Mickelson & his Ping Eye2 Wedges (topics merged)

[jaskanski]

[quote name='stratkidp38' date='29 January 2010 - 07:05 PM' timestamp='1264791930' post='2212318']
[quote name='tinman' date='29 January 2010 - 12:56 PM' timestamp='1264787766' post='2212159']
Rocco & McCarron need a couple of pacifiers!!!!!!!!!!!
[/quote]

i find it funny that both Rocco & McCarron use broom handle putters, which are technically legal, but many purists consider to be "against the spirit of the game".
[/quote]


Excellent point. Let him without sin cast the first stone!

[justhackin]

I wish I had about 100 of them to sell right now

hackin

[stratkidp38]

[quote name='jaskanski' date='29 January 2010 - 02:07 PM' timestamp='1264792060' post='2212327']
[quote name='stratkidp38' date='29 January 2010 - 07:05 PM' timestamp='1264791930' post='2212318']
[quote name='tinman' date='29 January 2010 - 12:56 PM' timestamp='1264787766' post='2212159']
Rocco & McCarron need a couple of pacifiers!!!!!!!!!!!
[/quote]

i find it funny that both Rocco & McCarron use broom handle putters, which are technically legal, but many purists consider to be "against the spirit of the game".
[/quote]


Excellent point. Let him without sin cast the first stone!
[/quote]

bingo my friend

[Sawgrass]

[quote name='oJAKo' date='29 January 2010 - 12:21 PM' timestamp='1264785680' post='2212077']

However, golfers are expert at wiggling their way out of tough situations, and they discovered that a lawsuit Ping filed against the PGA Tour and the USGA way back in 1993 exempted wedges made before 1990 from the new rules. (Don't try to figure it out, just accept it.) Lo and behold, what should turn up in the bags of golfers like John Daly and Phil Mickelson but some vintage Ping Eye 2 wedges, clubs that are old enough to legally drink.
The golfers' decision to squeeze through the loophole hasn't sat well with many of their peers. [/quote]

I'll point out that John Daly and Phil Mickelson did not have to "wiggle their way out" of a tough situation or "discover" that these clubs were exempt from the new rule.

On August 5, 2008 the USGA sent its letter out announcing this rule change. The following is a quote from that letter:

"Although currently conforming clubs with V-grooves will continue to conform under the new rules, the new rules do not mandate the use of a V-shape. The new regulations permit club designers to vary groove width, depth, spacing and shape to create clubs that conform to the new groove rules. In addition, all Ping EYE2 irons manufactured before March 31, 1990, will continue to be treated by the USGA as conforming to the Rules of Golf, and will be acceptable for all USGA competitions."

It's not as if Phil craftily snuck into the USGA's dusty archives and came up with a clever plan. The ruling body clearly announced this option to every member and to the press a year and a half ago. If Rocco is surprised and offended by this, I'm confused. What's he been doing since the letter came out? Watching re-runs of the 2008 U.S. Open?

[kal32473]

[quote name='anth' date='27 January 2010 - 07:52 PM' timestamp='1264639925' post='2208543']
Here is my issue with Phil's actions (and anyone else using the PING wedge).

Why is he using it? Because he clearly thinks it gives him some sort of an advantage.

[/quote]

No, that's not why he's using it. He's using it because Callaway submitted wedges on Phil's behalf to the USGA and while the grooves on those wedges were conforming, they weren't approved for play. Thus, he went to the Ping. And if you want to play the "he feels it gives him an advantage" card, then I guess you feel all the guys using long putters are also cheating, right? After all, they wouldn't be using those if they didn't feel like it helped them on the greens more than a conventional putter.

[SUBPARJ]

It's obviously Phil making a statement.. He has voiced his frustration with the ruling the second it came out.. I don't totally agree with him, but the USGA does look like a bunch of DOPES when he can't get his clubs , that by deffiniton are conforming, approved to play... But can play a club that is by deffinition not conforming... I bet the Cally wedge is back in his bag next week, if not by weekend.

And other pros calling him a cheater, is pretty lame, they should all be contesting the new grooves rule.. How many other non conforming clubs,besides the Ping wedges, can you play on tour ?? ... WHat a mess!

[SnapFade2]

i just think phil is a good enough golfer that he should use callaway's new wedges that are conforming wedges i see daliy doing it but not phil shows his real character. and once agian i think this

[floyd]

Everybody has the right to obtain a Ping Eye 2 wedge circa pre-1980 (that wants to). These clubs are LEGAL and WITHIN THE RULES. Nuff said. Sour grapes for the pros who don't like it or feel it somehow goes against the "spirit of the rules/game". Tiger having 12 people moving a boulder for him certainly was more of an issue concerning the integrity of the rules imho I personally would rather have something more modern -looking in my bag (ala my Tour-W wedges). I can't understand why 30 year old technology is getting some of these pro's shorts in a bunch.

 

Very well put, they all could use the Eye 2's if they choose.

[gticlay]

Can you guys post an article or pics or both about the wedges deemed non conforming that fit within the rules?

[Pepperturbo]

[quote name='kal32473' date='29 January 2010 - 12:06 PM' timestamp='1264788404' post='2212186']
[quote name='Pepperturbo' date='29 January 2010 - 12:56 PM' timestamp='1264787815' post='2212163']
Last evening while watching Torrey Pines event Nick Faldo mentioned Daly's & Phil's illegal wedges a few times.  I wondered what he was talking about, now I know.  I am the first to say although its technically not cheating, it calls into question Phil's character, and believe what he's doing is wrong.
[/quote]


It's wrong to be playing wedges that have been approved for play by the USGA and PGA Tour?  Would you feel more comfortable if he was playing with conforming wedges that weren't approved?
[/quote]

What surprises me about so many, and maybe you, don't know; seems as though people think choices are black and white.  Sorry but when others are involved that's easily touted on a DB vs. done.  For instance I employ a lot of people; because of that I can unilaterally make any and all decisions and behave as I choose, without regard for their views; yet I don't.

What Daley and Phil are doing harms their relationship with the field.  Something tells me many feel that way too, just aren't saying so.  Much like all the lurkers reading yet never posting for fear of...  I don't expect many here to grasp the subtlety of the bigger picture ramifications.  Phil figures he's big enough that he can thumb his nose at the ruling ... again that's wrong.  The question remains will the PGA step up and snap his thumb, I would.

ps... rules are for all .. Phil and Daley have found wedges that are old yet pass... the rest of the members on all tours won't be as fortunate, there by giving them a unfair edge.

[kal32473]

[quote name='Pepperturbo' date='29 January 2010 - 02:39 PM' timestamp='1264793951' post='2212385']
[quote name='kal32473' date='29 January 2010 - 12:06 PM' timestamp='1264788404' post='2212186']
[quote name='Pepperturbo' date='29 January 2010 - 12:56 PM' timestamp='1264787815' post='2212163']
Last evening while watching Torrey Pines event Nick Faldo mentioned Daly's & Phil's illegal wedges a few times. I wondered what he was talking about, now I know. I am the first to say although its technically not cheating, it calls into question Phil's character, and believe what he's doing is wrong.
[/quote]


It's wrong to be playing wedges that have been approved for play by the USGA and PGA Tour? Would you feel more comfortable if he was playing with conforming wedges that weren't approved?
[/quote]

What surprises me about so many, and maybe you, don't know; seems as though people think choices are black and white. Sorry but when others are involved that's easily touted on a DB vs. done. For instance I employ a lot of people; because of that I can unilaterally make any and all decisions and behave as I choose, without regard for their views; yet I don't.

What Daley and Phil are doing harms their relationship with the field. Something tells me many feel that way too, just aren't saying so. Much like all the lurkers reading yet never posting for fear of... I don't expect many here to grasp the subtlety of the bigger picture ramifications. Phil figures he's big enough that he can thumb his nose at the ruling ... again that's wrong. The question remains will the PGA step up and snap his thumb, I would.
[/quote]

In this case, it is black and white. Phil's L wedge is approved for play. That's it. The PGA Tour nor the USGA can "snap his thumb" because he's playing under the guidelines THEY agreed to lay out.

[tinman]

It's D-A-L-Y

[kyledeen]

i wonder how many decrying the use of the Eye2 wedges as not being within the spirit of the game have left a headcover on their driver when they took a drop.

[ssp]

Everybody has the right to obtain a Ping Eye 2 wedge circa pre-1980 (that wants to). These clubs are LEGAL and WITHIN THE RULES. Nuff said. Sour grapes for the pros who don't like it or feel it somehow goes against the "spirit of the rules/game". Tiger having 12 people moving a boulder for him certainly was more of an issue concerning the integrity of the rules imho I personally would rather have something more modern -looking in my bag (ala my Tour-W wedges). I can't understand why 30 year old technology is getting some of these pro's shorts in a bunch.

 

+1

 

That was much more questionable to me than playing these wedges is but it's TW so no one is gonna say a peep.

 

 

There were plenty of peeps when that happen - just like now. When it is perceived the spirit/integrity of the game is in question - there are many peeps.

[wholeinwon]

I would like to add something...

There is NO WAY that Ryan Moore, or Mike Weir, or Steve Stricker, etc. could not walk into the Ping van and ask for one of these wedges...or if they REALLY wanted one, they could go on ebay and shell out some cash for them.

It's not like there is a secret stash and only Phil and JD have access to it.

Everyone CAN play this wedge, just like any other club on tour, if you like Ryan Moore's Scratch irons, there is NOTHING stopping you from gaming them.

I'm not picking a side, it just seems too many people think that or are portraying that these wedges aren't available to 156 guys every week.

[golf65]

Scott McCarron criticized Phil with some harsh words, calling him a "cheater" for using a legal club that some feel gives an unfair advantage against the spirit of the rules. The last I checked, McCarron was using a long putter - some would say the same about that putter, but he is entitled to use it under the rules, so he is applying a double standard.

As long as the club is allowed under the rules, a player cannot be faulted for using it. Unfair and unjustified criticism of Phil.

[Pepperturbo]

Maybe you're not aware of how many actual tour players have to adhere to the new ruling, Not 156.  All that play, including those showing up for Monday Qualifiers, all the Nationwide players and hopefuls.  I understand Ping can't produce any more either; so walking into the tour van as someone mentioned isn't going to work.  I interpret that to mean there's limited supply world wide.

[trapsmv15]

[quote name='anth' date='27 January 2010 - 05:52 PM' timestamp='1264639925' post='2208543']
Firstly, because something is legal, it doesn't necessarily follow that it is right from what I'll call a moral point of view. ([b]Morality is not really the issue because we're talking about a game, but you know what I mean[/b]).

There are places in the world where women are stoned to death for adultery. The laws in these lands protect those that commit these acts. Legally, they are acceptable. But is it right? Of course it's not.

There are other places where citizens are killed or jailed for speaking out against the ruling power. Again, legal within that system, but we would all agree that it is wrong.
[/quote]
The bolded and examples thereafter speak for, and contradict, themselves.

Phil found some that, I assume, he checked in with Ping that they were legal, and he's using them. The issue as to more pros using them might be finding ones from '85-'89, not that others think they are on some moral high ground. At least, I hope not. That's such a pompous and ridiculous stance to take. They're legal; deal. Play your own game.

[HeadonaStick]

[quote name='Pepperturbo' date='29 January 2010 - 02:39 PM' timestamp='1264793951' post='2212385']
[quote name='kal32473' date='29 January 2010 - 12:06 PM' timestamp='1264788404' post='2212186']
[quote name='Pepperturbo' date='29 January 2010 - 12:56 PM' timestamp='1264787815' post='2212163']
Last evening while watching Torrey Pines event Nick Faldo mentioned Daly's & Phil's illegal wedges a few times.  I wondered what he was talking about, now I know.  I am the first to say although its technically not cheating, it calls into question Phil's character, and believe what he's doing is wrong.
[/quote]


It's wrong to be playing wedges that have been approved for play by the USGA and PGA Tour?  Would you feel more comfortable if he was playing with conforming wedges that weren't approved?
[/quote]

What surprises me about so many, and maybe you, don't know; seems as though people think choices are black and white.  Sorry but when others are involved that's easily touted on a DB vs. done.  For instance I employ a lot of people; because of that I can unilaterally make any and all decisions and behave as I choose, without regard for their views; yet I don't.

What Daley and Phil are doing harms their relationship with the field.  Something tells me many feel that way too, just aren't saying so.  Much like all the lurkers reading yet never posting for fear of...  I don't expect many here to grasp the subtlety of the bigger picture ramifications.  Phil figures he's big enough that he can thumb his nose at the ruling ... again that's wrong.  The question remains will the PGA step up and snap his thumb, I would.

ps... rules are for all .. Phil and Daley have found wedges that are old yet pass... the rest of the members on all tours won't be as fortunate, there by giving them a unfair edge.
[/quote]
Any player playing in any event in the United States may put the wedges into play - so nobody has an unfair edge. The rule applies to all players, not just Phil or Big John.

When I play golf, I am not trying to make anyone happy. I play by the rules. If someone else doesn't like the rules, then it is their job to get them changed. Phil and Big John aren't married to the rest of the field so I doubt they are too worried about their relationship.

How is the PGA or the USGA going to snap his thumb? They have nothing to snap it with.

I suppose when the first aggressively grooved wedge come out players should have passed on them since they gave them an advantage. Same with the first pros who put the Pittsburgh Persimmon into play. The cads. And where do I begin with Sarazen and his sand wedge. The cheat.

[trapsmv15]

[quote name='golf65' date='29 January 2010 - 12:56 PM' timestamp='1264795004' post='2212424']
Scott McCarron criticized Phil with some harsh words, calling him a "cheater" for using a legal club that some feel gives an unfair advantage against the spirit of the rules. The last I checked, McCarron was using a long putter - some would say the same about that putter, but he is entitled to use it under the rules, so he is applying a double standard.

As long as the club is allowed under the rules, a player cannot be faulted for using it. Unfair and unjustified criticism of Phil.
[/quote]
I like this example.

[Pepperturbo]

Entertaining, even ideal response, but clearly not thought through.  There isn't enough of those wedges so everyone could have them... there in lays the inequity or the unfair advantage.  As for what could be done, the PGA could decide to fine or slap a healthy suspension on someone if they chose.

ps.. one things for sure all the opinions bouncing about here means squat; considering so many don't play in USGA events where having those wedges would help... What I hope happens on tour is all the players step up with their views.

[mgranato]

Is a sport/game governed by a mythical, intangible, illegible “spirit of the game”? Come on, the game is governed by a black and white set of words written down for all to see.

Is the Ping Eye2 approved for play? Yes. Is it within the rules to use? Yes. Does everyone have a right to obtain and use these wedges? Yes. What is hard about this to understand? Nothing.

What could possibly be more elemental and basic than a list of “clubs you can use” and “clubs you cannot use”? If you choose from the former, you will be abiding by the rules, conduct, code, morals, spirit, etc, etc of the game.

[SnapFade2]

lets just say he is cheating. within the lines it's legal, but really shady. he can use them and so can anyone else, but no one wants to be know as a cheater, and right now phil is looking like a cheater.

[Sawgrass]

[quote name='Pepperturbo' date='29 January 2010 - 03:05 PM' timestamp='1264795529' post='2212443']
Entertaining, even ideal response, but clearly not thought through. There isn't enough of those wedges so everyone could have them... there in lays the inequity or the unfair advantage. [/quote]

There aren't enough of those wedges to go around? Really? How many are there?

[stratkidp38]

[quote name='dj80d' date='29 January 2010 - 03:18 PM' timestamp='1264796330' post='2212463']
lets just say he is cheating. within the lines it's legal, but really shady. he can use them and so can anyone else, but no one wants to be know as a cheater, and right now phil is looking like a cheater.
[/quote]

lets just say he isn't cheating, because he isn't, and it's perfectly legal no ifs, ands, or buts about it. how can a guy look like a cheater, much less be a cheater, using a legal club?

[hogan234]

I have not read all the posts, so pardon me if I'm reiterating, but I'm guessing the reason more are not using Eye 2 wedges is because of the way they look and perform to them. Phil and Daly have used these wedges in the past and are familiar with it's shape, bounce, etc. I love the old Ping wedges, but I know a lot of people who can't bear to look at them at address.

[lunny]

If its in the rules its not cheating!!!!!! Tiger is the cheater LOL.......

[SnapFade2]

[quote name='stratkidp38' date='29 January 2010 - 01:31 PM' timestamp='1264797095' post='2212486']
[quote name='dj80d' date='29 January 2010 - 03:18 PM' timestamp='1264796330' post='2212463']
lets just say he is cheating. within the lines it's legal, but really shady. he can use them and so can anyone else, but no one wants to be know as a cheater, and right now phil is looking like a cheater.
[/quote]

lets just say he isn't cheating, because he isn't, and it's perfectly legal no ifs, ands, or buts about it. how can a guy look like a cheater, much less be a cheater, using a legal club?
[/quote]


dude he is cheating he is walking the fence with this one we all know that. how the hell can someone as phil with his great short game need an advantage that's all im saying it seams maybe just maybe he dosent have that great of a short game and he needs all the advantage he can get. and o yea this is how baseball got screwed with steroids.... and we all know how that went if phil dose it it must be alright and we have to do it to keep up to win [u][i][b]"HE IS CHEATING THE GAME"[/b][/i][/u]

[hogans71]

[quote name='dj80d' date='29 January 2010 - 02:18 PM' timestamp='1264796330' post='2212463']
[b]lets just say he is cheating. within the lines it's legal[/b], but really shady. he can use them and so can anyone else, but no one wants to be know as a cheater, and right now phil is looking like a cheater.
[/quote]

You contradict yourself within 11 words of your post- its not cheating, its within the rules, case closed...

The funny thing is that P. Kostis has already questioned the effectiveness of these wedges during today's telecast...

[Jimmy Mac]

I actually think it's kind of refreshing to see players choosing equipment based on what performs best rather than who pays the most for them to use it.