Chasing speed; the road to 190mph

[Valtiel]

I’ve been working hard at practicing what I preach in terms of mechanics and I wanted to share a fun progression of incremental speed gains driven solely by lower body sequencing and ground forces to push myself to a goal I’d thought impossible even 6 months ago; 190mph driver ball speed. 
 

I’ve generally been someone that cruises 170-174mph on the course with 175-177mph “reach back” when I go full out. 180mph was something I used to be capable of about 10 years ago, but it was rare and inconsistent. Now with all the extra pandemic weight gone and a renewed focus on practice + light regular fitness I’m trying to hit some new ceilings. 
 

 

This was a good example of my baseline a couple months ago with a 177mph “reach back” mixed in (flat carry inflated a bit by tailwind) 
 

The following month I started pushing a little further with improved lower body sequencing thanks to some content from @Nels55 and digging into my own “post” pattern. 
 

 

Combined with some lower body fitness I raised my floor to the point I was averaging 176mph across about 25 balls with the previous decade old 180mph ceiling FINALLY reached and crossed, basically for the first time ever that I’ve measured. 
 

Needless to say I was stoked as I also knew there was room for more. This is my short heavy driver that isn’t built for max speed, and that peak height suggested I’d get a bit more speed out of less loft, so out came the 9* head turned down with slightly a longer shaft…

 

 

…and I’ve just flat out never been here before. And this was about 150 balls into a session on a cold, damp evening at sea level with a club swing weighting around D7 with a 75g shaft. I’m going to lighten this build and dial it in with the hopes of 190mph this month, something I’d never even considered in 30 years of playing. 
 

Big thanks to @Nels55 for the aforementioned post and to @MonteScheinblum for the general content over the last couple years that helped me get to this point. 

Edited October 17, 2023 by Valtiel

[slytown]

Nice. What's your method? Are you simply speeding up tempo?

[Valtiel]

28 minutes ago, slytown said:

Nice. What's your method? Are you simply speeding up tempo?

I'm sure my tempo is a little quicker, but honestly it's purely getting the hell off my trail side in time based on my tendency to hang back a little too long. It helps me deliver less dynamic loft while creating speed via ground force with the left side more easily. Applying the same thing to my 3i progressively in the same way yielded the same results with my previous baseline being 149-151mph jumping to 154-156 with a peak of 160mph. I also got my 16* 3w up to 174mph this way. 

[getitdaily]

Good stuff. Agree with sly...what did you change from sequence and gf perspective? 

[wagolfer7]

Good stuff @Valtiel.  Congrats on some hard work paying off.  

 

I wrecked my game for awhile chasing speed.  It's not an easy thing to do in my opinion.  

 

Awesome that you are getting positive results.  

[Valtiel]

18 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

Good stuff. Agree with sly...what did you change from sequence and gf perspective? 

See above, also i'd add @virtuoso's contributions regarding the concept of "hip fall" that generally allowed me to get the right visual and feel for recentering while keeping my back to the target + even slightly *increasing* hip turn while doing so. 
 

16 minutes ago, wagolfer7 said:

Good stuff @Valtiel.  Congrats on some hard work paying off.  

 

I wrecked my game for awhile chasing speed.  It's not an easy thing to do in my opinion.  

 

Awesome that you are getting positive results.  

Cheers! Thankfully i'm keeping an eye on that as this is NOT intended to be brought to the course, it's simply a physical raising of the ceiling so that I can live in the upper 170's on the course more comfortably. I have no designs nor desire to get to 185+ on the course outside of a fun scramble scenarios. 

Edited October 17, 2023 by Valtiel

[getitdaily]

19 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

I'm sure my tempo is a little quicker, but honestly it's purely getting the hell off my trail side in time based on my tendency to hang back a little too long. It helps me deliver less dynamic loft while creating speed via ground force with the left side more easily. Applying the same thing to my 3i progressively in the same way yielded the same results with my previous baseline being 149-151mph jumping to 154-156 with a peak of 160mph. I also got my 16* 3w up to 174mph this way. 

Have you been on pressure plates or just trial and error on your own? 

[Valtiel]

Just now, getitdaily said:

Have you been on pressure plates or just trial and error on your own? 

Just trial and error for now, but i'd love to do some pressure plate work. 

[wagolfer7]

2 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

Thankfully i'm keeping an eye on that as this is NOT intended to be brought to the course, it's simply a physical raising of the ceiling that I can live in the upper 170's on the course more comfortably. I have no designs nor desire to get to 185+ on the course outside of a fun scramble scenarios. 

 

Well I guess, I should say trying to increase my GFR was what wrecked my game for awhile.  Like a lot of things in golf, understanding and applying are 2 different beasts.  I'm hitting the ball better than ever, but man was it a crooked road to improvement.  

 

I'm envious you can separate the 2 and just go after it more when you want to.  I'm hoping I can get my speeds up a bit in the future, but for now am just happy that my overall game has improved again.    

 

 

[Righty to Lefty]

No no no...we need video or you just are putting up someone else's numbers! Throw yourself to the wolves Valtiel !!

[getitdaily]

7 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

Just trial and error for now, but i'd love to do some pressure plate work. 

Good stuff. I'm trying to get to amg and get on them. Life keeps getting in the way. Planned on this coming Saturday morning until my wife texted me yesterday that our 9yr old had a baseball game added at 10am. 

 

But that earlier lead side stuff has been a true game changer for me since I started trialing it. 

[mizunotpz]

Wow! Thats fast! Impressed by the increased speed! Keep us updated on your progress! It got me thinking since Ive lately also felt like I hang back a touch and not recenter fast enough. Ive been doing a real slow backswing and transition to buy me some time, but that doesnt add speed, just more centered strikes which is good for speed of course but still not ideal. I would be happy with 150 ballspeed with driver though. Im 54 so maybe naive to wish for much more lol

Edited October 17, 2023 by mizunotpz
Added

[Valtiel]

5 minutes ago, wagolfer7 said:

I'm envious you can separate the 2 and just go after it more when you want to. 

That's been the exciting part as I straight up *couldn't* until more recently. I always use my 5i as a benchmark when checking ball speed numbers and for the longest time I was stuck in this rut where my "normal" swing produced a number that I could nearly mimic with my feet practically together. I'd hit a full 135mph that carries around 200y, something a little slow for me given that I was getting my driver up to 174mph at the time, and then put my feet together and with just arms and upper body hit 132mph with more consistent contact and trajectory. So I knew I was bleeding speed via inefficient lower body sequencing, I just couldn't quite get my head around the right feel. The posts from virtuoso and Nels55 together got my wheels turning in the right way and now i'm hitting that same 135mph when i'm absolutely gassed and sore at the end of a 250 ball session, and i'm peaking at 142-144mph with what feels like the same amount of effort as the previous 135 ceiling. 

I guess that's why I feel comfortable pushing this really hard, because it's all increased speed throughout the bag via improved mechanics, not just flailing at the driver. I'm not swinging any longer, over-hinging, or any of the long drive-esque tactics for increasing speed, i'm just sequencing better. 
 

2 minutes ago, Righty to Lefty said:

No no no...we need video or you just are putting up someone else's numbers! Throw yourself to the wolves Valtiel !!

I will definitely start filming if I feel like i'm on pace to hit 190mph next time. For now I need to rest my right hamstring, lol. 

[wagolfer7]

1 minute ago, Valtiel said:

That's been the exciting part as I straight up *couldn't* until more recently. I always use my 5i as a benchmark when checking ball speed numbers and for the longest time I was stuck in this rut where my "normal" swing produced a number that I could nearly mimic with my feet practically together. I'd hit a full 135mph that carries around 200y, something a little slow for me given that I was getting my driver up to 174mph at the time, and then put my feet together and with just arms and upper body hit 132mph with more consistent contact and trajectory. So I knew I was bleeding speed via inefficient lower body sequencing, I just couldn't quite get my head around the right feel. The posts from virtuoso and Nels55 together got my wheels turning in the right way and now i'm hitting that same 135mph when i'm absolutely gassed and sore at the end of a 250 ball session, and i'm peaking at 142-144mph with what feels like the same amount of effort as the previous 135 ceiling. 

I guess that's why I feel comfortable pushing this really hard, because it's all increased speed throughout the bag via improved mechanics, not just flailing at the driver. I'm not swinging any longer, over-hinging, or any of the long drive-esque tactics for increasing speed, i'm just sequencing better. 
 

 

I think that's a common problem for most amateurs, that taking a 3/4 swing with feet together, produces 95% distance of full swing with attempting to use lower body.  

 

Really cool information there.  I feel like I'm doing a lot of things indirectly by just trying improve the swing overall.  I had to step back from directly trying to just generate more pressure in the ground.  In the last month I've had some drives and iron shots that are carrying further than normal and I could feel that is was different.  Winter is coming and I'll be back on a launch monitor and will be curious to see if I can re-create the feeling I had.  Excited for you where you are though - seems like your knocking on the door of some good golf.      

[PracticeSwinger]

36 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

See above, also i'd add @virtuoso's contributions regarding the concept of "hip fall" that generally allowed me to get the right visual and feel for recentering while keeping my back to the target + even slightly *increasing* hip turn while doing so. 

For the sake of discussion, would you say that the idea/feel of your lead hip ‘sinking into’ its post (bracing spot / tilted and continued wind up) while not letting your upper body / shoulders beginning their forward (downswing) rotation was what has allowed you to generate more GRF (even though you haven’t measured it on plates) that triggered CHS ?

[bwiley]

Out of curiosity, which speed programs/aids have you found to be most helpful for you? Awesome results! 

[bcjim]

52 minutes ago, wagolfer7 said:

 

I think that's a common problem for most amateurs, that taking a 3/4 swing with feet together, produces 95% distance of full swing with attempting to use lower body.  

 

 

That's me. Please help!  🤣

[Valtiel]

1 hour ago, Varry_Hardon said:

For the sake of discussion, would you say that the idea/feel of your lead hip ‘sinking into’ its post (bracing spot / tilted and continued wind up) while not letting your upper body / shoulders beginning their forward (downswing) rotation was what has allowed you to generate more GRF (even though you haven’t measured it on plates) that triggered CHS ?

100%, and I was working on this post as your reply came through which I feel like is trying to describe exactly that. 
 

41 minutes ago, bwiley said:

Out of curiosity, which speed programs/aids have you found to be most helpful for you? Awesome results! 

No programs or aids, just a focus on lower body sequencing per these posts/resources:

Virtuoso's comment and video

Monte's Shift Tip

This post and the previous exchange in that thread with Nels55.
 

23 minutes ago, bcjim said:

That's me. Please help!  🤣

I made a post here attempting to cover the takeaways from the links above as someone previously struggling with the idea.   

[PracticeSwinger]

25 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

100%, and I was working on this post as your reply came through which I feel like is trying to describe exactly that. 

Pure gold, every word and visual in that post. It describes exactly what I’m trying to ingrain in sequence. Been having a lot of success lately (nowhere near 190 though haha) with just that ‘sinking lead hip into its spot, tilted, extra wind up’ which triggers the GRF (your boom visual).
 

For others that might be tempted to go that route (and they should!) just a heads up from my own experience in ‘overdoing it’ do ingrain that feel - meaning that I would have my whole upper body ‘diving in’ toward the target wanting to pressure the ground hard, too much upper lateral that would inevitably lead to rotation stalling and flip save… just to have that in mind

[Jayjay_theweim_guy]

3 hours ago, Valtiel said:

but honestly it's purely getting the hell off my trail side in time based on my tendency to hang back a little too long

You mentioned "posts", in I believe, the Mike Adams sense.  Which post are you, and how did you find out?

 

(If those are covered in the links you've recently posted, apologies.)

 

Congratulations!  That's a lot of work!

[Golf_Goof]

Nice gains and excellent thread. Inspiring even. 

[CSagan]

I predict you’ll get it within a couple weeks. Best of luck. 

[Brooks_Cupcake]

5 hours ago, Valtiel said:

I’ve been working hard at practicing what I preach in terms of mechanics and I wanted to share a fun progression of incremental speed gains driven solely by lower body sequencing and ground forces to push myself to a goal I’d thought impossible even 6 months ago; 190mph driver ball speed. 
 

I’ve generally been someone that cruises 170-174mph on the course with 175-177mph “reach back” when I go full out. 180mph was something I used to be capable of about 10 years ago, but it was rare and inconsistent. Now with all the extra pandemic weight gone and a renewed focus on practice + light regular fitness I’m trying to hit some new ceilings. 
 

 

This was a good example of my baseline a couple months ago with a 177mph “reach back” mixed in (flat carry inflated a bit by tailwind) 
 

The following month I started pushing a little further with improved lower body sequencing thanks to some content from @Nels55 and digging into my own “post” pattern. 
 

 

Combined with some lower body fitness I raised my floor to the point I was averaging 176mph across about 25 balls with the previous decade old 180mph ceiling FINALLY reached and crossed, basically for the first time ever that I’ve measured. 
 

Needless to say I was stoked as I also knew there was room for more. This is my short heavy driver that isn’t built for max speed, and that peak height suggested I’d get a bit more speed out of less loft, so out came the 9* head turned down with slightly a longer shaft…

 

 

…and I’ve just flat out never been here before. And this was about 150 balls into a session on a cold, damp evening at sea level with a club swing weighting around D7 with a 75g shaft. I’m going to lighten this build and dial it in with the hopes of 190mph this month, something I’d never even considered in 30 years of playing. 
 

Big thanks to @Nels55 for the aforementioned post and to @MonteScheinblum for the general content over the last couple years that helped me get to this point. 

What post did Nels make that you’re referring to? What thread?

[slytown]

Yea, the Milo concept of heart fall is good too. I have no problem getting to my lead side, but I think pressure is a better concept for lateral movement than hip movement or shifting your weight.

[GolfTurkey]

Nice work! I bet that this has path and low benefits too (not that I imagine you struggled with those things, but we take any little wins we can in this dang game!)

 

I've made this stuff a priority for myself too. Thanks to a glacial recovery from knee surgery, all I can is work on is slow motion flighted wedges and chipping. At that speed, I can really sense how much pressure I was shifting right and how slow it was getting back left, hence the moon ball wedges. I'm hoping that work will bleed into the longer stuff. 

[getitdaily]

Got any before and after dtl and face on videos? Would love to see the differences.

[Nels55]

@Valtiel glad you found the video I referenced useful even though you latched onto a different part of it then I was thinking when I posted it!  LOL, I was just guessing anyway.

 

You have impressive speed, if I hit 150 mph ball speed I am super happy!

 

I don't know if you have seen these three speed gain videos with Fredrik and Hannah working with Mike Adams and Terry Rowles so I will post them here.  I find these interesting to see the different approach that is used for Hannah's side on trail hand grip and Fred's under trail hand with strong lead hand.  Both work on getting more verticals which you might find interesting.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 18, 2023 by Nels55
typo

[getitdaily]

1 hour ago, Nels55 said:

@Valtiel glad you found the video I referenced useful even though you latched onto a different part of it then I was thinking when I posted it!  LOL, I was just guessing anyway.

 

You have impressive speed, if I hit 150 mph ball speed I am super happy!

 

I don't know if you have seen these three speed gain videos with Fredrik and Hannah working with Mike Adams and Terry Rowles so I will post them here.  I find these interesting to see the different approach that is used for Hannah's side on trail hand grip and Fred's under trail hand with strong lead hand.  Both work on getting more verticals which you might find interesting.

 

 

 

 

And that's why I need to get to amg soon. My swing is a good bit like the Henrik guy. But I can't figure out how to push up more without also coming out of side bend or firing my shoulders open too soon.

 

I'm 108-110 and I bet I've got 115 in me.

[CSagan]

1 hour ago, getitdaily said:

And that's why I need to get to amg soon. My swing is a good bit like the Henrik guy. But I can't figure out how to push up more without also coming out of side bend or firing my shoulders open too soon.

 

I'm 108-110 and I bet I've got 115 in me.

You can increase your vertical by pushing more weight down into it. So to push up more you gotta weight into it more.  Easy to see when you can get on some force plates and look at vertical force. 

[virtuoso]

21 hours ago, Valtiel said:

100%, and I was working on this post as your reply came through which I feel like is trying to describe exactly that. 
 

No programs or aids, just a focus on lower body sequencing per these posts/resources:

Virtuoso's comment and video

Monte's Shift Tip

This post and the previous exchange in that thread with Nels55.
 

I made a post here attempting to cover the takeaways from the links above as someone previously struggling with the idea.   

Happy to make any contribution that keeps you from being a spin and bender. Congrats on your progress.