Fades for the serial drawer

[JamesFisher1990]

I'm a serial drawer of the ball - my path is consistently in to out on all clubs. Sometimes I will suffer from the over draw with the super shut face, but for the most part my miss is a push, or an open to path push fade. At least with the driver, I feel like most pro's now want to hit fades, because it is more controllable, and if they really need to draw it, they'd drop down to 3w or less. The draw has the bomb ball potential, but it also brings bigger misses into play for me. Hitting a controlled fade feels like I'd have better misses, in exchange for maybe slightly less distance (and maybe not even less distance if my set up changes correctly)

 

I don't want to learn a new pattern or feel different things, and my miss tends to already be with a bit of an open face to the path. Would it be easy enough to feel the same exact swing, just set up a little bit differently and essentially let my miss become my predominant shot? Would I need to change my driver settings at all or maybe use a lower lofted head?

[Etzwane]

On the practice range, with a well defined target

 

1/ Change (open) clubface at address and do the exact same swing until you consistently push-fade and observe by how  much

 

2/ figure-out where to aim/align so that the "push-fade" ends on your intended

 

[CSagan]

 

[Valtiel]

5 hours ago, JamesFisher1990 said:

I'm a serial drawer of the ball - my path is consistently in to out on all clubs. Sometimes I will suffer from the over draw with the super shut face, but for the most part my miss is a push, or an open to path push fade. At least with the driver, I feel like most pro's now want to hit fades, because it is more controllable, and if they really need to draw it, they'd drop down to 3w or less. The draw has the bomb ball potential, but it also brings bigger misses into play for me. Hitting a controlled fade feels like I'd have better misses, in exchange for maybe slightly less distance (and maybe not even less distance if my set up changes correctly)

 

I don't want to learn a new pattern or feel different things, and my miss tends to already be with a bit of an open face to the path. Would it be easy enough to feel the same exact swing, just set up a little bit differently and essentially let my miss become my predominant shot? Would I need to change my driver settings at all or maybe use a lower lofted head?

This will all depend on why you're consistently in to out, because there are a lot of common swing faults that produce this pattern and it is the fault that brings the big misses into play, not the draw itself. Should you have one or more of those issues, especially if your path is on the more extreme side, then attempting to change shot shape is liable to just create even wider misses. We'd have to see your swing to know anything for sure, but within your existing framework there is a good chance that lining up left and hitting push fades is the best you can hope for without changes to said framework. And if those faults are present and you try to manufacture a more outside path then you're stacking faults on top of faults which is bad news. 

Edited April 5 by Valtiel

[byoshio82]

5 hours ago, JamesFisher1990 said:

I'm a serial drawer of the ball - my path is consistently in to out on all clubs. Sometimes I will suffer from the over draw with the super shut face, but for the most part my miss is a push, or an open to path push fade. At least with the driver, I feel like most pro's now want to hit fades, because it is more controllable, and if they really need to draw it, they'd drop down to 3w or less. The draw has the bomb ball potential, but it also brings bigger misses into play for me. Hitting a controlled fade feels like I'd have better misses, in exchange for maybe slightly less distance (and maybe not even less distance if my set up changes correctly)

 

I don't want to learn a new pattern or feel different things, and my miss tends to already be with a bit of an open face to the path. Would it be easy enough to feel the same exact swing, just set up a little bit differently and essentially let my miss become my predominant shot? Would I need to change my driver settings at all or maybe use a lower lofted head?

If your driver allows you could open the face (sometimes lowers loft) also one thing that can help is put a alignment stick in the ground about 10’ in front of you setup open and then just work on starting the ball left and swinging along your feet. I’m naturally a fader of the ball so I’m not sure how easy this will be. 
 

I’ve tried trying to play a draw and I just can’t control it and I’d rather hit a block right vs a snap hook. Also some of the stiffer shafts can help this also just depends on how much in to out you’re. 
 

I tend to hold off my release in my standard swing so might also try holding off the release a bit and see if that helps a bit. 

[iacas]

6 hours ago, JamesFisher1990 said:

I don't want to learn a new pattern or feel different things…

 

So… you want to do something different and have a different pattern to your shots, but you don't want to feel anything different or learn a new pattern? I mean…

 

Like someone else said, how "easy" this is to do will depend entirely on why you hit the shots you hit now. It's likely not as simple as "aim left, grip it open, and make the same swing. Even something as simple as changing your alignment can result in different "feels" and so on.

 

Good luck. IMO you haven't given us anywhere near enough info to help you very much.

[moehogan]

Try increasing the grip pressure of your trail hand ring finger.

[JamesFisher1990]

14 hours ago, Valtiel said:

This will all depend on why you're consistently in to out, because there are a lot of common swing faults that produce this pattern and it is the fault that brings the big misses into play, not the draw itself. Should you have one or more of those issues, especially if your path is on the more extreme side, then attempting to change shot shape is liable to just create even wider misses. We'd have to see your swing to know anything for sure, but within your existing framework there is a good chance that lining up left and hitting push fades is the best you can hope for without changes to said framework. And if those faults are present and you try to manufacture a more outside path then you're stacking faults on top of faults which is bad news. 

During my driver fit this year, my path was about 3-4 in to out. Generally face control is the bigger culprit, and I tend to miss with the hook when the ball starts to creep too far back in the stance.

 

I believe the flight Im looking for would be known as the "power fade", where I still come from the inside but move the ball more forward, maintain a +AoA, but allow the face to stay open for a bit longer so the face ends up open to the path.

 

Here's another weird issue that's making me want to switch: The course I play the most has dome shaped tee boxes. The center is flat, then the edges curve away. So when I'm setting up on the outter half of the box and aiming toward the edge of the fairway, the ball is already above my feet, makes control much harder, especially if the fairways slope. Being able to set up more in the middle, aim toward the other side of the fairway and make the same swing, with the expectation that it starts down the middle and just falls away from me, feels like a less risky shot.

 

Also, of the 37 holes I play the most, about 80% of the holes call for a fade or straight ball.

[JamesFisher1990]

13 hours ago, iacas said:

 

So… you want to do something different and have a different pattern to your shots, but you don't want to feel anything different or learn a new pattern? I mean…

 

Like someone else said, how "easy" this is to do will depend entirely on why you hit the shots you hit now. It's likely not as simple as "aim left, grip it open, and make the same swing. Even something as simple as changing your alignment can result in different "feels" and so on.

 

Good luck. IMO you haven't given us anywhere near enough info to help you very much.

I don't practice much, so trying to learn something new when I can try and adapt what I already do now feels more optimal. To me, this isn't a few pattern, it's trying to turn my common miss into something more playable.

 

What other info do you need? I actually kind of thought that exactly what you described would pretty much be what it took. The so called, "power fade".

[SNIPERBBB]

When I went down this path, I basically had to retrain my hands. Used to be much more handsy. Now I'm more of a hold off release guy.

 

If you just to tame the draw down, go up a flex or so and drop the loft of the club.

[phizzy30]

7 hours ago, JamesFisher1990 said:

I don't practice much, so trying to learn something new when I can try and adapt what I already do now feels more optimal. To me, this isn't a few pattern, it's trying to turn my common miss into something more playable.

 

What other info do you need? I actually kind of thought that exactly what you described would pretty much be what it took. The so called, "power fade".

I'm pretty much in the same boat as you.  All I can say is that if you're not willing to change your path, they only thing you can do is to try your damn hardest not to shut the face at impact and play with a square to slightly open face to promote a push fade.  It's not the most ideal way to play, but you gotta have really good face control with your wrists/hands much like Lee Trevino who played a push fade for much of his career. 

Edited April 6 by phizzy30

[golfing_penguin]

If you don't want to move differently an option would be to set up with the ball like a foot forward in your stance, but keep the driver head where you currently have it i.e. leave a clear foot of ground between them. If your normal swing is in to out with current ball position then by the time it reaches a foot later the path will be more neutral.

 

Yes, you'll have some daft hooks when the face is closed at this impact spot, but any time the face is still at the target you're hitting a fade

 

(Doesn't need to be a foot, but certainly more forward of where you have it now)

[naval2006]

On 4/5/2024 at 2:47 PM, JamesFisher1990 said:

 

 

I don't want to learn a new pattern or feel different things, and my miss tends to already be with a bit of an open face to the path. Would it be easy enough to feel the same exact swing, just set up a little bit differently and essentially let my miss become my predominant shot? Would I need to change my driver settings at all or maybe use a lower lofted head?

I’m too a drawer. I can fade my driver, hybrid and up to a 6 iron only when it IS necessary so I try to play my draw as much as I can. 
 

You cannot hit a fade without changing your club pattern. You’ll have to hit the driving range and try with hands, alignment and club pattern, find the combination that works for you and stick with it. 
 

I personally aim left with feet hips and shoulders and club face kind of squarish and I do feel my arms moving a little out at take away.  I feel the follow through like any other. Same grip (my grip is neutral) in my case. Probably each player will have their own recipe. You have to find yours. 

[moehogan]

On 4/5/2024 at 11:07 PM, moehogan said:

Try increasing the grip pressure of your trail hand ring finger.

Sorry, I should have provided a little more info. Different finger tendons engage/activate different forearm muscles that can influence the amount of forearm rotation. 
 

For a fade, more trail hand ring finger pressure, for a draw, more trail hand middle finger pressure. Easy enough to experiment with before making big swing changes. 
 

If you try it and it works, thank Ken Venturi!

 

[JamesFisher1990]

On 4/6/2024 at 6:52 PM, phizzy30 said:

I'm pretty much in the same boat as you.  All I can say is that if you're not willing to change your path, they only thing you can do is to try your damn hardest not to shut the face at impact and play with a square to slightly open face to promote a push fade.  It's not the most ideal way to play, but you gotta have really good face control with your wrists/hands much like Lee Trevino who played a push fade for much of his career. 

I think all swings/flights require good face to path control... For me and the way I see it, you actually need more face control when hitting a draw, compared to a fade. Lee said it himself, "you can talk to a fade but a hook won't listen."

 

I worked really hard on my swing in the last 6-9 months - went from hitting down on driver with a path that had a range of -1 to +1... Basically I had a constant two way miss and 0 idea where the ball was going. Now I'm always in to out, my fitting on TM in March, I was about 4* in to out, with a 1* variance hitting 2-3* up. To me, the draw is a bomber flight but it needs to always be perfect, or close to: open face... and you risk having the slice that starts as a push and moves further away, could bring in trouble. Face closes too fast and you've got a low draw ball that can run forever that turns into a hook on a bad day. With the push fade specifically, only 1 of the 3 "scenarios" turns out quite bad, instead of 2 of the 3 with the firm draw ball (aiming for a fade but hitting a draw). At least if I miss the fade with an even more open face than I need, my spin will kick up and hopefully when it lands, it won't roll far. Straight balls hopefully die in the rough... Only a really closed face will cost strokes... but it also probably will on the draw, too.

 

I like the idea of moving my ball up further, keeping my swing the same while aiming for the fade, thus turning my path into maybe 1 in to out or even close to 0, while making some adjustments to ensure an open face (hosel settings, add some weight on the toe, etc.)