Mickelson & his Ping Eye2 Wedges (topics merged)

[mgranato]

[quote name='golf_junkie27' date='29 January 2010 - 04:38 PM' timestamp='1264801130' post='2212665']
I just heard Scott McCarron b**** and moan about the wedge on GC. I love how he said "If two guys are in the rough and one has square grooves and the other doesn't, the guy with the square grooves is at an advantage."

I find that interesting coming from someone who's using a belly putter.

I wonder if Scott believes if [b]two guys have an eight footer for birdie and the win but one is using a putter that he can [u][i]steady with his body he's at a distinct advantage[/i][/u].[/b] Does he have a problem with that? What about the "spirit of competition" in that situation?

Oh wait, it's legal, right? Right? You can use that putter, right, right?

[b]I tell you what, Scott. If the "spirit of the game" is so important to you why don't you switch to a Wilson 8802?[/b]
[/quote]


My exact thoughts while watching that. Here's a guy who wouldn't be playing anywhere if he didn't anchor the most used club to his body - how's that for the "spirit of competition"?

[bscinstnct]

[quote name='Smack Daddy' date='29 January 2010 - 04:42 PM' timestamp='1264801358' post='2212675']
[quote name='bscinstnct' date='29 January 2010 - 04:34 PM' timestamp='1264800881' post='2212649']
Scott Mccarron just talked TGC.

Took the gloves off.

"this is a gentleman's game"
"looks bad to me and it looks bad to the fans"

[/quote]

Pot meet kettle. Geez, Mr Long Putter sure has gotten morality.

Originally I was in favor of the new wedge rules but after hearing Breed explain what conforms I just decided the new rules are nuts.
[/quote]

What I found most interesting is that he seemed to make it sound like pretty much the whole tour feels the same way he does.

[tonyd99]

Tiger is not around right now to pick on. Phil is number 2 on the list.

[hogans71]

[quote name='mgranato' date='29 January 2010 - 03:46 PM' timestamp='1264801617' post='2212687']
[quote name='golf_junkie27' date='29 January 2010 - 04:38 PM' timestamp='1264801130' post='2212665']
I just heard Scott McCarron b**** and moan about the wedge on GC. I love how he said "If two guys are in the rough and one has square grooves and the other doesn't, the guy with the square grooves is at an advantage."

I find that interesting coming from someone who's using a belly putter.

I wonder if Scott believes if [b]two guys have an eight footer for birdie and the win but one is using a putter that he can [u][i]steady with his body he's at a distinct advantage[/i][/u].[/b] Does he have a problem with that? What about the "spirit of competition" in that situation?

Oh wait, it's legal, right? Right? You can use that putter, right, right?

[b]I tell you what, Scott. If the "spirit of the game" is so important to you why don't you switch to a Wilson 8802?[/b]
[/quote]


My exact thoughts while watching that. Here's a guy who wouldn't be playing anywhere if he didn't anchor the most used club to his body - how's that for the "spirit of competition"?
[/quote]


If he has actually approached PM and the others about this I wonder how many responded with the above sentiment? To be a fly on the wall during that conversation...

And yes, I agree with what you are saying..

[wega85]

I'm calling a huge BS on this topic. Phil takes almost all the credit for developing the new jaws wedges with Roger, he has a custom grind with special conforming grooves. I've put clubs in his bag and he will never stray from Callaway wedges as long as Roger is there period.

 

 

 

eating your words??

[Body_Visions]

As the starter of this topic, I [b]demand[/b] it gets back on topic. Leave the long putter out of this argument. There is nothing illegal with the long putter. This is about wedges!

[HeadonaStick]

[quote name='Pepperturbo' date='29 January 2010 - 03:05 PM' timestamp='1264795529' post='2212443']
Entertaining, even ideal response, but clearly not thought through. There isn't enough of those wedges so everyone could have them... there in lays the inequity or the unfair advantage. As for what could be done, the PGA could decide to fine or slap a healthy suspension on someone if they chose.

ps.. one things for sure all the opinions bouncing about here means squat; considering so many don't play in USGA events where having those wedges would help... What I hope happens on tour is all the players step up with their views.
[/quote]
There are plenty of wedges. I could buy one in less than 5 minutes if I wanted one. There's even a lefty for Phil available right now for $75. And eBay is not the only source.

Get back to me when they aren't available on eBay anymore. If every pro wanted one they'd get them the same way Phil and Big John did - they'd track them down and there'd be a buying frenzy. The fact is, there is no more demand for them now than there was before the rule went into effect. I doubt that any pro who wants a Ping Eye 2 has found it impossible to get one - I certainly have not heard a single complaint that they are unavailable. Not one.

What on earth is the PGA going to fine or suspend anyone for - following the rules? That would be interesting...

How do you feel about the one off tour clubs that are only available to staff players - are those players cheating because not everyone can have clubs like theirs? I imagine it would be tougher for a non TM player to put his hands on a one off set like Weir's than to get a set of Ping wedges.

[trapsmv15]

The Ping Eye 2 wedge is legal, as well. That's the point. If the USGA wants to adjust the rule, do so. Until then, it's a completely fair argument.

[makkkos]

I didn't realize that being the OP gave you the right to [b]demand[/b] anything. Not in my neck of the woods. Chill man. McCarron and his use of the belly putter is an attempt to support your initial request to "leave Phil alone."

[waaayright]

[sup]I think Phil is using the Eye 2s as a poke in the eye to the USGA. And given their past run-ins with the USGA rule makers, I am sure neither Callaway or Ping mind a bit.
If you remember the BS that occured when Callaway submitted new wedges which [b]conformed to the letter[/b] of the new rules were rejected by the USGA because they still spun the ball too much. The USGA arbitrarily reset the rules claiming that although Callaway met the letter of the rule they did not meet the intent. Echos of the first Eye 2 groove ruling. That is to say, BS.
Now that he has highlighted the absurdity of the USGA's rule, I expect that Phil will soon be sporting a new set of conforming Callaway wedges, and Mr. McCarron can go back to obscurity where he belongs.[/sup]

[hogans71]

[quote name='waaayright' date='29 January 2010 - 04:13 PM' timestamp='1264803239' post='2212764']
[sup]I think Phil is using the Eye 2s as a poke in the eye to the USGA. And given their past run-ins with the USGA rule makers, I am sure neither Callaway or Ping mind a bit.
If you remember the BS that occured when Callaway submitted new wedges which [b]conformed to the letter[/b] of the new rules were rejected by the USGA because they still spun the ball too much. The USGA arbitrarily reset the rules claiming that although Callaway met the letter of the rule they did not meet the intent. Echos of the first Eye 2 groove ruling. That is to say, BS.
Now that he has highlighted the absurdity of the USGA's rule, I expect that Phil will soon be sporting a new set of conforming Callaway wedges, and Mr. McCarron can go back to obscurity where he belongs.[/sup]
[/quote]

This part conveniently left out by the PM bashers.

Agree with your whole post...

[golf_junkie27]

[quote name='Body_Visions' date='29 January 2010 - 04:56 PM' timestamp='1264802173' post='2212714']
As the starter of this topic, I [b]demand[/b] it gets back on topic. Leave the long putter out of this argument. There is nothing illegal with the long putter. This is about wedges!
[/quote]


Just like there is nothing illegal about the wedges. My point and the point of many is the argument about the "spirit of the game." I highly doubt that the rules of golf meant for someone to use a club that is anchored to their body virtually eliminating the possibility of getting nerves in the way.

Same idea applies to the wedges. While there is a possibility that they are playing with an advantage, it's still legal.

They want to solve the problem. Take one of Phil's Ping wedges, put it on one of those swing robots and compare it to a conforming wedge. If there is a huge difference, then have the PGA Tour ban the club. Until then...

[Body_Visions]

[quote name='makkkos' date='29 January 2010 - 05:13 PM' timestamp='1264803203' post='2212763']
I didn't realize that being the OP gave you the right to [b]demand[/b] anything. Not in my neck of the woods. Chill man. McCarron and his use of the belly putter is an attempt to support your initial request to "leave Phil alone."
[/quote]


After I wrote that, I thought some might not get what I meant. I use a long putter, and I was trying to be funny.

And just what woods are you from? In my woods, we don't take kindly to being talked to like that.

And as my original post said, I wonder if there are others? The Ping remains a popular wedge.

[Sid Vicious]

Well that settles it. Stage1350 said in another thread we should start a class action vs. the USGA about the groove rules. Maybe he's right. Time to storm the castle.

Now where did I put my pitchfork and torch?

[ZBigStick]

The USGA is not smart enough to govern their own rules.

Phil has a lawyer's mind, he reads the rules and gets as close to them as he can. Two drivers, no driver, five wedges he'll try them all.

I was never a huge fan of Phil's but much of golf is played between the ears, and he is one who uses his brain, tests it and challenges himself. I admire that.

McCarron is obtuse!

[Hawkeye77]

i just think phil is a good enough golfer that he should use callaway's new wedges that are conforming wedges i see daliy doing it but not phil shows his real character. and once agian i think this

 

 

Using legal clubs by definition can't be an indictment of Phil's character. I counted the signs, are you 9? That's kind of what this is leading me to guess.

 

It's pretty obvious that anyone who doesn't like Phil wants to latch onto this ridiculous notion that he can't play whatever legal club he wants, supposedly taking the "high ground" when it is equally obvious there is no higher moral argument here, period.

 

Like Phil or don't like him, I don't care, but why publicly demonstrate your ignorance by suggesting a golfer using legal clubs has less integrity than any other golfer using legal clubs, all other things being equal.

[Hawkeye77]

[quote name='golf_junkie27' date='29 January 2010 - 04:19 PM' timestamp='1264803577' post='2212774']
[quote name='Body_Visions' date='29 January 2010 - 04:56 PM' timestamp='1264802173' post='2212714']
As the starter of this topic, I [b]demand[/b] it gets back on topic. Leave the long putter out of this argument. There is nothing illegal with the long putter. This is about wedges!
[/quote]


Just like there is nothing illegal about the wedges. My point and the point of many is the argument about the "spirit of the game." I highly doubt that the rules of golf meant for someone to use a club that is anchored to their body virtually eliminating the possibility of getting nerves in the way.

Same idea applies to the wedges. While there is a possibility that they are playing with an advantage, it's still legal.

They want to solve the problem. Take one of Phil's Ping wedges, put it on one of those swing robots and compare it to a conforming wedge. If there is a huge difference, then have the PGA Tour ban the club. Until then...
[/quote]

They can't ban the clubs, because they are already grandfathered in under the settlement with Ping.

[Rohlio]

[quote name='Pepperturbo' date='29 January 2010 - 03:05 PM' timestamp='1264795529' post='2212443']
Entertaining, even ideal response, but clearly not thought through. There isn't enough of those wedges so everyone could have them... there in lays the inequity or the unfair advantage. As for what could be done, the PGA could decide to fine or slap a healthy suspension on someone if they chose.

[/quote]

I have 6 of them in my house in Phoenix.

I volunteer for the First Tee of portland in our equipment locker we have probably about 15-20 sets of Ping Eye 2 Wedges Pre 1990. There are plenty available.

As to your other point, let me get this straight you want them to fine players for using gear that they said in their own rule are fine to use? Wow that is wacky. It is not the players fault they wrote a horrible rule.

[AZPhys13]

How is this any different than pros taking three "drops" near a hazard/obstruction with no desire to have the ball come to rest safely, knowing full well they will get to place the ball? Just making the rules work for you.

[drgolfaholic]

I just heard Scott McCarron b**** and moan about the wedge on GC. I love how he said "If two guys are in the rough and one has square grooves and the other doesn't, the guy with the square grooves is at an advantage."

 

I find that interesting coming from someone who's using a belly putter.

 

I wonder if Scott believes if two guys have an eight footer for birdie and the win but one is using a putter that he can steady with his body he's at a distinct advantage. Does he have a problem with that? What about the "spirit of competition" in that situation?

 

Oh wait, it's legal, right? Right? You can use that putter, right, right?

 

I tell you what, Scott. If the "spirit of the game" is so important to you why don't you switch to a Wilson 8802?

 

Bravo! I could not have said it better myself.

 

I think golf_junkie is either Brandel Chamblee or Branbel Chamblee read/plagiarized his post. hahaha Way to stick it to a UCLA Bruin guys.

[afbrad1113]

In my humble opinion this is a total non-issue that some are blowing WAY out of proportion including McCarron and Rocco. Ive lost some respect for both of them calling out Phil for a totally legal club choice.

[mgranato]

If either McCarron or Mediate would have bothered to discuss the topic with Phil personally before trying to grab an extra 15 seconds, they would have understood that this was Phil's way of raising the middle finger to the [i][b]execution[/b][/i] of this rule (which will ultimately get the loophole changed). Phil might have also pointed out, that for two guys who anchor clubs to their bodies, they might not want to sound foolish with comments of "unfair advantage". Phil is so far ahead of the game with regards to "getting it", you would think that some of the others might've learned by now.

[SafariThomas]

Am with Phil, The King of Cali on this one! PREACH WATER, DRINK WINE

[webber]

I saw that either the PGA Tour or the USGA has been in touch with Ping about getting the rule changed to no allow them. I don't see Ping budging, especially with all the free press they are getting.

[The Beagle]

I doubt very much that this has anything to do with performance. With all that Phil has access to at Callaway: R&D teams, clubs technicians and so forth, there are probably a dozen other solutions he could have put in play when addressing the new groove regulations; Ping Eye2 wedges just happen to be the most controversial. Even if it's just for a few weeks, having a Ping Eye2 wedge in the bag is an effective way for Phil to take a crack at the USGA over what he regards as gross mismanagement of the issue. Remember... this is not the first time Phil has locked horns with the USGA, in the past he has been critical of a variety of things including other rules and regulations, and tournament setups at the US Open.

In an article/interview I read recently... Phil's real issue is one of procedure. He believes that the Technical Director at the USGA, Dick Rugge, just has too much power and that when it comes to something as important as the rules and regulations for golf equipment, then there really ought to be more collaboration where change is concerned. And I think he's right. Golf is a billion dollar industry and there's something like 100 million golfers worldwide today... there's a LOT at stake now and this being so it just seems so odd that something so important would have been formulated so autocratically.

[Pepperturbo]

[quote name='Rohlio' date='29 January 2010 - 05:19 PM' timestamp='1264807158' post='2212894']
[quote name='Pepperturbo' date='29 January 2010 - 03:05 PM' timestamp='1264795529' post='2212443']
Entertaining, even ideal response, but clearly not thought through. There isn't enough of those wedges so everyone could have them... there in lays the inequity or the unfair advantage. As for what could be done, the PGA could decide to fine or slap a healthy suspension on someone if they chose.

[/quote]

I have 6 of them in my house in Phoenix.

I volunteer for the First Tee of portland in our equipment locker we have probably about 15-20 sets of Ping Eye 2 Wedges Pre 1990. There are plenty available.

As to your other point, let me get this straight you want them to fine players for using gear that they said in their own rule are fine to use? Wow that is wacky. It is not the players fault they wrote a horrible rule.
[/quote]

You got to be kidding... you think because you know where "X" number of them are that translates into being enough for all the tour players.  I think not.  You might want to do a count of all the players that would need them, and note how many of those FT has that are in excellent condition.

I know plenty of people that donate club to kids golf groups; conditions are not what you'd see on tour.  At lunch today I spoke with my buddy who was a Pro, and now owns a very successful large LGS; he doesn't think there's remotely enough.  But what ever...

As to the fine aspect of my statement, would you please reread what I said, and not take it out of context of the question I responded to.

[Hawkeye77]

The clubs are legal, the fact that they may be "scarce", which they aren't, has nothing to do with it, period.

Anyway, do you really think there's going to be a run on these wedges by tour pros? I'll bet you right now, by the end of this year there won't be 10 players in the top 125 with one of these in their bags.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Beagle' date='29 January 2010 - 06:19 PM' timestamp='1264810749' post='2213057']
I doubt very much that this has anything to do with performance. With all that Phil has access to at Callaway: R&D teams, clubs technicians and so forth, there are probably a dozen other solutions he could have put in play when addressing the new groove regulations; Ping Eye2 wedges just happen to be the most controversial. Even if it's just for a few weeks, having a Ping Eye2 wedge in the bag is an effective way for Phil to take a crack at the USGA over what he regards as gross mismanagement of the issue. Remember... this is not the first time Phil has locked horns with the USGA, in the past he has been critical of a variety of things including other rules and regulations, and tournament setups at the US Open.

In an article/interview I read recently... Phil's real issue is one of procedure. He believes that the Technical Director at the USGA, Dick Rugge, just has too much power and that when it comes to something as important as the rules and regulations for golf equipment, then there really ought to be more collaboration where change is concerned. And I think he's right. Golf is a billion dollar industry and there's something like 100 million golfers worldwide today... there's a LOT at stake now and this being so it just seems so odd that something so important would have been formulated so autocratically.
[/quote]



To me, he clearly has given up dealing with the USGA and Commissioner behind closed doors and is going to force the issue publicly by using the wedge. Given how smart he is, I'm sure that he envisioned the possible responses by fellow players and was likely counting on it (he wasn't even surprised during the interview at the word "cheating"). I think he will continue to use the Eye 2's until there is a resolution to the issue.

[Robert Brown]

I'm with the guys that say that the rules allow it...if you want to cry about it then do it with the USGA, not the guys that are playing by the rules. While you have it out with the USGA, talk to them about long putters and all the other things you don't like that are legal in the rules. Phil and others should not have to put up with the put downs...they are not the problem! My 2cents worth...

[H.A. Kerr]

[quote name='Pepperturbo' date='29 January 2010 - 04:30 PM' timestamp='1264811440' post='2213083']
At lunch today I spoke with my buddy who was a Pro, and now owns a very successful large LGS; he doesn't think there's remotely enough. But what ever...
[/quote]



So now an ambiguous component like scarcity has to be factored as to whether something is "in the spirit"?

You know what [i]is[/i] available in large enough quantities for everyone to have, and is still in the spirit of the game?

The rules.