Is “holding the angle” ever good advice?

[Wolfhammer]

I know, I know. Holding the lag or variants of this teaching is no bueno generally. However, would there ever be an occasion where it would be appropriate? I have the shanks terribly at the moment and stopped by to see a local instructor. His advice was to hold my wrist angles longer because I’m throwing my right hand at the ball and pushing the club face out. Video below for reference. So, is it ever a move someone should be making is a specific situation? Or is holding wrist angles always a bad idea?

 

 

Edited April 17 by Wolfhammer

[Hilts1969]

 

Not sure what holding the angle will achieve, your hips and hands work towards the target line, shanks are inevitable really. Your arms are also late. There is plenty to work on there. Just look at where your hands start and finish they go out quite a bit.  You are also steep.

 

I would think about seeing someone else personally or try getting a video lesson from Monte.

Edited March 16 by Hilts1969

[ferrispgm]

Run far away from that instructor.

[MonteScheinblum]

Holding the angle will make what you have going on worse.  Throwing it away is the only reason you’re doing ok now.

 

You need better hip rotation and less sway in the backswing.  Then your right hip kicks out toward the ball sending your hands that way.  You need to wrap your head around the club goes away from the ball first move down, not toward it.  

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CMFW-xPFdLf/?igsh=NzBmMjdhZWRiYQ==

 

Edited March 15 by MonteScheinblum

[skim4]

4 minutes ago, Hilts1969 said:

 

 

 

I would think about seeing someone else personally or try getting a video lesson from Monte.

I second this. I think there is back swing stuff to work through. 

[iacas]

54 minutes ago, ferrispgm said:

Run far away from that instructor.

 

Agreed. That's not why you're hitting shanks. And there's not many reasons why you'd tell someone to hold the angle.

 

I don't even really teach "hinge and hold" on short game shots.

 

Edited March 15 by iacas

[stevesteven1]

Keep that heel down and get your head moving down towards the ball you’ll have to do this very slowly at first. Eventually you’ll get the feel of flattening and clearing 

 

above all listen to Monte 

Edited March 15 by stevesteven1

[MonteScheinblum]

Actively holding the angle is pretty much always bad.  I have yet to see it have any long term benefit.  Many people have an immediate improvement, but it never ends well.  More often, unloading on purpose the right way is actually helpful.  You are throwing the club toward 5 o clock, because of poor hip motion and that’s why you’re shank.  Now if you tried to actively throw it to 8, it’s very possible the hips start to behave.  I see that all the time.

 

Now if you feel the angle being sustained because you pelvis works better, or your arms accelerate sooner and in a better direction, etc., that’s what you want.

Edited March 15 by MonteScheinblum

[Liveonce]

If I were you I would work on a more centered pivot and backswing structure and then Monte’s cast can help you. You have the staple amateur characteristics, sway on the backswing, wide open face and steep.

[Wolfhammer]

1 hour ago, ferrispgm said:

Run far away from that instructor.

yep, that’s what I figured

[Wolfhammer]

1 hour ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Actively holding the angle is pretty much always bad.  I have yet to see it have any long term benefit.  Many people have an immediate improvement, but it never ends well.  More often, unloading on purpose the right way is actually helpful.  You are throwing the club toward 5 o clock, because of poor hip motion and that’s why you’re shank.  Now if you tried to actively throw it to 8, it’s very possible the hips start to behave.  I see that all the time.

 

Now if you feel the angle being sustained because you pelvis works better, or your arms accelerate sooner and in a better direction, etc., that’s what you want.

thanks Monte

[Golfimprovejourney]

I don't know if this is holding the angle, but a bandaid feel I use when I'm shanking or hitting it left of left I feel like I'm dragging the handle through impact and it's just a body rotation swing. Really helps prevents the hands moving out toward the ball too much (shanks), and delofts the face to hit lower and I tend to hit a nice controlled face,  but it's just a temporary feel and there are downsides to it though. There's a reason why it's called a release,  not a drag 

[b.mattay]

"Holding the angle" is doggy-do-do on a full swing, especially if you're thinking of that angle as radial deviation. 

The only place it is somewhat useful is on a short chip or pitch as a means of means of steepening VSP and controlling radius. 

[cgasucks]

I'm a big believer in releasing the angles as quick as you can.  Thank God a Former World #1 and the 2001 British Open Champion agrees with me too.

 

[MonteScheinblum]

6 minutes ago, cgasucks said:

I'm a big believer in releasing the angles as quick as you can.  Thank God a Former World #1 and the 2001 British Open Champion agrees with me too.

 

And Jack Nicklaus

[cgasucks]

1 minute ago, MonteScheinblum said:

And Jack Nicklaus

 Really??  Did not know that Monte.  I remember seeing an old footage on Shell's Wonderful World of golf as him as a young man saying he used his legs as the source of power.

Edited March 16 by cgasucks

[MonteScheinblum]

6 minutes ago, cgasucks said:

 Really??  Did not know that Monte.  I remember seeing an old footage on Shell's Wonderful World of golf as him as a young man saying he used his legs as the source of power.

To me, it is impossible to. release the club (uncocking your wrists) too early. coming down, as long as you move to your left side.

[Zitlow]

Telling someone to palmar flex the right wrist early is bad advice because you lose the plane and you lose the sequence screwing up the chain reaction. 

 

 

The angle doesn't start releasing until around P5. The shaft catches up with the left arm at impact. 

 

 

Instead of losing his angles early his clubhead has time to smoothly accelerate from here. 

 

 

 

Edited March 16 by Zitlow

[phizzy30]

Holding the angle can make you really steep coming down which can cause a lot of problems. 

[KD1]

For what little my votes worth I agree with others here, you have to fix your hip action... And run from that instructor! Your right hip goes so far up and out toward the target line you have no space to swing. I've been there. I could give you drills I use but I'm probably the least qualified person here so... Good luck!

Edited March 16 by KD1