Erin Hills - Not in golf digest's top 100 courses??

[Owen4511]

And it's hosting the 2017 us open?

Just wanted some other people's input...the course is obviously well regarded given the fact that it's hosted the us am this year and will be getting the 2017 Open...any thoughts on why golf digest dogged it? They didn't even list it in the best courses of Wisconsin!!!

The course looks awesome...hard obviously! Give me some thoughts!

[ethanlculver]

Ehh, it looks alright but it's definitely not my type of course. It's different and unique but to me it's ugly and I just don't like those types of courses. Maybe the creators of the top 100 list agree with me. Hopefully it will provide some good golf though in 2017.

[misterlau]

Why is the fact that it's hosting a future open relevant to it making the list? You don't really expect a US Open candidate to play or look the same in 6 years do you?

[oldpalchamp]

Ron Whitten the golf course reviewer for Golf Digest co-designed the course. That is why it is not ranked. The magazine considered it a conflict of interest.

[Owen4511]

Now there's an answer!

[Owen4511]

And I think it's strange...that's why I posted this. You go from your traditional us open venues, pebble, oakmont, merion, shinnecock, all in top 10, to a course unranked. I'd say it's worth asking the question!

[moonshine]

Those greens look like they could be made unplayable for sure. Some of the undulation and pin placements just look like punishment, nothing else. I don't mind the layout and the look, but IMO just not a place where "good" design should be mentioned.

[tnord]

you guys are weenies.

i thought the place looked great, and somebody from the USGA mentioned during their visit to the us am that they really wouldn't have to do much to the place in preparation for the open.

what little i saw reminded me of my favorite course in the country, Prairie Dunes in Hutchinson KS. multiple shot options on every hole, natural layout, minimal water, and fast greens. looked great and i'd love to play it.

[td10]

I think GD is more focused on aesthetics than it is of the unique characteristics of a course. Glaciers!

Weird greens tho.

[moonshine]

Designing par 5 holes that are reachable but not receptive to approach shots is not good design. I enjoyed watching plainfield this weekend, but no good practice area means no join for me.

[mrgo26]

One of the main reasons the USGA picked this course for the open was due to the many possibilities of tee boxes. There are a couple of holes where the yardage can change over 100 yards for those certain holes depending on which tee box is used. Truly unique and it will give the players more to think about before teeing off on the same hole each round.

I live 30 min away, played it and watched the US AM this past week. it's a great course and VERY challenging!

[kg92lefty]

they're making it easier for the open so maybe it will be in there then. But the Golf Digest list is all about how the course treats the reviewer and his buddies and how much money they give GD. For example: Wolf Creek, looks cool on the web but its actually it s*** shape, they pay a lot of $$$$ for their ranking. Erin Hills is probably not paying golf digest.

[mglynn10]

Some bold statements in here. Erin Hills is one of the coolest courses to see and is definitely challenging. Pretty crazy to hear someone think it's ugly. May as well dogg on Whistling Straights then too

[CPSOX]

Erin Hills isn't a top 100 course under any circumstance.

[zonacats23]

Erin Hills would definetly be in the top 100 if it weren't for the fact that, RON WHITTEN, WHO IS A PAID EMPLOYEE OF GOLF DIGEST, HELPED BUILD THE COURSE. AND HE THOUGHT IF ERIN HILLS WAS RANKED IN TOP 100, THAT PEOPLE WOULD SAY IT'S ONLY CAUSE HE WORKS FOR GOLF DIGEST. that's the reason. erin hills deserves to be on that list. as far as it getting a US OPEN over the "traditional" courses...I love it. bring in the new(chambers bay). I'm tired of the Pebble's.

[melo]

While I believe that conflict of interest might be the reason for erin hills exclusion, what someone mentioned above is correct, courses pay A LOT of money in advertising, marketing, etc fees to golf digest to be included. This is exactly what happened to a VERY prominent and suddenly VERY highly ranked course in Virginia.

[CPSOX]

[quote name='zonacats23' timestamp='1317785640' post='3626737']
Erin Hills would definetly be in the top 100 if it weren't for the fact that, RON WHITTEN, WHO IS A PAID EMPLOYEE OF GOLF DIGEST, HELPED BUILD THE COURSE. AND HE THOUGHT IF ERIN HILLS WAS RANKED IN TOP 100, THAT PEOPLE WOULD SAY IT'S ONLY CAUSE HE WORKS FOR GOLF DIGEST. that's the reason. erin hills deserves to be on that list. as far as it getting a US OPEN over the "traditional" courses...I love it. bring in the new(chambers bay). I'm tired of the Pebble's.
[/quote]


Lol....think again. Not to mention, Whitten wasn't consulted with on the recent changes either. The golf course isn't a top 100 with or without him.

[zonacats23]

LOL, think again? Your argument about the changes is pretty lame. how many times has Augusta been changed? pretty sure everyone still considers it an Alister MacKenzie course.

[CPSOX]

Exactly how many of the Golf Digest US Top 100 have you played? Better yet, make a list and let us know where you think Erin Hills fits. I'm interested in how you come to your conclusion.

[sabram]

Whether or not you like the course, the statements that it is not a "top 100 course" depends on whether you mean top 100 overall or top 100 that the public can play. It pretty clearly is not a top 100 overall course. It doesn't make the Golf Week or Golf magazine top 100, which IMO are probably a little better than the GD list.

Golf Week has two lists... the first is a top 200 courses in the U.S. designed before 1960 ("classic") and a top 200 U.S. from 1960 on ("modern") Erin Hills is #189 on the modern list. If they combined the lists it would be around #400 overall in the U.S. But if you only included the public access courses from the two GW lists, Erin Hills would be in the top 100 Public courses in the U.S. Golf Week has Erin Hills as the #5 public course in Wisconsoin.

Golf Magazine has 3 lists - top 100 world, top 100 U.S. and top 100 public U.S. Erin hills doesn't make the first two. It was #35 on the 2010 top 100 Public U.S.

IMO I don't think Erin Hills would make anyone's top 100 courses in the world or top 100 in the U.S., but it's not unreasonable to think of it as a top 100 U.S. public course (the GW and GM listst prove that) I have no doubt that it would make GD's top 100 public list but for the conflict due to Whitten's involvement with both GD and the course.

[zonacats23]

First of all I'm sure I'm no where near 95% of most people on this board when it comes to playing top 100 courses. But I'll give you my list of favorites I've played. Top 100 and Non top 100.

1. Medinah
2. Whistling Straits(Straits)
3. Kiawah Island(Ocean)
4. TPC Sawgrass(Stadium)
5. Rich Harvest Farms
6. Erin Hills
7. The Prairie Club(Dunes)
8. Canyata
9. French Lick Resort(Dye)
10. Arcadia Bluffs
11. Blackwolf Run(River)
12. The Harvester
13. Bay Hill
14. Whistling Straits(Irish)
15. World Woods(Pine Barrens)
16. Blackwolf Run(Meadow Valleys)
17. TPC Sawgrass(Valley)
18. Innisbrook
19. Cog Hill(Dubs)
20. TPC Deere Run
21. TPC Tampa
I'm sure you'll find a way to blast my order or laugh at me for not playing as many as you. But, it's" my opinion" on the rankings. And I have basically zero connections for private courses.

[CPSOX]

I won't blast you, but how can you determine a top 100 course when you haven't played many of the others? Top 100 is crazy good at two per state.....Erin Hills isn't in the top 5 in WI, IMO.

I'm not saying it's an awful course.....but it's absence from the rankings is not just b/c Whitten had some role in it's design.

[melo]

Let's think of the top 100 this way, the state of California has at MINIMUM 13 of the top 100 courses. Pebble, Spyglass, The Links, Pasatiempo, Olympic, San Francisco Golf Club, Cypress, Riviera, Los Angeles CC, The Preserve, La Quinta, Mayacama, and Monterey Peninsula. That list doesn't include The Institute, Grand Del Mar, Poppy Hills, PGA West, Torrey Pines, Bel-Aire CC, Sherwood CC, and Shady Canyon. That's 21 courses and I didn't even include CourdeVale, which is a PGA tour stop. I've never played Erin Hills, but I've played Whistling and Blackwolf, which are amazing courses, but I wouldn't put them in the same class as at least 5 or 6 of the top Cali courses. For Erin to be rated well below those 3 just in the state of Wisconsin alone, tells me that all those courses in NC, NY, and Florida would make it very difficult to make a case for top 100...As someone else said, if you're talking about the top 100 public there is a better case, but I'd still find it hard to believe.

[farmer]

Doesn't Golf Digest have a panel that plays and rates courses? Conflict of interest or not, Whitten would only have one vote. If EH is not rated, the panel obviously did not think it worthy of rating.

[zonacats23]

youre right i haven't played alot. but i've played #'s 17 straits, 23 medinah, 26 kiawah, 39 canyata, 41 sawgrass, 49 arcadia, 58 rich harvest, and 71 blackwolf. I've walked Pebble, Torrey Pines, and Bethpage. So I know what a top 100 course is. But like i said, it's my opinion. you have yours and i have mine. some courses pay the magazines money, some don't. Some are ranked higher because their conditioning is better. Example, would whistling straits be ranked higher if it had prestine bent grass fairways? it would get better numbers in that category but it doesn't fit the course.(which Erin Hills is the same way) Some people hate Rich Harvest Farms because of the routing. I could care less. I just look at each individual hole. Some also say it's "tricked up". once again, it doesn't bother me at all. where does it say a course has to be built a certain way. Everyone has there list of favorites, they all are different. if it weren't for opinions, we wouldn't have this message board.

[CPSOX]

EH's conditioning has nothing to do with it. The courses at Bandon are a perfect example....raters understand the style of conditioning that goes along with the environment. Heck, Maidstone does't have one single sprinkler head on the course. Play a few more on the two coasts and I think you'll realize there are a lot of really great courses out there and EH's just doesn't stack up.

[WhiteStake]

Something that hasn't been talked about in this thread is the size or scale of EH. It's a huge golf course. This, obviously, makes it an ideal venue for a US Open. Lots of room for big crowds and numerous corporate tents, etc. This is a major reason the USGA selected it for the '17 Open.

I have played the course, and I can understand where somebody would/wouldn't put it on a top 100 list. That type of ranking is so subjective, that it's like trying to separate the "fly-s*** from the pepper." Imagine a list of the world's 100 most beautiful women. Who could argue that only their list was the right one? Kind of a waste of time if you ask me.

I will add that I think the course is worthy of a US Open. Every club in the bag is in play, and I think it has a very beautiful and dramatic look. Each to his own.

[melo]

[quote name='WhiteStake' timestamp='1318177760' post='3647969']
Something that hasn't been talked about in this thread is the size or scale of EH. It's a huge golf course. This, obviously, makes it an ideal venue for a US Open. Lots of room for big crowds and numerous corporate tents, etc. This is a major reason the USGA selected it for the '17 Open.

I have played the course, and I can understand where somebody would/wouldn't put it on a top 100 list. That type of ranking is so subjective, that it's like trying to separate the "fly-s*** from the pepper." Imagine a list of the world's 100 most beautiful women. Who could argue that only their list was the right one? Kind of a waste of time if you ask me.

I will add that I think the course is worthy of a US Open. Every club in the bag is in play, and I think it has a very beautiful and dramatic look. Each to his own.
[/quote]

+1 I remember playing primland (13 on the top 100) and thinking, this place should host a major SOON. Then realizing bc of the mountain setting there just isn't any room at all for galleries of people. If you talk to some people in the USGA or PGA of america, you realize how many clubs they would like to have host a major that either WON'T (La CC, San Francisco GC) or just CAN'T logistically (parking, bleachers, galleries, etc). It's really tough and takes a very particular type of course.

[zonacats23]

Ok CP, you get me on some courses so I can see for myself.

[sabram]

[quote name='farmer' timestamp='1318103776' post='3644693']
Doesn't Golf Digest have a panel that plays and rates courses? Conflict of interest or not, Whitten would only have one vote. If EH is not rated, [u]the panel obviously did not think it worthy of rating[/u].
[/quote]

That is not correct. Because a senior member of the magazine's editorial staff (Whitten) helped design the course they made a decision not to inlcude it in their rankings however it was rated. If the raters rated it #1 in the country it still would not have been on the GD list. Its absemnce from the GD list has nothing to do with how the raters rated it.