I think we're going overboard with the new club hype

[leoh923]

My scores may not be any better, but as age creeps up, and my arthritis, back, and knees cause me more issues, the new equipment allows me to play at about the same level as I did 10 or 15 years ago.

[Pepperturbo]

NOPE - spot on. I hate to speak the obvious Golfwrx, is now similar to golf rags, TV commercials and equipment advertisements. Seldom about what goes into actually playing the game better. And, most often the equipment is not any better then last years version. They just made it appear different through cosmetics. For technology to evolve, it needs more time then a year.

OEM's learned sometime back to use techie words, and tell people "this club will improve...", that's all cows need to be lead to the buying trough.

[trueblue77]

[quote name='mantan' timestamp='1328109105' post='4191089']
[quote name='J13' timestamp='1328108926' post='4191075']
Irons are more forgiving today then they were which will help. Woods and Balls are drastically better then 10+ years ago. One thing that hasn't change as much is the short game. That is where the scoring comes into play. Your also assuming most people change equipment to score better. I[b] just like to play and test out of the new toys because golf is a game and new clubs is a part of it.[/b]
[/quote]

Exactly. It's that way in every hobby. A newest fishing rod isn't going to make you a better fisherman. A newest camera isn't going to make you a better photographer. The newest guitar isn't going to make you a better musician. Sometimes it's fun to enjoy new stuff...waiting for it to arrive, unboxing it, the thrill of the first few shots. If everybody spent money on things that made them appreciably better in their hobby, life would be kind of boring.
[/quote]


+1 mate i love waiting on new gear getting delivered then heading to the range/course to try it out )

[ssp]

In general I agree with OP. There have been milestone improvements that I think a player should take advantage of.

1. Modern (7-8 years old) 460 driver. A new 420 is fine .... but a milestone was reached with 460 head.
2. Ping Eye 2 or similar 'quality' game improvement club. Milestone.
3. Wedges - different degrees to fill gaps. Milestone.
4. Putters - Ping Anser or newer. Milestone.
5. Golf Ball - we all take advantage of that.

[TJC]

I think that the new equipment is focused more on high handicap golfers and bringing their scores down, but for mid and low handicappers I don't think that it makes much of a difference. When I need new clubs, I always purchase used clubs from 3 or 4 years ago because they're cheap, and I don't think my scores would be any different from what they would be with "the newest and greatest" clubs.

[lightningbolt444]

Hmmmm it is an interesting thought. Do I think there is much of a difference in the offerings over the last couple years no not at all. But I like to have new equipment and like to test things out. Now that said equipment now blows the stuff from 20 years ago out of the water and for everyone but premier players yes I think there would be a pretty big difference in score. Shafts have been taking great leaps in the last 15 or so years and I think that often gets overlooked and most people think it is head technology. I think the biggest advances come from shafts personally especially in recent years where the cor has been maxed on drivers and is now getting close or at it on some fairway woods.

That said I have always been to the thinking of take a great ballstriker and put anything in his hand and he will hit it well. I also want to say some of the so called advances I think could be done in different ways. I am still not convinced that a 460 driver is the best it may be the easiest to engineer to be forgiving but I think there are other positives to a smaller head. I personally usually hit the smaller heads better than the 460's. I think manufactures could make a driver that is of equal forgiveness and in a smaller footprint but for a long time have been saying this is the max size ( to most people bigger is better with most things not just golf)

Balls have made great leaps no need to touch on that everyone knows about balls. I think the next step needs to be a more durable tour ball with the same characteristics.

So in short I dont think there is a huge difference from year to year but I do think there is say every 5 years or so (depending on the product ). That said I am going to continue getting new clubs every year just because I get bored during the winter and want to do something golf related. I would probably change clubs less if my season was longer ( I will always have a ton of putters).

Its also a product of our society and how we think. How many times do we buy new cars when the old one is ok? I know many people that buy new cars every 2-3 years and get very small upgrades by doing so. People like new shiny things it is what keeps companies in business if we all used stuff until it fell apart we would have even worse economic problems than we do now.

[johnstitch]

Drivers may be longer but they are so much harder to work...ball is where the big difference is, along with breathable clothing and more comfortable shoes. Irons don't make a big difference to a decent ball striker but hybrids are a godsend for higher hcp and seniors / ladies. Wedges are no better than orignal Vokeys, old Wilson Staff and Pings and 691/485/588 Clevelands. I still use a Ping Anser Scottsdale so high tech wands do nothing for my game. What we do have is choice, more lofts, more shafts and way superior grips.

[MelloYello]

There's 2 answers to this.

Will your score drop dramatically because you switched from a set of Burner 1.0's to a set of Burner 2.0's? No. In reality, whatever small difference there is in the same model year to year, the technological ability of the club-maker will not have progressed appreciably far during that point such that you'll save even a stroke. The ability to precisely measure, mill or cast a particular characteristic of that piece of equipment usually doesn't improve something like a golf club substantially over the short term.

Undoubtedly, over the long run technology does increase a club-makers ability to design something that will better suit various players. Now, that assumes we play what we're supposed to. For example, I've met scratch golfers who play Burner irons and I've met scratch players who play blades. Sometimes the guy who plays the Burners could totally justify playing blades but prefers not to make it hard on himself and sometimes the guy who manages blades simply doesn't have a swing that promotes a blade-style design.

However, that said, I don't think that's what everybody here is discussing.

There is another very intriguing question.

[i]Why do solid players often obsess over what 14 clubs they carry?[/i]

[i]Ex.) Why would the owner of an R11 care about what TaylorMade puts out at all over the next few years?
Ex.) Why would the owner of a 910 D2/D3 care about the introduction of a 911, 912 or 913 driver?[/i]

My philosophy is that we're all searching for an ideal combination of several factors that we rarely find. Appearance, feel, brand name, forgiveness, workability, distance, etc, etc, etc... There are several factors that contribute to folks getting a bit obsessive of it all but I think that generally comes from a good place.

Wanting to find something that you know fits your swing everyday, produces the results you want/need and satisfies your urge to own some symbol. Maybe that 'x-factor' is hip, or cool, or Tiger or something else. Whatever the case, while materialism for the sake of materialism is a bad thing I believe, I would have to say I understand the golf side of it at least to the point that folks genuinely do want to get better and quite honestly, fitting--if properly done--can have a noticeable impact on your game if not due to equipment than because of what it allows you to do more instinctively with your equipment. A very poignant example might be how errant a players shot might because if swing his driver at 95 mph, he is sold a 75g X-flex shaft. He's start swinging harder and trying to lift the ball into the air as well. Ultimately, he'll become a very bad driver because he's fighting his equipment. The importance of basic fitting is very important for this reason. Most of us don't have access to the number of shafts that get talked about on a site like this for example and so the process of fitting ourselves at a high level is done through trial and error.

Furthermore, I learned a long time ago being a good guitar player is fun because of a number of things that go along with it. One of those things is getting ahold of a new guitar. It's fun to play and the designs are so unique that general classes of them have certain very inspiring qualities not to mention that no one is ever the same as the last. A new guitar for me is like a reward for being good at something. The better I am, the more I can do with it so the very guitar itself becomes a reason to work. That cannot be overlooked. New products keep out attention focused (hopefully for more than 6 months).

[Hit em good]

[quote name='Hole_in_8' timestamp='1328125396' post='4192527']
How would Ben Hogan, Bobby Jones, Sam Snead's (etc...) scores look with today's clubs?



[/quote]

I think their scores would be no better today even with new equipment.

Sure, those guys are legendary, but today's tour pros have had specialized coaches since youth, are superb athletes, and are the "cream of the crop" vs. thousands more elite level players than were available in the 50's and 60's. The level of competition is not the same.

[spring70]

[quote name='Hit em good' timestamp='1328107301' post='4190955']
I don't mean to be a "Debbie Downer", but I predict in 4 years, we'll be talking about the "newest" Ping iron (or any other new iron for that matter), and about how much better the "new" iron is compared to the I20......, [b][u]However[/u][/b] Our scores won't be any better with the new iron than they are today.

I think we are buying in to the hype with these new offerings. The improvements are so minute and incremental, that I don't think they actually will make a difference to our scores.

If you disagree, go play 10 rounds with some 1985 Ping Eye 2's, and play 10 rounds with your 2010 model clubs. I predict your scores will be the same.

Am I wrong?
[/quote]

New golf clubs are like beautiful girls, Guys, A new golf club can make you dizzy, like you've been drinking Jack and Coke all morning. they can make you feel high full of the single greatest commodity known to man - promise. Promise of a better day. Promise of a greater hope. Promise of a new tomorrow. This particular aura can be found in the top line of a forged blade In its feel,in its soul, the way it makes every rotten little thing about life seem like it's going to be okay. The new golf club model, guys That's all they are. Bottled promise. Scenes from a brand new day. Hope dancing in stiletto heels.

[wobgon]

[quote name='Hit em good' timestamp='1328131959' post='4193225']
[quote name='Hole_in_8' timestamp='1328125396' post='4192527']
How would Ben Hogan, Bobby Jones, Sam Snead's (etc...) scores look with today's clubs?



[/quote]

I think their scores would be no better today even with new equipment.

Sure, those guys are legendary, but today's tour pros have had specialized coaches since youth, are superb athletes, and are the "cream of the crop" vs. thousands more elite level players than were available in the 50's and 60's. The level of competition is not the same.
[/quote]
To say those guys would be no better with todays equipment is to say that todays players would be just as good with sam sneads equipment. I would take those three in their prime with todays eqipment against just about any three guys on tour today. I might even give one aside......

[Sean2]

Equipment can help if years separate with what you have compared to what there is, but nothing beats a good swing.

That said, for most of us getting new equipment is a hobby as much as anything else.

For others they buy new equipment because they are buying hope.

[Potatohead]

[quote name='wobgon' timestamp='1328137742' post='4193727']
[quote name='Hit em good' timestamp='1328131959' post='4193225']
[quote name='Hole_in_8' timestamp='1328125396' post='4192527']
How would Ben Hogan, Bobby Jones, Sam Snead's (etc...) scores look with today's clubs?



[/quote]

I think their scores would be no better today even with new equipment.

Sure, those guys are legendary, but today's tour pros have had specialized coaches since youth, are superb athletes, and are the "cream of the crop" vs. thousands more elite level players than were available in the 50's and 60's. The level of competition is not the same.
[/quote]
To say those guys would be no better with todays equipment is to say that todays players would be just as good with sam sneads equipment. [b]I would take those three in their prime with todays eqipment against just about any three guys on tour today[/b]. I might even give one aside......
[/quote]

Wow

[Hit em good]

[quote name='wobgon' timestamp='1328137742' post='4193727']
[quote name='Hit em good' timestamp='1328131959' post='4193225']
[quote name='Hole_in_8' timestamp='1328125396' post='4192527']
How would Ben Hogan, Bobby Jones, Sam Snead's (etc...) scores look with today's clubs?



[/quote]

I think their scores would be no better today even with new equipment.

Sure, those guys are legendary, but today's tour pros have had specialized coaches since youth, are superb athletes, and are the "cream of the crop" vs. thousands more elite level players than were available in the 50's and 60's. The level of competition is not the same.
[/quote]
To say those guys would be no better with todays equipment is to say that todays players would be just as good with sam sneads equipment. I would take those three in their prime with todays eqipment against just about any three guys on tour today. I might even give one aside......
[/quote]


Maybe so , but not neccessarily... It was a different culture and preparation expectation. Old Tom Morris was surely successful in his day, but that does not neccessarily mean he would win majors in today's environment against today's pros. He might not have the interest to put in the preparation that today's pros put in.
Heck, who knows? We're just speculating for fun anyway...

[bellview17]

I agree, I get my score from what I do.
Clubs have gotten better over the last 20 years.

But, I am a ho for life. Building, buying, trying, looking at golf clubs.

[lang30]

Crap, why wasn't this thread available to me yesterday when I ordered a set of G20's to replace my G10's... So I'm still going to be mediocre at best? Damn you Ping!

The reason I chose to make the purchase can be summed up by a rap song I once heard... "I'm a ho, you know I'm a ho. How do you know because I told you so." That's not completely true, I'm more of an aspiring ho. To those of you on this site who inspire me to be a bigger ho, my wallet has a message - F.U.

Bottom line, I can't wait to unbox the new irons and my buddy is the beneficiary of a well cared for set of G10's at a great price. Win win.

[MtlJeff]

I still ho a bit, but i rarely buy anything new anymore, and it's because i agree with the OP. If i want a driver i'm buying the one from 2 years ago that's 139$ because i know if i get the right shaft it's just as good. I guarantee you there isn't a driver on the market today that will perform much better then what i have in the bag now with the same shaft. I like having new stuff because we all do....but i buy discounted stuff only. Not a chance in heck i'll spend 499 on a driver or 275 on a 3 wood no matter how far i can supposedly hit my ballz with it

[awil]

M switching to new clubs the woods and putTers so they fit me and also new irons and wedges that fit me and are leagal looking to play high level ameteur golf in a year so that i will eventually need so why not now. And its all being custom fit biput of course its going to be nike !

[bobfoster]

[quote name='mantan' timestamp='1328109105' post='4191089']
Exactly. It's that way in every hobby. A newest fishing rod isn't going to make you a better fisherman. A newest camera isn't going to make you a better photographer. The newest guitar isn't going to make you a better musician. Sometimes it's fun to enjoy new stuff...waiting for it to arrive, unboxing it, the thrill of the first few shots. If everybody spent money on things that made them appreciably better in their hobby, life would be kind of boring.
[/quote]

THIS!!!

But only in part.

I do think buying an entirely new kit every year will at best - as the OP says - produce very incremental changes in scores.

However, I do think there are generational changes in technology ... saying there is no appreciable difference between 2011 and 2012 clubs may be true ... sayinf there is no appreciable difference between 2011 technology and 1998 technology ... yeah, IMO there definatly is.

I've been playing since the 60s ... my scores have varied quite a bit over the decades ... largely due to the amount of time an energy I put into the game (some years, I've hardly played because life intruded ... other years I not only play a lot, but hit the practice range a lot as well).

That, however, does not mean that equipment does not play a role. I've played a lot the last couple of years - so the game is as good as I'll can probably get it - and am still a single digit capper. As I was in my 20s. My drives (as a 54 year old) are probably 10-20 yards shorter than they were when I was a kid ... but I believe the reason I can still get my game close to what it was has something to do with equipment. If I tried to hit a 1960s ball with a persimmon driver ... would I only be 15 yards shorter than I was in 1965? Good grief no ... In the 60s I had a 2i (and occasionally a 1i) in my bag and they were blades. Today? My 3i has been exchanged for a hybrid ... something that didn't even exist.

Point is ... my bag gets changed completely pretty much every year or two - largely for the reasons stated by mantan - this is my favorite hobby ... and there really is nothing as sweet as that great feeling I get walking onto a local course with a brand new set of irons.

That said, however, saying that equipment makes absolutely no difference ... may be rather overstating things ...

[wobgon]

[quote name='Hit em good' timestamp='1328139691' post='4193863']
[quote name='wobgon' timestamp='1328137742' post='4193727']
[quote name='Hit em good' timestamp='1328131959' post='4193225']
[quote name='Hole_in_8' timestamp='1328125396' post='4192527']
How would Ben Hogan, Bobby Jones, Sam Snead's (etc...) scores look with today's clubs?



[/quote]

I think their scores would be no better today even with new equipment.

Sure, those guys are legendary, but today's tour pros have had specialized coaches since youth, are superb athletes, and are the "cream of the crop" vs. thousands more elite level players than were available in the 50's and 60's. The level of competition is not the same.
[/quote]
To say those guys would be no better with todays equipment is to say that todays players would be just as good with sam sneads equipment. I would take those three in their prime with todays eqipment against just about any three guys on tour today. I might even give one aside......
[/quote]


Maybe so , but not neccessarily... It was a different culture and preparation expectation. Old Tom Morris was surely successful in his day, but that does not neccessarily mean he would win majors in today's environment against today's pros. He might not have the interest to put in the preparation that today's pros put in.
Heck, who knows? We're just speculating for fun anyway...
[/quote]


It sure would be fun if there was a way to see it though, wouldn't it? Guess we will just have to speculate.

[njandy]

Ok how about a more concrete example. I am currently playing a 5-6 yr old FT3 driver with a UST Proforce V2 shaft. Do you think that a new driver would gain yardage? Be more accurate? Is that enought time for the technology to make a difference?

[Showtime]

My range has a bunch of old irons sitting around from northwest, wilsons, prostaff, ping ect, I picked up a old titliest DCI i think? and put it up against my new ap1 712's and it was'nt even close, more distance, better accuracy, way better feel, and 100% better forgiveness. Yes my irons will lower my scores as they have the past couple years.

Drivers on the other hand I have to believe are almost maxed out any driver sold in the last 5-7 years is pretty damn close in terms of distane anyways, maybe the forgivness is a bit better and the shaft offerings help you optimize your swing but eventually there won't be anything more they can do to any club to make it better unless rules change for COR values and other parameters are changed. But as of now there still improving ever so slightly,

[BigHook25]

I would say year to year there is minimal difference but over the last 10-20 years we have seen lots of great golf technology. I think one reason why you don't see it in scores is because of short game. Hitting a driver further or an iron being more accurate is helpful, but you still see so many people struggle inside of 100 yards or make stupid mistakes. I also think golf courses have adapted. There has been a lot of championship courses built over the last 10-15 years, and the techology of keeping some of these courses in fast and great shape has improved.

With that said, the biggest differences to me are the driver and the golf ball. Drivers are bigger, more forgiving, better shafts, better fitting, and more options. Some of these drivers you can mishit the ball further than hitting the sweet spot on old drivers. You can now get golfballs that are soft without a lack of distance. Remember hitting balatas and the tour prestige...loss of distance and a lot more distance lost if you didn't hit it flush. I still think a good iron 10 years ago won't be that much different than an iron today. Once again, you have more options with clubs and irons to choose from. The irons overall are still better but not to extent the drivers, fairway woods, hybrids, and golf balls have progressed.

[KarstenK]

Take away new club hype and GolfWrx would get pretty quiet in several forums. It's fun and entertaining to read people get sucked in by marketing. I am not innocent either so I'm not pointing fingers. I do buy and sell alot on Ebay trying out clubs and enjoying new or relatively new equipment each year. Overall I am positive I can shoot better scores today than the bag I had in the late 90s, its noticeably more forgiving to me.

[trueblue77]

[quote name='njandy' timestamp='1328148991' post='4194709']
Ok how about a more concrete example. I am currently playing a 5-6 yr old FT3 driver with a UST Proforce V2 shaft. Do you think that a new driver would gain yardage? Be more accurate? Is that enought time for the technology to make a difference?


[/quote]
Hi mate iam not saying to u go out and buy a new driver and u will gain an extra 20 yrds but when u think about the shaft in ur FT3 5/6 years of usage seams as if its served u well. shaft technology in those 5/6 years has came on leaps and bounds and to b truthfull imo its all about the shaft