What about a shaft causes elbow pain

[JSkinner]

I'm not sure this is the right place for this or not.  I have been playing Modus 120 for a few years and no pain.  I was recently fitted for Modus 115 and from what I read they are stiffer in the handle.  Years ago I played PX but went away from it due to elbow pain.  What is it about a shaft that causes that pain?  A stiffer handle?  A stiffer tip?  I'm sure its unique to each persons delivery of the shaft but I was just wondering if anyone has some insight on this.  Thanks!

[OnTheBag]

The root cause answer is vibration.  However, severity and duration are affected by age, injuries, your swing tendencies, etc...  Elbow and wrist pain are the predominant reasons that most golfers switch to graphite shafts.

[mikes919]

I find that shock/impact are what inflame my elbow. I’ve had some degree of elbow tendinitis ever since high school tennis. I wear a tennis elbow strap when I golf, and try to avoid hitting off mats. They are guaranteed to make my elbow sore, regardless of what kind of shaft I’m using.

 

In general, I’ve found that softer is better for the elbow. Especially in the butt and mid sections of the shaft. My basic assumption is that the additional flex is spreading out the impact and leading to less peak stress on the elbow tendons. Less weight also seems to help.

 

I was pretty confident I would move to graphite this year, but ended up in Modus 105s and they’re fine as long as I stick to grass. Feel and flight is similar to my old DG S300s, but lighter and a little better at shock absorption, since they tend to play a little soft to flex.

[Mike_C]

My elbow problems started in 2017 when I switched to Modus 120 X shafts.   Before them I was playing C-Taper 120s for several years, and before that was in PX 6.5.

 

My pain started about 3–4 weeks after the switch, gave them another month and by then it was pretty bad.  I ended up switching to graphite, tried several models, and eventually settled on Recoils. 

 

I think it was the stiff tip of the Modus 120 X, coupled with getting older and losing strength in my arms.   My arms being a bit weaker put stress on my joints, and the stiffer shafts created more vibration, and there you go , tendinous, I ended up having in both elbows. Took a year or two to really go away, and to this day I have to be careful, I have toyed with going back to steel, then I  remember why I switched to graphite after a couple of rounds with steel....

[Pepperturbo]

48 minutes ago, JSkinner said:

I'm not sure this is the right place for this or not.  I have been playing Modus 120 for a few years and no pain.  I was recently fitted for Modus 115 and from what I read they are stiffer in the handle.  Years ago I played PX but went away from it due to elbow pain.  What is it about a shaft that causes that pain?  A stiffer handle?  A stiffer tip?  I'm sure its unique to each persons delivery of the shaft but I was just wondering if anyone has some insight on this.  Thanks!

Those two, 115 vs 120 shafts, same flex, have different bend profiles with 115 actually being heavier than 120, from what I know.

 

Two profiles can be the same flex but one has a stiffer handle and tip, while the other is softer handle and tip; the former may, due to shock and vibration, cause certain people problems while the latter is smoother. 

 

I played PX 6.0 for 15+yrs, then 5yrs back moved to composite to lessen wear on my body.

[me05501]

Any shaft you feel like you need to swing harder to get your usual results from can lead to stress on your joints. 

[sociojeje]

Two different issues: 1) Vibraration when hitting the ball (and turf).  2) Elbow extension when releasing the club. I think your issue is more about the first? Interrstingly, I had it with project x, not modus. 

[st1800e]

37 minutes ago, mikes919 said:

I wear a tennis elbow strap when I golf

Long term use of a strap can be counterproductive. 
 

https://tenniselbowclassroom.com/treatments/braces-slow-tennis-elbow-recovery/

[mikes919]

3 hours ago, st1800e said:

Long term use of a strap can be counterproductive. 
 

https://tenniselbowclassroom.com/treatments/braces-slow-tennis-elbow-recovery/

Sure, but I'm not suggesting that anyone wear an arm strap 24/7. The article you linked says that it makes sense to wear a brace while you are actively playing tennis or golf. Just not other times, when you're at rest and your body needs to work on healing the tendons.

 

I've found that if I play without the strap, I'm more likely to get soreness afterwards. It's not a cure or a perfect solution, but anecdotally it seems to help a bit. It makes a more significant difference when I play tennis.

[skraly]

There are two components to shaft vibration, amplitude and frequency.  Either or both can contribute to joint pain in a golfer.  In general, graphite shafts are lower in both components compared to steel.  But, for any given golfer one or the other may be a major contributor.  That is why, while two shafts may both be of similar measured stiffness at the butt, one may cause discomfort while the other does not.  I've even seen some golfers that switched to a softer flex steel shaft looking for joint pain relief and it actually got worse.  Unfortunately, due to each individuals unique structure and delivery into the ball, I don't believe it is possible, without trial, to figure out which steel shafts might be more user friendly.  But almost certainly, a switch from steel to graphite can bring some relief.

[Stuart_G]

15 hours ago, JSkinner said:

I'm not sure this is the right place for this or not.  I have been playing Modus 120 for a few years and no pain.  I was recently fitted for Modus 115 and from what I read they are stiffer in the handle.  Years ago I played PX but went away from it due to elbow pain.  What is it about a shaft that causes that pain?  A stiffer handle?  A stiffer tip?  I'm sure its unique to each persons delivery of the shaft but I was just wondering if anyone has some insight on this.  Thanks!

 

Elbow pain is caused by the inflammation of the tendons.   The actual cause of the initial damage that leads to the inflammation is from the swing itself, not the shaft.   More often than not it's an over use injury - also usually made worse through a lack of proper warm ups or stretching and not enough rest after the injury occurs.  Maybe for some people it's also compounded by time on a hard range mat and the impact of of the club against that hard surface.

 

That doesn't mean the shaft can't be a contributing factor.    For some people, the feel of the shaft - both stiffness feel and weight feel - can influence the swing and therefore the stresses created in the tendons or joint.  Exactly how is going to be different for different individuals.   e.g.  for some a heavier shaft might lead to a less aggressive transition and reduce the stress on the elbow and arm.  For another person it might make them feel like they have to swing harder because of the extra weight - which might increase the stresses on the tendons.  Everyone has to find out what works best for them.

 

The shaft can also influence how much the injury is aggravated by continued use after it occurs - usually by the amount of shock that is transmitted from impact to the hands and arm.  This aspect tends to be more about graphite vs steel than the stiffness properties of the shaft.

 

 

 

 

[Nessism]

Driving range mats are a prime offender.  And the stiffer the shaft, the more the impact force will be transmitted into your body.

[rsballer10]

It's shock/impact as others have said, bend profile plays a minimal but not zero role. Graphite > steel for shock absorption 100% of the time.

 

But if Modus 120 didn't bother you, steel is probably OK. 

 

Check your grips - some grips are firmer than others, a little cushier grip can kill the shock a bit without you having to change shafts.

[Stuart_G]

1 hour ago, rsballer10 said:

It's shock/impact as others have said, bend profile plays a minimal but not zero role. Graphite > steel for shock absorption 100% of the time.

 

When it comes to aggravating existing injuries I generally agree.

 

But if the change from PX to Nippon "fixed" the problem for the OP, it's very likely that either the heavier weight or the stiffer feel (or both) triggered a feeling that he needed to swing harder to "properly load" the shaft - which in turn can increase the stress on the tendons and lead to problems.

 

[Barracuda]

I bought a FIIX Body massager after severe tendinitis. I've been pain free for about 2 years now. I also moved to graphite, but i don't have to use a strap or anything. Just pain free after  2 months of using the device.

[Poor Mans Ty Webb]

On 6/28/2024 at 12:43 PM, Nessism said:

Driving range mats are a prime offender.  And the stiffer the shaft, the more the impact force will be transmitted into your body.

This has been my issue. X100 shafts. Elbow/wrist pain crops up in the winter when I’m off mats 2+ days per week.

 

Summer now, I’m playing (off turf) 2-4 times per week, no real pain to speak of.