Chasing speed; the road to 190mph

[Valtiel]

18 hours ago, GolfTurkey said:

I've made this stuff a priority for myself too. Thanks to a glacial recovery from knee surgery, all I can is work on is slow motion flighted wedges and chipping. At that speed, I can really sense how much pressure I was shifting right and how slow it was getting back left, hence the moon ball wedges. I'm hoping that work will bleed into the longer stuff. 

Which knee is recovering? Sounds like the trail knee by your comments which makes sense that it would now be really telling you how much pressure you're putting on it. That is IMO how Koepka was able to play through those big knee injuries because the huge one was the trail knee in 2021 I think it was, and while it was his lead knee prior to that it sounded like it had recovered by the time he borked the trail one, so he was able to favor his front side more which seems like it was a more comfortable pattern for him. Best of luck with the recovery though, knee problems are a PITA. 
 

Quote

Nice work! I bet that this has path and low benefits too (not that I imagine you struggled with those things, but we take any little wins we can in this dang game!)

Cheers!

I wanted to separate this comment because there are a number of cool things that came about from these changes. A user commented on my previous swing thread about arms/shoulders going a little early which is something i've long managed. It threw my path out a little bit but I leveraged that as an "anti-left" sort of thing since it was pretty consistent. As you can imagine though draws felt pretty unnatural and ended up being something that I had to manufacture by aiming further right and hitting a sort of pull draw. Good for getting out of trouble but bad for consistency since that sort of move creates a really hot flighted miss that can get going too left in a hurry. ALL of that flipped once this proper pivot move started to get ingrained (still working on that obviously) and the resisting of the shoulder turn in transition while loading into my front side very organically shifted my path from slightly outside to slightly inside and suddenly a stock draw that I previously had to feel manipulations to create started to feel like the "natural" pattern to the point that i'm actually having to relearn how to hit a cut properly, hah.

The fun thing is though that with a proper pivot you can preset certain setup elements to create that influence, and for me i'm finding success in that being my lead foot position. The more I square up my left foot, the easier it is to really commit to the "new" pattern and naturally get inside to hit the strong draw. This a pattern Adam Scott uses I think. The more I flare the lead foot then the more neutral my path seems to be, but I do have to consciously commit to the "new" pattern more because of how that flare restricts certain elements of rotation in the backswing. It's been really eye opening though as someone that has long managed a fairly consistent pattern born from a flaw and I feel like the various exaggerated drills that some pros do make more sense to me now. 

[Valtiel]

12 hours ago, getitdaily said:

Got any before and after dtl and face on videos? Would love to see the differences.

In hindsight I regret capturing some as these speed gains crept up on me while I was just working on mechanics. I can probably still recreate the "old" move though so i'll try to get some examples of that at some point as I feel like it could be a useful for folks struggling with the same things. 
 

6 hours ago, Nels55 said:

@Valtiel glad you found the video I referenced useful even though you latched onto a different part of it then I was thinking when I posted it!  LOL, I was just guessing anyway.

 

You have impressive speed, if I hit 150 mph ball speed I am super happy!

 

I don't know if you have seen these three speed gain videos with Fredrik and Hannah working with Mike Adams and Terry Rowles so I will post them here.  I find these interesting to see the different approach that is used for Hannah's side on trail hand grip and Fred's under trail hand with strong lead hand.  Both work on getting more verticals which you might find interesting.

 

Yeah that was a little funny to me, lol. It is interesting though how once the concept starts working how many different patterns can come from it. Basically the Rinker -> Niemann spectrum with both extremes having a LOT of caveats for what is needed to make them work, but a proper sequenced pivot being at the core of both and everything in between. 
 

1 hour ago, virtuoso said:

Happy to make any contribution that keeps you from being a spin and bender. Congrats on your progress.

Cheers! I assume you're referring to the maximum hip clearance + maximum side bend type of pattern? Yeah no risk of that with me I don't think, hah. 

Edited October 18, 2023 by Valtiel

[Valtiel]

23 hours ago, Jayjay_theweim_guy said:

You mentioned "posts", in I believe, the Mike Adams sense.  Which post are you, and how did you find out?

 

(If those are covered in the links you've recently posted, apologies.)

 

Congratulations!  That's a lot of work!

Sorry I missed this one, thanks! Based on that concept it was the idea that I am very "center" post while being stuck in a "rear" post pattern. Exaggerating what felt like a very "front" post kind of move was what got me from rear -> center in this case. A lot of reprogramming movement patterns as is often discussed around here. Appreciate the props!

[virtuoso]

36 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

Cheers! I assume you're referring to the maximum hip clearance + maximum side bend type of pattern? Yeah no risk of that with me I don't think, hah. 

That’s the one, but I should call it spin, bend and lock because I’m forgetting the hyper extension of the left knee. 

[GolfTurkey]

4 hours ago, Valtiel said:

Which knee is recovering? Sounds like the trail knee by your comments which makes sense that it would now be really telling you how much pressure you're putting on it. That is IMO how Koepka was able to play through those big knee injuries because the huge one was the trail knee in 2021 I think it was, and while it was his lead knee prior to that it sounded like it had recovered by the time he borked the trail one, so he was able to favor his front side more which seems like it was a more comfortable pattern for him. Best of luck with the recovery though, knee problems are a PITA.

 

 

Thanks, it's actually the lead knee in recovery (had minor surgery on the trail knee about 8 years ago and it's fine).

 

Combined with lead hip surgery almost 3 years ago, my left quad and hamstring have lost a lost of muscle mass / strength. I've had to take it slow because the hip flares up whenever I push it too hard.

 

Now my lead leg is super sensitive to pressure, when I load it I get the same kind of wobbly, shaky feeling like when doing a gym rep to failure.

 

I think driver can work with a bit of a hang-back move even though it leaves yards on the table, and my leg is strong enough to pressure forward early when hitting flighted wedges. My goal for the next year is to turn wedges into a strength from a weakness (I am soooo sick of the ballooned wedge into the wind submerging into a fried egg in the front bunker) and to rehab the leg so I can get pressure forward early progressively through the bag as it strengthens.

[PracticeSwinger]

11 hours ago, Valtiel said:

The fun thing is though that with a proper pivot you can preset certain setup elements to create that influence, and for me i'm finding success in that being my lead foot position. The more I square up my left foot, the easier it is to really commit to the "new" pattern and naturally get inside to hit the strong draw. This a pattern Adam Scott uses I think. The more I flare the lead foot then the more neutral my path seems to be, but I do have to consciously commit to the "new" pattern more because of how that flare restricts certain elements of rotation in the backswing. It's been really eye opening though as someone that has long managed a fairly consistent pattern born from a flaw and I feel like the various exaggerated drills that some pros do make more sense to me now. 

I've found that the lead foot flare plays a big role also, for me, in a counterintuitive way my pivot is more body driven when it's squarish - feels like it allows a better 'lead hip sinking' action into it's post, to brace and pivot through from an inside-out path, better internal lead hip rotation with it... when it's flared, contrary to the belief that it would help me pivot through, I find that it restricts my backswing hands depth, and promotes that shoulders spin out from the top that we don't want, as if I had to be 'square' to my lead foot angle at impact and thus, trail hip collapsing in, shoulders open... simple preset that triggers a lot

[joostin]

Just sending props to @Valtiel, whose contributions to WRX from swing analysis to the tech side of equipment and build threads have always been top tier.  It's always inspiring to see those that can delve out the knowledge show their chops in practice (thinking along the lines of Monte, Padraig, Marty Jertson..).  Looking forward to seeing you frequent 190 mph, and being inspired myself to reach higher speeds (and maybe better golf lol).  Lets go! 🚀

[Valtiel]

Well I was all set to go for it yesterday and my dumb *** took the drowsy version of my allergy medication by mistake and I felt like an absolute zombie out there, lol. Zero adrenaline, but the good news was decent level of consistency and good dispersion:

 

 

Still happy with that all things considered. This was my TSi3 playing 45.5” with a Tensei AV White 65TX 2.0 which is a beast of a shaft, and last time I was using my 9* SIM turned down, probably going back to that for my next attempt with a lighter shaft. Onwards!

[Valtiel]

Non-drowsy allergy meds made all the difference, hah. Now to be needlessly dramatic with the build up!

 

3i ball speeds were hot during warmup, a good sign. Peaked at 161. 

 

 

The 3w was following suit, peaked at 177. 

 

 

Driver started at 180 right from the jump, then:

 

 

New peak of 187 and I knew the speed was there, I *just* needed the perfect strike…

 

 

About 40 balls later after a dip and some strong language to myself, I got the strike. 190 officially in the books with a baby draw. No one on the range noticed or cared 😂

 

I have one more speed trick left that I want to use with the goal of just getting anywhere above 190 now. Feels damn good though, unfortunately no video though @getitdaily as it literally didn’t even occur to me until I was leaving the range 😅. Next time with 190+. 👍

 

Edited October 25, 2023 by Valtiel

[Sean124]

[Valtiel]

2 hours ago, Sean124 said:

The poor Stata Super Range balls I think are flattening above 180bs because while the speeds have always felt accurate, actual carry distances seem to compress noticeably. The end of the range is also about 270y-ish with a very tall net so maybe that's messing with the launch monitor as well. Going to mix in a premium ball at some point to check this.  

[Sean124]

3 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

The poor Stata Super Range balls I think are flattening above 180bs because while the speeds have always felt accurate, actual carry distances seem to compress noticeably. The end of the range is also about 270y-ish with a very tall net so maybe that's messing with the launch monitor as well. Going to mix in a premium ball at some point to check this.  

Does that setup measure spin? 

[Valtiel]

17 minutes ago, Sean124 said:

Does that setup measure spin? 

It has the ability to with marked balls I believe but it's disabled. The eye test does not suggest there is any spin problem, and this is also cold and at sea level as well which will hurt. 

[Sean124]

2 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

It has the ability to with marked balls I believe but it's disabled. The eye test does not suggest there is any spin problem, and this is also cold and at sea level as well which will hurt. 

While it would be interesting to see what it says with some scuffed up premium balls, I’d probably just ignore the total distance and focus on ball speed. 
 

Nice work, btw. 190 is fast. I think the most I’ve measured on my SkyTrak for a ball that went straight-ish was 186. I’ll be working to get the speed back up soon as I’m currently a week into recovering from knee surgery. 

[Shilgy]

1 hour ago, Valtiel said:

It has the ability to with marked balls I believe but it's disabled. The eye test does not suggest there is any spin problem, and this is also cold and at sea level as well which will hurt. 

Nicely done! Bit of jealousy in there as well. 🙊

 

All things considering….should the launch be lower?  Seems high for that impressive speed.

[Valtiel]

1 hour ago, Sean124 said:

While it would be interesting to see what it says with some scuffed up premium balls, I’d probably just ignore the total distance and focus on ball speed. 
 

Nice work, btw. 190 is fast. I think the most I’ve measured on my SkyTrak for a ball that went straight-ish was 186. I’ll be working to get the speed back up soon as I’m currently a week into recovering from knee surgery. 

Cheers! And best of luck on the recovery. 💪
 

16 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Nicely done! Bit of jealousy in there as well. 🙊

 

All things considering….should the launch be lower?  Seems high for that impressive speed.

Thanks! That was the one thing I still want to try as the initial efforts that started the thread were with a 9* SIM head turned down to 7*, but this recent effort was my TSi3 9* turned down to 8.25* (C1). I want to try the SIM again as I just need the right weights for it that I need to order. 

[Hclinegolf1]

Fun read here, thanks for sharing!

[Valtiel]

4 hours ago, Hclinegolf1 said:

Fun read here, thanks for sharing!

Cheers! I've got my (now illegal) driver built up; SIM 7* @46.25" at the proper weight. We'll see what the next session brings. 💪 

[clevited]

@Valtiel  Awesome stuff!  I absolutely love seeing people get faster.  Keep up the good work.  You might as well push for 200 now!

[indianagolf2]

Ben Jackson golf rhose island...he has an attorney age 66 119mph driver...hes worked with some tour guys 

[Laaandry]

This is such a good read.

 

I started speed training this winter, mostly following Dr. Kwon weight shifts principles--your visuals have helped tie some things together.

 

I messed around with the "hip fall" a bit and managed to hit 105 with a 7 iron (air swing) which I hope I can recreate. Any other specific drills that you've tried? Swing different weight things, etc.

[Valtiel]

On 11/10/2023 at 5:08 AM, clevited said:

@Valtiel  Awesome stuff!  I absolutely love seeing people get faster.  Keep up the good work.  You might as well push for 200 now!

Unfortunately I think that is out of reach without a conscious effort on some serious fitness, hah. My session last night peaked at 182mph and I sit on way too much a** for work to push that ceiling any higher, hah. Appreciate the kind words though. 💪
 

23 hours ago, Laaandry said:

This is such a good read.

 

I started speed training this winter, mostly following Dr. Kwon weight shifts principles--your visuals have helped tie some things together.

 

I messed around with the "hip fall" a bit and managed to hit 105 with a 7 iron (air swing) which I hope I can recreate. Any other specific drills that you've tried? Swing different weight things, etc.

Thats a serious 7, hah! I've messed around with weighted and unweighted things a bit, but honestly focusing on the proper sequencing is easily the most beneficial but also the most difficult to ingrain so i've been staying on that. The feels when I know i'm doing it properly are the sense of my trail side being unweighted by the time i'm transitioning and that my back stays to the target longer during that move. My main tendency being the opposite; to linger on the trail side a little too long and to get the shoulders going a little too early. 

Here is a good swing (and one take!) from last night (cc @getitdaily). While nothing earth shattering speed wise (181mph) it was still controlled and very well struck with pretty optimum launch conditions and shape (tiny pull fade). Even though I only peaked at 182mph I was extremely happy with the fact I was consistently middling a 46.5" driver which would have been unheard of for me a year ago. 

  Edited November 11, 2023 by Valtiel

[CSagan]

Nice swing sir. Move up and down and back up again nicely...thats how you get it done!

[Laaandry]

26 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

Here is a good swing (and one take!) from last night (cc @getitdaily). While nothing earth shattering speed wise (181mph) it was still controlled and very well struck with pretty optimum launch conditions and shape (tiny pull fade). Even though I only peaked at 182mph I was extremely happy with the fact I was consistently middling a 46.5" driver which would have been unheard of for me a year ago.  FullSizeRender.MOV 5.89 MB ·0 downloads

 

Wow that's a smooth 180--great swing. Definitely something to aspire to, cheers!

[getitdaily]

49 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

Unfortunately I think that is out of reach without a conscious effort on some serious fitness, hah. My session last night peaked at 182mph and I sit on way too much a** for work to push that ceiling any higher, hah. Appreciate the kind words though. 💪
 

Thats a serious 7, hah! I've messed around with weighted and unweighted things a bit, but honestly focusing on the proper sequencing is easily the most beneficial but also the most difficult to ingrain so i've been staying on that. The feels when I know i'm doing it properly are the sense of my trail side being unweighted by the time i'm transitioning and that my back stays to the target longer during that move. My main tendency being the opposite; to linger on the trail side a little too long and to get the shoulders going a little too early. 

Here is a good swing (and one take!) from last night (cc @getitdaily). While nothing earth shattering speed wise (181mph) it was still controlled and very well struck with pretty optimum launch conditions and shape (tiny pull fade). Even though I only peaked at 182mph I was extremely happy with the fact I was consistently middling a 46.5" driver which would have been unheard of for me a year ago. 

FullSizeRender.MOV 5.89 MB · 1 download  

Nicely done.

 

I gotta rep that trail knee regain of flexion. Haven't spent much time on that but every time I do I hit it better. I visit AMG Tues to get on pressure plates. May be something they see too.

Edited November 12, 2023 by getitdaily

[indianagolf2]

20 hours ago, getitdaily said:

Nicely done.

 

I gotta rep that trail knee regain of flexion. Haven't spent much time on that but every time I do I hit it better. I visit AMG Tues to get on pressure plates. May be something they see too.

What does amg charge for the pressure plates instruction 

Edited November 12, 2023 by indianagolf2

[getitdaily]

6 minutes ago, indianagolf2 said:

What does amg charge for the pressure plates instruction 

That I saw, there is no price for various technology...just lesson prices. Mike and Sean are $500/hr. Nick Duffy is $200. I went with nick. Can't see the value in $500. 

[Golf_Goof]

On 11/11/2023 at 6:33 PM, Valtiel said:

Unfortunately I think that is out of reach without a conscious effort on some serious fitness, hah. My session last night peaked at 182mph and I sit on way too much a** for work to push that ceiling any higher, hah. Appreciate the kind words though. 💪
 

Thats a serious 7, hah! I've messed around with weighted and unweighted things a bit, but honestly focusing on the proper sequencing is easily the most beneficial but also the most difficult to ingrain so i've been staying on that. The feels when I know i'm doing it properly are the sense of my trail side being unweighted by the time i'm transitioning and that my back stays to the target longer during that move. My main tendency being the opposite; to linger on the trail side a little too long and to get the shoulders going a little too early. 

Here is a good swing (and one take!) from last night (cc @getitdaily). While nothing earth shattering speed wise (181mph) it was still controlled and very well struck with pretty optimum launch conditions and shape (tiny pull fade). Even though I only peaked at 182mph I was extremely happy with the fact I was consistently middling a 46.5" driver which would have been unheard of for me a year ago. 

Nice rip. A bit of Cink at the finish.

[ALIF]

Great move dude!!!

[indianagolf2]

13 hours ago, indianagolf2 said:

Shat does amg charge for the pressure plates instruction 

 

13 hours ago, getitdaily said:

That I saw, there is no price for various technology...just lesson prices. Mike and Sean are $500/hr. Nick Duffy is $200. I went with nick. Can't see the value in $500. 

Mike was 200 per hour a few yrs back...yeah that is crazy 500.