You hit the ball where you look. Eyeline

[MonteScheinblum]

This is a subject that isn’t discussed enough.  I have brought it up here before and it bears repeating as it has a huge affect on several components of the swing.

 

One of your brethren came in today with blocks and hooks.  His 9+ in to out path made sense.  Look at the after path on a swing only a couple or reps later with no other intent change.  Sometimes it’s not the swing, it’s where you’re looking.

[smoova]

OK, I'll bite: where was he "looking" before/after?

[Trippels]

8 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

This is a subject that isn’t discussed enough.  I have brought it up here before and it bears repeating as it has a huge affect on several components of the swing.

 

One of your brethren came in today with blocks and hooks.  His 9+ in to out path made sense.  Look at the after path on a swing only a couple or reps later with no other intent change.  Sometimes it’s not the swing, it’s where you’re looking.

Did he change where his eyes/head was pointed at set-up, or was the intent to look less to the right at the top of the backswing only?

[Ajgaguy83]

That's a remarkable difference given no other changes...... and to think so many would see the first video and try "fixing" it with other interventions. This is why you call the Doctor when you're sick.

[MonteScheinblum]

9 minutes ago, Trippels said:

Did he change where his eyes/head was pointed at set-up, or was the intent to look less to the right at the top of the backswing only?

Setup the same intent.

[MonteScheinblum]

12 minutes ago, smoova said:

OK, I'll bite: where was he "looking" before/after?

Look at the tilt of his head and his eyes

[MPStrat]

Could not agree more. Huge thing. Doesn’t get talked about enough. 

[getitdaily]

You know you just couldn't resist posting another dude in cargo shorts so you can subtly say "told you they were OK for golf".

[MonteScheinblum]

Here’s some irony.  This is a very common problem.  There’s a reverse cause effect issue here too.  Many people will sense the target is “behind them” and come over the top badly.  When they fix their eyeline, the path of the hands and club get less over the top.

 

The irony is my social media posts on this subject get some of the lowest engagement of any of my posts.

[JamesFoote]

So he’s keeping his eyes focused somewhere on or in front of the ball, while beforehand he was looking behind?

[MonteScheinblum]

Just now, JamesFoote said:

So he’s keeping his eyes focused somewhere on or in front of the ball, while beforehand he was looking behind?

Not a big fan of that for this issue.  In this case, I had him feel his left ear closer to his left shoulder  at the top versus his right ear tilting toward his right shoulder 

[Jayshaft]

Can this work In reverse as well?

 

Driver for instance - my path has been shifting more negative after a bout with the blocks, but now I’m -3 path with a -4 AOA. Face is in a good position in relation to path, but now I’m wanting to steer back closer to neutral. 
 

could it be a simple eyeline adjustment?

[MonteScheinblum]

1 minute ago, Jayshaft said:

Can this work In reverse as well?

 

Driver for instance - my path has been shifting more negative after a bout with the blocks, but now I’m -3 path with a -4 AOA. Face is in a good position in relation to path, but now I’m wanting to steer back closer to neutral. 
 

could it be a simple eyeline adjustment?

Very possible assuming no other significant issues.

[virtuoso]

Agree 95 percent. Not talked about enough.

 

...there are some right leg things though.....that makes you over-assist with the head tilts....

[Valtiel]

[betarhoalphadelta]

Hey look, I'm internet famous! Or possibly infamous! (They're the same thing, right??)

 

Thanks for the lesson today, Monte. It was illuminating in many ways. Just to see this slight difference in nothing other than keeping my head in a better alignment through the swing make massive path differences will be a big help. But then the stuff we did on short game I absolutely KNOW will take strokes off my cap. 

 

To everyone... This head movement is a consistent thing that I've had in my swing since, well, at LEAST the advent of coming back to the game in 2020 and using cellphone video to film my swing. Anyone who has seen my improvement thread will see that pattern in my posted swings over the years. But not until today did I understand what effect it was having. 

 

The head movement, by the way, was never intentional. It's just natural; some would say like throwing a ball. It's automatic; some would say like walking. Nobody ever taught me to do it 😂

 

The swing posted on the left was an exaggeration, as that was when Monte was having me look in various places during the swing to see how it affected path. Hence the +9.7 path. But even in my warmup I'd have swings of +1.4 path alternating with +7. Which would explain why sometimes I'll stand on a par 3 tee with a 9i and put one right onto the green, and other times I'll flush it and have it headed dead at the pin at launch only to curve 40+ yards(!) left. 

 

With ONLY the intent to keep the head vertical and not tuck it over to the right like I used to do it immediately neutralized my path. Even one where maybe I went after it a little (and we looked at the video after that and I saw a little head tilt) was only +4. I.e. probably the difference between a miss "off the planet" to being "in the thick stuff". 

 

1 hour ago, getitdaily said:

You know you just couldn't resist posting another dude in cargo shorts so you can subtly say "told you they were OK for golf".

 

I'd say that I show up for lessons with Monte in cargo shorts just to troll him...

 

...but that would be a bald-faced lie. I think I've got a dozen different pairs. 😉 

 

[Chunkitgood]

1 hour ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Not a big fan of that for this issue.  In this case, I had him feel his left ear closer to his left shoulder  at the top versus his right ear tilting toward his right shoulder 

So in a post about “you hit where you look,” you’re not a big fan of talking about where you are look, but rather use where you feel your ears are to determine where you look?

[MonteScheinblum]

20 minutes ago, Chunkitgood said:

So in a post about “you hit where you look,” you’re not a big fan of talking about where you are look, but rather use where you feel your ears are to determine where you look?

Reading comprehension F

 

“Not a big fan of that for this issue.”

 

Some people just have an agenda where they would rather troll me than try and learn something 

 

 

[kiwigolf72]

1 minute ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Reading comprehension F

 

“Not a big fan of that for this issue.”

 

Some people just have an agenda where they would rather troll me than try and learn something 

 

 

with respect, who are you?

[MonteScheinblum]

3 minutes ago, kiwigolf72 said:

with respect, who are you?

No one, just another golfer trying to discuss how we can all get better.

[betarhoalphadelta]

16 minutes ago, Chunkitgood said:

So in a post about “you hit where you look,” you’re not a big fan of talking about where you are look, but rather use where you feel your ears are to determine where you look?

 

I can say as the subject of the lesson that every time I've had a lesson with Monte (and this is no exception), there is experimentation re: feels. That was sort of a "first feel" with smaller swings. Focus on keeping your left ear closer to your left shoulder (i.e. don't tilt your head the opposite direction) and see what happens. 

 

The eyeline aspect was one that I actually took to fairly quickly. The concept was simple. The "small swings" change worked. Extending to full swings worked. It was more along the lines of "don't tilt your head like that because it's bad for these reasons". And unlike some changes, I started swinging without it and saw the immediate difference. And although it's an ingrained habit, it was one that I didn't feel completely hard to change. It "clicked". (Granted it'll take a lot of work at the range and checkpointing with video to make sure I keep things up and don't regress to the old way.)

 

The short game stuff (unrelated to this thread) I think we went through a half-dozen feels or so. He knew what he wanted me to do. I knew what he wanted me to do. Trying to get my brain and my body to find that sort of "what works?" so that I would actually do it was the harder part. We went through a number of things to figure out what clicked for me. I think it was a combination of three+ decades of not knowing how to do it right, plus mechanics issues, plus bad habits, and it was a lot more of a struggle to find something that worked. Eventually we settled on feels that produced the right real.

[KD1]

I feel silly saying this but... If the eyes are on a plane that's aimed at the target can we still turn the head such that the eyes ride the plane? Didn't Jack turn his head to help with rotation? Could we think of it as an eye plane rather than a line?

Edited January 12 by KD1

[MonteScheinblum]

10 minutes ago, KD1 said:

I feel silly saying this but... If the eyes are on a plane that's aimed at the target can we still turn the head such that the eyes ride the plane? Didn't Jack turn his head to help with rotation? Could we think of it as an eye plane rather than a line?

Not a dumb question.  It’s important.  DJ does as well and I haven’t seen it cause an issue with a golfer yet.  So even though those 2 are a small sample size and could easily fall into the “don’t do this” outlier category, I don’t expect it’s an issue at this time.

 

My experience is many left eye dominant people have the urge to do this.  Some do it as Jack and DJ, while others gravitate toward the subject in question.

[ANimz]

3 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Not a big fan of that for this issue.  In this case, I had him feel his left ear closer to his left shoulder  at the top versus his right ear tilting toward his right shoulder 

I will most definitely pay some mind to this next time I get to play.  That is crazy that it changed his positions just from a mental note.  Thank you for posting!  I had always an issue with simulators and hooking for whatever reason.  I had a free lesson through the PGA hope program, and they had a laser that pointed down the line and at the screen.  I realized that I was looking left on the screen when the line was not present.  Hook turned into a baby draw close to the center line.  

[betarhoalphadelta]

1 hour ago, MonteScheinblum said:

 

 

My experience is many left eye dominant people have the urge to do this.  Some do it as Jack and DJ, while others gravitate toward the subject in question.

 

And unknown to Monte, I'm left handed but play golf right handed, and absolutely left eye dominant. 

[kiwigolf72]

2 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

No one, just another golfer trying to discuss how we can all get better.

Sorry, truly didn't mean anything by it. I am on the other side of the world and have no idea who you are or what your pedigree is. Just when you mentioned that people like to troll you I thought I'd ask who you were.

Sorry hope I didn't offend.

[Nickb333]

So, I’m a dummy but is the swing on the right the after? 
 

if correct, why did he lose 20mph ball speed? 

[KD1]

@kiwigolf72 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monte_Scheinblum

https://rebelliongolf.com/

[MonteScheinblum]

22 minutes ago, Nickb333 said:

So, I’m a dummy but is the swing on the right the after? 
 

if correct, why did he lose 20mph ball speed? 

It was a 3/4 swing to get the movement right as a priority.  

[Nickb333]

Ah… I have noticed that a 3/4 swing solves a lot of problems for me.