I’m a plus with my woods a 10 with my irons.. why? (Vids)

[Righty to Lefty]

32 minutes ago, SNIPERBBB said:

Pressure increases as you move the  club closer to you or further behind without manipulation to not increase pressure.  The straighter you make something the stronger your lever will be in a static environment 

I literally demonstrate the most powerful position in the video that I made and if you were standing in front of me going though the process you would literally see the shaft flexing. That is not static, that is intending to move, but not being allowed to.  Your address position is not under any force so you can't even aim it because the club will not return to that same location under force with out manipulating the club.  If you get the club too close to you the upper body structure will not be as strong, and if you get it too far from you the  lower body structure will not be as strong.  This can be felt in five seconds by just doing what I suggested and then moving the club slightly further away or closer.  In your takeaway you should be feeling the opposite as if you were at the front of the range mat trying to push it away from your target.  

[iacas]

8 minutes ago, Righty to Lefty said:

Once again the second that you compare amateur athletes to professional ones you have failed. 

No. I’d say more but I believe there are 20 other topics where this has played itself out.

 

10 minutes ago, Righty to Lefty said:

Understanding where you need to place yourself in relation to the ball is orders of magnitude more important than just looking at someone's ball position and telling them to move it because the best golfers on the planet have it there

I didn’t “just” do that.

 

10 minutes ago, Righty to Lefty said:

If you can't speak on leverage in a golf swing, and believe it doesn't exist, then we are done here as far as my interaction with you.

You have almost never actually responded to the many things you’ve gotten wrong and that I and others have pointed out to you. Why start now?

 

12 minutes ago, Righty to Lefty said:

I know you know somebody in the Kansas City area...I'll meet up with them and work with them and they can report back. They can video the whole session whether on course or on the range...whatever you prefer.  

Who — and what — are you even talking about?

 

That’s almost  rhetorical.

[TheDeanAbides]

3 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

I literally demonstrate the most powerful position in the video that I made and if you were standing in front of me going though the process you would literally see the shaft flexing. That is not static, that is intending to move, but not being allowed to.  Your address position is not under any force so you can't even aim it because the club will not return to that same location under force with out manipulating the club.  If you get the club too close to you the upper body structure will not be as strong, and if you get it too far from you the  lower body structure will not be as strong.  This can be felt in five seconds by just doing what I suggested and then moving the club slightly further away or closer.  In your takeaway you should be feeling the opposite as if you were at the front of the range mat trying to push it away from your target.  

You've been asked politely a few times to keep your unusual ideas off people's threads because it always ends in confusion. Perhaps you could direct the OP to your locked thread so he can determine the merit, or lack thereof, of your theories instead of doing this all over again?

Edited April 2 by TheDeanAbides

[iacas]

6 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

You've been asked politely a few times to keep your unusual ideas off people's threads because it always ends in confusion. Perhaps you could direct the OP to your locked thread so he can determine the merit, or lack therefore, of your theories instead of doin this all over again?

Seconded. I’ll continue to offer help to the OP. What he does (or doesn’t) do with it is up to him. 😀

[virtuoso]

17 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

You've been asked politely a few times to keep your unusual ideas off people's threads because it always ends in confusion. Perhaps you could direct the OP to your locked thread so he can determine the merit, or lack therefore, of your theories instead of doin this all over again?

LOL...you're trying to "reason" with him. This is not how the Righty to Lefty Mating Ritual works. He comes in and tickles a thread...and then begins to consume it completely. You are just a passenger now like the rest of us.

Edited April 2 by virtuoso

[TheDeanAbides]

54 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

LOL...you're trying to "reason" with him. This is not how the Righty to Lefty Mating Ritual works. He comes in and tickles a thread...and then begins to consume it completely. You are just a passenger now like the rest of us.

I'll only try it once! 

[byoung14]

OP do yourself a favor and just lock the thread, there are certain people on this site that derail threads because they always want to make things about themselves because they have main character syndrome.

[Sean124]

Here we go again 

 

[stevesteven1]

4 hours ago, iacas said:

Seconded. I’ll continue to offer help to the OP. What he does (or doesn’t) do with it is up to him. 😀

to everyone who has helped thank you all I did post a couple of update videos bottom of previous page just a partial wedge but hoped closer to what you are all asking me to do

 

felt great but very early days. The feel of staying in left side bend is a tough one, but it does feel like it’s getting my arms dropping first which is always a good thought for me 

[iacas]

45 minutes ago, stevesteven1 said:

to everyone who has helped thank you all I did post a couple of update videos bottom of previous page just a partial wedge but hoped closer to what you are all asking me to do

 

felt great but very early days. The feel of staying in left side bend is a tough one, but it does feel like it’s getting my arms dropping first which is always a good thought for me 

 

I saw them. They were better.

 

You're right that it's going to take awhile. Go slowly, use feedback (even mirrors, etc.) frequently… stay on the path.

[Valtiel]

On 4/1/2024 at 4:35 AM, TheDeanAbides said:

Your finish tells a story with the way you're hanging back and not getting through to your left side. There's a load of speed to pick up.

 

On 4/1/2024 at 5:20 AM, iacas said:

Then… put the ball back where it belongs (much farther forward) and stop going into right tilt so quickly:

 

On 4/1/2024 at 6:18 AM, cardoustie said:

Well your driver swing works because you pivot around your right leg and hang back

 

the iron swing is a different animal … you need weight shaft and a low spot 2-4” in front of the ball 

 

On 4/1/2024 at 6:48 PM, Chunkitgood said:

It looks to me likely you have simply learned to hit the driver by hitting up on the ball, while with an iron you need to hit down on the ball.  You compensate by placing the ball back in your stance with irons.

To reinforce these points here:



As described above + later in the thread, the ball being back of center combined with a notable lateral shift in the hips like this is a bad match up which forces you into the right tilt (head/shoulders/upper body hanging back) mentioned above. If you stayed sync'd up with your lower body then you'd either top the ball or hit in front of it. Your lateral shift is more similar to a more traditional Adam Scott type of move, and his ball is positioned 2 balls forward of yours, his being one ball ahead of center and yours being one ball behind.



This means you have to tilt and flip the club to make up for the fact that your lower body *wants* your low point to be in front of the ball, but the ball ain't there for that to line up. This is where the unathletic "armsy" feeling comes from as your ball positions forces a "disagreement" so to speak. Your lower body wants the low point in front of the ball and your upper half + arms have to take over to somewhat artificially move low point back. We can see if you look closely that your divot starts *dangerously* close to the ball, your low point is right at it or even slightly behind it:



The orange area is where grass clearly moves and the red line is where it appears the front of the divot begins. In the last frame we can see this is all happening behind the ball, which is playing with fire in terms of low point. The thin miss you described is exactly why you're good with the woods off the tee; you're clearly skilled at tilting backwards to manipulate low point likely to hit up on the ball, but all this points you towards with irons is scrape-y, thin contact. 

Your follow up video is better in this regard, and the general feeling you'll want is keeping the ball further forward and allowing your natural lateral shift to get your low point where it wants to go while feeling like you're more "on top" of the ball with the upper body so to speak.
 

Edited April 3 by Valtiel

[virtuoso]

Well, I tend to think pressure plates are a little over used........but in this case, they would tell us that if he just moved the ball forward, he would have a hard time not slicing across it pretty bad. At P4 he is on the ball of his right foot....heel almost hovering off the ground...and then races straight over to the left heel. He would have to change his pelvis movement and get his shoulders behind his pelvis.....so that his pressure signature went from heel of right foot to ball of left foot (from P4 to P5) before exit...and then a more forward ball position would cap everything off nicely.

Edited April 3 by virtuoso
Flipped feet in last sentence

[Righty to Lefty]

4 hours ago, stevesteven1 said:

to everyone who has helped thank you all I did post a couple of update videos bottom of previous page just a partial wedge but hoped closer to what you are all asking me to do

 

felt great but very early days. The feel of staying in left side bend is a tough one, but it does feel like it’s getting my arms dropping first which is always a good thought for me 

Hit it well and I hope you find your best game Sir. My parting advice is to move the ball forward when you are ready for it as the latest swing has you barely getting through the ball before your trail arm fully extends. If it fully extends prior to you striking the ball you will lose club face control and lag pressure. Take care R2L.

[Lincoln_Arcadia]

My first topic post after years hiatus.

Love seeing the responses, genuine and helpful.

[stevesteven1]

21 hours ago, virtuoso said:

Well, I tend to think pressure plates are a little over used........but in this case, they would tell us that if he just moved the ball forward, he would have a hard time not slicing across it pretty bad. At P4 he is on the ball of his right foot....heel almost hovering off the ground...and then races straight over to the left heel. He would have to change his pelvis movement and get his shoulders behind his pelvis.....so that his pressure signature went from heel of right foot to ball of left foot (from P4 to P5) before exit...and then a more forward ball position would cap everything off nicely.

 

I definitely think there is a lot to this, Ive played some decent golf staying on my right heel for longer but that has to be taken in context of me allowing my ball position to drift back

 

im working on the points mentioned and will revisit when I’ve made it stick a bit better 

[stevesteven1]

23 hours ago, Valtiel said:

 

 

 

To reinforce these points here:



As described above + later in the thread, the ball being back of center combined with a notable lateral shift in the hips like this is a bad match up which forces you into the right tilt (head/shoulders/upper body hanging back) mentioned above. If you stayed sync'd up with your lower body then you'd either top the ball or hit in front of it. Your lateral shift is more similar to a more traditional Adam Scott type of move, and his ball is positioned 2 balls forward of yours, his being one ball ahead of center and yours being one ball behind.



This means you have to tilt and flip the club to make up for the fact that your lower body *wants* your low point to be in front of the ball, but the ball ain't there for that to line up. This is where the unathletic "armsy" feeling comes from as your ball positions forces a "disagreement" so to speak. Your lower body wants the low point in front of the ball and your upper half + arms have to take over to somewhat artificially move low point back. We can see if you look closely that your divot starts *dangerously* close to the ball, your low point is right at it or even slightly behind it:



The orange area is where grass clearly moves and the red line is where it appears the front of the divot begins. In the last frame we can see this is all happening behind the ball, which is playing with fire in terms of low point. The thin miss you described is exactly why you're good with the woods off the tee; you're clearly skilled at tilting backwards to manipulate low point likely to hit up on the ball, but all this points you towards with irons is scrape-y, thin contact. 

Your follow up video is better in this regard, and the general feeling you'll want is keeping the ball further forward and allowing your natural lateral shift to get your low point where it wants to go while feeling like you're more "on top" of the ball with the upper body so to speak.
 

 

What can I say, brilliant post, makes perfect sense cheers 

[Gsea]

On 4/1/2024 at 9:09 AM, stevesteven1 said:

To clarify, I’m a home club hero 1 hcap and there is almost no one better I’ve played with that I would swap my driver/3 wood for. I hardly miss a fairway at 105mph so I don’t think it’s a stretch to say I’m a plus off the tee. 
 

on the other hand I’d swap my iron game for plenty of guys who aren’t necessarily that low a hcap. Only point I’m making is that to my eyes my driver swing looks much better than my 8 iron swing and I’m desperate to improve it 

 

the double overlap is new for me padraig tip for distance.  Happy to change everything and anything. 

A 1 hdcp "home club hero ", 105 mph club head speed, Ill call bs on all of that

[stevesteven1]

13 hours ago, Gsea said:

A 1 hdcp "home club hero ", 105 mph club head speed, Ill call bs on all of that

 

 

 

 

top number in m/s you do the math

 

 

Edited April 4 by stevesteven1

[Righty to Lefty]

Okay I can't stay away so I'm back because you just provided the proof that the ball is too far forward, or you are hanging back with shots that you are hitting off the ground and you are hinging on disaster if the ball is moved any further forward and I can tell from your setup. Here is your setup, a model representation of your setup with a ball being hit off the ground and the pencil denoting the club face at impact for a levered strike, and impact: 

Notice how the pencil is pointing out to the right, that means that from your setup that the ball should have been hit at the white stake on the right in those set of three in the middle of the range.  Your shot started left of the red stake, thus you are effectively thinning and pulling shots that you hit off the ground and that is exactly why I asked what you ball fight was, and that was because I wanted to know if you were levering your shots or not, because if you were you would be hitting the ball high.  If you move the pencil on the model representation in your mind to where your ball is taking off from the shoulder plane line that you  presented you will see that you are actually striking the ball after the low point of the swing arc denoted by the pencil mark on the trash can lid, and for a ball being hit off the ground, this is a no go.  

 

Once I saw that I knew that you would have no issue hitting driver so long as you did the same thing, which you did here is your setup for driver: 

 

This shot traveled exactly where is should being that you hit it with a positive angle of attack thus it matches what should be happening.  Thankfully you used the same address shoulder line for the shots being hit off the ground and from a tee because I think that makes it more obvious for you to see it.  A ball being hit off the ground should look like a push on video because the pencil would be pointing out to the right for a levered strike and a ball hit off a tee from the same shoulder line/ plane should look like a pull because it is struck at a completely different location along your swing arc.  

 

For reference this is a model representation of a ball being hit off the ground and a tee at the same target and you will notice how the shoulder line/ plane is to the left for the ball being hit off the ground, and to the right for the ball being hit off the tee: 

 

You have to get your low point of your swing arc further in front of the ball for shots being hit off the ground.  That can be accomplished by moving the ball back in your arc, or getting more forward at impact as others have suggested.  This will increase the purity of your strike because your trail arm will happen to have more bend in it when you strike the shot so your lag tension will be maintained and this is mandatory.  You can get away with this when you are hitting shots off a tee but you verge on disaster when you are hitting shots off the ground.  All shots hit off the ground are hit from the same low point reference, while shots hit off a tee will vary depending on how high you tee up the ball.  Am I making sense?  R to L

[KMeloney]

On 4/2/2024 at 8:57 AM, Righty to Lefty said:

 

[/quote]

 

Here's the problem (well, one of the major ones): In your video, you show your impact position to be identical to your set-up position. Shoulders, hand, hips and everything still square at impact, like at set up. The only discernible difference in the two positions is that you get your trail arm above your lead arm "at impact," which only makes the video worse.

 

You either don't realize that you're showing this in the video, or it's intentional/you actually believe that impact should look just like set-up. If the former, then your video isn't at all conveying what you intend, and you should trash it and redo it. If the latter, well, then you're just spewing unhelpful nonsense, and showing everyone that you don't know what you're talking about.

 

[quote]The ball needs to be where you can hit it with max leverage and nothing else matters. That being said as you become more athletically capable you very well may need to move the ball to a different location but that will become obvious when you can create more force with the ball in a different location than you are used to. [/quote]

 

This is the other major problem: It appears obvious to everyone but you that the too-far-back ball position is, in large part, CAUSING the OP to swing and hit the ball as he does (inefficiently). The idea that he might move it forward later (what, after ingraining a swing that he's currently forcing himself into?), once he's demonstrated athleticism in a swing where his athleticism is being stifled, is crazy. A much better ball position isn't some reward only for those who have shown dedication to trying to get better -- it's an integral part (if not a requirement) of getting better.

 

PS -- You've got the column too far back in your stance.

[KD1]

2 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

Your shot started left of the red stake, thus you are effectively thinning and pulling shots

 

High rate of face closure and swing path to the left, shot goes left. Am I making sense?

[virtuoso]

3 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

Okay I can't stay away so I'm back because...

 No one saw this plot twist coming...

[virtuoso]

8 hours ago, stevesteven1 said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

This swing is telling us something about your pressure trace...and thus the pivot positioning/sequence that is creating the core problem. Everything else is emanating from that.

[Scottbox]

I honestly have never seen so many people act so c**ty to an OP just asking for help. No one cares what you think of his handicap, performance, or status at his club. I "call bs" on YOU. Not to mention the whackadoos who are allowed by the mods to destroy this thread. 

Edited April 4 by Scottbox

[stevesteven1]

7 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

This swing is telling us something about your pressure trace...and thus the pivot positioning/sequence that is creating the core problem. Everything else is emanating from that.

yes that was just a quick lash demonstrating my swing speed to whatshisface that was doubting me, previous page is more representative. 
 

[KMeloney]

5 minutes ago, Scottbox said:

I honestly have never seen so many people act so c**ty to an OP just asking for help. No one cares what you think of his handicap, performance, or status at his club. I "call bs" on YOU. Not to mention the whackadoos who are allowed by the mods to destroy this thread. 

 

A couple people questioned some claims he made. Other than that, most people are trying to help the OP.

[Scottbox]

Just now, KMeloney said:

 

A couple people questioned some claims he made. Other than that, most people are trying to help the OP.

Who cares about the claims he made? 

[ferrispgm]

I just love how R to L is claiming he hangs back because the ball is too far forward and pros shouldn't be used for reference. 

 

1. Pros are a great reference tool assuming you ARE using what most do and AREN'T using their idiosyncrasies as the reference point such as DJ's bent wrist at the top, Koepka's lack of hip rotation going back, etc.  

 

2.  Whenever I have struggled with staying on the right side too long, my first thing to check is ball position....and if I need to work on getting left more, the first thing I do is play it way forward as a drill. 

[KMeloney]

3 minutes ago, Scottbox said:

Who cares about the claims he made? 

 

The OP, and a couple others.

[Nels55]

30 minutes ago, KMeloney said:

 

A couple people questioned some claims he made. Other than that, most people are trying to help the OP.

Calling BS is the same as saying that the OP is a liar.  Besides using an obscenity.  To me it's just someone trying to show how incredibly knowledgeable that they are about the golf swing and how they can look at a video and know another persons game.  LOL I have seen some golfers with low handicaps who look like they are trying to kill snakes with what they call their golf swing.  It does not matter what it looks like if it repeats and the golfer has a short game.  Nobody can tell from a video what another persons handicap is.

Edited April 4 by Nels55
typo