Mac O'Grady's Swing ... what can we learn?

[MK7Golf21]

[quote name='virtuoso' timestamp='1418173027' post='10569477']
Back to work on this. Haven't swung much in the last few months so the same mechanical problems reside. But, I have some good ideas of how to proceed.

The swing as of today. Shaft still loops behind me, left shoulder dives, not enough lordosis, right hip too high, and hips out racing arms at the beginning of the downswing....steming form a bad transition sequence.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SzIh3EKBxQ&list=UU8KnRUrVF2cOn_VC6U4ZMNQ[/media]
[/quote]

Nice swing, work on your swing by yourself or with someone else?

[Ike Clanton]

[quote name='FrankLinnear' timestamp='1418183953' post='10570675']
No as in are the hands that low
[/quote]

Well......they're lower than this, no ?

[attachment=2529407:image.jpg]

[attachment=2529409:image.jpg]

[FrankLinnear]

What's moe Norman got to do with it ?

[Ike Clanton]

[quote name='FrankLinnear' timestamp='1418187030' post='10570913']
What's moe Norman got to do with it ?
[/quote]

Well. He was pretty good at hitting balls. Virtuoso seems to look like he's pretty good at hitting balls. I was interested in his opinion about the positioning of his hands, arms, and club in relation to the body. Then, you answered for Virtuoso, saying that his hands were not low. So, I thought I'd offer a point of reference with the best ball hitting machine that I ever saw in person- including Mac O'Grady, who I played with in a competitive environment.

[FrankLinnear]

[quote name='Ike Clanton' timestamp='1418188001' post='10570969']
[quote name='FrankLinnear' timestamp='1418187030' post='10570913']
What's moe Norman got to do with it ?
[/quote]

Well. He was pretty good at hitting balls. Virtuoso seems to look like he's pretty good at hitting balls. I was interested in his opinion about the positioning of his hands, arms, and club in relation to the body. Then, you answered for Virtuoso, saying that his hands were not low. So, I thought I'd offer a point of reference with the best ball hitting machine that I ever saw in person- including Mac O'Grady, who I played with in a competitive environment.
[/quote]

I saw moe and I thought he was a short knocker . He'd talk to himself sayin heavy ball heavy ball . There's a reason for O'Gradys set up for 2500 you can find out

[Ike Clanton]

[quote name='FrankLinnear' timestamp='1418189602' post='10571041']
[quote name='Ike Clanton' timestamp='1418188001' post='10570969']
[quote name='FrankLinnear' timestamp='1418187030' post='10570913']
What's moe Norman got to do with it ?
[/quote]

Well. He was pretty good at hitting balls. Virtuoso seems to look like he's pretty good at hitting balls. I was interested in his opinion about the positioning of his hands, arms, and club in relation to the body. Then, you answered for Virtuoso, saying that his hands were not low. So, I thought I'd offer a point of reference with the best ball hitting machine that I ever saw in person- including Mac O'Grady, who I played with in a competitive environment.
[/quote]

I saw moe and I thought he was a short knocker . He'd talk to himself sayin heavy ball heavy ball . There's a reason for O'Gradys set up for 2500 you can find out
[/quote]

You're right ! I just verified it on the Trackman. I am able to swing only 109 with Moe's set up and I'm able to swing 110 with Mac's.

Now, how about for accuracy. Any benefits/liabilities there ?

[FrankLinnear]

Where can I watch those two swings

[Ike Clanton]

[quote name='FrankLinnear' timestamp='1418190618' post='10571093']
Where can I watch those two swings
[/quote]

Soon. Very soon

[Ike Clanton]

[quote name='FrankLinnear' timestamp='1418189602' post='10571041']
[quote name='Ike Clanton' timestamp='1418188001' post='10570969']
[quote name='FrankLinnear' timestamp='1418187030' post='10570913']
What's moe Norman got to do with it ?
[/quote]

Well. He was pretty good at hitting balls. Virtuoso seems to look like he's pretty good at hitting balls. I was interested in his opinion about the positioning of his hands, arms, and club in relation to the body. Then, you answered for Virtuoso, saying that his hands were not low. So, I thought I'd offer a point of reference with the best ball hitting machine that I ever saw in person- including Mac O'Grady, who I played with in a competitive environment.
[/quote]

I saw moe and I thought he was a short knocker . He'd talk to himself sayin heavy ball heavy ball . There's a reason for O'Gradys set up for 2500 you can find out
[/quote]

Also,

When you heard Moe muttering about "heavy ball"

Did he happen to mention that his clubs were E3 ? Those are usually not the type you swing real fast

[PutterKilledTheDream]

[quote name='Ike Clanton' timestamp='1418190343' post='10571077']
[quote name='FrankLinnear' timestamp='1418189602' post='10571041']
[quote name='Ike Clanton' timestamp='1418188001' post='10570969']
[quote name='FrankLinnear' timestamp='1418187030' post='10570913']
What's moe Norman got to do with it ?
[/quote]

Well. He was pretty good at hitting balls. Virtuoso seems to look like he's pretty good at hitting balls. I was interested in his opinion about the positioning of his hands, arms, and club in relation to the body. Then, you answered for Virtuoso, saying that his hands were not low. So, I thought I'd offer a point of reference with the best ball hitting machine that I ever saw in person- including Mac O'Grady, who I played with in a competitive environment.
[/quote]

I saw moe and I thought he was a short knocker . He'd talk to himself sayin heavy ball heavy ball . There's a reason for O'Gradys set up for 2500 you can find out
[/quote]

You're right ! I just verified it on the Trackman. I am able to swing only 109 with Moe's set up and I'm able to swing 110 with Mac's.

Now, how about for accuracy. Any benefits/liabilities there ?
[/quote]
You get a little under plane coming back with the high hands? A little shallow roll move off the ball?

[FrankLinnear]

[quote name='Ike Clanton' timestamp='1418190984' post='10571109']
[quote name='FrankLinnear' timestamp='1418189602' post='10571041']
[quote name='Ike Clanton' timestamp='1418188001' post='10570969']
[quote name='FrankLinnear' timestamp='1418187030' post='10570913']
What's moe Norman got to do with it ?
[/quote]

Well. He was pretty good at hitting balls. Virtuoso seems to look like he's pretty good at hitting balls. I was interested in his opinion about the positioning of his hands, arms, and club in relation to the body. Then, you answered for Virtuoso, saying that his hands were not low. So, I thought I'd offer a point of reference with the best ball hitting machine that I ever saw in person- including Mac O'Grady, who I played with in a competitive environment.
[/quote]

I saw moe and I thought he was a short knocker . He'd talk to himself sayin heavy ball heavy ball . There's a reason for O'Gradys set up for 2500 you can find out
[/quote]

Also,

When you heard Moe muttering about "heavy ball"

Did he happen to mention that his clubs were E3 ? Those are usually not the type you swing real fast
[/quote]

I don't think its a big factor . I'm sure you could find some study on exactly how much swing weight and overall weight effect speed but it's not like he was using a 10 kg club
Just muttering only heavy ball heavy ball while hitting into the wind very short hitter

[Ike Clanton]

[quote name='PutterKilledTheDream' timestamp='1418191134' post='10571115']
[quote name='Ike Clanton' timestamp='1418190343' post='10571077']
[quote name='FrankLinnear' timestamp='1418189602' post='10571041']
[quote name='Ike Clanton' timestamp='1418188001' post='10570969']
[quote name='FrankLinnear' timestamp='1418187030' post='10570913']
What's moe Norman got to do with it ?
[/quote]

Well. He was pretty good at hitting balls. Virtuoso seems to look like he's pretty good at hitting balls. I was interested in his opinion about the positioning of his hands, arms, and club in relation to the body. Then, you answered for Virtuoso, saying that his hands were not low. So, I thought I'd offer a point of reference with the best ball hitting machine that I ever saw in person- including Mac O'Grady, who I played with in a competitive environment.
[/quote]

I saw moe and I thought he was a short knocker . He'd talk to himself sayin heavy ball heavy ball . There's a reason for O'Gradys set up for 2500 you can find out
[/quote]

You're right ! I just verified it on the Trackman. I am able to swing only 109 with Moe's set up and I'm able to swing 110 with Mac's.

Now, how about for accuracy. Any benefits/liabilities there ?
[/quote]
You get a little under plane coming back with the high hands? A little shallow roll move off the ball?
[/quote]

Any benefits ? or did this guy just defy all odds on nearly every ball he struck ?

[PutterKilledTheDream]

I would say yes, the same way Rainman defied the odds counting toothpicks and, well, cards in Vegas. Special people do special things.

[Ike Clanton]

[quote name='PutterKilledTheDream' timestamp='1418191968' post='10571145']
I would say yes, the same way Rainman defied the odds counting toothpicks and, well, cards in Vegas. Special people do special things.
[/quote]

Yep. Especially when they figure out the easiest way

[FrankLinnear]

If Norman was so straight why he shoot lousy scores on us tour. One event he finish top ten out of 27

[Ike Clanton]

[quote name='FrankLinnear' timestamp='1418192470' post='10571161']
If Norman was so straight why he shoot lousy scores on us tour. One event he finish top ten out of 27
[/quote]

Because he didn't load PA 3 at address

[FrankLinnear]

[quote name='Ike Clanton' timestamp='1418192835' post='10571171']
[quote name='FrankLinnear' timestamp='1418192470' post='10571161']
If Norman was so straight why he shoot lousy scores on us tour. One event he finish top ten out of 27
[/quote]

Because he didn't load PA 3 at address
[/quote]

Why you talking about him then . Just get on with it and get to the LBL Stop the foreplay it's boring

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='virtuoso' timestamp='1418173027' post='10569477']
Back to work on this. Haven't swung much in the last few months so the same mechanical problems reside. But, I have some good ideas of how to proceed.

The swing as of today. Shaft still loops behind me, left shoulder dives, not enough lordosis, right hip too high, and hips out racing arms at the beginning of the downswing....steming form a bad transition sequence.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SzIh3EKBxQ&list=UU8KnRUrVF2cOn_VC6U4ZMNQ[/media]
[/quote]

Sir...totally forgot about this thread and who you are. I was totally trolling earlier lol. New Mac vid popped up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jjuU72jYnU

And I think your clubface opens really really fast in the early backswing. Right arm looks to IR a little to start down. Still a clean action at this point. What does it look like when you take it back feeling shut?

[MK7Golf21]

Mac does have some of the lowest hands Ive seen at address

[whatshannenin]

[quote name='Redjeep83' timestamp='1418230257' post='10572563']
Mac does have some of the lowest hands Ive seen at address
[/quote]

Clearly he would have been better with a more "modern" setup....

[virtuoso]

[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1418227144' post='10572273']
[quote name='virtuoso' timestamp='1418173027' post='10569477']
Back to work on this. Haven't swung much in the last few months so the same mechanical problems reside. But, I have some good ideas of how to proceed.

The swing as of today. Shaft still loops behind me, left shoulder dives, not enough lordosis, right hip too high, and hips out racing arms at the beginning of the downswing....steming form a bad transition sequence.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SzIh3EKBxQ&list=UU8KnRUrVF2cOn_VC6U4ZMNQ[/media]
[/quote]

Sir...totally forgot about this thread and who you are. I was totally trolling earlier lol. New Mac vid popped up:

[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jjuU72jYnU"]https://www.youtube....h?v=0jjuU72jYnU[/url]

And I think your clubface opens really really fast in the early backswing. Right arm looks to IR a little to start down. Still a clean action at this point. What does it look like when you take it back feeling shut?
[/quote]

No, you were right. I thought I was being clever in the other thread and started throwing accusations, and got caught with my drawers down.

It's so funny you mention the face angle going back. I notice that everytime--mainatin too much cup and over-rotae the forearms, but I keep forgeting to fix it. Pretty clear in the Lake Wrist Angles vid what they need to do.

Here is this morning warm up. Couple things a little better, couple things still crappy.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTqE1udpY94&list=UU8KnRUrVF2cOn_VC6U4ZMNQ"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTqE1udpY94&list=UU8KnRUrVF2cOn_VC6U4ZMNQ[/url]

[tommy89]

Haven't read the whole thread because well, i can't be bothered. However i was given videos of Mac O to refer to after a load of stack and tilt coaching

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='Redjeep83' timestamp='1418230257' post='10572563']
Mac does have some of the lowest hands Ive seen at address
[/quote]

When I watched him on the range at the '88 PGA, he had the lowest hands I'd ever seen at impact. Which was odd, because I was about 4 yrs into TGM, and knew that Mac was also into it. TGM specifies the left wrist is level at impact, which means higher hands at impact.

[virtuoso]

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1418234118' post='10572975']
[quote name='Redjeep83' timestamp='1418230257' post='10572563']
Mac does have some of the lowest hands Ive seen at address
[/quote]

When I watched him on the range at the '88 PGA, he had the lowest hands I'd ever seen at impact. Which was odd, because I was about 4 yrs into TGM, and knew that Mac was also into it. TGM specifies the left wrist is level at impact, which means higher hands at impact.
[/quote]

In the Sept 86 vid, he says left wrist is level through inpact, but he gripped it much more in his fingers so that would probably be a little lower than going more palm. I think he thought the left wrist worked as a hinge better with the grip in the fingers. On the other hand, i used to have a lot of DTL and UTL footage of drivers form 1990ish, and his hands were quite a bit higher at impact than address.

I know much later, he pulled the handle up at address, and then went more CP and matched up address and impact more.

But i can't help loving the CF fade from 86-94. That's the model for me.

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='virtuoso' timestamp='1418234850' post='10573027']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1418234118' post='10572975']
[quote name='Redjeep83' timestamp='1418230257' post='10572563']
Mac does have some of the lowest hands Ive seen at address
[/quote]

When I watched him on the range at the '88 PGA, he had the lowest hands I'd ever seen at impact. Which was odd, because I was about 4 yrs into TGM, and knew that Mac was also into it. TGM specifies the left wrist is level at impact, which means higher hands at impact.
[/quote]

In the Sept 86 vid, he says left wrist is level through inpact, but he gripped it much more in his fingers so that would probably be a little lower than going more palm. I think he thought the left wrist worked as a hinge better with the grip in the fingers. On the other hand, i used to have a lot of DTL and UTL footage of drivers form 1990ish, and his hands were quite a bit higher at impact than address.

I know much later, he pulled the handle up at address, and then went more CP and matched up address and impact more.

But i can't help loving the CF fade from 86-94. That's the model for me.
[/quote]

Yes, but in the clinic vimeo posted from the Steve Patterson site here a few days ago, Mac clearly says that his left wrist is " level, not cocked or uncocked", which is not right - level is uncocked. So either he didn't know the TGM defn or he had his own defn. I was very close to him, looking right down the line and it looked like a huge #3 Accum at impact, and his arms appeared to be close to vertical. In the Patterson Vimeo, while explaining the grip has to have the back of the hand facing 45 degs upward at address, he goes through the positions, and says the shoulders move first and then stall at p6, where the left hip takes the hands through impact with a quick turn, and the hands still appear very low. What I saw looked very much like the clinic swing. The ball flight appeared to be straight, but was probably falling off at the end, I was watching him, not the ball.

[PreppySlapCut]

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1418245244' post='10574039']
[quote name='virtuoso' timestamp='1418234850' post='10573027']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1418234118' post='10572975']
[quote name='Redjeep83' timestamp='1418230257' post='10572563']
Mac does have some of the lowest hands Ive seen at address
[/quote]

When I watched him on the range at the '88 PGA, he had the lowest hands I'd ever seen at impact. Which was odd, because I was about 4 yrs into TGM, and knew that Mac was also into it. TGM specifies the left wrist is level at impact, which means higher hands at impact.
[/quote]

In the Sept 86 vid, he says left wrist is level through inpact, but he gripped it much more in his fingers so that would probably be a little lower than going more palm. I think he thought the left wrist worked as a hinge better with the grip in the fingers. On the other hand, i used to have a lot of DTL and UTL footage of drivers form 1990ish, and his hands were quite a bit higher at impact than address.

I know much later, he pulled the handle up at address, and then went more CP and matched up address and impact more.

But i can't help loving the CF fade from 86-94. That's the model for me.
[/quote]

Yes, but in the clinic vimeo posted from the Steve Patterson site here a few days ago, Mac clearly says that his left wrist is " level, not cocked or uncocked", which is not right - level is uncocked. So either he didn't know the TGM defn or he had his own defn. I was very close to him, looking right down the line and it looked like a huge #3 Accum at impact, and his arms appeared to be close to vertical. In the Patterson Vimeo, while explaining the grip has to have the back of the hand facing 45 degs upward at address, he goes through the positions, and says the shoulders move first and then stall at p6, where the left hip takes the hands through impact with a quick turn, and the hands still appear very low. What I saw looked very much like the clinic swing. The ball flight appeared to be straight, but was probably falling off at the end, I was watching him, not the ball.
[/quote]
3 left wrist conditions per TGM: cocked, level, and uncocked. Level is not uncocked, as you stated.

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='PreppySlapCut' timestamp='1418254270' post='10574895']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1418245244' post='10574039']
[quote name='virtuoso' timestamp='1418234850' post='10573027']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1418234118' post='10572975']
[quote name='Redjeep83' timestamp='1418230257' post='10572563']
Mac does have some of the lowest hands Ive seen at address
[/quote]

When I watched him on the range at the '88 PGA, he had the lowest hands I'd ever seen at impact. Which was odd, because I was about 4 yrs into TGM, and knew that Mac was also into it. TGM specifies the left wrist is level at impact, which means higher hands at impact.
[/quote]

In the Sept 86 vid, he says left wrist is level through inpact, but he gripped it much more in his fingers so that would probably be a little lower than going more palm. I think he thought the left wrist worked as a hinge better with the grip in the fingers. On the other hand, i used to have a lot of DTL and UTL footage of drivers form 1990ish, and his hands were quite a bit higher at impact than address.

I know much later, he pulled the handle up at address, and then went more CP and matched up address and impact more.

But i can't help loving the CF fade from 86-94. That's the model for me.
[/quote]

Yes, but in the clinic vimeo posted from the Steve Patterson site here a few days ago, Mac clearly says that his left wrist is " level, not cocked or uncocked", which is not right - level is uncocked. So either he didn't know the TGM defn or he had his own defn. I was very close to him, looking right down the line and it looked like a huge #3 Accum at impact, and his arms appeared to be close to vertical. In the Patterson Vimeo, while explaining the grip has to have the back of the hand facing 45 degs upward at address, he goes through the positions, and says the shoulders move first and then stall at p6, where the left hip takes the hands through impact with a quick turn, and the hands still appear very low. What I saw looked very much like the clinic swing. The ball flight appeared to be straight, but was probably falling off at the end, I was watching him, not the ball.
[/quote]
3 left wrist conditions per TGM: cocked, level, and uncocked. Level is not uncocked, as you stated.
[/quote]

4-B-3 The Wrist is UNCOCKED at any point from LEVEL to the maximum UNCOCKED condition.

So Level is the minimum uncocked position. If not, what is the minimum uncocked position? If you say anything below Level, I can find a position above it bigger than your minimum, but less than Level, which would contradict your answer.

[notsohard]

[quote name='virtuoso' timestamp='1418232792' post='10572813']
Here is this morning warm up. Couple things a little better, couple things still crappy.
[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTqE1udpY94&list=UU8KnRUrVF2cOn_VC6U4ZMNQ[/media]
[/quote]

looks good enough to score decently.
watching you hitting balls away in that session, did you have anything particular in mind while hitting away.

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1418258081' post='10575205']
4-B-3 The Wrist is UNCOCKED at any point from LEVEL to the maximum UNCOCKED condition.

So Level is the minimum uncocked position. If not, what is the minimum uncocked position? If you say anything below Level, I can find a position above it bigger than your minimum, but less than Level, which would contradict your answer.
[/quote]

Cocked, level and uncocked are all positions on the number line. Level is 0. 0 is not a 1 (accumulating/cocking)...or a -1(releasing/uncocking) it is just 0. A LEVEL condition. Once you get into the range of uncocking...aka NOT in a level condition then it isnt a 0 anymore.

Its not a "level but I might as well say uncocked because I like to win on the internet" condition.

[virtuoso]

[quote name='Redjeep83' timestamp='1418185215' post='10570799']
[quote name='virtuoso' timestamp='1418173027' post='10569477']
Back to work on this. Haven't swung much in the last few months so the same mechanical problems reside. But, I have some good ideas of how to proceed.

The swing as of today. Shaft still loops behind me, left shoulder dives, not enough lordosis, right hip too high, and hips out racing arms at the beginning of the downswing....steming form a bad transition sequence.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SzIh3EKBxQ&list=UU8KnRUrVF2cOn_VC6U4ZMNQ[/media]
[/quote]

Nice swing, work on your swing by yourself or with someone else?
[/quote]

Mostly by myself. Sometimes my boss takes a look.