Mickelson & his Ping Eye2 Wedges (topics merged)

[Cally UK]

[quote name='anth' date='28 January 2010 - 02:16 AM' timestamp='1264644990' post='2208729']
Ha! That's funny.

Like I said, we'll have to agree to disagree. You believe the lawmakers have made it legal, therefore it's within the rules.

I believe that the club fails the test applied to determine conformity, and therefore should be banned. There is nothing pseudo about that, and it kind of makes a mockery of even having the test in the first place.
[/quote]
I agree the whole thing is a joke. Surely all the governing bodies concerned must have know about the Ping 'Grandfathering rule' and the possible issues, so why not change the ball?

[JDLockhart21]

Perhaps I missed this among the several posts: Legality aside, do the Ping Eye 2s even spin more than new "conforming" wedges on the market? I'm sure some of the new legal wedges are just as effective. If the Pings don't spin more, who cares? It would be great to see some hard numbers rather than assuming that they provide superior spin simply because the clubs have now "illegal" grooves.

[anth]

HeadonaStick,

Good question.

I don't really have an issue with it. And you've made your point well. Touche.

I guess there is a big difference between my weekly comp and the PGA Tour.

[anth]

[quote name='JDLockhart21' date='28 January 2010 - 12:22 PM' timestamp='1264645371' post='2208751']
Perhaps I missed this among the several posts: Legality aside, do the Ping Eye 2s even spin more than new "conforming" wedges on the market? I'm sure some of the new legal wedges are just as effective. If the Pings don't spin more, who cares? It would be great to see some hard numbers rather than assuming that they provide superior spin simply because the clubs have now "illegal" grooves.
[/quote]

You'd assume that they do spin more, otherwise why would Phil and others put them in play?

[Cally UK]

[quote name='anth' date='28 January 2010 - 02:18 AM' timestamp='1264645116' post='2208740']
[quote name='Cally UK' date='28 January 2010 - 12:16 PM' timestamp='1264644963' post='2208727']

On another note to even comment on women being stoned to death for adultery etc is laughable - golf is a sport, this issue should not be mentioned in the same breath!!!!!!!
[/quote]

I'm sorry, did you miss the part where I wrote this:

I'm sorry for using the extreme examples but I just wanted to explain my argument. It doesn't really matter at the end of the day because it is just a game.
[/quote]

No, I didn't - but I feel it was a pointless example.

[anth]

sorry - post removed

[JDLockhart21]

anth[quote][/quote]"You'd assume that they do spin more, otherwise why would Phil and others put them in play" [quote][/quote]

Nostalgia? He used them in college. They are sweet wedges. I've been using mine for 20 years.

[HeadonaStick]

[quote name='anth' date='27 January 2010 - 09:23 PM' timestamp='1264645394' post='2208752']
Good question.

I don't really have an issue with it. And you've made your point well. Touche.

I guess there is a big difference between my weekly comp and the PGA Tour.
[/quote]
In all honesty, I suspect one of the reasons that it is a virtual non-issue with the USGA is that there is a very limited number of these wedges out there, and none of them are new. How effective the grooves are at this point is certainly questionable since they are old.

In addition, pros go through wedges pretty quickly - in a few years they'll have used all the wedges out there, and then it will be moot.

Thanks for the chat... I enjoyed it.

[edit:]

That was strange... I tried to edit my post and it disappeared. Its a little out of order now... oh well

[BWEISS4157]

There's more to this whole groove thing with Phil then what's being talked about...
Remember, he worked with the Callaway team and designed a set of irons that had challenging grooves that were deemed illegal for play (he says they were a "v" groove variant, less agressive even).
Given the fact that they gave him such a hard time about the clubs he designed you would think that part of this could be spite. That and the fact that he continues to reiterate how unhappy he is with both the rule change and their decision to deem his iron grooves/design illegal.

[anth]

[quote name='HeadonaStick' date='28 January 2010 - 12:30 PM' timestamp='1264645802' post='2208775']
[quote name='anth' date='27 January 2010 - 09:23 PM' timestamp='1264645394' post='2208752']
Good question.

I don't really have an issue with it. And you've made your point well. Touche.

I guess there is a big difference between my weekly comp and the PGA Tour.
[/quote]
In all honesty, I suspect one of the reasons that it is a virtual non-issue with the USGA is that there is a very limited number of these wedges out there, and none of them are new. How effective the grooves are at this point is certainly questionable since they are old.

In addition, pros go through wedges pretty quickly - in a few years they'll have used all the wedges out there, and then it will be moot.

Thanks for the chat... I enjoyed it.

[edit:]

That was strange... I tried to edit my post and it disappeared. Its a little out of order now... oh well
[/quote]

Yep I saw that - mine moved too! Anyway, what I said was

[obsessedgolfer]

For those who said that there has been no change in wedges in the last 25 years, consider this hypothetical situation.... you have a 10 yard wedge shot from a super tight lie, would you rather hit a 2009 Vokey SM or a 1980s eye2? I am going with the Vokey.

[drpino]

Please stop making this topic personal. Official warnings have been handed out. If some of you continue to bicker back and forth, then your posting privs will be suspended. Thank you.

[stage1350]

You aren't going to stop talent with a groove rule.

You certainly aren't going to stop talent with the clubs and balls have been optimized by their sponsors.

Even the USGA realized the futility when Callaway engineers built a conforming wedge and they wouldn't approve it because "it still spun too much." When you start using the pornography definition "I know it when it see it," you make it impossible for OEMs to build to your rules and specifications.

The OEMs will continue to build lower spinning drivers to maximize distance and higher spinning balls to lessen the effects of this groove rule.

End result? Who gets screwed out of this deal? The consumer that actually PAYS for their clubs.

Way to grow the game, USGA. If you think what you did was for the good of the sport, go spend the next 30 minutes punching yourself in the testicles.

[nutted]

If you want tour players to benefit from the fairway and greens, why not just grow us open rough. I saw a lot of chip outs to the fairway that only went 30 yds with a full swing at Torrey.

[stuway]

Phil was debating what wedges to use this week. Has anyone noticed if he went with the pings or callaways?

[puttingmatt]

If I understand correctly, He is using the legal ping lob wedge, that was bent to 64*, I am sure
they will talk about it during his play. I also heard him in a pre tournament press meeting
that his driver will be delofted to 6*. Has something to do with the ball he is playing.
According to Phil at the press conference.

[DavePelz4]

From the PGATOUR.COM website..."[color=#404040]Mickelson said his bag will include a old Ping-Eye 2 wedge that remains legal to use despite the USGA's regulation requiring more of a V-shaped groove. He said he took a 60-degree wedge and bent it to 64 degrees. He will maintain a Callaway 60-degree wedge in his bag."[/color]

[stuway]

Interesting so a ping 64* and the rest callaway?

[6keith]

correct they have been saying exactly that, old ping bent to 64*

[Body_Visions]

That probably won't make him any new friends on tour. I might have to get my trusty old Eye 2 out as well. I'm not sure there has ever been a better club anyway.

I still say they should just have limited loft.

[deeviant]

Did anyone hear the interview they just ran with Phil. He blasted the new groove change stating he felt it was a ridiculous and confusing change. He also pointed out that there were two types of grooves - conforming/legal, and those that are approved for play. He has sent in grooves that are conforming but they won't approve for play, and felt that the eye2 grooves are not legal and don't conform, but are approved for play.

[Sawgrass]

[quote name='deeviant' date='28 January 2010 - 04:07 PM' timestamp='1264712863' post='2210343']
Did anyone hear the interview they just ran with Phil. He blasted the new groove change stating he felt it was a ridiculous and confusing change. He also pointed out that there were two types of grooves - conforming/legal, and those that are approved for play. He has sent in grooves that are conforming but they won't approve for play, and felt that the eye2 grooves are not legal and don't conform, but are approved for play.
[/quote]


It is ironic that certain grooves that meet the new specs can't be played and certain ones that don't meet the new specs can be played. Phil is in the lead 2 up over the USGA. But I bet we havn't heard the last of this.

[OnOff]

Was at the tournament today and he definitely had the eye2 in the bag.

[spring70]

Groove rule is stupid and this loophole makes the rule even dumber.

I actually have been using Eye 2 wedges for the last 3 years and I wish EVERY player in EVERY PGA field started using an Eye 2 wedge .. USGA needs to go and the PGA tour needs to grow a pair.

[SafariThomas]

''If a player feels that he needs more spin, why would he not use a square groove if it's legal? The Ping wedges are legal per the USGA, therefore I don't see anything wrong with it. If it becomes an issue, the wedges will become illegal, simple enough. Why not take advantage of the opportunity if it is within the rules? ''

 

 

Golf is the most distinguished sport in history because its a game of HONESTY otherwise we would not be calling penalties to ourselves. We DO NOT take advantage, We play as it lies! If I was a tour player and was contemplating Bending a 60 to a 64 with square grooves just to get some bite, I think that would be the perfect time to hang my clubs in the garage. Just my 2 cent!

[flop2river]

LOL Karsten Solheim is grinning in his grave as Dean Beaman grits his teeth... Karsten's legacy lives on Hooooray... A guy who revolutionized the game as he did deserves it. The Anser and the Eye2 did more for the game than any piece of equipment...hence the most copied in golf today... I think it is great...looking on Ebay for some as we speak and I don't need them for a few years...

[OldSkoolTexan]

[quote name='stage1350' date='28 January 2010 - 11:09 AM' timestamp='1264698573' post='2209849']
You aren't going to stop talent with a groove rule.

You certainly aren't going to stop talent with the clubs and balls have been optimized by their sponsors.

Even the USGA realized the futility when Callaway engineers built a conforming wedge and they wouldn't approve it because "it still spun too much." When you start using the pornography definition "I know it when it see it," you make it impossible for OEMs to build to your rules and specifications.

The OEMs will continue to build lower spinning drivers to maximize distance and higher spinning balls to lessen the effects of this groove rule.

End result? Who gets screwed out of this deal? The consumer that actually PAYS for their clubs.

Way to grow the game, USGA. If you think what you did was for the good of the sport, go spend the next 30 minutes punching yourself in the testicles.
[/quote]
<br><br>
Im not a crappaway fan, but I strongly suggest that THEY file suit against the USGA. Im not sure why they havent yet. They followed the rules and STILL were denied. wtf.....

[TM golf guy]

If the wedges are legal, and anyone can get them, then I don't see what the problem is.

[JLTES]

For those who said that there has been no change in wedges in the last 25 years, consider this hypothetical situation.... you have a 10 yard wedge shot from a super tight lie, would you rather hit a 2009 Vokey SM or a 1980s eye2? I am going with the Vokey.

 

 

thats wonderful and all but 2009 Vokey SM is now illegal.....

[Splitter]

I don't even know why anyone is arguing about this. IMHO it's simple;

1. Golf is a business. (along with every other major sport). Please try not to confuse our Sunday game with theirs.
2. The club is currently legal. (It really should end here)
3. Believing it should be banned is like wishing for world peace. It sure would be nice, but until then lets deal with reality.
4. With others already gaming ping, it's not a matter of gaining an advantage, it's now a matter of keeping up.
5. Letting another guy beat you and take money from your family because you don't know how to follow the rules is, IMHO, downright stupid.