Swing weight factors in relation to parts

[shaolingolfer]

I have a 50, 54, 58 Taylor Made MG2 wedge that I bought originally with 115 g steel shaft,  with my finger issue I changed to all graphite shaft in my clubs.  Swap out the steel shaft into KBS TGI 95 gram graphite shaft, clubs are bended to 2 degree flat and they are all the same length of the gap wedge.  I have Align MCC +4 grip which is approx. 65 gram which is on the heavy size.  

 

I have problem hitting them decent and I am a 8 hdcp, check the swing weight, they are D6 and my current iron set is D1 with 80 gram TGI 80.  I understand overlength, flatter lie angle, lighter shaft, all make the swing weight heavier.

 

I am thinking a heavier grip like Jumbomax, add lead tape to under the grip or find a club maker to grind or drill some weight off the head.  Or should I start from scratch?

 

[Stuart_G]

16 hours ago, shaolingolfer said:

I have a 50, 54, 58 Taylor Made MG2 wedge that I bought originally with 115 g steel shaft,  with my finger issue I changed to all graphite shaft in my clubs.  Swap out the steel shaft into KBS TGI 95 gram graphite shaft, clubs are bended to 2 degree flat and they are all the same length of the gap wedge.  I have Align MCC +4 grip which is approx. 65 gram which is on the heavy size.  

 

I have problem hitting them decent and I am a 8 hdcp, check the swing weight, they are D6 and my current iron set is D1 with 80 gram TGI 80.  I understand overlength, flatter lie angle, lighter shaft, all make the swing weight heavier.

 

lighter shaft does not make the SW heavier.  It's more commonly the opposite but depends as much on the shaft balance point as the shaft weight.

 

Were they 2* flat and the same length as the gap wedge and the same grip  when they had the 115 gm shafts in them?    Did you check the swing weight with the heavier shafts before reshafting?    Knowing what about the build changed during the reshaft is actually more important than knowing the final build specs.

 

 

Quote

I am thinking a heavier grip like Jumbomax, add lead tape to under the grip or find a club maker to grind or drill some weight off the head.  Or should I start from scratch?

 

 

When you try to hit them, how do they actually feel?

 

If they do feel too head heavy, adding more weight is not typically going to be the best solution.   Grip weight is never a good way to try to manipulate swing weight.

 

On the other hand, if the problem is the drop in static weight (from going from the 115 gm shafts to the 95 gm shafts - although more like 85 gm after cutting down) then adding weight to the butt might help.  But as a way to manage the static weight, not swing weight.  Although a better way to check if the shaft weight is the problem is to add the lead tape to the shaft about 4-5" below the bottom of the grip.   Add it in 5 gm to 10 gm increments on the range while testing.

Edited June 26, 2021 by Stuart_G

[shaolingolfer]

Stuart, thanks for your answer.

 

When I hit them, they are just heavy, hard to swing faster and I have hard time controlling the stike point.  The clubs originally come with steel shaft and I bend it to 2 degree flat in the beggining and they are approx. D3.

 

In regard to the lighter shaft have lighter swing weight, that's what I use to believe too but now after I have read all the explanation on the internet, I believe in the opposite now.  

 

I took advice from my usually trusted club fitter and just cut all 3 wedges half inch short and put in MCC plus 4 standard size grip.  What amazed me is they are now D1.5 gap wedge, D3 sand wedge and D4  Lob wedge.  However I seems to hit them a  lot better and they feel better in my hand so far, might be the midsize grip don't help either.

 

Club building is a lot harder than I thought, lol.

[Stuart_G]

41 minutes ago, shaolingolfer said:

In regard to the lighter shaft have lighter swing weight, that's what I use to believe too but now after I have read all the explanation on the internet, I believe in the opposite now.  

 

 

You didn't read a very good explanation then.    It's pretty simple physics.  The swing weight fulcrum is 14" from the butt end of the club.  Shaft c.g. is much further down the shaft than that fulcrum - on the head side of the fulcrum.   IF the balance point stays the same, the swing weight value will change in the same direction of the shaft weight.    Unfortunately, the balance point rarely stays the same.  In fact, shaft designers frequently try to move the balance point to to help get reasonable swing weights despite the change in static weight.   So the only way to really tell what will happen after changing shafts is to put it on a swing weight scale and see what it reads.

 

However, swing weight value and head weight feel are not always the same thing (actually frequently are not) especially in the context of a static weight change.    Quite frankly everyone is going to be a bit different in how the head weight feel might change.  For some, it may seem lighter, for some it may seem heavier.   The bottom line is that shaft weight changes and grip weight changes are not something that the swing weight concept and scale were every meant or intended to handle.   After such a change, any old swing weight value should be thrown out the the person should start from scratch to find the best head weight for the new combination of grip/shaft.

 

Going shorter can help reduce the head weight feel - as long as you don't go past the point were the club is too short to manage for the players given size (height/arm length), posture, and mechanics.

 

Changing grip weight is always a bad idea to try and manage head weight feel.   As mentioned above, it can have a very unpredictable effect on the head weight feel,  it has more of an effect on the static weight (which typically isn't something you want to change after being fit to a good shaft weight), and changing grip weight usually means messing with the grip size which is also usually a bad idea after being fit for that size.   

 

Butt weights and true counterbalancing might help or might not.  Only trial and error can answer that question - but that should always be done after everything else has been fit properly (grip size, playing length, shaft weight, and head weight).

 

 

 

 

[SCOTT4099]

Sorry if already asked but what is a good general middle ground swingweight for a driver at 45 inches? 

 

I know results may differ but the driver i bought is D-0.5 right now. I just bought some lead tape strips that are about 3 grams per precut slice.
 

Thanks

[Stuart_G]

9 hours ago, SCOTT4099 said:

Sorry if already asked but what is a good general middle ground swingweight for a driver at 45 inches? 

 

I know results may differ but the driver i bought is D-0.5 right now. I just bought some lead tape strips that are about 3 grams per precut slice.
 

Thanks

 

There is no value that's good for everyone.  Just go to the range and add the lead strips one at a time until you can get the best feel and results for you.

[RCGA]

Is there any difference in swing weight perception(?) between cutting a club down 1" vs choking down 1" 

 

I have a 43" 3-wood but have almost always played my 3/4 woods at around 41.75". 

[Stuart_G]

1 hour ago, RCGA said:

Is there any difference in swing weight perception(?) between cutting a club down 1" vs choking down 1" 

 

I have a 43" 3-wood but have almost always played my 3/4 woods at around 41.75". 

 

No, no difference in the swing weight feel.  The main difference is the grip size gets a bit smaller.  For some (small percentage of players) that might have an effect, especially if the grip might already be a bit on the small size to begin with (never really been fit for grip size).

 

Edited July 19, 2021 by Stuart_G

[Banker]

I'm fitting a Rogue white 130 into my G425 LST head.  I cut the shaft to 44" so when installed it's now 45".  It's E2 without a grip.  I'm going to put on a lamkin crossline plus which is 53g.  I want the club to be D3 or D4.

 

What does a 53g grip do to the SW?  Say if I were to grip it now at it's current length?  I'm guessing 2 or 3 points at most, so from E2 without a grip to maybe D8 with? 

 

Which is kind of strange to me because these stock rogue white's are playing 45.25 and Ping is calling them D4.  I already switched the 17g backweight for a 14g and would hesitate to move any lighter because I don't want to screw with the MOI which is the purpose of the heavy head in the first place.

 

edit: to book end this post, i chopped another 1/4” to be safe and put the grip on, it’s D4 now at 44.75 & the 14gr weight. Perfect 

Edited July 30, 2021 by Banker

[AndrewPlunkettPGA]

As a club fitter, I love getting into swingewight with golfers!! Such a huge aspect that gets overlooked way too often.

[Bulldogs2412]

I know the answer is get fitted but maybe you can help me understand something. Two sets of clubs. One with a 120g shaft and one with a 105g shaft both at D2 swing weight. How different are these going to swing? I'm assuming the head of the 105g shaft is heavier than the other? 

[Stuart_G]

9 hours ago, Bulldogs2412 said:

I know the answer is get fitted but maybe you can help me understand something. Two sets of clubs. One with a 120g shaft and one with a 105g shaft both at D2 swing weight. How different are these going to swing?

 

Depends on who is swinging them.   How different they feel depends on the sensitivities of the individual swinging them.    How different they might swing will depend on how the person swinging them responds to the differences in how they feel.   If it were a robot swinging them, they'd swing exactly the same.  So with people, it's completely subjective.

 

 

9 hours ago, Bulldogs2412 said:

I'm assuming the head of the 105g shaft is heavier than the other? 

 

Don't assume anything.  The head weights may be the same, the one with the lighter shaft may be heavier

or it may be lighter.  It depends on:

 

1) the relative balance point of the two shafts.  Lighter shafts tend to have lower balance points and typically don't need much head weight adjustment.   Head weights don't really need to vary that much as the shaft weight changes even if one is trying to match the swing weight.

 

and

 

2) whether or not the individual doing the build was even paying attention to swing weight.   This is a crap shoot - even if the clubs came out of one of the OEM factories.

 

And that's assuming everything else is the same - playing length, head model, and grip.

 

[rooski]

Figured I'd ask a swing weight question here rather than starting a thread. When I re-shafted my driver I had it cut shorter than standard, and have been waiting ~3 weeks or so for a replacement weight (FedEx lost the first one so Cobra had to send another).

 

Going by an online calculator, my current driver swingweight is super messed up and is like C3 or C4. When I get the replacement weight it should bump up to D3.

 

Other than a feel problem, I'm curious what common issues I could be running into if my driver SW is way too light just to see if it matches up with my experience

[Fairway14]

9 minutes ago, rooski said:

 

 

Other than a feel problem, I'm curious what common issues I could be running into if my driver SW is way too light just to see if it matches up with my experience

 

Swing weight is a measurement of a golf club's balance.  At C5 swing weight most players would find feels "out of balance" when they swing it.

An out of balance golf club, for example C5 or E5, most players would find difficult to swing/square at impact. Usually  golf clubs have a swing weight within the range of C9 to D5, because most players find that range "feels well balanced" when the club is swung.

[Stuart_G]

14 hours ago, rooski said:

Other than a feel problem, I'm curious what common issues I could be running into if my driver SW is way too light just to see if it matches up with my experience

 

Unfortunately, that's way too subjective to answer.  Everyone can/will be a bit different in how they are effected when the swing weight gets too light. (or really club MOI which is what swing weight was designed to help match).    Head weight feel can be used by players to provide feedback to what the club is doing in the swing and help control the swing.   So it can potentially effect a lot of things.  Rhythm, tempo, swing plane control, proper sequencing of the body (especially in transition), club head speed, face impact location and consistency, face control and shot shape control, general dispersion etc..   Or it's even possible that nothing may happen since some can maintain a consistent swing over a wide range of club feels.

 

The important thing to realize is that when shortening the driver, you don't necessarily want to maintain the same swing weight.  Swing weight is not an absolute measure of feel so "getting the swing weight back" does not mean getting back the same weight feel after such a big change.   And that's assuming you were actually fit for head weight before the length change (which is extremely rare) instead of just settling for whatever stock swing weight the club was built to.    People have much better luck with the results after taking the time to properly dial in the head weight then they do just automatically jumping back to the same swing weight based on "calculations" and swing weight "rules" (which are frequently mis-used in ways that are not an accurate representation of what really happened to the swing weight).

 

[rooski]

Thanks for your insight @Stuart_G. I'm not trying to go back to whatever the stock SW is, I'm not even sure what it was. I've just found the head much too light and I feel like it is really affecting my timing.

[Stuart_G]

3 hours ago, rooski said:

Thanks for your insight @Stuart_G. I'm not trying to go back to whatever the stock SW is, I'm not even sure what it was. I've just found the head much too light and I feel like it is really affecting my timing.

 

It probably was.  But to find the best weight, it's better to work up in head weight incrementally - on the range testing balls as you add a little weight each time (~2 gm increments).   Although the first step can be a little bigger,  maybe 6-8 gm.

[sm_watts]

Can I ask a putter question?  I just bought a putter that is 35" long and I love the look and feel of it, but the head feels too heavy for me.  I generally play my putters at 34".  If I cut an inch off the butt end of the putter, how much lighter will it make the head feel?

[Stuart_G]

9 hours ago, sm_watts said:

Can I ask a putter question?  I just bought a putter that is 35" long and I love the look and feel of it, but the head feels too heavy for me.  I generally play my putters at 34".  If I cut an inch off the butt end of the putter, how much lighter will it make the head feel?

 

Typically not much (if any) - but everyone is different so just choke up to find out.   Swing weight is not a good concept to apply to putters.  Not enough actual rotation in the dynamics for club MOI to be much of a factor.  So the distance between the grip and the head weight isn't nearly as influential with the putter as it is with full swing clubs.

 

Edited September 17, 2021 by Stuart_G

[iknowbagu]

Apologies if this has been answered somewhere upthread but 22 pages is a lot to try and sift through.

 

I'm looking to add a little head weight to my irons.  Is the 2g = 1 SW point for head weight fairly consistent up and down the set or would the 2 iron be more like 1.5g and the 9 iron be 3g because of the differences in stock head weight? 

 

I'm not so OCD that I'm going to sweat every club being the same swing weight down to three decimal places.  Just looking to get them all in the ballpark and then maybe micro-adjust from there based on how they feel.

[Stuart_G]

 

Page 18

 

[RCGA]

Instead of buying (relatively) expensive tip weights, can I just roll up some lead tape and epoxy it inside the shaft?

 

I want to re-shaft a set of irons but don't want to buy multiple tip weights that are sold by the dozen. 

[turles20]

On 10/5/2021 at 12:54 PM, RCGA said:

Instead of buying (relatively) expensive tip weights, can I just roll up some lead tape and epoxy it inside the shaft?

 

I want to re-shaft a set of irons but don't want to buy multiple tip weights that are sold by the dozen. 

 Using lead tape could work, but if you have to use a lot I could see the possibility of getting an air lock when installing the heads.

 

I just bought lead tip weights from Value Golf and they were $0.29 each and came in 3,5,7 gram weights ($7.95 flat rate shipping). Or just buy a dozen of the heaviest tip weights and cut/grind them to get them to the weight you need.

[Nevek]

Do OEMs currently still use different iron weight inserts to compensate for different shaft weights or do all iron heads have the same weight?

[HSTNGolfer]

On 10/10/2021 at 2:16 PM, Nevek said:

Do OEMs currently still use different iron weight inserts to compensate for different shaft weights or do all iron heads have the same weight?

Typical head weight tolerance is +/-3g, so most OEMs need to add tip weights to lighter heads to get swingweight closer to specs. Quality clubmakers will also drill out excess weight from bottom of hosel to get 7g increments between head weights across the set.

 

Shaft weight tolerance is often of the order of +/-1.5g. OEMs usually just build to swingweight for the whole club, so shaft and head weight variations are lumped together.

 

[mantan]

Hopefully a very simple question.

 

I bought a PING G425 Max driver from someone who took a 1/2 inch of the stock shaft. If I understand correctly, it has lost 3SW points that I can add by adding 3 grams of headweight.  They sell replacements for the 26 gram tungsten weight that's used in the tuning port. So if I replace that with a 32 gram weight, the SW back to D3.

 

Is that accurate?

[JimmyC59]

46 minutes ago, mantan said:

Hopefully a very simple question.

 

I bought a PING G425 Max driver from someone who took a 1/2 inch of the stock shaft. If I understand correctly, it has lost 3SW points that I can add by adding 3 grams of headweight.  They sell replacements for the 26 gram tungsten weight that's used in the tuning port. So if I replace that with a 32 gram weight, the SW back to D3.

 

Is that accurate?

You would need to add approximately 6 grams of weight to the clubhead to compensate for the 3 SW point loss. You mentioned adding 3 grams initially then 6 grams at the end of your post

6 grams is correct.

 

32 gram weight should get you where you need to be.

[Stuart_G]

40 minutes ago, mantan said:

Hopefully a very simple question.

 

I bought a PING G425 Max driver from someone who took a 1/2 inch of the stock shaft. If I understand correctly, it has lost 3SW points that I can add by adding 3 grams of headweight.  They sell replacements for the 26 gram tungsten weight that's used in the tuning port. So if I replace that with a 32 gram weight, the SW back to D3.

 

Is that accurate?

 

It's in the rough ballpark.    It's more like 1.6 or 1.7 gm per SW pt for a driver.

 

But the real important part is that you may not really want to get it back to D3.  After changing length, the same swing weight value does not mean you'll get the same head weight feel.   That's something that really needs to be determined dynamically, through testing.

[BirdieBob]

[RCGA]

Is there anyway to calibrate my GolfWorks economy sw scale? Like, is my D1 reading actually D1? 

 

The scale is just on with a sticker which is obviously prone to placement error.