Wrist hinge on backswing and release after impact

[byoshio82]

Do you intentionally hinge your wrists on the backswing? Or let it happen naturally. Have had a couple lessons in the past where the Pro wanted me to set the wrists intentionally and go from there couldn't ever get it to stick.

 

Second one is do you intentionally release the hands after impact or is that also just a natural move for you. 

 

Years of not wanting the ball to go left has led to a hold off and I am curious if this is one of the causes of incosistent ball striking.

 

My goal since I got sober has been to get a consisten wear mark in a set of clubs. However that would require me to not be a Golf WRX junkie and love tinkering and new shinny things!LOL! 

[chigolfer1]

4 hours ago, byoshio82 said:

Do you intentionally hinge your wrists on the backswing? Or let it happen naturally. Have had a couple lessons in the past where the Pro wanted me to set the wrists intentionally and go from there couldn't ever get it to stick.

 

Second one is do you intentionally release the hands after impact or is that also just a natural move for you. 

 

Years of not wanting the ball to go left has led to a hold off and I am curious if this is one of the causes of incosistent ball striking.

 

My goal since I got sober has been to get a consisten wear mark in a set of clubs. However that would require me to not be a Golf WRX junkie and love tinkering and new shinny things!LOL! 

 

well in the tight pants/EE thread, setting the wrists earlier is exactly what Monte is trying to get him to do since it's all hips at first.  Maybe that's what your instructor was trying.

 

 

Edited December 6, 2023 by chigolfer1

[Anthony Stevens]

2 minutes ago, chigolfer1 said:

 

well in the tight pants/EE thread, not setting the wrists is exactly what Monte is trying to get him to do

 

Typo? In that other thread, Monte is saying he should set his wrists earlier, and the drill he linked has an early wrist set as step 1 of 3.

[RagnarD]

Prosendr might be an interesting tool for you. Offers something like "training wheels" for wrist motion on backswing, but leaves it to you to release.

I had a lesson this summer where the pro didn't like my hold-off swing, and he basically dared me to release as early as I could. I thought I was going to chunk everything but somehow I actually made fine contact. It did cause me to have left misses initially rather than right misses, and his feel for getting rid of that was for me to have the back of my left hand hit a target out-above-and left of my left shoulder. In other words, to focus on finishing with my hands up and left. Hard to describe in text, but was shocked at how much I could feel like increasing "release" without it hurting my swing. All because of seeing the many online videos promoting "lag".  

Of course my shots still aren't straight enough! But my handicap dropped after increasing release.

[MonteScheinblum]

Every movement in a golf swing is the same.  People who do it right say it should happen naturally, but if you don’t do it, you hav etc do it on purpose until you do it right.

 

I always bring up my knee surgery in these situations.  What is more automatic than walking?  However. Most of us walk with improper mechanics and posture, so we need to do better movements on purpose until they become natural.  
 

I walked for 40 years with forward bend at the waist, feet flared out, shoulders rolled in and  eyes down at the ground.  Guess how many tables I bumped into and how many times I tripped on the range rope  when my posture was better and my eyes straight ahead?

 

 

[jonsnow]

37 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Every movement in a golf swing is the same.  People who do it right say it should happen naturally, but if you don’t do it, you hav etc do it on purpose until you do it right.

 

I always bring up my knee surgery in these situations.  What is more automatic than walking?  However. Most of us walk with improper mechanics and posture, so we need to do better movements on purpose until they become natural.  
 

I walked for 40 years with forward bend at the waist, feet flared out, shoulders rolled in and  eyes down at the ground.  Guess how many tables I bumped into and how many times I tripped on the range rope  when my posture was better and my eyes straight ahead?

 

 

How did you correct this? I started walking with my head down when I aged into progressive lenses & my head eventually pulled my body forward at the waist & shoulders in. It's gotten markedly worse since my mini strokes earlier this year. Habits are hard to change...

[MonteScheinblum]

1 hour ago, jonsnow said:

How did you correct this? I started walking with my head down when I aged into progressive lenses & my head eventually pulled my body forward at the waist & shoulders in. It's gotten markedly worse since my mini strokes earlier this year. Habits are hard to change...

Same way people hav ego change their swings.  Make conscious effort until you get there and put no time frame on it.  Adding a time frame will kill your ability to change.

[iacas]

2 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Every movement in a golf swing is the same.  People who do it right say it should happen naturally, but if you don’t do it, you hav etc do it on purpose until you do it right.

 

I was going to say a similar thing.

 

Some people have to feel it more. Some people have to feel it less. Some people do it fine and don't have to feel anything different.

[dashanks]

Is "Pro" a handicap?

[Valtiel]

2 hours ago, byoshio82 said:

Do you intentionally hinge your wrists on the backswing? Or let it happen naturally. Have had a couple lessons in the past where the Pro wanted me to set the wrists intentionally and go from there couldn't ever get it to stick.

 

 

2 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Every movement in a golf swing is the same.  People who do it right say it should happen naturally, but if you don’t do it, you hav etc do it on purpose until you do it right.

 

10 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

I was going to say a similar thing.

 

Some people have to feel it more. Some people have to feel it less. Some people do it fine and don't have to feel anything different.

Yup. I had to work for awhile at intentionally hinging sooner because I wasn't hinging properly at all previously, and that was a conscious effort until I got used to it.

@byoshio82 you need to know where you stand in terms of whether you're doing it within the realm of what would be considered "correct". If a pro previously had you setting more "intentionally" then there is a good chance you either weren't setting them correctly, setting them too late, or not properly setting them at all. If you don't know which then the Pro didn't do his job completely, whereas if it was explained why and you didn't retain it + didn't get it to stick then that is more on you. 

[chigolfer1]

4 hours ago, Anthony Stevens said:

 

Typo? In that other thread, Monte is saying he should set his wrists earlier, and the drill he linked has an early wrist set as step 1 of 3.

 

Sorry, that came out wrong.  I was trying to say Monte identified him not setting the wrists earlier was an issue.  I"m going to edit it.

 

 

 

Edited December 6, 2023 by chigolfer1

[byoshio82]

On 12/6/2023 at 11:56 AM, RagnarD said:

Prosendr might be an interesting tool for you. Offers something like "training wheels" for wrist motion on backswing, but leaves it to you to release.

I had a lesson this summer where the pro didn't like my hold-off swing, and he basically dared me to release as early as I could. I thought I was going to chunk everything but somehow I actually made fine contact. It did cause me to have left misses initially rather than right misses, and his feel for getting rid of that was for me to have the back of my left hand hit a target out-above-and left of my left shoulder. In other words, to focus on finishing with my hands up and left. Hard to describe in text, but was shocked at how much I could feel like increasing "release" without it hurting my swing. All because of seeing the many online videos promoting "lag".  

Of course my shots still aren't straight enough! But my handicap dropped after increasing release.

This is great help thank you!

[byoshio82]

21 hours ago, dashanks said:

Is "Pro" a handicap?

Teaching pro. I hover between a 2-5 depending on how much I’m playing but probably the worst ball striking single digit you’ll ever meet. My putting saves my Word not allowed all the time thank god. 

[byoshio82]

21 hours ago, Valtiel said:

 

 

Yup. I had to work for awhile at intentionally hinging sooner because I wasn't hinging properly at all previously, and that was a conscious effort until I got used to it.

@byoshio82 you need to know where you stand in terms of whether you're doing it within the realm of what would be considered "correct". If a pro previously had you setting more "intentionally" then there is a good chance you either weren't setting them correctly, setting them too late, or not properly setting them at all. If you don't know which then the Pro didn't do his job completely, whereas if it was explained why and you didn't retain it + didn't get it to stick then that is more on you. 

Overthinking things always get me in trouble!lol! OCD is a mofo! The less thinking I do the better on the course but now that I moved to MN I really do have an offseason to work on this kind of stuff so hopefully I can get it to the point where it’s naturally and produce results on the course. Appreciate the feedback. 

[Kuuuch]

i would highly recommend the below drill. Out of the many lessons I've had over the years, setting my wrists correctly was probably my least favorite thing to work on. This drill by Dan C made it exponentially easier. 

 

https://www.golfwrx.com/70325/getting-in-sync/

[dashanks]

17 hours ago, byoshio82 said:

Teaching pro. I hover between a 2-5 depending on how much I’m playing but probably the worst ball striking single digit you’ll ever meet. My putting saves my Word not allowed all the time thank god. 

Gotcha.   Well, anyway, my feeling is that the more body parts you are trying to consciously control during the swing, the less your chances of success.    I think that focusing on the hinging and release of the wrists would be particularly risky.  Maybe okay on the backswing, but the very concept of "intentional release" seems kind of difficult to comprehend.   Release means you are allowing the wrists to move freely.   Intentional means that at some point you are making a conscious effort to do so.  Sounds like that would take some incredible timing.  Doubt that most of us are capable of pulling that off.  

[metaldog]

I have to consciously do it otherwise it becomes a handle drag non-release where I get more hinge during the downswing and can’t release my angles in time

[shankasaurus rex]

I have to be very conscious about setting my wrists early in the my backswing, otherwise it simply doesn't happen properly. Likewise, I don't actively think about a release, as trying to time was too much for my fragile brain to handle. So my feel is set wrist, complete backswing, then rotate the whole thing through the ball. The release happens naturally, and much more consistently. 

[Zitlow]

4 hours ago, dashanks said:

Gotcha.   Well, anyway, my feeling is that the more body parts you are trying to consciously control during the swing, the less your chances of success.    I think that focusing on the hinging and release of the wrists would be particularly risky.  Maybe okay on the backswing, but the very concept of "intentional release" seems kind of difficult to comprehend.   Release means you are allowing the wrists to move freely.   Intentional means that at some point you are making a conscious effort to do so.  Sounds like that would take some incredible timing.  Doubt that most of us are capable of pulling that off.  

 

Reflexes are faster than conscious thought because they involve fewer pathways of travel and information from a reflex does not need to travel to the brain.

 

 

 

 

[chigolfer1]

2 hours ago, shankasaurus rex said:

I have to be very conscious about setting my wrists early in the my backswing, otherwise it simply doesn't happen properly. Likewise, I don't actively think about a release, as trying to time was too much for my fragile brain to handle. So my feel is set wrist, complete backswing, then rotate the whole thing through the ball. The release happens naturally, and much more consistently. 

starting to get the sense this is a bigger universal problem than I realized.   I know I have the issue but sounds like a lot of people need to start intentionally setting the wrists earlier

[CSagan]

Porzak explains it beautifully. There's a little upcock with the wrists while you move your arm triangle back. Once your right elbow starts to bend that will make the club move vertically and set.

 

 

[Zitlow]

It's like hammering a nail, the folding and unfolding elbow folds and unfolds the hand. Proximal to distal.

 

The proximal and distal describe the position of a structure with reference to its origin – proximal means closer to its origin, distal means further away. Examples: The wrist joint is distal to the elbow joint. 

 

 

Casting the club from the top throws off the sequence. The swing radius gets too wide too soon and people have to EE or they will ground out the clubhead too early. 

 

Edited December 8, 2023 by Zitlow

[shankasaurus rex]

On 12/8/2023 at 5:51 AM, dashanks said:

Gotcha.   Well, anyway, my feeling is that the more body parts you are trying to consciously control during the swing, the less your chances of success.    I think that focusing on the hinging and release of the wrists would be particularly risky.  Maybe okay on the backswing, but the very concept of "intentional release" seems kind of difficult to comprehend.   Release means you are allowing the wrists to move freely.   Intentional means that at some point you are making a conscious effort to do so.  Sounds like that would take some incredible timing.  Doubt that most of us are capable of pulling that off.  

100 percent this. Especially for a beginner, trying to time a release is a recipe for disaster. There's too much going on to properly time an intentional release in a downswing that lasts less than  a second. 

[dashanks]

It's kinda funny that two guys with "shank" in their names are offering golf swing instruction.   Nevertheless, I'm glad you said "especially for a beginner," because I wanted to slightly amend my post.   For the very best players, timing is a critical element of the golf swing.   And what is timing?   Simply put, that would be bringing the swing together at the right moment.  

   But of course, the big picture is a lot more complicated than that.  Because the other most critical element of the swing is tempo.  I don't think anybody could argue the idea that tempo dictates your timing.  They have to be in lockstep.

   Now it gets weird.  Because in order to accept the next part of this manifesto, you have to agree that the golf swing is an eternal battle between the right side of the body and the left.  It's not like I'm making this stuff up.  Snead said golf is a left-handed game.  And Nicklaus has pretty much agreed.   Except for the very last instant before contact, he has said, where the right hand just comes in and applies the actual hit to the ball.   Maybe not his exact words, but the gist of it.  

   I would contend that the left side controls the tempo while the right side effectively determines the timing.  I don't know if that sounds like a radical idea, but my reasons are pretty simple. Tempo is basically how fast we are going to swing the club.  So take a little test.  Swing a club at a ball with each arm separately.  How fast can you swing your right arm and maintain control?  Now how about the left?   A bit slower, no?   So if both arms don't have the same top speed, wouldn't we have to default to the slower one?  A chain is only as strong as its weakest link.  That kind of thing.  The left arm is setting the tempo.  So, it's a left handed game, right? 

    Maybe not really.   Because a right-handed person's natural instinct will be for his athletic, right side to perform this athletic function of hitting a ball with a stick.  And nature will not be denied.  So now comes the instant that Jack was talking about.  The right hand is going to come in and finish the job.   It's inevitable, even if you believe, as Snead said, that it's a left handed game.  You can hit the ball beautifully without making any conscious effort (timing) with your right hand.  Because your right hand is going to get in there whether you're deliberate about it or not.  On the other side of the coin, excellent players can probably choose to deliberately control the application of the right hand pretty successfully.  In either case, the release of the clubhead is what gives the swing its power and accuracy.  But my contention would be that the average golfer would be better off thinking about other things (or nothing, ideally) and letting it happen naturally.

   

[Pepperturbo]

On 12/6/2023 at 9:42 AM, byoshio82 said:

Do you intentionally hinge your wrists on the backswing? Or let it happen naturally. Have had a couple lessons in the past where the Pro wanted me to set the wrists intentionally and go from there couldn't ever get it to stick.

 

Second one is do you intentionally release the hands after impact or is that also just a natural move for you. 

 

Years of not wanting the ball to go left has led to a hold off and I am curious if this is one of the causes of incosistent ball striking.

 

My goal since I got sober has been to get a consisten wear mark in a set of clubs. However that would require me to not be a Golf WRX junkie and love tinkering and new shinny things!LOL! 

I believe Vardon neutral grip helps after takeaway, to keep my left wrist straight, when my club is parallel to the ground before lift, then my left wrist becomes slightly bowed as I reach the top, but never done deliberately, nor do I purposely release my hands after impact, just happens. 

 

For reference, I hit the ball straight, and only most it left or right for a specific shot.  That said, the only time I hold off is when I am preventing something that shouldn't have happened to begin with.  

 

Then again, starting at 40yrs old, I am self-taught using 3 books, and reached an index of 2 in six years, still at a 4.  LOL you have tendencies, so good luck with your new wear mark goal. 

 

Steel heads today don't show wear marks like they used to.   My old Mizuno 29s and MacGregor 1025 MBs showed wear marks, but my Titleist 670's, 718's, 620 MBs or 620 CBs never developed much wear marks, yet I am all about using the sweet spot. 

Edited December 11, 2023 by Pepperturbo

[Chazb]

I remember a Johnny Miller tip years ago,he advocated an early wrist hinge at the start of the swing.I found myself struggling with my golf swing as I was a late setter of the wrist and I don’t know if I was even hinging my wrists.

My game has improved as I have to consciously set my wrist to get out of the habit of the one piece takeaway.