Mac O'Grady's Swing ... what can we learn?

[virtuoso]

Sometimes, golf is about playing with your buddies...and sometimes golf is just about being by yourself and striping shots into the dusk.

Per PingG10guy's valid observation, working on face rotation (reducing it) going back--feeling very hooded and "under" at the beginning, and trying to get the arms to move first and away from my shoulders at transition to reduce the looping.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mB0g80vQU0o[/media]

[MonteScheinblum]

Elbows closer in transition kills 4 birds with one stone.

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1418262481' post='10575653']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1418258081' post='10575205']
4-B-3 The Wrist is UNCOCKED at any point from LEVEL to the maximum UNCOCKED condition.

So Level is the minimum uncocked position. If not, what is the minimum uncocked position? If you say anything below Level, I can find a position above it bigger than your minimum, but less than Level, which would contradict your answer.
[/quote]

Cocked, level and uncocked are all positions on the number line. Level is 0. 0 is not a 1 (accumulating/cocking)...or a -1(releasing/uncocking) it is just 0. A LEVEL condition. Once you get into the range of uncocking...aka NOT in a level condition then it isnt a 0 anymore.

Its not a "level but I might as well say uncocked because I like to win on the internet" condition.
[/quote]

You're not looking closely enough at Homer's wording in the definitions. 4-b-2 says Cocked is any wrist position BEYOND Level, which excludes level. 4-B-3 says Uncocked is any position FROM Level. From is inclusive, because if I ask for a whole number from 1 to 9, 1 is a valid answer. If I ask for a whole number beyond 1 up to 9, 1 is not a valid answer. So, Level is not cocked, but is uncocked. Homer was very mathematically and logically precise in his wording.

You're treating these 3 conditions as discrete and mutually exclusive, like the the 3 position select fire on a military AR-15, when there are an infinite number from fully cocked to fully uncocked, with Level the min uncocked position, but not the min cocked position, because Homer, not me, defined it that way.

[scopek]

[quote name='tommy89' timestamp='1418233584' post='10572903']
Haven't read the whole thread because well, i can't be bothered. However i was given videos of Mac O to refer to after a load of stack and tilt coaching
[/quote]

On YouTube by any chance? I'd be interested in seeing them if you have links.

[tommy89]

[quote name='scopek' timestamp='1418270277' post='10576415']
[quote name='tommy89' timestamp='1418233584' post='10572903']
Haven't read the whole thread because well, i can't be bothered. However i was given videos of Mac O to refer to after a load of stack and tilt coaching
[/quote]

On YouTube by any chance? I'd be interested in seeing them if you have links.
[/quote]

No he emailed them to me and said DO NOT show these to anyone. I haven't found them on youtube so not sure where they came from?

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1418269895' post='10576377']
[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1418262481' post='10575653']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1418258081' post='10575205']
4-B-3 The Wrist is UNCOCKED at any point from LEVEL to the maximum UNCOCKED condition.

So Level is the minimum uncocked position. If not, what is the minimum uncocked position? If you say anything below Level, I can find a position above it bigger than your minimum, but less than Level, which would contradict your answer.
[/quote]

Cocked, level and uncocked are all positions on the number line. Level is 0. 0 is not a 1 (accumulating/cocking)...or a -1(releasing/uncocking) it is just 0. A LEVEL condition. Once you get into the range of uncocking...aka NOT in a level condition then it isnt a 0 anymore.

Its not a "level but I might as well say uncocked because I like to win on the internet" condition.
[/quote]

You're not looking closely enough at Homer's wording in the definitions. 4-b-2 says Cocked is any wrist position BEYOND Level, which excludes level. 4-B-3 says Uncocked is any position FROM Level. From is inclusive, because if I ask for a whole number from 1 to 9, 1 is a valid answer. If I ask for a whole number beyond 1 up to 9, 1 is not a valid answer. So, Level is not cocked, but is uncocked. Homer was very mathematically and logically precise in his wording.

You're treating these 3 conditions as discrete and mutually exclusive, like the the 3 position select fire on a military AR-15, when there are an infinite number from fully cocked to fully uncocked, with Level the min uncocked position, but not the min cocked position, because Homer, not me, defined it that way.
[/quote]

You had to be misquoting Homey...or you aren't looking closely enough at his definitions. "Any position from level" means that level, and all other wrist positions are considered "uncocked" since FROM is inclusive and no intended direction [i]from[/i] level is givin. Then we must consider the definition of "cocked" per your exact quoting...which would mean that the wrist can actually be in a cocked condition and fit the qualifications of an uncocked condition at the very same time. Homer was very mathematically and logically precise in his wording.

#mindblown

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='tommy89' timestamp='1418284982' post='10577099']
No he emailed them to me and said DO NOT show these to anyone. I haven't found them on youtube so not sure where they came from?
[/quote]

Well per our current discussion on semantics...when you tell someone not to "show" something to someone that actually means you shouldn't play the videos for other people. But if you "give" the videos to someone...or "email" them then the context is different. Or maybe your computer got hacked and a bunch of stuff came up missing?

At the end of the day he was probably told "don't show these to anyone" too...so he just emailed them to you (different than "show" as explained above)

These guys are very mathematically and logically precise in their wording.

[tommy89]

Well i have two. One face on one down the line. Mac is in red. Not sure that means anything

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1418287310' post='10577149']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1418269895' post='10576377']
[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1418262481' post='10575653']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1418258081' post='10575205']
4-B-3 The Wrist is UNCOCKED at any point from LEVEL to the maximum UNCOCKED condition.

So Level is the minimum uncocked position. If not, what is the minimum uncocked position? If you say anything below Level, I can find a position above it bigger than your minimum, but less than Level, which would contradict your answer.
[/quote]

Cocked, level and uncocked are all positions on the number line. Level is 0. 0 is not a 1 (accumulating/cocking)...or a -1(releasing/uncocking) it is just 0. A LEVEL condition. Once you get into the range of uncocking...aka NOT in a level condition then it isnt a 0 anymore.

Its not a "level but I might as well say uncocked because I like to win on the internet" condition.
[/quote]

You're not looking closely enough at Homer's wording in the definitions. 4-b-2 says Cocked is any wrist position BEYOND Level, which excludes level. 4-B-3 says Uncocked is any position FROM Level. From is inclusive, because if I ask for a whole number from 1 to 9, 1 is a valid answer. If I ask for a whole number beyond 1 up to 9, 1 is not a valid answer. So, Level is not cocked, but is uncocked. Homer was very mathematically and logically precise in his wording.

You're treating these 3 conditions as discrete and mutually exclusive, like the the 3 position select fire on a military AR-15, when there are an infinite number from fully cocked to fully uncocked, with Level the min uncocked position, but not the min cocked position, because Homer, not me, defined it that way.
[/quote]

You had to be misquoting Homey...or you aren't looking closely enough at his definitions. "Any position from level" means that level, and all other wrist positions are considered "uncocked" since FROM is inclusive and no intended direction [i]from[/i] level is givin. Then we must consider the definition of "cocked" per your exact quoting...which would mean that the wrist can actually be in a cocked condition and fit the qualifications of an uncocked condition at the very same time. Homer was very mathematically and logically precise in his wording.

#mindblown
[/quote]

Apparently you don't have the book. Uncocked is ANY wrist position FROM Level to fully uncocked. The direction is downward. You honestly think you go from uncocked to more uncocked in an upward direction? When someone refers to children FROM 8 to 12, you don't think 8 yr olds are included?

Level is the dividing line between cocked wrist positions and uncocked wrist conditions, and is the FIRST uncocked position, but NOT the 1st cocked position, because he defined cocked as any position BEYOND Level, UPWARD to fully cocked. Beyond Level excludes Level.

Homer was very precise in his writing, but you need two things - the book and precision reading of it to get this. On the other hand, Homer warned against reading TGM without guidance.

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1418305517' post='10577565']
Homer was very precise in his writing
[/quote]

You clearly stated your "full" definitions:

[color=#282828][size=3][background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]4-b-2 says Cocked is any wrist position BEYOND Level[/background][/size][/color]
[color=#282828][size=3][background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]4-B-3 says Uncocked is any position FROM Level[/background][/size][/color]

I have the book in my hand now (typing one-handed) and clearly you misquoted Homer. I was only responding to your post and I assumed you were stating the [i]whole[/i] truth. Your original statement regarding the use of the italicized words [i]from[/i] and [i]beyond[/i] (7th edition) is correct...but you clearly quoted Homer's full definition in a less-than-accurate manner. Level wrist condition is indeed the FIRST STEP in the direction of an uncocked wrist condition.

I have more than enough guidance. My previous response was just a joyful troll on your short definitions lol. What can I say? I was speaking in terms of a range of movement with level as the dividing line and disregarding Homer's actual/literal definition. I got caught with my drawers down too. #virtuoso

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='notsohard' timestamp='1418259143' post='10575293']
[quote name='virtuoso' timestamp='1418232792' post='10572813']
Here is this morning warm up. Couple things a little better, couple things still crappy.
[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTqE1udpY94&list=UU8KnRUrVF2cOn_VC6U4ZMNQ[/media]
[/quote]

looks good enough to score decently.
watching you hitting balls away in that session, did you have anything particular in mind while hitting away.
[/quote][quote name='virtuoso' timestamp='1418264765' post='10575885']
Sometimes, golf is about playing with your buddies...and sometimes golf is just about being by yourself and striping shots into the dusk.

Per PingG10guy's valid observation, working on face rotation (reducing it) going back--feeling very hooded and "under" at the beginning, and trying to get the arms to move first and away from my shoulders at transition to reduce the looping.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mB0g80vQU0o[/media]
[/quote]

Since you want Mac's '88 model, why aren't you using his left hand finger grip and keeping both arms firmly connect to the torso, both of which he says are essential in the Patterson Clinic video?

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1418306509' post='10577649']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1418305517' post='10577565']
Homer was very precise in his writing
[/quote]

You clearly stated your "full" definitions:

[color=#282828][size=3][background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]4-b-2 says Cocked is any wrist position BEYOND Level[/background][/size][/color]
[color=#282828][size=3][background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]4-B-3 says Uncocked is any position FROM Level[/background][/size][/color]

I have the book in my hand now (typing one-handed) and clearly you misquoted Homer. I was only responding to your post and I assumed you were stating the [i]whole[/i] truth. Your original statement regarding the use of the italicized words [i]from[/i] and [i]beyond[/i] (7th edition) is correct...but you clearly quoted Homer's full definition in a less-than-accurate manner. Level wrist condition is indeed the FIRST STEP in the direction of an uncocked wrist condition.

I have more than enough guidance. My previous response was just a joyful troll on your short definitions lol. What can I say? I was speaking in terms of a range of movement with level as the dividing line and disregarding Homer's actual/literal definition. I got caught with my drawers down too. #virtuoso
[/quote]

I quoted the full defs in an earlier post, and was partially paraphrasing in these two, didn't mean to mislead.

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1418307343' post='10577721']
I quoted the full defs in an earlier post, and was partially paraphrasing in these two, didn't mean to mislead.
[/quote]

Hey its cool. I enjoyed it. While I got you Im looking at #virtuoso and I see he has short legs and long torso. Mac is the opposite. You have been talking about TGM on the internet for a LONG time...how do you think something like that can affect his ability to use one of Mac's old patterns?

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1418307524' post='10577729']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1418307343' post='10577721']
I quoted the full defs in an earlier post, and was partially paraphrasing in these two, didn't mean to mislead.
[/quote]

Hey its cool. I enjoyed it. While I got you Im looking at #virtuoso and I see he has short legs and long torso. Mac is the opposite. You have been talking about TGM on the internet for a LONG time...how do you think something like that can affect his ability to use one of Mac's old patterns?
[/quote]

Your question gives methe chance to prove I'm not the TGM Nazi everyone thinks. No mention in the book of body types at all, which is puzzling, because there are lots of grip, wrist motion, shoulder plane, etc preferences stated, without regard to shapes and sizes of golfer's. To me, that's a serious omission, which could lead someone into chasing a pattern completely unsuitable for him for yrs. Imagine a short stocky guy trying to swing like Couples, when he can't even get his hands to shoulder height!

But as far as Virtuoso is concerned, He looks slim and athletic, well coordinated, no reason why he couldn't do the 1988 Mac pattern, IF he could switch to that weird left hand finger grip, which I've never seen used by any other tour pro.

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1418309343' post='10577861']
[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1418307524' post='10577729']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1418307343' post='10577721']
I quoted the full defs in an earlier post, and was partially paraphrasing in these two, didn't mean to mislead.
[/quote]

Hey its cool. I enjoyed it. While I got you Im looking at #virtuoso and I see he has short legs and long torso. Mac is the opposite. You have been talking about TGM on the internet for a LONG time...how do you think something like that can affect his ability to use one of Mac's old patterns?
[/quote]

Your question gives methe chance to prove I'm not the TGM Nazi everyone thinks. No mention in the book of body types at all, which is puzzling, because there are lots of grip, wrist motion, shoulder plane, etc preferences stated, without regard to shapes and sizes of golfer's. To me, that's a serious omission, which could lead someone into chasing a pattern completely unsuitable for him for yrs. Imagine a short stocky guy trying to swing like Couples, when he can't even get his hands to shoulder height!

But as far as Virtuoso is concerned, He looks slim and athletic, well coordinated, no reason why he couldn't do the 1988 Mac pattern, IF he could switch to that weird left hand finger grip, which I've never seen used by any other tour pro.
[/quote]

I think a demonstration would be right on topic. Im not familiar with the grip youre referring to. The vimeo clinics have bad quality.

[whatshannenin]

Lol at everyone trying MORAD on secondhand or ripped off videos. Everyone is so entitled and thinks stuff should be free in this world.....pretty shocking. Idolize a guy like mac by trying to emulate his swing, then insult him by not actually seeking him out and paying for the proper information. No wonder you can't get the sequence or patterns right.

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1418311934' post='10578073']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1418309343' post='10577861']
[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1418307524' post='10577729']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1418307343' post='10577721']
I quoted the full defs in an earlier post, and was partially paraphrasing in these two, didn't mean to mislead.
[/quote]

Hey its cool. I enjoyed it. While I got you Im looking at #virtuoso and I see he has short legs and long torso. Mac is the opposite. You have been talking about TGM on the internet for a LONG time...how do you think something like that can affect his ability to use one of Mac's old patterns?
[/quote]

Your question gives methe chance to prove I'm not the TGM Nazi everyone thinks. No mention in the book of body types at all, which is puzzling, because there are lots of grip, wrist motion, shoulder plane, etc preferences stated, without regard to shapes and sizes of golfer's. To me, that's a serious omission, which could lead someone into chasing a pattern completely unsuitable for him for yrs. Imagine a short stocky guy trying to swing like Couples, when he can't even get his hands to shoulder height!

But as far as Virtuoso is concerned, He looks slim and athletic, well coordinated, no reason why he couldn't do the 1988 Mac pattern, IF he could switch to that weird left hand finger grip, which I've never seen used by any other tour pro.
[/quote]

I think a demonstration would be right on topic. Im not familiar with the grip youre referring to. The vimeo clinics have bad quality.
[/quote]

Have you seen the Patterson clinic Vimeo? In spite of the poor quality, Mac shows it very clearly, very first thing in the vid. I'd post a link to the Patterson Vimeo, but don't know how on an iPad. Basically, it's placing the handle at the base of all four fingers, so that if you placed bottom of the forearm on a table the club would stand straight up. Starting with the hand vertical, when it 's closed down, the top of the hand is at a45 deg angle, making it look like a very strong grip. Mac says it's essential so that it only takes a half roll to plane the club face going back, versus a full roll of the flying wedges when a palm grip is used.

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='whatshannenin' timestamp='1418315356' post='10578439']
Lol at everyone trying MORAD on secondhand or ripped off videos. Everyone is so entitled and thinks stuff should be free in this world.....pretty shocking. Idolize a guy like mac by trying to emulate his swing, then insult him by not actually seeking him out and paying for the proper information. No wonder you can't get the sequence or patterns right.
[/quote]

Send me $2500 plus two way airfare and some way to reach him.

[eightiron]

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1418317023' post='10578587']
[quote name='whatshannenin' timestamp='1418315356' post='10578439']
Lol at everyone trying MORAD on secondhand or ripped off videos. Everyone is so entitled and thinks stuff should be free in this world.....pretty shocking. Idolize a guy like mac by trying to emulate his swing, then insult him by not actually seeking him out and paying for the proper information. No wonder you can't get the sequence or patterns right.
[/quote]

Send me $2500 plus two way airfare and some way to reach him.
[/quote]

I am pretty sure you couldn't sniff the Morad pattern . Be a waste of money imop

[MK7Golf21]

from my eye it looks like a pretty simple pattern, atleast the 80s version. My only concern is how short and low the swing can be, doesnt seem like you would be a distance guy with driver, although looks very efficient with irons.

[virtuoso]

[quote name='whatshannenin' timestamp='1418315356' post='10578439']
Lol at everyone trying MORAD on secondhand or ripped off videos. Everyone is so entitled and thinks stuff should be free in this world.....pretty shocking. Idolize a guy like mac by trying to emulate his swing, then insult him by not actually seeking him out and paying for the proper information. No wonder you can't get the sequence or patterns right.
[/quote]

No self-respecting MORAD thread could call itself complete without these types of responses included. Thank you sir for your contribution and valid concern.

[eightiron]

[quote name='virtuoso' timestamp='1418318625' post='10578711']
[quote name='whatshannenin' timestamp='1418315356' post='10578439']
Lol at everyone trying MORAD on secondhand or ripped off videos. Everyone is so entitled and thinks stuff should be free in this world.....pretty shocking. Idolize a guy like mac by trying to emulate his swing, then insult him by not actually seeking him out and paying for the proper information. No wonder you can't get the sequence or patterns right.
[/quote]

No self-respecting MORAD thread could call itself complete without these types of responses included. Thank you sir for your contribution and valid concern.
[/quote]

Funny thing though is this guy actually knows a thing or 2

[MK7Golf21]

you live in california virtuoso?

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1418317805' post='10578651']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1418317023' post='10578587']
[quote name='whatshannenin' timestamp='1418315356' post='10578439']
Lol at everyone trying MORAD on secondhand or ripped off videos. Everyone is so entitled and thinks stuff should be free in this world.....pretty shocking. Idolize a guy like mac by trying to emulate his swing, then insult him by not actually seeking him out and paying for the proper information. No wonder you can't get the sequence or patterns right.
[/quote]

Send me $2500 plus two way airfare and some way to reach him.
[/quote]

I am pretty sure you couldn't sniff the Morad pattern . Be a waste of money imop
[/quote]

Unlike you, I can do any pattern, but I didn't like the smell of what I saw with that left hand finger grip in the video anyway, plus his clinic looked more ego trip than info. I prefer to drop out of his inner circle right from the git-go, and besides I wouldn't take a lesson from anyone who didn't know that a Level wrist is uncocked.

However, since you chose to smart off and come after me, let's see which one of us can sniff that pattern shown in the Vimeo better. Up for that?

[tommy89]

Fist fight sounds easier?

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='Redjeep83' timestamp='1418318316' post='10578685']
from my eye it looks like a pretty simple pattern, atleast the 80s version. My only concern is how short and low the swing can be, doesnt seem like you would be a distance guy with driver, although looks very efficient with irons.
[/quote]

What? Werent u the guy with the shovel takeaway vid?

[MK7Golf21]

[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1418320181' post='10578861']
[quote name='Redjeep83' timestamp='1418318316' post='10578685']
from my eye it looks like a pretty simple pattern, atleast the 80s version. My only concern is how short and low the swing can be, doesnt seem like you would be a distance guy with driver, although looks very efficient with irons.
[/quote]

What? Werent u the guy with the shovel takeaway vid?
[/quote]

shovel? dont know what video your talking about. Anyway, not saying my swing is the best out there, still learning.

[PingG10guy]

Mizunojoe was never inner circle. Redjeep uses a shovel takeaway (irony).

#changingmag

Whos next?

[virtuoso]

[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1418319073' post='10578751']
[quote name='virtuoso' timestamp='1418318625' post='10578711']
[quote name='whatshannenin' timestamp='1418315356' post='10578439']
Lol at everyone trying MORAD on secondhand or ripped off videos. Everyone is so entitled and thinks stuff should be free in this world.....pretty shocking. Idolize a guy like mac by trying to emulate his swing, then insult him by not actually seeking him out and paying for the proper information. No wonder you can't get the sequence or patterns right.
[/quote]

No self-respecting MORAD thread could call itself complete without these types of responses included. Thank you sir for your contribution and valid concern.
[/quote]

Funny thing though is this guy actually knows a thing or 2
[/quote]

Oh I don't doubt that. Most of the guys that scold me for copying Mac are well versed MORAD guys.

[ej002]

Joe - You might lose that challenge, haven't you seen 8's swing?


[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1418309343' post='10577861']

But as far as Virtuoso is concerned, He looks slim and athletic, well coordinated, no reason why he couldn't do the 1988 Mac pattern, IF he could switch to that weird left hand finger grip, which I've never seen used by any other tour pro.

Have you seen the Patterson clinic Vimeo? In spite of the poor quality, Mac shows it very clearly, very first thing in the vid. I'd post a link to the Patterson Vimeo, but don't know how on an iPad. Basically, it's placing the handle at the base of all four fingers, so that if you placed bottom of the forearm on a table the club would stand straight up. Starting with the hand vertical, when it 's closed down, the top of the hand is at a45 deg angle, making it look like a very strong grip. Mac says it's essential so that it only takes a half roll to plane the club face going back, versus a full roll of the flying wedges when a palm grip is used.
[/quote]

It SVS's perpendicular grip chit, max out "residual" #3 whatever that means. Basically grip perpendicular to the finders rather than diagonal, like holding bat.