US Olympics Golf Team

[GoGoErky]

58 minutes ago, sdiver68 said:

That's fair only so long as we agree it's exactly that, a PGA led (already proven) business model that's currently being used to exclude LIV. Not an actual world ranking system. Thus it has no business being used for the Olympics but is because, see #3.

You keep ignoring the fact it’s not pga tour led and it’s a group of various members representing all parts of golf from Augusta which has no affiliation with the PGA tour other than it’s an event that counts for one of their, both parties of the ruling body.  Not ofne of them is in single control. We get it you don’t like the oga tour but your bias is clouding your ability yo see who is at fault. Nobody is excluding the LIV tour from earning points the than the LIV leadership themselves.  No matter how many times you repeat it no du is blocking the LIV tour.. the Olympic committee mad here decision, nobody forced them. They coups have had some qualifying series and assigned points but they chose to use an existing system. Take your complaints to the Olympics committee and stop acting as if they were forced to use owgr.

 

1 hour ago, sdiver68 said:

2) Somewhat fair, they said they could do it but have not done so. They are hanging their public hat on other reasons why they want LIV to change their business model.

 

Again hypocritical and ironic tnat you want the owgr to change their business model to accommodate a single tour while saying said tour shouldn’t to adjust theirs to comply with a longer standing standard in the industry. This argument is weak and baseless.

 

1 hour ago, sdiver68 said:

3) Really? Lets see what the organization who runs and makes the rules for Olympic golf have to say on their own website

 

"The IGF operates under a collaborative delivery model of staffing and resourcing from its membership using a matrix structure. This structure consists of a small core team in Switzerland, and the utilisation of resources from seven “Delivery Partners” (The R&A, USGA, PGA TOUR , European Tour  (ed-PGA European Tour), PGA of America, LPGA, Masters Tournament) to fulfil our obligations as an International Federation."

 

They literally state they are beholden to the PGA.

They are collaborating with which means they willfully partnered with them to which they are also partnering with all the parties who are involved in owgr and the lpga for the ladies. They aren’t beholding to anyone they are willing partners. Again a weak argument all to show your disdain for one organization that isn’t the controlling party in the rankings.

 

1 hour ago, sdiver68 said:

I'm not ignoring anything. Your default position seems to be LIV players did it to themselves. My position is the politics of professional golf should have nothing to do with Olympic team selection.

You’re ignoring the politics that LIV and specifically Greg Norman had in the whole thing. LIV basically bought their members with large sums of money, Norman lied to them about being able to play on the PGA Tour and DPWT and LIV at the same time and that those tours can’t suspend them. The players naively bought that garbage and learned their lesson the hardway. Nobody forced any of the LIV players to join that tour and especially all the OEMs who left after the others were suspended. They knew the consequences when they took the money. This is pretty obvious to see. Saying anyone is to blame for their decisions is passing rhe buck on personal responsibility. Back to the point that LIV chose to not join the owgr it’s also their leaderships fault.

 

If you think politics of any kind isn’t involved in decisions with the Olympics you fail to realize that politics is what drives the Olympics from what country gets them, who can and can’t participate. Word politics are a part of the Olympics. But again the Olympics willfully partnered with all the major players in golf. They can’t control what LIv decides to do to about joining or not joking the owgr especially considering Olympic golf was around long before LIv was even a thing

[GoGoErky]

1 hour ago, sdiver68 said:

 

Oh you mean like Tiger's special lifetime PGA exemption status for lifetime achievement?

Tiger already has lifetime exemption on the tour because he met the requirements for time on tour and career wins. You know who else almost had that’s before they quit the tour for money? DJ. All he had to do was meet the time requirement.

 

What they did is nothing different than the creating a category just like the category that allows lifetime exemption on the tour for 20 wins and whatever the number of heads on tour are. Which is no different than many of the other categories that create exemptions for players like the 2 year exemption for winning an event, 5 years for winning a a major, or the one August has with lifetime invite if you win the masters.

 

if you understood how players get their cards, how they keep, then and how people can get on tour you wouldn’t be complaining or trying to make a fruitless argument 

[cdnglf]

2 hours ago, sdiver68 said:

 

Oh you mean like Tiger's special lifetime PGA exemption status for lifetime achievement?

Available to all with 80 career wins, if I read the release correctly

[Archimedes65]

4 hours ago, MountainKing said:

 

I would bet anything, none of them would do it if they had to play extra golf to get there.  I would bet most of them look at the Olympics as a "nice to have", and actually showing up to the Olympics is all the commitment they want.

 

You think that they’d fly all the way to Paris and spend a week there playing in the Olympics and they wouldn’t spend five hours at a neutral site in the U.S. to qualify?

 

Based on what the players have said about really wanting to play for their countries, I’d be willing to bet they’d show up to qualifying.  And any that don’t, well then you have your cuts.

[GoGoErky]

50 minutes ago, cdnglf said:

Available to all with 80 career wins, if I read the release correctly

Exactly. If anyone else reaches that they get the same exemption. No different than the category for lifetime exemption for 20 wins and 15 years active on the tour. 

[bcjim]

DJ is counting on starting the clock again probably. Though its not clear he cares. They should amend the lifetime exempt criteria such that the clock restarts if you abandon your initial 15y clock. Or if you are suspended for violating certain terms and conditions.

 

 

[Archimedes65]

8 minutes ago, bcjim said:

DJ is counting on starting the clock again probably. Though its not clear he cares. They should amend the lifetime exempt criteria such that the clock restarts if you abandon your initial 15y clock. Or if you are suspended for violating certain terms and conditions.

 

 

 

I think DJ retired from playing competitive golf right after he cashed that check.

[MountainKing]

2 hours ago, Archimedes65 said:

 

You think that they’d fly all the way to Paris and spend a week there playing in the Olympics and they wouldn’t spend five hours at a neutral site in the U.S. to qualify?

 

Based on what the players have said about really wanting to play for their countries, I’d be willing to bet they’d show up to qualifying.  And any that don’t, well then you have your cuts.

100%, these guys are prepping and working to perform in events they make money in.  

 

As far as what they say,  these guys are just fed material from a publicist to spew out at the media.   There's a reason they all end up saying the same thing. 

 

And no it wouldn't be 5 hours.  There's the prep they put into their game prior.  There's practice rounds, media obligations etc.  An 18 hole qualifier is at minimum two days for them, realistically 3.   You'd also end up with sponsors and TV that want to monetize it so it would for sure fall on a weekend, competing with other events.  

[MountainKing]

2 hours ago, Archimedes65 said:

 

I think DJ retired from playing competitive golf right after he cashed that check.

 

I didn't think it was possible for him to look less interested in the game,  but since cashing that check it almost looks like he has a gun to his head and being forced to play.

[JungleJimbo]

 

 

[Archimedes65]

3 minutes ago, JungleJimbo said:

 

 

 

I can name two of the guys in that picture…. 😂

[GoGoErky]

9 hours ago, Archimedes65 said:

 

I think DJ retired from playing competitive golf right after he cashed that check.

Yep. Actually resigned from the pga tour. 

[bcjim]

7 hours ago, JungleJimbo said:

 

 

Are those caricatures? Or actual photos?

[sdiver68]

I'm done in this thread for now, I've learned some things through the debate, hopefully you have as well, and have rested my case that the Olympic team selections are beholden to PGA business interests and not to sport meritocracy.

 

In the future, when the inside stories are written, we will see how this thread ages.

 

In the meantime, enjoy your Olympics!

 

 

 

 

[Opie Taylor]

17 hours ago, GoGoErky said:

It has nothing to do with 54 holes. Owgr said they would make that work. The issue is with admittance onto the tour. Liv didn’t want to do away with how they handle that.

 

Any tour that wants recognition has to apply with owgr. LIV had no intention of being a part of the ranking system. The only reason they applied is pressure from their members who were dropping in rankings. They chose not to accept the decision from the board on the changes so therefore they don’t get points. LIV leadership doesn’t care if their members get points or not. If they did they would have accepted the criteria from the owgr.

 

Except they did open up paths for admittance. Heck they started a whole qualification series for admittance but that wasn't enough for OWGR.

I don't want to beat a dead horse but still feel if the DPWT accepted them at the beginning the OWGR would've bent a little further with their criteria.

It's all moot at this point and I'm starting to feel we are hijacking the Olympics thread so I will just agree to disagree but did enjoy the conversation. 

Cheers, Mate. 

[Ferguson]

Funny how some threads migrate to things we can't control. 

 

In the current professional environment, there is no perfect formula to determine world rankings, therefore choosing a country's olympic representatives in 2024 utilizing this methodology has no practical relevance.  Moreover, unlike other sports, the players on the US  team did not have to participate in a qualifying process.  

 

For golf, player selection should be a voting system amongst players in combination with playing record over the prior 24 months.      

 

Bottom line, Ferguson is not going to watch it.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 20 by Ferguson

[sui generis]

When I was a kid I recall that the Olympic Games athletes were all amateurs. What happened to that? Maybe the Russians (or other notorious cheaters or perhaps everyone was cheating) messed it up?

[BlackDiamondPar5]

51 minutes ago, Ferguson said:

Funny how some threads migrate to things we can't control. 

 

In the current professional environment, there is no perfect formula to determine world rankings, therefore choosing a country's olympic representatives in 2024 utilizing this methodology has no practical relevance.  Moreover, unlike other sports, the players on the US  team did not have to participate in a qualifying process.  

 

For golf, player selection should be a voting system amongst players in combination with playing record over the prior 24 months.      

 

Bottom line, Ferguson is not going to watch it.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm with you.  Didn't even know about the Olympics until I saw this thread 

[Rapidcat]

59 minutes ago, Ferguson said:

Funny how some threads migrate to things we can't control. 

 

In the current professional environment, there is no perfect formula to determine world rankings, therefore choosing a country's olympic representatives in 2024 utilizing this methodology has no practical relevance.  Moreover, unlike other sports, the players on the US  team did not have to participate in a qualifying process.  

 

For golf, player selection should be a voting system amongst players in combination with playing record over the prior 24 months.      

 

Bottom line, Ferguson is not going to watch it.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I bet you will...you won't be able to resist despite your misgivings.

[MtlJeff]

1 hour ago, Ferguson said:

Funny how some threads migrate to things we can't control. 

 

In the current professional environment, there is no perfect formula to determine world rankings, therefore choosing a country's olympic representatives in 2024 utilizing this methodology has no practical relevance.  Moreover, unlike other sports, the players on the US  team did not have to participate in a qualifying process.  

 

For golf, player selection should be a voting system amongst players in combination with playing record over the prior 24 months.      

 

Bottom line, Ferguson is not going to watch it.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I rarely watch the Olympics also , but i agree with you.....To me it's just about whether you want the best team representing the country or not. This seems pretty straightforward. If you don't because of reasons beyond the act of one gentleman putting the ball in a hole clearly better than another gentleman---that's fine and everyone is entitled to their opinion of what the Olympics "means" . I am certainly not going to tout the Olympics as an apolitical haven of sports purity. 

 

But, onward, to the next debates!

[Ferguson]

1 minute ago, Rapidcat said:

 

I bet you will...you won't be able to resist despite your misgivings.

 

No.  I can't support Scheffler.   

 

 

[Archimedes65]

9 minutes ago, Rapidcat said:

 

I bet you will...you won't be able to resist despite your misgivings.

 

Meh, I don’t have any interest in Olympic golf, nor do any of my buddies.  Won’t be watching it.  Don’t even think it should be an Olympic sport.

[GoGoErky]

1 hour ago, Opie Taylor said:

Except they did open up paths for admittance. Heck they started a whole qualification series for admittance but that wasn't enough for OWGR.

I don't want to beat a dead horse but still feel if the DPWT accepted them at the beginning the OWGR would've bent a little further with their criteria.

It's all moot at this point and I'm starting to feel we are hijacking the Olympics thread so I will just agree to disagree but did enjoy the conversation. 

Cheers, Mate. 

Why would the DPWT accept them. Just like the PGA tour is a direct threat to their business. Anyone who’s smart will fight any threat to their business.

 

 

Again the PGA tour and DPWT are only a part of the the board so it also requires others who really only have ancillary affiliation with the two tours to be on board too.

 

It wasn’t just the ability to get on the tour that was an issue but the lack of removal based on performance.

 

LIV never intended to be part of OWGR. Their whole goal is to be a disrupter to the norm

[Rapidcat]

1 minute ago, Ferguson said:

 

No.  I can't support Scheffler.   

 

 

 

I didn't say you'd be watching the US team.

[GoGoErky]

1 hour ago, Ferguson said:

Funny how some threads migrate to things we can't control. 

 

In the current professional environment, there is no perfect formula to determine world rankings, therefore choosing a country's olympic representatives in 2024 utilizing this methodology has no practical relevance.  Moreover, unlike other sports, the players on the US  team did not have to participate in a qualifying process.  

 

For golf, player selection should be a voting system amongst players in combination with playing record over the prior 24 months.      

 

Bottom line, Ferguson is not going to watch it.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The criteria has been in place since 2016. Nobody has issue til a bunch of money chasing pros left their respective tours.

[Rapidcat]

Just now, GoGoErky said:

The criteria has been in place since 2016. Nobody has issue til a bunch of money chasing pros left their respective tours.

 

And so changed the environment.

 

Things change. Perhaps The Olympics should have remained amateur?

[MtlJeff]

11 minutes ago, Ferguson said:

 

No.  I can't support Scheffler.   

 

 

 

Please, as if he will be playing.....guy will be in a Bastille or an Oubliette within a week of landing in Europe. 

[Hawkeye77]

1 hour ago, Ferguson said:

Funny how some threads migrate to things we can't control. 

 

In the current professional enill vironment, there is no perfect formula to determine world rankings, therefore choosing a country's olympic representatives in 2024 utilizing this methodology has no practical relevance.  Moreover, unlike other sports, the players on the US  team did not have to participate in a qualifying process.  

 

For golf, player selection should be a voting system amongst players in combination with playing record over the prior 24 months.      

 

Bottom line, Ferguson is not going to watch it.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

IMO the coverage from the re-established competition in Brazil was a major snoozer visually and competitively - I watched a fair amount then because I was a rooting for Stenson, lol, but haven't watched since and won't.  I still don't think it belongs in the Olympics and the repercussions/concessions/upset caused by adding the games by all those involved (not just the PGAT) have played into some of the schedule related dissatisfaction the past few years (with some consequences), including but not limited to, the silly move of the PGA Championship.  

[AZBRONCFAN]

Criteria has been in place since they set it up. I have no problem with Bryson not making it based off that because Cantlay was next in line I think. That being said, the Olympic team for the USA shouldn't have anything to do with the PGA tour and it should take the best players. OWGR is a flawed metric for that. 

[cdnglf]

3 minutes ago, Rapidcat said:

 

And so changed the environment.

 

Things change. Perhaps The Olympics should have remained amateur?

Ah, for the days of noble amateurs such as Vladislav Tretiak, Major in the Soviet Army (Ice Hockey Battalion)