perform very well. More about which one works for you. If you played the Epic Flash Sub Zero, IMO you can play the Triple Diamond as long as you get the right loft. They’re not that small, only 10cc smaller than the standard head, I believe. But regardless, it is quite playable.
 

I played the Rogue ST LS last year and did well with it, and don’t really see myself as a Triple Diamond kind of player, but the Paradym TD is a spectacular driver, just a bit longer, distance consistency is improved, dispersion is tighter. I think it fits a broader segment of golfers compared to previous TD heads. It is not super low spin depending on the loft and setup, it is lowish spin and a good fitting will dial that in. If it looks small to you by comparison, I’d bet it won’t look small after you hit a few. 

[bvanlieu]

I commented in the other thread on this, the PTD is an excellent club and on paper if blind I would lean towards suggesting that over the R-LS, which is a very good driver itself.

 

One question is: why were you fit into a SZ in the first place? Did you play heavy weight forward? Delivery was spinny, SZ helped or super speed hitter or both?

 

I find there to be subtle differences in the 4 heads in the Paradym and Rogue line, I can game any of them personally but like the forgiveness of the standard paradym a tad batter then my old Rogue LS. 

 

I spent some time with my Mevo+ comparing the R-LS and Paradym for my swing...Paradym was just a tad more spin consistent, but both kept me in the 2000's spin wise unless I put a rubbish swing at it. Going after it, I felt the paradym was a tad more forgiving with a bit higher MOI.  It really wasn't a distance thing, more dispersion for me personally. Middle is middle on any modern driver. 

 

The TD was fun to hit, *great* to look at the ball IMHO, but I don't trust my consistency enough to spend $ on it right now...but if I was to go back to having 2 driver heads, in the words of Mr. Austin: can I get a hellllyeaaaaahhhh? 

 

 

[phizzy30]

Epic Flash Sub Zero - Fade bias

Paradym TD - Neutral bias

 

I've tested the Epic SZ and own the Paradym TD.  Epic was less forgiving and fade biased whereas the Paradym TD is dead neutral and more forgiving than you would expect from a TD head.  I've had more than one occasion where I would miss out towards the toe with the Paradym TD and thought the ball would hook hard left to look up and see it draw 15-20 yards and end up in the first cut.  Ball speeds and spin are also more consistent with the Paradym TD as well.  Definitely worth the upgrade, OP. 

[CactusGolf]

10 hours ago, pak said:

Could you provide your thoughts and comparison of the Paradym vs. the Epic Speed please? Is it worth the upgrade? 

100% worth the upgrade (IMHO).

 

I think the Epic Speed was a fantastic driver for me.  However, there were some big downsides too.  I had a lot of trouble delineating the face from the topline.   I like to have a color difference between face and topline, just personal preference.  Also, the Speed was semi-draw bias and sometimes draws turned into big hooks.  The forgiveness of the Paradym is much better for me as balls that would have been out of play stay inbounds (could be shaft change to Ventus TR Red Velocore too) and the mishits on the face do not lose as much distance or spin up as much as the Speed did.

 

[third-times-a-charm]

I'm still in the R ST line with limited testing of the Paradym line, but so far in fairways the R ST is staying. In driver the R ST Max will be tested against a Paradym X maybe this weekend.

[Avidswampthing66]

7 hours ago, dmeeksDC said:

They’re all heads that will perform very well. More about which one works for you. If you played the Epic Flash Sub Zero, IMO you can play the Triple Diamond as long as you get the right loft. They’re not that small, only 10cc smaller than the standard head, I believe. But regardless, it is quite playable.
 

I played the Rogue ST LS last year and did well with it, and don’t really see myself as a Triple Diamond kind of player, but the Paradym TD is a spectacular driver, just a bit longer, distance consistency is improved, dispersion is tighter. I think it fits a broader segment of golfers compared to previous TD heads. It is not super low spin depending on the loft and setup, it is lowish spin and a good fitting will dial that in. If it looks small to you by comparison, I’d bet it won’t look small after you hit a few. 

These are my findings as well.  I went OG Sim, Epic Max LS. Rogue Max LS, PTD.

The PTD is by far the firmest and lowest spinning.  Rogue LS was such an easy driver to hit and was long enough... Hated the sound of Epic Max LS but overall, a great driver.

[me05501]

I haven't hit any Paradym head yet. I tend to wait until the first or second price adjustment before I jump on the latest line.

 

OTOH I have played every head in the Rogue ST line as well as the Epic Max LS and a Rogue SubZero before that. 

 

I used to need the low spin heads more because my swing path was pretty steep. Coming from the Epic Max LS, I switched to the Rogue Max LS. As I've neutralized my path I've struggled a bit to get the face closed before impact and don't need a neutral/open face head like the LS.

 

My next purchase I over-corrected, playing a Rogue Max D for several months, but gradually it became obvious that all my misses and a lot of my good shots ended up left of center.

 

The plain old Rogue Max head has proven to be a great fit for my neutral path and attack angle. 

 

Once the Paradym heads fall to around $275-300 I'll start getting interested. 

 

 

Edited August 18, 2023 by me05501

[GeauxGolfLSU]

I will say that I have a Paradym TD and I love it. Never thought I'd be able to use that kind of head, but I also flipped the weights, so the heavy weight is in the back. It is a complete rocket launcher, and looks fantastic. I wouldn't hesitate to go with that one.

[Surfinguru]

Somewhat of a broad question, but I'll throw in my $.02 as 17hcp with a 92-95mph swing:

 

Paradym X. Shaped a bit like a BB head, but amazingly forgiving off the toe. Sound is really good as well. I have it matched with the latest HZRDUS Black, 60g stiff shaft. My FIR have gone up a few % points to now sitting over 50% and I've gained about 15yrds or so over the Epic Max with an Oban Isawa Gold in same weight and flex. (246yrd avg now). I tried the standard Paradym but couldn't keep the spin where we needed it to be and didn't even try the TD after we saw the numbers from the X. Now, unless it's a miss-hit, I'm parked right in the 2200-2400 RPM range on almost every shot. 

[stuman74]

On 8/21/2023 at 5:11 PM, Surfinguru said:

Somewhat of a broad question, but I'll throw in my $.02 as 17hcp with a 92-95mph swing:

 

Paradym X. Shaped a bit like a BB head, but amazingly forgiving off the toe. Sound is really good as well. I have it matched with the latest HZRDUS Black, 60g stiff shaft. My FIR have gone up a few % points to now sitting over 50% and I've gained about 15yrds or so over the Epic Max with an Oban Isawa Gold in same weight and flex. (246yrd avg now). I tried the standard Paradym but couldn't keep the spin where we needed it to be and didn't even try the TD after we saw the numbers from the X. Now, unless it's a miss-hit, I'm parked right in the 2200-2400 RPM range on almost every shot. 

I'm interested in one of the Paradym drivers as well, leaning mainly towards the Paradym X.  I have a Rogue ST Max D which has been decent and I need every bit of help I can get to fight my slice (aside learning to swing better).  The X is the upgrade to the D, correct?  Not the standard?

[Avidswampthing66]

13 hours ago, stuman74 said:

I'm interested in one of the Paradym drivers as well, leaning mainly towards the Paradym X.  I have a Rogue ST Max D which has been decent and I need every bit of help I can get to fight my slice (aside learning to swing better).  The X is the upgrade to the D, correct?  Not the standard?

Totally.  You can use the sliding weights in Paradym to help fight the slice, but the X already has the weight set there.  IF you were planning on lessons and improving the slice then I would go standard Paradym.  The Paradym line IS and upgrade over the Rogue line imho

[me05501]

Sliding weights aren’t effective enough to turn a slice into a straight shot. Might help keep it on the planet tho. 

[cmatthews77]

On 8/17/2023 at 9:01 PM, pak said:

Could you provide your thoughts and comparison of the Paradym vs. the Epic Speed please? Is it worth the upgrade? 

I’ve been gaming the Epic Speed for last couple of years coming from Flash SZ. It’s a phenomenal driver for me. Better shape than the Epic Max LS and again for me spins in a good window. Loved it so much I got a backup. 
 

I’ve been testing the Paradym 3D. Couple of things… I LOVE the clean look at it at address. Better than the Epic Speed. Sound/feel are fantastic. It ticks a lot of boxes. However it’s super low spin. The 9 degree just wasn’t playable as a gamer. Then had to go to a 10.5 head (play my Speed at 8 degrees). 
 

It wants to go straight. It’s low spin. With the weight back it’s pretty darn forgiving for a 3D model. It’s a fantastic driver. I just need some launch monitor time with a good fitter to find the best setting for me. A 10.5 head or 9 degree at +1 etc etc. 

[CactusGolf]

On 10/1/2023 at 9:19 PM, cmatthews77 said:

I’ve been gaming the Epic Speed for last couple of years coming from Flash SZ. It’s a phenomenal driver for me. Better shape than the Epic Max LS and again for me spins in a good window. Loved it so much I got a backup. 
 

I’ve been testing the Paradym 3D. Couple of things… I LOVE the clean look at it at address. Better than the Epic Speed. Sound/feel are fantastic. It ticks a lot of boxes. However it’s super low spin. The 9 degree just wasn’t playable as a gamer. Then had to go to a 10.5 head (play my Speed at 8 degrees). 
 

It wants to go straight. It’s low spin. With the weight back it’s pretty darn forgiving for a 3D model. It’s a fantastic driver. I just need some launch monitor time with a good fitter to find the best setting for me. A 10.5 head or 9 degree at +1 etc etc. 

I definitely agree with that.  

 

I actually had the Paradym 3W and for the life of me, couldn't hit it.  I'm not sure if it was a weighting issue or simply the head was too shallow.  Was going right under the ball and hitting just about everything near the topline.  I didn't even consider the 3D because I never thought I could play a head like that.

 

Picked up the 3D and it has been night and day.  Head is super long, more forgiving than I originally thought, and has become an asset off the tee instead of a "hit and hope" club for me.

 

Actually had the 3D in my cart for the longest time during their trade-in bonus, but couldn't do it.  The standard Paradym head is low spinning enough for me and I actually play the 10.5* head at 11.5* because fo the low spin and relative low launch compared to the Epic Speed.