Swing weight factors in relation to parts

[Stuart_G]

14 hours ago, ronw04 said:

But I'd love to know the "why".  Why can I put the ball where I want now

 

 

 

Lots of possible or potential reasons.

1) shorter playing length -  as the playing length gets longer it can amplify the effect of swing flaws and make it harder to compensate for them.

2) lighter swing weight -  this means lower club MOI and less resistance to your effort to rotate the club.  That can allow for better release timing - at least for you - lighter isn't always better.   It also can effect rhythm and tempo which can also influence release timing.

3) heavier shaft - shaft weight also plays a big part in rhythm and tempo and release timing and ability to properly sequence the body.   It can also potentially effect the swing plane.

 

There are more but those are the "big three."   e.g. different shaft stiffness profile can effect the swing in many ways for some people.

 

14 hours ago, ronw04 said:

and what options should I be looking at to getting back to using my driver as I am losing a few yards off the tee? (Shorter/different shaft, different head etc)

 

You should go back to the longer shaft and take some time to go through Howard's self fitting tutorial.   Many (most) "professional" fittings have a lot of short comings, especially when it comes to fitting for driver playing length and head weight.   Some don't even do a good job with shaft weight.   With this tutorial, all you need is some lead tape, some foot powder spray and a  bucket of balls at the range and you should be able to dial in the best playing length, shaft weight and head weight for your swing.

 

 

If you're still loosing distance after that - then there might be a problem with the head loft.  But you'd need launch monitor numbers for launch angle, spin, ball speed, club speed, etc....     And no any old data you have on that would be useless.  You'd need the data for your results after doing the tune-up

Edited July 14, 2022 by Stuart_G

[ronw04]

Thank you @Stuart_Gfor you post! 

 

I will do the driver fit you posted about this weekend. I suspect it's going to be a combination of issues (shaft too long, head too heavy) but we'll figure it out. 

 

my "fitting" was quite a basic one. All it was, was trying different drivers and maybe when I was getting closer moving the movable weight and seeing what worked. There was no mention of swing weight or shaft weight. 

 

one thing that gives me pause is the difference between the swing weight from the driver to the 3w shaft. With full acknowledgement that it's too light it isn't terribly far off and it's like 15 swing weights different 🤣. I'm not in same arena. 

 

but we'll get to work this weekend. 

thank you. 

[JD3]

Why do heavier shafts generally render heavier swingweight? Id think a lighter shaft would place more relative weight in the head and make for a heavier SW.

[Stuart_G]

33 minutes ago, JD3 said:

Why do heavier shafts generally render heavier swingweight? Id think a lighter shaft would place more relative weight in the head and make for a heavier SW.

 

Because the shaft balance point will always be on the head side of the swing weight fulcrum so shaft weight will always add to swing weight.   Swing weight is really the combination of how both the shaft weight and the head weight increase the rotational heft feel of the club.   Changes in head weight will increase the feel more than similar changes in shaft weight - but they both increase the feel.

 

Swing weight has nothing to do with the relative difference between head weight and shaft weight (or anything else).    Forget the fact that it's using balance to come up with a value.  it's never really been about balance.   You can't feel balance during the swing - it's a static property, not a dynamic one.  

 

Swing weight has always been intended as a tool to help match the MOI of club.  And any weight added on to the club will always add to the MOI regardless of where it's added.  Adding any mass to the club can never decrease the MOI of the club.

 

 

Edited July 19, 2022 by Stuart_G

[captwilks67]

Hello all!! Newer golfer here and trying to figure out shaft weight/flex profile for irons. Currently gaming modus 120 S in p790 but  thinking of going heavier based on some data I gathered at Golf Galaxy and the feel i got. 
 

basically learned that an x100 or a c taper x gave me the tightest dispersion among shafts, and then the c taper lite S. There is a 20g difference between the first two and the third tho, so I will include some data in this post as well. 
 

intwrestingly enough, I found the x shafts to also help me to close the face as a new golfer. I tended to pull a few shots as well. No shots were taken out to gather a full picture of how bad I am though 🤣. 
 

anyways, based on this data I don’t know where to go. I almost feel like an S400 or maybe the $ taper but it is hard to know without gathering the data fresh. 
 

red is x100 

first white with 103 ball speed is c taper x 

third white is c taper lite S 

 

Why is it that as a beginner a x shaft gives me tighter dispersion (relative to other shafts I’ve hit and my own inconsistency) 

[Stuart_G]

9 hours ago, captwilks67 said:

Hello all!! Newer golfer here and trying to figure out shaft weight/flex profile for irons. Currently gaming modus 120 S in p790 but  thinking of going heavier based on some data I gathered at Golf Galaxy and the feel i got. 
 

basically learned that an x100 or a c taper x gave me the tightest dispersion among shafts, and then the c taper lite S. There is a 20g difference between the first two and the third tho, so I will include some data in this post as well. 
 

intwrestingly enough, I found the x shafts to also help me to close the face as a new golfer. I tended to pull a few shots as well. No shots were taken out to gather a full picture of how bad I am though 🤣. 
 

anyways, based on this data I don’t know where to go. I almost feel like an S400 or maybe the $ taper but it is hard to know without gathering the data fresh. 
 

red is x100 

first white with 103 ball speed is c taper x 

third white is c taper lite S 

 

Why is it that as a beginner a x shaft gives me tighter dispersion (relative to other shafts I’ve hit and my own inconsistency)

 

Not the best place to ask the question.  You should really start a new thread.

[sammyjankis]

I recently purchased a set of Ping Eye 2+ BeCu irons with old Aldila HM-40 graphite shafts. Ping customer service says these were built with a C4 swing weight. 

 

I hit them horribly - they felt out of control and too light. I was digging massive divots. The only difference between my current irons (Ping i25, D0-D2 SW)and these Eye 2s is the swing weight. 

 

I noticed a lot of people recommending TT Lite (XL) shafts as a replacement for the original ZZ Lite shafts. If I simply remove the heads from their current shafts and attach them to TT Lite shafts, can I expect a swing weight closer to the original C9 swing weight (or even heavier, hopefully)? Or is there not a plug&play solution when it comes to swing weight and changing shafts?

 

Thanks in advance!

[Stuart_G]

10 hours ago, sammyjankis said:

 If I simply remove the heads from their current shafts and attach them to TT Lite shafts, can I expect a swing weight closer to the original C9 swing weight (or even heavier, hopefully)? Or is there not a plug&play solution when it comes to swing weight and changing shafts?

 

No, there is not.    More often than not, the designers manipulate the balance points such that the shafts are designed not to effect the swing weight very much even when the total shaft weight change.  So the "rule" about how shaft weight effects the balance point is really the most useless of all the rules. 

 

But that's more the case with modern shafts.  It's hard to say what the balance point might be for those old shafts - so difficult to predict what might happen to the swing weight.

 

Playing length and head weight generally play a much bigger role in the swing weight than the shaft influence.   So it's more likely that those are just a set of light heads.

 

And changing shafts just for the sake of changing swing weight is rarely a good idea.   If you have other reasons to change the shaft (poor fit for shaft weight or stiffness) than that's fine.  

 

But if all you want to do is increase the swing weight, you're better off just using lead tape or pulling the heads and adding tip weights.   The fact that they're graphite takes away the other option of lead/tungsten powder down the shaft.

 

 

Edited July 21, 2022 by Stuart_G

[arbitrage]

I currently have a 24 degree (5) Epic Super Hybrid playing at 40" with a AD DI 85S shaft and GP MCC+4 midsize grip. The stock length for the club is 39.625" and with the stock shaft is the AEROTECH STEELFIBER FC HYB GRAPHITE shaft which is 10g's lighter (75g?).  

 

My question is, if I buy 3 hybrid head (stock length 40.875") and just put in my existing shaft at 40" what will my swing weight be?  

 

I am currently playing Epic Forged 19's and my lowest iron is the 4 iron (18 degrees), playing at 39.5" (stock length), so the 1/2" increment would be great.

 

Thank you!

Edited August 2, 2022 by arbitrage

[Stuart_G]

32 minutes ago, arbitrage said:

My question is, if I buy 3 hybrid head (stock length 40.875") and just put in my existing shaft at 40" what will my swing weight be? 

 

There is no standard for hybrid head weights.   And, among other things, you need differences in shaft balance points as well as shaft weights.  These rules can't help you - too many unknowns.   So the ONLY way to get the answer is to put the shaft in (glue or just dry fit) and measure out the swing weight.  Either on a scale or with one of the online sw calculators.

 

[arbitrage]

30 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

 

There is no standard for hybrid head weights.   And, among other things, you need differences in shaft balance points as well as shaft weights.  These rules can't help you - too many unknowns.   So the ONLY way to get the answer is to put the shaft in (glue or just dry fit) and measure out the swing weight.  Either on a scale or with one of the online sw calculators.

 

Thank you, Stuart. I was trying to get a ballpark, I guess. It's closer to D0 it would be fine, but it's something like C6, then I would have to put in an extension. 

[Stuart_G]

30 minutes ago, arbitrage said:

Thank you, Stuart. I was trying to get a ballpark, I guess. It's closer to D0 it would be fine, but it's something like C6, then I would have to put in an extension. 

 

Playing length is probably the worst way to increase swing weight.  A good fit for playing length should never be sacrificed for the sake of swing weight.    If the head doesn't have a changeable weight (which many do with modern heads), stick to tip weights, lead tape, and/or hot melt.

[arbitrage]

1 hour ago, Stuart_G said:

 

Playing length is probably the worst way to increase swing weight.  A good fit for playing length should never be sacrificed for the sake of swing weight.    If the head doesn't have a changeable weight (which many do with modern heads), stick to tip weights, lead tape, and/or hot melt.

I just called Callaway customer service. When all is said an done, I would be going from D5.5 to D0.5, approximately.  Definitely playable without making any changes to the grip/length or head weight.

[krusher74]

On 9/22/2011 at 4:33 PM, acquadiice said:

what is the best brand lead tape for irons?

it all works fine, its more about cleaning the head with thinners etc and heating the lead tape so the glue is soft, once applied rub hard over the tape with a tee or spoon to really stick it on. 

[krusher74]

Quick hack I have used if you have a driver head weight that is to heavy and you cant find/buy a lighter one, drill a hole in the back of what you have should be able to get a 10g down to 5g etc

 

[Stuart_G]

1 minute ago, krusher74 said:

Quick hack I have used if you have a driver head weight that is to heavy and you cant find/buy a lighter one, drill a hole in the back of what you have should be able to get a 10g down to 5g etc

 

 

Except a driver with a hole in it is non-conforming.

[krusher74]

On 7/20/2022 at 4:47 AM, captwilks67 said:

Hello all!! Newer golfer here and trying to figure out shaft weight/flex profile for irons. Currently gaming modus 120 S in p790 but  thinking of going heavier based on some data I gathered at Golf Galaxy and the feel i got. 
 

basically learned that an x100 or a c taper x gave me the tightest dispersion among shafts, and then the c taper lite S. There is a 20g difference between the first two and the third tho, so I will include some data in this post as well. 
 

intwrestingly enough, I found the x shafts to also help me to close the face as a new golfer. I tended to pull a few shots as well. No shots were taken out to gather a full picture of how bad I am though 🤣. 
 

anyways, based on this data I don’t know where to go. I almost feel like an S400 or maybe the $ taper but it is hard to know without gathering the data fresh. 
 

red is x100 

first white with 103 ball speed is c taper x 

third white is c taper lite S 

 

Why is it that as a beginner a x shaft gives me tighter dispersion (relative to other shafts I’ve hit and my own inconsistency) 

With your smash factor of only 1.24 you are leaving free distance on the tee. maybe hitting high toe is killing it, try lower heal/center.  With a 1.35 smash you could get another 10 yards.  your hits to the right will also have an open face and a poor smash. 

 

[krusher74]

If it has not already been mentioned this is a good way of getting close for swing weight on testing clubs again each other http://www.leaderboard.com/SWINGWT.HTM

 

and here is a video validating its accuracy.

 

 

[bigblackdawg]

currently have pxg gen 4 w/ dg 105 stiff and 50g grip (swing weight d2 based on measurements and not a true swing weight measurement tool) planning to get modus 105 xs and same grip.

 

planning to buy some brass tip weights to achieve same swing weight. but was wondering if anyone has a rough estimate on how much weight to add or will i have to use lead tape?

 

thanks

[RobS]

On 9/7/2022 at 8:23 PM, bigblackdawg said:

currently have pxg gen 4 w/ dg 105 stiff and 50g grip (swing weight d2 based on measurements and not a true swing weight measurement tool) planning to get modus 105 xs and same grip.

 

planning to buy some brass tip weights to achieve same swing weight. but was wondering if anyone has a rough estimate on how much weight to add or will i have to use lead tape?

 

thanks

Modus 105X will be within 1 point of DG 105S.  You'd need 1g or 2g tip weights for the Modus to match up the SW to the old shafts.

 

[RobS]

On 8/10/2022 at 2:08 PM, Stuart_G said:

 

Except a driver with a hole in it is non-conforming.

I could be wrong but I think he was saying to drill weight out of the head weight (i.e. movable or fixed but removable weight) not the actual head itself.

 

[balata2]

I'm reshafting a set of fourteen tb-7 irons from modus 3 105 stiff to a lighter shaft, 950gh, which is 98 grams.  I know I will need to tip weight the new shaft,(same length at .5 inch long) to achieve the desired swingweight.  They came stock with D1.5 in the Modus 3 105 and I like D3 and added led tape to achieve that.  I don't care for the tip stiffness of the 105. My question is by adding more tip weight to 950gh to get the right swingweight, will that have a effect on how the iron feels and plays or loads?  I know its a softer shaft, Just wondered if I'm adding 6 or more grams to the tip if that's the way to go?

[Stuart_G]

5 hours ago, balata2 said:

I'm reshafting a set of fourteen tb-7 irons from modus 3 105 stiff to a lighter shaft, 950gh, which is 98 grams.  I know I will need to tip weight the new shaft,(same length at .5 inch long) to achieve the desired swingweight. 

 

How do you know that?   Did you actually test out the raw swing weight with he 950's?

 

The rule about how swing weight changes with shaft weight is useless - so forget it.  It assumes no change in the balance point and that ALWAYS changes.   The shaft designers know about swing weight and can choose to adjust the balance point to compensate for shaft weight changes.

 

So chances are the swing weight wont change much and you'll likely just need to use the same - or very similar amount of tip weight as you are currently using lead tape - or roughly 3-5 gm.

 

 

5 hours ago, balata2 said:

will that have a effect on how the iron feels and plays or loads?  I know its a softer shaft, Just wondered if I'm adding 6 or more grams to the tip if that's the way to go?

 

First of all, It's not the amount of added tip weight that determines how the shaft will play.  It's total head weight after adjusting.    So if you have heads that have a raw head weight that very light and you need to add a lot of tip weight to get normal swing weights - then the shaft wills still play as they were designed even though you used a lot of tip weights.

 

So basically D0 to D4 (with a 50 gm grip) at standard lengths means fairly normal head weights and no noticeable effect on the shaft performance.

 

7 gm above that standard head weight is what would give you the equivalent of soft stepping x1.   And that's a VERY subtle change in feel.   Most am's wouldn't even notice until we get to +10-12 gm of added head weight.    Which would equate to somewhere around D7-D9 for standard lengths and 50 gm grip.

 

[ahenderX]

I have not read this entire thread. Today was my first day at swing weighting. I have a quality scale and using a razor blade as my fulcrum point. Also using an online swing calculator. I tested this on a factory Cleveland wedge. This wedge has a factory rated swing weight of D5 +-1. Weighing the club, and finding the balance fulcrum point, I get a swing weight of D1. While I get 4 less swing weight points, the club feels fine. Never noticed anything odd. Just entering random measurements it seems a difference of 1/8" in fulcrum point distance changes the swing weight by 1 point. I include the Cleveland data as an example of what I am doing. 

 

I have never assembled a golf club. Bought a Malty TSW 54 degree wedge pack. It comes with everything to build a club. I had purchased it to have Golfworks assemble it but I did not fill out my order form as required and it was not assembled. Called them and got the tip trim specs and cut the tip as required. Overall length is the same as my Vokey 54, 35.25". I did not like the grip that came with the pack so I bought a Winn Grips Dry-Tac 2.0. It weighs 51 grams. The wedge head weight is ~10 grams lighter than a Vokey 54 head weight. I am replacing the Vokey 54.

 

I assembled the new club, let it cure overnight, then did the swing weighting. Yes, I now know this should have been done after swing weighting. The new club swing weight comes in at D1. It does not feel good and does feel light in the head. My thought is to change the Dry-Tac 2.0 grip to a Dry-Tac Lite which weighs 22 grams, a difference of 29 grams. If a decrease of 4 grams in grip weight equals +1 swing weight point, this would put me at D8. If this going to feel abnormal or should I look for a grip which weighs ~35 grams? 

[Stuart_G]

11 minutes ago, ahenderX said:

The wedge head weight is ~10 grams lighter than a Vokey 54 head weight.

 

The new club swing weight comes in at D1. It does not feel good and does feel light in the head. My thought is to change the Dry-Tac 2.0 grip to a Dry-Tac Lite which weighs 22 grams, a difference of 29 grams. If a decrease of 4 grams in grip weight equals +1 swing weight point, this would put me at D8. If this going to feel abnormal or should I look for a grip which weighs ~35 grams? 

 

Neither.  The problem is head weight and that's what you should fix.   Ideally you would have used a tip weight to make up the difference before gluing up the head to the shaft.

 

Despite what a scale might say, changing grip/butt weight is not a good or reliable way to increase the head weight feel.  Sometimes it can even make it worse since you're taking a club that's too light and making it even lighter.   The swing weight scale and concept was never intended to be used to manage butt side or grip weight (nor shaft weight for that matter).  It was only ever intended to manage head weight changes based on playing length changes.

 

Also, forget the values in this case.  Just get some lead tape, go to the range and add the tape to the head a few gm's at a time until the club feels good to you.   Then if you don't like the look of the tape,  If it's a steel shaft you can get some tungsten powder and cork and use that to replace the lead tape.   Or pull the head and add a tip weight based on how much tape was needed.

 

 

15 minutes ago, ahenderX said:

Bought a Malty TSW 54 degree wedge pack. It comes with everything to build a club. I had purchased it to have Golfworks assemble it but I did not fill out my order form as required and it was not assembled.

 

What shaft does that come with?   Shaft and shaft weight can make a big difference in what swing weight value will be a good fit.

 

[ahenderX]

1 hour ago, Stuart_G said:

 

Neither.  The problem is head weight and that's what you should fix.   Ideally you would have used a tip weight to make up the difference before gluing up the head to the shaft.

 

Despite what a scale might say, changing grip/butt weight is not a good or reliable way to increase the head weight feel.  Sometimes it can even make it worse since you're taking a club that's too light and making it even lighter.   The swing weight scale and concept was never intended to be used to manage butt side or grip weight (nor shaft weight for that matter).  It was only ever intended to manage head weight changes based on playing length changes.

 

Also, forget the values in this case.  Just get some lead tape, go to the range and add the tape to the head a few gm's at a time until the club feels good to you.   Then if you don't like the look of the tape,  If it's a steel shaft you can get some tungsten powder and cork and use that to replace the lead tape.   Or pull the head and add a tip weight based on how much tape was needed.

 

 

 

What shaft does that come with?   Shaft and shaft weight can make a big difference in what swing weight value will be a good fit.

 

Graphite Regular Mitsubishi Kuru Kage G2 75 gram. I added 11 grams of lead tape to the back of the head and it feels quite nice. Have a chipping mat on the front porch and hit a few balls. No complaints. Thanks for the tips.

Edited October 1, 2022 by ahenderX

[Crn50]

My pet hate is buying a set of irons minus the GAP and Sand wedges, yeah I know it's fashionable to have specific wedges from someone else. But to me it's Money grabbing anyway I've bought a few GAP Sand wedges trying to find something to suit me, I bought Mizuno Zoid Comp 9-P-F-S with a MX15 Sandiron and the mx15 is ok but the Zoid Sandiron has some good bite and stopped much quicker than and other Sandiron I've ever had. Can I ask @Stuart_G if you know what the specs are for there irons, I saw online info for the EZComp  and is that the same as the Comp? I hit the 4 irons and there about 10 metres shorter so wonder what the loft and lie should be and how much can I lower the loft given the age they are? Appreciate your comments thanks...

[krusher74]

On 10/1/2022 at 3:31 PM, ahenderX said:

I have not read this entire thread. Today was my first day at swing weighting. I have a quality scale and using a razor blade as my fulcrum point. Also using an online swing calculator. I tested this on a factory Cleveland wedge. This wedge has a factory rated swing weight of D5 +-1. Weighing the club, and finding the balance fulcrum point, I get a swing weight of D1. While I get 4 less swing weight points, the club feels fine. Never noticed anything odd. Just entering random measurements it seems a difference of 1/8" in fulcrum point distance changes the swing weight by 1 point. I include the Cleveland data as an example of what I am doing. 

 

I have never assembled a golf club. Bought a Malty TSW 54 degree wedge pack. It comes with everything to build a club. I had purchased it to have Golfworks assemble it but I did not fill out my order form as required and it was not assembled. Called them and got the tip trim specs and cut the tip as required. Overall length is the same as my Vokey 54, 35.25". I did not like the grip that came with the pack so I bought a Winn Grips Dry-Tac 2.0. It weighs 51 grams. The wedge head weight is ~10 grams lighter than a Vokey 54 head weight. I am replacing the Vokey 54.

 

I assembled the new club, let it cure overnight, then did the swing weighting. Yes, I now know this should have been done after swing weighting. The new club swing weight comes in at D1. It does not feel good and does feel light in the head. My thought is to change the Dry-Tac 2.0 grip to a Dry-Tac Lite which weighs 22 grams, a difference of 29 grams. If a decrease of 4 grams in grip weight equals +1 swing weight point, this would put me at D8. If this going to feel abnormal or should I look for a grip which weighs ~35 grams? 

 

[krusher74]

I have been using the same calulator and even after one of the golf youtubers testing it and showing it was accurate compaired to his swing weight scale when i built a driver at D2 when i was at a golf shop i had them try it on their scale and they said it was d4/5.

 

now all i really trust it for is if i have club i like and that calc says it is d2 i copy that swing weight. it may not in reality be d2 but i know its that same as a club i already like. 

 

if you have old grip cut part of it away till its 35/25gram i and see how it feels. 

[Stuart_G]

11 minutes ago, krusher74 said:

now all i really trust it for is if i have club i like and that calc says it is d2 i copy that swing weight. it may not in reality be d2 but i know its that same as a club i already like. 

 

That's a good approach as long as you can get consistent and repeatable results with whatever method you use.

 

11 minutes ago, krusher74 said:

if you have old grip cut part of it away till its 35/25gram i and see how it feels. 

 

No, it's generally not a good idea to try and manipulate swing weight with butt/grip side weight changes.