Least favorite design feature on a golf hole.

[isaacbm]

[quote name='hitsalittle' timestamp='1304304645' post='3200948']
Another one I hate is the tee on a mountain, green in the valley par 3 - there's one at Weaver Ridge in Peoria, IL, that is 230 from the tips, and maybe100 yards downhill. Play it in the wind and you're absolutely just guessing. The weird part is that I make a lot of 3's there, but I always feel like I got lucky with club selection...I've hit everything from 3 wood (seriously into the wind) to 8 iron (pin in front, down wind).


[/quote]

I hear you man! We have one on our course that's 242 with about a 70 foot drop. There's water short and right and ob left. I've never played a great 220 or longer par 3. Just because a hole's long doesn't make it good. A good par 3 is where 2 is hard to make but you'll probably leave with a 4 if you screw up. It's really easy for a scratch to make 6 on this hole. Oh wait, I made 6 today!!

[italianstallion]

My absolute biggest pet peeve are "circus" golf holes. Case in point, #12 at my home course. Its a 340 yard par 4.

 

Here's a look from the tee. The bright green line represents the green. The green has two massive trees back to back (looks like one tree) exactly 12 yards from the front edge of the green. the green is 16 yards deep and then there is falloff over the green into a hazard. What this picture doesn't show is the drop in the fairway elevation starting 175 yards out. So while the trees are only 80 feet tall, an extra 30 feet is added because of difference in elevation between 150 and 50 yards out.

 

 

If you hit a straight drive, your next shot will play from directly behind this tree. The white line below indicates where a 275 yard straight drive would end up.

 

 

So your options are: A) lay up to 175 yards and try and hoist something over the tree that at its apex will literally drop out of the sky (not possible) B) Hit a driver out to the right towards the woods give yourself a sloping lie from thick rough, or C) hit it directly behind the tree and try and scramble for par.

[adamjstl]

I'm a fairly long hitter (average 290 or so). I played an Arnold Palmer course on Hilton Head Island (Crescent Pointe), and there were several holes (notably a couple of the par 5's) where if you really smoke a driver down the middle, you'll go too far, into the junk. I'm not talking about driving through a dogleg, these are actually straight holes. I just find that type of hole very annoying- a par 5 where you can't hit driver. I've played a couple other Palmer courses, and that seems to be a common theme. On a different note, I remember playing a course where, on a par 5, there were a few boulders in the middle of the fairway, about where a good drive would end up. I'm sorry, but what sense does it make to get punished for hitting a long, straight drive??

 

It is a Palmer thing. My home course has back-to-back par-5s with big rough patches at 310 yards out. If you hit a good drive downwind, your reward is hitting out of the thickest rough on the course, when you should be reaching in two.

[TravelingGolfSticks]

I'm a fairly long hitter (average 290 or so). I played an Arnold Palmer course on Hilton Head Island (Crescent Pointe), and there were several holes (notably a couple of the par 5's) where if you really smoke a driver down the middle, you'll go too far, into the junk. I'm not talking about driving through a dogleg, these are actually straight holes. I just find that type of hole very annoying- a par 5 where you can't hit driver. I've played a couple other Palmer courses, and that seems to be a common theme. On a different note, I remember playing a course where, on a par 5, there were a few boulders in the middle of the fairway, about where a good drive would end up. I'm sorry, but what sense does it make to get punished for hitting a long, straight drive??

 

It is a Palmer thing. My home course has back-to-back par-5s with big rough patches at 310 yards out. If you hit a good drive downwind, your reward is hitting out of the thickest rough on the course, when you should be reaching in two.

 

My home course has really annying par 5's. I typically like them and can score better on them. You can go for them in 2 but the risk is way more than the reward.

 

#5 On the first one you can hit it about 250, then have a 210ish shot to a green with a front that severely slopes down to water. Go long, and you're OB. The lay up shot is over water to a peninsula before you go over water again to the green.

 

 

#9 The second one, is a 260ish lay up before you dog leg almost 90. The lay up is over water to a bigger peninsula before the water juts back in before the green halfway. If you hit a great tee shot, it's again 210ish to the green, water right and behind, too far left is OB. I've lately wanted to try to hit a hook with my driver and try to hit the peninsula but maybe on a different day.

 

# 12 The third one you can bomb away but it's tight. Left is water, right is OB. For whatever reason, this hole is my arch nemesis at this course. It's a long par 5 so a good drive will leave 230ish to the peninsula green. Water left and behind, and not much room before going OB right. All slopes to the water.

 

#16 The last one is my favorite at this course for obvious reasons. Another 260ish tee shot will leave you from 200-220 small dog leg right depending on what side of the fairway you are on. Right you will be in a massive bunker, left is OK but again, too far and it's OB. The green has no water around it and room to miss a little on all sides. I've blasted my drive into the water, dropped, and able to hit the green. May be while I like it.

 

 

Either way, you better hit a perfect shot on 3 of 4 of them to get there in 2. And if you are wondering, we have water on 17 of 18 holes, with 10 of them having water near the green. I used to be a west Texas blaster but have learned to enjoy shot making golf. It has helped when I play other courses.

[ConcentricDimples]

Here is what irks me:

 

Decorative bunkers that will never be hit into by a pro, and serve as a penal reservoir for weekend warriors. See Whistling Straights. I bet some of those bunkers have never seen a golf ball.

 

Old-school country clubs that have kept their steep back to front greens, but now mow to a 12 stimp. It is unplayable.

 

Overgrown hardwood trees so big that parts of the fairway are basically a hazard because advancing the ball is IMPOSSIBLE. My home course in high school was this way.

 

"Modern" designs in the northern US. Just no. Many are basically what southern resort courses used to be, and it is just a terrible fit for the climate and countryside.

[naws-golfer]

bunkers in the rough, 15 yds off of the fairway

 

wall to wall grass, native grass/ native areas reduce cost, and increase visual pleasure (think pinehurst #2 before the redesign)

 

OB when a hole slopes to one side of the fairway, make it a red stake, assuming its not a property line.

[smashdn]

A "good" drive that runs out of fairway or through the fairway is not a "good" drive. You hit the ball well but played a bad shot.

 

Your reward for being a long driver on a forced lay up hole is that you can now hit an iron and play to the correct distance while the other guys are hitting woods or driver.

 

A blind hazard is only blind once.

 

Trees don't belong on a golf course.

 

My design pet-peeve is a risk along the line of play with no reward.

 

As an example:

 

From the tee box you can see the bunker cluster on the right hand side of the hole but not what is beyond. The fairway bends with the water from left to right around to the green on the other side of the lake. You would think that by carrying those bunkers you would be rewarded with a nice downhill, power slot roll to the bottom fairway. Instead you are rewarded with a bounce off the cart path into the rough to a nice hanging lie.

 

[naws-golfer]

^ this is a bad golf hole

[YoungGun382]

I play a course regularly where the par 3s are all about the same distance, from 145-160. I mean come on, I don't want to hit 8 iron on all 4 holes just because the deisgner got lazy, there is plenty of room to move them back or forward. I usually end up playing 2 of them from different tees just to mix it up as they are boring.

 

I agree 100%!!! I feel like you should have to hit a different club on each par 3 at a given course. It seems like most courses I play have three par 3s that are 175-190 yards long.

[TravelingGolfSticks]

I play a course regularly where the par 3s are all about the same distance, from 145-160. I mean come on, I don't want to hit 8 iron on all 4 holes just because the deisgner got lazy, there is plenty of room to move them back or forward. I usually end up playing 2 of them from different tees just to mix it up as they are boring.

 

I agree 100%!!! I feel like you should have to hit a different club on each par 3 at a given course. It seems like most courses I play have three par 3s that are 175-190 yards long.

 

I agree. We have two that play 140-155 depending on pin placement and it gets annoying when the pins are about the same distance. Now, the other two are much different with one playing 200-215 over water. Not fun on a bad day.

[MKappas]

1. Forced layups

2. Sloped fairways in the landing spots that throw your great drive into the rough

3. Mini par 3s (100 yards or less)

[One_Putt_Blunder]

Agree about the forced layup part, Troon North has a long par 4 at 495 yards, it used to be a par 5. It is downhill and there is a desert wash cutting through the fairway at about 290ish off the tee tips 250 or so from the one ups. More often than not Im forced to play 3wood or hybrid off the tee and leave a much longer second shot into the green.

 

Couple other ones I am not fond of

 

1: Converted par 5's into par 4's Most will have greens that were designed to have wedges hit into them and now that they are par 4's you are hitting long iron/hybrid into them.

2: Island greens

3: Trees that have matured and have changed the design aspect of a hole.

 

6 years later I actually still agree with what I said except island greens are number 1 and the laziest and dumbest idea to ever hit golf course design.

[SilverBullets]

3 things for me:

 

1 - Forced layup on a long par 5 for average hitters... I am not talking about the guys who hit it 285-300 having to layup because there is something that crosses the fairway at 290. I'm talking about par 5's where you can only hit it 220 or so off the tee because there is crap at 230. It's a stupid gimmick that makes the game too hard for average golfers and takes up too much time.

 

2 - Super long holes that don't fit with the general length of the tees you are playing respective to the rest of the course. 2 prime examples of courses I have logged a lot of rounds at are Southern Dunes in Arizona and Longaberger in Ohio. At southern dunes the tees I play are 6900 yards. This course has everything from a potentially driveable Par 4, a couple of reachable par 5s, mixed in with some longer par 4s and 5's. That's all great. But then there is the Par 3 5th hole. From the Gold tees (the 6900, 1 up tees) it plays 217 to the middle with the potential to play 235 due to a the length of the green. Wind also tends to be in the face on this hole. From the back tees it's 245 with potential to play 260ish. It's kind of ridiculous and is totally out of place on a course which has a 290 yard par 4. The other par 3's are under 175 yards.

 

At longeberger the 18th hole drives me crazy. That's another phenomenal golf course. Except for #18. Again, from the tees which are 6650 yards, the 18th hole is an uphill Par 4 which plays anywhere from 435 to 460. At 435 it isn't that bad... except for one fact,,, Unless you carry it 265-270, you are landing the ball on a severe upslope which means you will get 0 roll and at times the ball will even come backwards. The hole also ALWAYS plays directly into the wind and the tee box makes it completely exposed to the wind. I hit the ball longish (280 or so) and never had less than 5 iron into that green. Most of the time I play it, I end up having to hit a 5 wood into the par 4 green. I played the tips once and couldn't even attempt to reach the green in 2. That's all fine and dandy, except for the fact that 2 holes earlier in the round there is a 480 par 5 which always plays down wind. One round we played, the tees were up on the Par 5 making it play about 460 and the tees were back on #18 and it played 465. It's just stupid. I have enough length where long holes generally aren't a problem... but having one hole on a course that plays substantially longer than anything else always just feels out of place and dumb.

 

3. Holes where you are hitting a blind spot (fairway or green) and there is no way of knowing if the group in front of you is done playing or not. It's downright dangerous and borderline negligent. It's maybe not a design flaw as much as a management issue but either way it's annoying. I have played courses where they have a bell you ring when youre done. Or the GPS carts show you where the carts in front of you are. But courses where there is nothing but guess work are absolutely ridiculous.

[adamjstl]

3 things for me:

 

1 - Forced layup on a long par 5 for average hitters... I am not talking about the guys who hit it 285-300 having to layup because there is something that crosses the fairway at 290. I'm talking about par 5's where you can only hit it 220 or so off the tee because there is crap at 230. It's a stupid gimmick that makes the game too hard for average golfers and takes up too much time.

 

2 - Super long holes that don't fit with the general length of the tees you are playing respective to the rest of the course. 2 prime examples of courses I have logged a lot of rounds at are Southern Dunes in Arizona and Longaberger in Ohio. At southern dunes the tees I play are 6900 yards. This course has everything from a potentially driveable Par 4, a couple of reachable par 5s, mixed in with some longer par 4s and 5's. That's all great. But then there is the Par 3 5th hole. From the Gold tees (the 6900, 1 up tees) it plays 217 to the middle with the potential to play 235 due to a the length of the green. Wind also tends to be in the face on this hole. From the back tees it's 245 with potential to play 260ish. It's kind of ridiculous and is totally out of place on a course which has a 290 yard par 4. The other par 3's are under 175 yards.

 

At longeberger the 18th hole drives me crazy. That's another phenomenal golf course. Except for #18. Again, from the tees which are 6650 yards, the 18th hole is an uphill Par 4 which plays anywhere from 435 to 460. At 435 it isn't that bad... except for one fact,,, Unless you carry it 265-270, you are landing the ball on a severe upslope which means you will get 0 roll and at times the ball will even come backwards. The hole also ALWAYS plays directly into the wind and the tee box makes it completely exposed to the wind. I hit the ball longish (280 or so) and never had less than 5 iron into that green. Most of the time I play it, I end up having to hit a 5 wood into the par 4 green. I played the tips once and couldn't even attempt to reach the green in 2. That's all fine and dandy, except for the fact that 2 holes earlier in the round there is a 480 par 5 which always plays down wind. One round we played, the tees were up on the Par 5 making it play about 460 and the tees were back on #18 and it played 465. It's just stupid. I have enough length where long holes generally aren't a problem... but having one hole on a course that plays substantially longer than anything else always just feels out of place and dumb.

 

3. Holes where you are hitting a blind spot (fairway or green) and there is no way of knowing if the group in front of you is done playing or not. It's downright dangerous and borderline negligent. It's maybe not a design flaw as much as a management issue but either way it's annoying. I have played courses where they have a bell you ring when youre done. Or the GPS carts show you where the carts in front of you are. But courses where there is nothing but guess work are absolutely ridiculous.

 

Agree on the last point. It's asking for trouble, either in a fight when someone gets hit into or slow play.

[toddnt]

Bunker in center of green!

[SilverBullets]

Bunker in center of green!

 

This actually brings another thought for me... I hate when you are the one green but don't have a line to putt without going through rough.. I can't take fringe.. that's fine... but I feel all balls on the green should be able to be putt.

[One_Putt_Blunder]

3 things for me:

 

1 - Forced layup on a long par 5 for average hitters... I am not talking about the guys who hit it 285-300 having to layup because there is something that crosses the fairway at 290. I'm talking about par 5's where you can only hit it 220 or so off the tee because there is crap at 230. It's a stupid gimmick that makes the game too hard for average golfers and takes up too much time.

 

2 - Super long holes that don't fit with the general length of the tees you are playing respective to the rest of the course. 2 prime examples of courses I have logged a lot of rounds at are Southern Dunes in Arizona and Longaberger in Ohio. At southern dunes the tees I play are 6900 yards. This course has everything from a potentially driveable Par 4, a couple of reachable par 5s, mixed in with some longer par 4s and 5's. That's all great. But then there is the Par 3 5th hole. From the Gold tees (the 6900, 1 up tees) it plays 217 to the middle with the potential to play 235 due to a the length of the green. Wind also tends to be in the face on this hole. From the back tees it's 245 with potential to play 260ish. It's kind of ridiculous and is totally out of place on a course which has a 290 yard par 4. The other par 3's are under 175 yards.

 

At longeberger the 18th hole drives me crazy. That's another phenomenal golf course. Except for #18. Again, from the tees which are 6650 yards, the 18th hole is an uphill Par 4 which plays anywhere from 435 to 460. At 435 it isn't that bad... except for one fact,,, Unless you carry it 265-270, you are landing the ball on a severe upslope which means you will get 0 roll and at times the ball will even come backwards. The hole also ALWAYS plays directly into the wind and the tee box makes it completely exposed to the wind. I hit the ball longish (280 or so) and never had less than 5 iron into that green. Most of the time I play it, I end up having to hit a 5 wood into the par 4 green. I played the tips once and couldn't even attempt to reach the green in 2. That's all fine and dandy, except for the fact that 2 holes earlier in the round there is a 480 par 5 which always plays down wind. One round we played, the tees were up on the Par 5 making it play about 460 and the tees were back on #18 and it played 465. It's just stupid. I have enough length where long holes generally aren't a problem... but having one hole on a course that plays substantially longer than anything else always just feels out of place and dumb.

 

3. Holes where you are hitting a blind spot (fairway or green) and there is no way of knowing if the group in front of you is done playing or not. It's downright dangerous and borderline negligent. It's maybe not a design flaw as much as a management issue but either way it's annoying. I have played courses where they have a bell you ring when youre done. Or the GPS carts show you where the carts in front of you are. But courses where there is nothing but guess work are absolutely ridiculous.

 

Lost you on the southern dunes part. I play the same tees and not sure if you're talking about the tee shot or 2nd. The tee shot there is no real issue. The 2nd is the ultimate risk reward shot in do you have enough to carry the bunkers and stop one on the green or just play smart and lay up to a wedge. I can say from experience I've made birdie a lot more with wedge than going for it

[Salazar]

3 things for me:

 

1 - Forced layup on a long par 5 for average hitters... I am not talking about the guys who hit it 285-300 having to layup because there is something that crosses the fairway at 290. I'm talking about par 5's where you can only hit it 220 or so off the tee because there is crap at 230. It's a stupid gimmick that makes the game too hard for average golfers and takes up too much time.

 

2 - Super long holes that don't fit with the general length of the tees you are playing respective to the rest of the course. 2 prime examples of courses I have logged a lot of rounds at are Southern Dunes in Arizona and Longaberger in Ohio. At southern dunes the tees I play are 6900 yards. This course has everything from a potentially driveable Par 4, a couple of reachable par 5s, mixed in with some longer par 4s and 5's. That's all great. But then there is the Par 3 5th hole. From the Gold tees (the 6900, 1 up tees) it plays 217 to the middle with the potential to play 235 due to a the length of the green. Wind also tends to be in the face on this hole. From the back tees it's 245 with potential to play 260ish. It's kind of ridiculous and is totally out of place on a course which has a 290 yard par 4. The other par 3's are under 175 yards.

 

At longeberger the 18th hole drives me crazy. That's another phenomenal golf course. Except for #18. Again, from the tees which are 6650 yards, the 18th hole is an uphill Par 4 which plays anywhere from 435 to 460. At 435 it isn't that bad... except for one fact,,, Unless you carry it 265-270, you are landing the ball on a severe upslope which means you will get 0 roll and at times the ball will even come backwards. The hole also ALWAYS plays directly into the wind and the tee box makes it completely exposed to the wind. I hit the ball longish (280 or so) and never had less than 5 iron into that green. Most of the time I play it, I end up having to hit a 5 wood into the par 4 green. I played the tips once and couldn't even attempt to reach the green in 2. That's all fine and dandy, except for the fact that 2 holes earlier in the round there is a 480 par 5 which always plays down wind. One round we played, the tees were up on the Par 5 making it play about 460 and the tees were back on #18 and it played 465. It's just stupid. I have enough length where long holes generally aren't a problem... but having one hole on a course that plays substantially longer than anything else always just feels out of place and dumb.

 

3. Holes where you are hitting a blind spot (fairway or green) and there is no way of knowing if the group in front of you is done playing or not. It's downright dangerous and borderline negligent. It's maybe not a design flaw as much as a management issue but either way it's annoying. I have played courses where they have a bell you ring when youre done. Or the GPS carts show you where the carts in front of you are. But courses where there is nothing but guess work are absolutely ridiculous.

 

Lost you on the southern dunes part. I play the same tees and not sure if you're talking about the tee shot or 2nd. The tee shot there is no real issue. The 2nd is the ultimate risk reward shot in do you have enough to carry the bunkers and stop one on the green or just play smart and lay up to a wedge. I can say from experience I've made birdie a lot more with wedge than going for it

 

It seems you guys are referring to different holes. I think SilverBullets is talking about the long par 3 (which is actually the 6th IIRC). Sounds like you're talking about the par 5 3rd.

[knock it close]

I think the main problem with long par 3's are that a majority of them are very poorly designed. They basically are asking you to fly something 220ish over a bunker or whatever to land and stop it on the green. If you give the player options on how to play the hole there is nothing wrong with a long one shotter. 225 yard redan where the player can use the contours to kick the ball close could make for an awesome par 3. And with technology nowadays I don't see anything wrong with a 250 yard Biarritz hole, atleast in this case you are giving players options to chase a fw or hybrid onto the green. Toss in something in the 180 range and then a really good short in the sub 140 range and I think you have a very good, diverse, and exciting grouping of par 3 holes

[FairwayFred]

I think the main problem with long par 3's are that a majority of them are very poorly designed. They basically are asking you to fly something 220ish over a bunker or whatever to land and stop it on the green. If you give the player options on how to play the hole there is nothing wrong with a long one shotter. 225 yard redan where the player can use the contours to kick the ball close could make for an awesome par 3. And with technology nowadays I don't see anything wrong with a 250 yard Biarritz hole, atleast in this case you are giving players options to chase a fw or hybrid onto the green. Toss in something in the 180 range and then a really good short in the sub 140 range and I think you have a very good, diverse, and exciting grouping of par 3 holes

 

So add say, a Short and an Eden and you have a very exciting group of par 3s. :)

[teejaywhy]

 

2 - Super long holes that don't fit with the general length of the tees you are playing respective to the rest of the course. 2 prime examples of courses I have logged a lot of rounds at are Southern Dunes in Arizona and Longaberger in Ohio. At southern dunes the tees I play are 6900 yards. This course has everything from a potentially driveable Par 4, a couple of reachable par 5s, mixed in with some longer par 4s and 5's. That's all great. But then there is the Par 3 5th hole. From the Gold tees (the 6900, 1 up tees) it plays 217 to the middle with the potential to play 235 due to a the length of the green. Wind also tends to be in the face on this hole. From the back tees it's 245 with potential to play 260ish. It's kind of ridiculous and is totally out of place on a course which has a 290 yard par 4. The other par 3's are under 175 yards.

 

 

Lost you on the southern dunes part. I play the same tees and not sure if you're talking about the tee shot or 2nd. The tee shot there is no real issue. The 2nd is the ultimate risk reward shot in do you have enough to carry the bunkers and stop one on the green or just play smart and lay up to a wedge. I can say from experience I've made birdie a lot more with wedge than going for it

 

Think he's referring to the Par 3 6th. That hole is a bear for sure. But I don't see it out of character as long as it is balanced with short and mid range par 3's. And I don't understand why the presence of a short par 4 on a course makes a long 3 out of place? All about balance.

[teejaywhy]

Fun to review this old topic.

 

I will stick with my sentiments expressed in post #116 (an excellent read if I do say so myself :lol: )

 

Quirk and character has been bred out of the modern golf game and thus the mindset against classic features that are just unfamiliar.

- Blind shots

- Centerline hazards

- Half-par holes

- The concept of playing away from the hole to get the ball close to the hole.

- The concept of using the ground to influence the movement of the ball.

 

In my mind, the best courses have mystery, and take some time to figure out. They promote observation and thought and get better each time you play them. Contrast to the popular style of the late 20th century of "all right there in front of you" where all you have to do is find the center of the fairway, then pull out your laser and hit your perfectly measured shot to the green and be satisfied that you shot your handicap on the first and only visit to the course.

[bazinky]

Trees that are too close to tee boxes. Invariably, the course super gets lazy or the maintenance budget won't allow for trimming and you end up not being able to use half the tee box.

 

Also hate courses that have lots of rough, trees, or other obstacles in places where high handicap players are likely to miss. Dense rough or trees on the right 150 yards out on par 4 or 5 doesn't factor into course difficulty for a good golfer, but will absolutely destroy pace of play when you factor in the effect on the high handicap.

 

The best courses, in my opinion, are those where hazards and obstacles are designed primarily to have the greatest impact on the better golfer. The average golfer has enough trouble as it is!

[One_Putt_Blunder]

2 - Super long holes that don't fit with the general length of the tees you are playing respective to the rest of the course. 2 prime examples of courses I have logged a lot of rounds at are Southern Dunes in Arizona and Longaberger in Ohio. At southern dunes the tees I play are 6900 yards. This course has everything from a potentially driveable Par 4, a couple of reachable par 5s, mixed in with some longer par 4s and 5's. That's all great. But then there is the Par 3 5th hole. From the Gold tees (the 6900, 1 up tees) it plays 217 to the middle with the potential to play 235 due to a the length of the green. Wind also tends to be in the face on this hole. From the back tees it's 245 with potential to play 260ish. It's kind of ridiculous and is totally out of place on a course which has a 290 yard par 4. The other par 3's are under 175 yards.

 

 

Lost you on the southern dunes part. I play the same tees and not sure if you're talking about the tee shot or 2nd. The tee shot there is no real issue. The 2nd is the ultimate risk reward shot in do you have enough to carry the bunkers and stop one on the green or just play smart and lay up to a wedge. I can say from experience I've made birdie a lot more with wedge than going for it

 

Think he's referring to the Par 3 6th. That hole is a bear for sure. But I don't see it out of character as long as it is balanced with short and mid range par 3's. And I don't understand why the presence of a short par 4 on a course makes a long 3 out of place? All about balance.

 

Got it now was at a party thing last night and reading comprehension was not the best.

 

Im ok with 6 too there is more than 1 way to get the ball on the green/close to the hole there. Plenty of bail out room on the right. Tough hole sure but not unfair or out of place

[knock it close]

I think the main problem with long par 3's are that a majority of them are very poorly designed. They basically are asking you to fly something 220ish over a bunker or whatever to land and stop it on the green. If you give the player options on how to play the hole there is nothing wrong with a long one shotter. 225 yard redan where the player can use the contours to kick the ball close could make for an awesome par 3. And with technology nowadays I don't see anything wrong with a 250 yard Biarritz hole, atleast in this case you are giving players options to chase a fw or hybrid onto the green. Toss in something in the 180 range and then a really good short in the sub 140 range and I think you have a very good, diverse, and exciting grouping of par 3 holes

 

So add say, a Short and an Eden and you have a very exciting group of par 3s. :)

haha yea I guess, I know that's cliched from a template perspective but there is a reason they're template holes

[Nessism]

My design pet peeve is when there are fairway bunkers 200 yards out on a hole that's 430+. The bigger hitters just bash the ball over the bunkers but the shorter hitters can get punished. The shorter guys are already looking at a long approach shot anyway, so why double punish them if they miss the fairway?

[SilverBullets]

2 - Super long holes that don't fit with the general length of the tees you are playing respective to the rest of the course. 2 prime examples of courses I have logged a lot of rounds at are Southern Dunes in Arizona and Longaberger in Ohio. At southern dunes the tees I play are 6900 yards. This course has everything from a potentially driveable Par 4, a couple of reachable par 5s, mixed in with some longer par 4s and 5's. That's all great. But then there is the Par 3 5th hole. From the Gold tees (the 6900, 1 up tees) it plays 217 to the middle with the potential to play 235 due to a the length of the green. Wind also tends to be in the face on this hole. From the back tees it's 245 with potential to play 260ish. It's kind of ridiculous and is totally out of place on a course which has a 290 yard par 4. The other par 3's are under 175 yards.

 

 

Lost you on the southern dunes part. I play the same tees and not sure if you're talking about the tee shot or 2nd. The tee shot there is no real issue. The 2nd is the ultimate risk reward shot in do you have enough to carry the bunkers and stop one on the green or just play smart and lay up to a wedge. I can say from experience I've made birdie a lot more with wedge than going for it

 

Think he's referring to the Par 3 6th. That hole is a bear for sure. But I don't see it out of character as long as it is balanced with short and mid range par 3's. And I don't understand why the presence of a short par 4 on a course makes a long 3 out of place? All about balance.

 

Got it now was at a party thing last night and reading comprehension was not the best.

 

Im ok with 6 too there is more than 1 way to get the ball on the green/close to the hole there. Plenty of bail out room on the right. Tough hole sure but not unfair or out of place

 

Yeah I was talking about #6, my bad.... But yeah IDK why I just feel like that hole is out of place with how the rest of the course plays. I get have a balance of things but for me it just doesn't work. I've made plenty of 3's on the hole, but, for whatever reason the hole doesn't work out well in my brain... but then again, a lot of things don't work well in my brain lol

[SilverBullets]

My design pet peeve is when there are fairway bunkers 200 yards out on a hole that's 430+. The bigger hitters just bash the ball over the bunkers but the shorter hitters can get punished. The shorter guys are already looking at a long approach shot anyway, so why double punish them if they miss the fairway?

 

A lot of those issues are just older course designs that were don't prior to modern golf equipment. My old home club had bunkers on basically every hole that were no longer in play for average hitters. Maintaining them was hugely expensive and they weren't adding any value (they were not aesthetic bunkers, which many courses have). When they remodeled all of the fairway bunkers, they ended up filling in most of the bunkers that are no longer in play and for the most part moved them in a more strategic spot. This was almost always a good 20-30 yards further down the fairway.

 

The course was built in the mid 70's. And up until the early 2000's most of those bunkers were in play.

[PuttCurseRepeat]

Golf holes incorporated through "natural wetlands". Particularly when the wetland grasses grow to a height as to make your tee shot, or approach shot, blind due only to the length of the grass and the low grade of the surrounding playing surface. Many of these types of holes tend to be soggy, too.

[Roadking2003]

Trees don't belong on a golf course.

 

 

Totally disagree. I love trees on a golf course.