Mickelson & his Ping Eye2 Wedges (topics merged)

[OnOff]

Word is that Mickelson is debating using Eye 2 wedges at Torrey like Daly and Dean Wilson did last week at the Sony. The Ping Eyes have square grooves but are legal to game on tour because they were grandfathered into the rule book following a suit filed by Ping against the USGA.

 

I'm a huge Phil fan and I'm not sure what I think of this. I don't think it is a huge deal if he does play them but I think it would be much easier if he just used some V grooved Callaway's. Also, while he will be able to gain an advantage in the spin department, you have to figure there are some disadvantages tech wise to using 20 year old wedges. I also wonder if Phil is doing this to get under Tim Finchem's skin.

 

Discuss.

 

Article Link

[hogan64]

Total bush league move. How can any of them feel good about this? What if Phil wins the Masters with a Ping wedge? How nice for him. This is totally contradictory to the spirit of the game. No different than blatantly cheating IMO. Loopholes and lawyers, yuck. Golf is starting to smell like all the other pro sports. Too bad.

[elrey23]

The wedges are legal, period. People can say it's against the spirit of the game, blah blah blah but the bottom line is that the wedges are legal for play. If he can stand to look down at them then I say it's all good.

[hogan64]

[quote name='elrey23' date='25 January 2010 - 06:29 PM' timestamp='1264465786' post='2203865']
The wedges are legal, period. People can say it's against the spirit of the game, blah blah blah but the bottom line is that the wedges are legal for play. If he can stand to look down at them then I say it's all good.
[/quote]


Let me ask this, would the Pings pass the current groove rule? I believe the answer is no. So how can anyone say that it is O.K.? No big deal? What a sour deal for the rest of the OEM's. I realize they aren't technically violating the "rules", due to the loophole ([i]good one USGA! didn't see that one comin' did ya'?[/i] [i]AGAIN[/i]) , but in my mind, they are flat out cheating. I guess I thought of Phil as the kind of guy that would say, "I don't feel right about using those", but I also used to think TW was a model citizen. HA. Whatever, I won't lose any sleep over it.

[bscinstnct]

Sounds like some of Phil's other sweet moves like

the strong 3 wood at the open

and the 2 driver theory.

And I agree.

Bush league if true.

[PGA_AllTheWay]

I'm calling a huge BS on this topic. Phil takes almost all the credit for developing the new jaws wedges with Roger, he has a custom grind with special conforming grooves. I've put clubs in his bag and he will never stray from Callaway wedges as long as Roger is there period.

[HeadonaStick]

[quote name='hogan64' date='25 January 2010 - 07:47 PM' timestamp='1264466839' post='2203894']
[quote name='elrey23' date='25 January 2010 - 06:29 PM' timestamp='1264465786' post='2203865']
The wedges are legal, period. People can say it's against the spirit of the game, blah blah blah but the bottom line is that the wedges are legal for play. If he can stand to look down at them then I say it's all good.
[/quote]


Let me ask this, would the Pings pass the current groove rule? I believe the answer is no. So how can anyone say that it is O.K.? No big deal? What a sour deal for the rest of the OEM's. I realize they aren't technically violating the "rules", due to the loophole ([i]good one USGA! didn't see that one comin' did ya'?[/i] [i]AGAIN[/i]) , but in my mind, they are flat out cheating. I guess I thought of Phil as the kind of guy that would say, "I don't feel right about using those", but I also used to think TW was a model citizen. HA. Whatever, I won't lose any sleep over it.
[/quote]
You may complain all you like, but it simply not cheating. The clubs are legal and [i]any[/i] player is welcome to use them. If the rules somehow allowed only certain players to use the clubs, then I'd whine along with you.

It isn't a loophole, it is written specifically into the rules, and if the USGA had been more careful about how they wrote the rules to begin with there would have been no legal battle nor would the USGA have been forced to capitulate.

I'm not sure why anyone would expect a player to forgo a legal club that will help their game, nor can I see a reason a player would consider it.

[elrey23]

[quote name='bscinstnct' date='25 January 2010 - 07:01 PM' timestamp='1264467702' post='2203920']
Sounds like some of Phil's other sweet moves like

the strong 3 wood at the open

[b]and the 2 driver theory.
[/b]
And I agree.

Bush league if true.
[/quote]

I think he won the Masters with 2 drivers in the bag. Not a bad theory.

[bscinstnct]

Phil is the man now that Tiger is out.

Would Tiger stoop to this?

I doubt it.

I don't think Phil will either.

[OnOff]

[quote name='HeadonaStick' date='25 January 2010 - 05:03 PM' timestamp='1264467830' post='2203925']
The clubs are legal and [i]any[/i] player is welcome to use them. [/quote]

This.

[quote name='HeadonaStick' date='25 January 2010 - 05:03 PM' timestamp='1264467830' post='2203925']
I'm not sure why anyone would expect a player to forgo a legal club that will help their game, nor can I see a reason a player would consider it.
[/quote]

And this.


[quote name='elrey23' date='25 January 2010 - 05:05 PM' timestamp='1264467954' post='2203930']
[quote name='bscinstnct' date='25 January 2010 - 07:01 PM' timestamp='1264467702' post='2203920']
Sounds like some of Phil's other sweet moves like

the strong 3 wood at the open

[b]and the 2 driver theory.
[/b]
And I agree.

Bush league if true.
[/quote]

I think he won the Masters with 2 drivers in the bag. Not a bad theory.
[/quote]

Not to mention he won the BellSouth the week before by 13 shots with two drivers.

[elrey23]

[quote name='OnOff' date='25 January 2010 - 07:12 PM' timestamp='1264468340' post='2203940']
[quote name='HeadonaStick' date='25 January 2010 - 05:03 PM' timestamp='1264467830' post='2203925']
The clubs are legal and [i]any[/i] player is welcome to use them. [/quote]

This.

[quote name='elrey23' date='25 January 2010 - 06:29 PM' timestamp='1264465786' post='2203865']
I'm not sure why anyone would expect a player to forgo a legal club that will help their game, nor can I see a reason a player would consider it.
[/quote]

And this.




[quote name='elrey23' date='25 January 2010 - 05:05 PM' timestamp='1264467954' post='2203930']
[quote name='bscinstnct' date='25 January 2010 - 07:01 PM' timestamp='1264467702' post='2203920']
Sounds like some of Phil's other sweet moves like

the strong 3 wood at the open

[b]and the 2 driver theory.
[/b]
And I agree.

Bush league if true.
[/quote]

I think he won the Masters with 2 drivers in the bag. Not a bad theory.
[/quote]

Not to mention he won the BellSouth the week before by 13 shots.
[/quote]

This

[captainb]

[quote name='hogan64' date='25 January 2010 - 07:23 PM' timestamp='1264465394' post='2203853']
Total bush league move. How can any of them feel good about this? What if Phil wins the Masters with a Ping wedge? How nice for him. This is totally contradictory to the spirit of the game. No different than blatantly cheating IMO. Loopholes and lawyers, yuck. Golf is starting to smell like all the other pro sports. Too bad.


[/quote]

Call it what you want, I think it's just being smart. If he can take advantage of it, why not?

[hogan64]

[quote name='HeadonaStick' date='25 January 2010 - 07:03 PM' timestamp='1264467830' post='2203925']
[quote name='hogan64' date='25 January 2010 - 07:47 PM' timestamp='1264466839' post='2203894']
[quote name='elrey23' date='25 January 2010 - 06:29 PM' timestamp='1264465786' post='2203865']
The wedges are legal, period. People can say it's against the spirit of the game, blah blah blah but the bottom line is that the wedges are legal for play. If he can stand to look down at them then I say it's all good.
[/quote]


Let me ask this, would the Pings pass the current groove rule? I believe the answer is no. So how can anyone say that it is O.K.? No big deal? What a sour deal for the rest of the OEM's. [b]I realize they aren't technically violating the "rules", [/b]due to the loophole ([i]good one USGA! didn't see that one comin' did ya'?[/i] [i]AGAIN[/i]) , but in my mind, they are flat out cheating. I guess I thought of Phil as the kind of guy that would say, "I don't feel right about using those", but I also used to think TW was a model citizen. HA. Whatever, I won't lose any sleep over it.
[/quote]
You may complain all you like, but it simply not cheating. The clubs are legal and [i]any[/i] player is welcome to use them. If the rules somehow allowed only certain players to use the clubs, then I'd whine along with you.

It isn't a loophole, it is written specifically into the rules, and if the USGA had been more careful about how they wrote the rules to begin with there would have been no legal battle nor would the USGA have been forced to capitulate.

I'm not sure why anyone would expect a player to forgo a legal club that will help their game, nor can I see a reason a player would consider it.
[/quote]

First of all, I'm not whining or complaining, just replying to the OP's topic. Call it what you want, not a loophole, not cheating, whatever, but how anyone can deny the hypocrisy of allowing this to take place, is clearly blind in one eye, and can't see well out of the other. If the players feel good about, then go for it. Well done USGA. Well done PGA Tour. Ludicrous and laughable to say the least.

[HeadonaStick]

[quote name='hogan64' date='25 January 2010 - 08:37 PM' timestamp='1264469870' post='2204010']
[quote name='HeadonaStick' date='25 January 2010 - 07:03 PM' timestamp='1264467830' post='2203925']
[quote name='hogan64' date='25 January 2010 - 07:47 PM' timestamp='1264466839' post='2203894']
[quote name='elrey23' date='25 January 2010 - 06:29 PM' timestamp='1264465786' post='2203865']
The wedges are legal, period. People can say it's against the spirit of the game, blah blah blah but the bottom line is that the wedges are legal for play. If he can stand to look down at them then I say it's all good.
[/quote]


Let me ask this, would the Pings pass the current groove rule? I believe the answer is no. So how can anyone say that it is O.K.? No big deal? What a sour deal for the rest of the OEM's. [b]I realize they aren't technically violating the "rules", [/b]due to the loophole ([i]good one USGA! didn't see that one comin' did ya'?[/i] [i]AGAIN[/i]) , but in my mind, they are flat out cheating. I guess I thought of Phil as the kind of guy that would say, "I don't feel right about using those", but I also used to think TW was a model citizen. HA. Whatever, I won't lose any sleep over it.
[/quote]
You may complain all you like, but it simply not cheating. The clubs are legal and [i]any[/i] player is welcome to use them. If the rules somehow allowed only certain players to use the clubs, then I'd whine along with you.

It isn't a loophole, it is written specifically into the rules, and if the USGA had been more careful about how they wrote the rules to begin with there would have been no legal battle nor would the USGA have been forced to capitulate.

I'm not sure why anyone would expect a player to forgo a legal club that will help their game, nor can I see a reason a player would consider it.
[/quote]

First of all, I'm not whining or complaining, just replying to the OP's topic. Call it what you want, not a loophole, not cheating, whatever, but how anyone can deny the hypocrisy of allowing this to take place, is clearly blind in one eye, and can't see well out of the other. If the players feel good about, then go for it. Well done USGA. Well done PGA Tour. Ludicrous and laughable to say the least.
[/quote]
How do you suggest they prevent it from taking place, first of all? Secondly, why, exactly, is it a problem?

[gplynchburg]

heck,do it right,sand and lob in beryllium copper,for more spin!!!!

[hogan64]

[quote name='HeadonaStick' date='25 January 2010 - 07:43 PM' timestamp='1264470192' post='2204022']
[quote name='hogan64' date='25 January 2010 - 08:37 PM' timestamp='1264469870' post='2204010']
[quote name='HeadonaStick' date='25 January 2010 - 07:03 PM' timestamp='1264467830' post='2203925']
[quote name='hogan64' date='25 January 2010 - 07:47 PM' timestamp='1264466839' post='2203894']
[quote name='elrey23' date='25 January 2010 - 06:29 PM' timestamp='1264465786' post='2203865']
The wedges are legal, period. People can say it's against the spirit of the game, blah blah blah but the bottom line is that the wedges are legal for play. If he can stand to look down at them then I say it's all good.
[/quote]


Let me ask this, would the Pings pass the current groove rule? I believe the answer is no. So how can anyone say that it is O.K.? No big deal? What a sour deal for the rest of the OEM's. [b]I realize they aren't technically violating the "rules", [/b]due to the loophole ([i]good one USGA! didn't see that one comin' did ya'?[/i] [i]AGAIN[/i]) , but in my mind, they are flat out cheating. I guess I thought of Phil as the kind of guy that would say, "I don't feel right about using those", but I also used to think TW was a model citizen. HA. Whatever, I won't lose any sleep over it.
[/quote]
You may complain all you like, but it simply not cheating. The clubs are legal and [i]any[/i] player is welcome to use them. If the rules somehow allowed only certain players to use the clubs, then I'd whine along with you.

It isn't a loophole, it is written specifically into the rules, and if the USGA had been more careful about how they wrote the rules to begin with there would have been no legal battle nor would the USGA have been forced to capitulate.

I'm not sure why anyone would expect a player to forgo a legal club that will help their game, nor can I see a reason a player would consider it.
[/quote]

First of all, I'm not whining or complaining, just replying to the OP's topic. Call it what you want, not a loophole, not cheating, whatever, but how anyone can deny the hypocrisy of allowing this to take place, is clearly blind in one eye, and can't see well out of the other. If the players feel good about, then go for it. Well done USGA. Well done PGA Tour. Ludicrous and laughable to say the least.
[/quote]
How do you suggest they prevent it from taking place, first of all? Secondly, why, exactly, is it a problem?
[/quote]

It is my understanding that the Ping wedges would not comply to the new groove rule. If this is the case then the Tour should have made sure that they were treated the same as any other non-conforming club. How can you say it is fine to use the Ping wedge but not a Vokey with the same grooves? Where is the logic in that? Someone correct me if I am wrong about the Ping wedge; would the grooves of the Ping be legal for play if not for the Ping/USGA settlement?

[TaylorGreen]

Everybody has the right to obtain a Ping Eye 2 wedge circa pre-1980 (that wants to). These clubs are LEGAL and WITHIN THE RULES. Nuff said. Sour grapes for the pros who don't like it or feel it somehow goes against the "spirit of the rules/game". Tiger having 12 people moving a boulder for him certainly was more of an issue concerning the integrity of the rules imho I personally would rather have something more modern -looking in my bag (ala my Tour-W wedges). I can't understand why 30 year old technology is getting some of these pro's shorts in a bunch.

[elrey23]

[quote name='hogan64' date='25 January 2010 - 08:33 PM' timestamp='1264473223' post='2204165']
[quote name='HeadonaStick' date='25 January 2010 - 07:43 PM' timestamp='1264470192' post='2204022']
[quote name='hogan64' date='25 January 2010 - 08:37 PM' timestamp='1264469870' post='2204010']
[quote name='HeadonaStick' date='25 January 2010 - 07:03 PM' timestamp='1264467830' post='2203925']
[quote name='hogan64' date='25 January 2010 - 07:47 PM' timestamp='1264466839' post='2203894']
[quote name='elrey23' date='25 January 2010 - 06:29 PM' timestamp='1264465786' post='2203865']
The wedges are legal, period. People can say it's against the spirit of the game, blah blah blah but the bottom line is that the wedges are legal for play. If he can stand to look down at them then I say it's all good.
[/quote]


Let me ask this, would the Pings pass the current groove rule? I believe the answer is no. So how can anyone say that it is O.K.? No big deal? What a sour deal for the rest of the OEM's. [b]I realize they aren't technically violating the "rules", [/b]due to the loophole ([i]good one USGA! didn't see that one comin' did ya'?[/i] [i]AGAIN[/i]) , but in my mind, they are flat out cheating. I guess I thought of Phil as the kind of guy that would say, "I don't feel right about using those", but I also used to think TW was a model citizen. HA. Whatever, I won't lose any sleep over it.
[/quote]
You may complain all you like, but it simply not cheating. The clubs are legal and [i]any[/i] player is welcome to use them. If the rules somehow allowed only certain players to use the clubs, then I'd whine along with you.

It isn't a loophole, it is written specifically into the rules, and if the USGA had been more careful about how they wrote the rules to begin with there would have been no legal battle nor would the USGA have been forced to capitulate.

I'm not sure why anyone would expect a player to forgo a legal club that will help their game, nor can I see a reason a player would consider it.
[/quote]

First of all, I'm not whining or complaining, just replying to the OP's topic. Call it what you want, not a loophole, not cheating, whatever, but how anyone can deny the hypocrisy of allowing this to take place, is clearly blind in one eye, and can't see well out of the other. If the players feel good about, then go for it. Well done USGA. Well done PGA Tour. Ludicrous and laughable to say the least.
[/quote]
How do you suggest they prevent it from taking place, first of all? Secondly, why, exactly, is it a problem?
[/quote]

It is my understanding that the Ping wedges would not comply to the new groove rule. If this is the case then the Tour should have made sure that they were treated the same as any other non-conforming club. How can you say it is fine to use the Ping wedge but not a Vokey with the same grooves? Where is the logic in that? Someone correct me if I am wrong about the Ping wedge; [b]would the grooves of the Ping be legal for play if not for the Ping/USGA settlement?[/b]
[/quote]

Probably not but what's the point of asking that question? It's all academic because there is in fact a settlement in place

[elrey23]

Everybody has the right to obtain a Ping Eye 2 wedge circa pre-1980 (that wants to). These clubs are LEGAL and WITHIN THE RULES. Nuff said. Sour grapes for the pros who don't like it or feel it somehow goes against the "spirit of the rules/game". Tiger having 12 people moving a boulder for him certainly was more of an issue concerning the integrity of the rules imho I personally would rather have something more modern -looking in my bag (ala my Tour-W wedges). I can't understand why 30 year old technology is getting some of these pro's shorts in a bunch.

 

+1

 

That was much more questionable to me than playing these wedges is but it's TW so no one is gonna say a peep.

[browan2]

What part of the Ping Eye 2 wedges being legal don't some of you people understand. I wish every tour player would play them, just to stuff it in the Tour, and USGA's face. If Phil plays them will it change my opinion of him, NO way. Have you ever looked for a legal way to get a better tax refund. It's the same thing, with any player taking advantage of what is legal. But if it's been a while since you looked at a Ping Eye2, ya it's pretty darn ugly.

[hogan64]

Everybody has the right to obtain a Ping Eye 2 wedge circa pre-1980 (that wants to). These clubs are LEGAL and WITHIN THE RULES. Nuff said. Sour grapes for the pros who don't like it or feel it somehow goes against the "spirit of the rules/game". Tiger having 12 people moving a boulder for him certainly was more of an issue concerning the integrity of the rules imho I personally would rather have something more modern -looking in my bag (ala my Tour-W wedges). I can't understand why 30 year old technology is getting some of these pro's shorts in a bunch.

 

+1

 

That was much more questionable to me than playing these wedges is but it's TW so no one is gonna say a peep.

 

 

Finally, we get to talk about Tiger! I new that was why these guys decided to use the Pings!

[sulli]

For the non believers....

 

[HeadonaStick]

[quote name='hogan64' date='25 January 2010 - 09:33 PM' timestamp='1264473223' post='2204165']

It is my understanding that the Ping wedges would not comply to the new groove rule. If this is the case then the Tour should have made sure that they were treated the same as any other non-conforming club. How can you say it is fine to use the Ping wedge but not a Vokey with the same grooves? Where is the logic in that? Someone correct me if I am wrong about the Ping wedge; would the grooves of the Ping be legal for play if not for the Ping/USGA settlement?
[/quote]
I can say it is fine to use the Ping but not a Vokey because one is legal and one is not.

The Tour can do nothing to exclude the Pings; they aren't a rule making body for starters, and second they would have been socked with a huge legal fight if they tried. The Tour is treating them like any other conforming club because that is exactly what they are, a conforming club.

Whether or not they would pass the new rules is totally irrelevant; they are legal. Anyone can use the irons, there is no unfair advantage, so I just don't see the problem.

[jedi8802]

And for the record, I don't understand how people can say Eye 2s are ugly. I'd like to know what you're all gaming. They are simple looking and ultimately effective. Nothing glued into the cavity, etc. They are classic and timeless -- they will never go out of style.

[leftymike67]

"would Tiger stoop to this?"
Let's see, how about getting a gallery to move a huge rock because you can't hit the shot otherwise.
Or how about getting a free drop from a roof top way over the green at Firestone?
They all use the rules to their advantage.

[Seve0992]

The Ping wedges "would" be illegal under the new groove rule. However, the USGA shows very little foresight and even less common sense. I think every player should track down some eye2's and play them just to demonstrate the USGA's absurdity. I also wish several companies would file lawsuits to make the USGA consider more seriously the consequences of their actions.

Phil is smart to play within the rules and put some pressure on the USGA to keep the rules constant... not randomly alter a rule that has already been in effect and unchanged for 70+ years! The club rules are VERY difficult to test and administer. The USGA has had clubs submitted for conformity for years and now by changing the rule the water is very muddy. The one piece of equipment that is everyone uses on every shot is a BALL. Nearly everyone buys a dozen balls frequently. Simply adjust the amount a ball can spin or the speed it can leave a club under certain test conditions and publish a new conforming ball list. How simple. Better yet... quit promoting rock hard greens that roll like fresh asphalt and maybe guys could actually hold a green with something other that a 73* milled, zip grooved, face etched, low bounce, spinner shafted, extreme lob wedge and a urethane ball. When I watch the old Shells Wonderful World of Golf I'm fascinated by the softness and slowness of the greens. No wonder the lob wedge wasn't around... it wasn't needed. Now, its a near necessity on any tour level course.

On another very similar front, I continue to hear that the USGA is "investigating loft". Particularly the lofts of wedges that equal or exceed 60*. If they have already taken away a significant amount of spin and now begin to reduce loft, are they not tying the arms of the low ball hitter who needs spin and loft? If this is the case, why not put a lower limit on loft and tell everyone they have to play with a driver that has at least 12*? That would reduce distance and level the playing field by strapping the guy who hits it sky high and creates quite a bit of spin.

[elrey23]

[quote name='jedi8802' date='25 January 2010 - 09:19 PM' timestamp='1264475986' post='2204294']
And for the record, [b]I don't understand how people can say Eye 2s are ugly[/b]. I'd like to know what you're all gaming. They are simple looking and ultimately effective. Nothing glued into the cavity, etc. They are classic and timeless -- they will never go out of style.
[/quote]

The offset and the way the head is shaped because of the offset is unappealing to me personally. As for what I'm gaming, it's in my sig.

[Johnny]

[quote name='bscinstnct' date='25 January 2010 - 05:06 PM' timestamp='1264468018' post='2203931']
Phil is the man now that Tiger is out.

Would Tiger stoop to this?

I doubt it.

I don't think Phil will either.
[/quote]


Come on now.. honestly you can say that with a straight face. We all now know of what Eldrick is capable of "stooping" too.. Please you made me laugh.

[OnOff]

For the non believers....

 

 

Good find, we'll see if he games them on Sunday.

[sharkhark]

just give in and shorten the distance a ball goes...use a tour only ball...and no more lengthening to courses, no more changes to equipment..no more grooves to worry about...so tired of all this crap.

but re the way things are going...which is making it harder for us the avg joe...to have to switch to wedges and irons that make back spin harder...there is no way there should be old groove rules...new groove rules...and a exception. they either should have included the grandfathering in this groove change and make it across the board..or not bothered.

if one wins with these old ping grooved wedges...then its an asterisk to me...not quite a steroid juiced home run winning...asterisk..but an asterisk.
I see some jumping in when some like me say its wrong..and spouting off the legal jargon..i get it...its legal...but i am entitled to my opinion..as are others.
if i feel most have gone with the switch and only a small handful are using these old pings..eats akin to cheating. Legalized cheating..but cheating. My opinion.
dont like it.