I think we're going overboard with the new club hype

[Hit em good]

Bottom line: Are your scores actually lower

I don't mean to be a "Debbie Downer", but I predict in 4 years, we'll be talking about the "newest" Ping iron (or any other new iron for that matter), and about how much better the "new" iron is compared to the I20......, However Our scores won't be any better with the new iron than they are today.

I think we are buying in to the hype with these new offerings. The improvements are so minute and incremental, that I don't think they actually will make a difference to our scores.

If you disagree, go play 10 rounds with some 1985 Ping Eye 2's, and play 10 rounds with your 2010 model clubs. I predict your scores will be the same.

Am I wrong?

[1970.gpp]

I don't think you're wrong. Oftentimes, we're delusional. However, I contend that many of the newer offerings feel/sound better, and that could give a player a feeling of improvement in spite of the fact that scores are more or less the same.

[scratchswinger]

I agree with irons and wedges. But you will save strokes using todays woods and balls. My driver is much longer and accurate, didn't have hybrids in 85 and the balls are ten times better.

[Gbyeball]

Of course you are wrong, I have to believe you are wrong, how else could I justify another purchase if I didn't think you were wrong

 

Joking aside I do agree with you, companies have to sell product to stay in business and to get us to buy they have to talk it up. That being said we are in a great place as consumers with all the choices available, proper fitting being the biggest and best improvement presently. I do think there is product out there that will give us better results than we might currently have. Does it mean lower scores, probably not, lessons and proper practice will. But OMG some of that glittering new goodness sure is tempting.

[Myherobobhope]

I've been playing the same irons for 15 years. I have tried to replace them once or try, but subjectively couldn't find a club to do it... my new goal is to get custom fitted into a set of Wishon irons and play them for the next 10 years...

I still love my 15 year old three wood, but will likely replace it with the latest and greatest...

I also want comforming wedges... that will hopefully last me a few years.

I'm curious to see if I play noticeably better golf with a set of new, custom fit irons. I think the custom fit will have more impact than the new... I also think that the wave of the future is going to be custom fit golf clubs built exactly to spec... I should get my Six Sigma black belt and move back to California...

[J13]

Irons are more forgiving today then they were which will help. Woods and Balls are drastically better then 10+ years ago. One thing that hasn't change as much is the short game. That is where the scoring comes into play. Your also assuming most people change equipment to score better. I just like to play and test out of the new toys because golf is a game and new clubs is a part of it.

[mantan]

[quote name='J13' timestamp='1328108926' post='4191075']
Irons are more forgiving today then they were which will help. Woods and Balls are drastically better then 10+ years ago. One thing that hasn't change as much is the short game. That is where the scoring comes into play. Your also assuming most people change equipment to score better. I[b] just like to play and test out of the new toys because golf is a game and new clubs is a part of it.[/b]
[/quote]

Exactly. It's that way in every hobby. A newest fishing rod isn't going to make you a better fisherman. A newest camera isn't going to make you a better photographer. The newest guitar isn't going to make you a better musician. Sometimes it's fun to enjoy new stuff...waiting for it to arrive, unboxing it, the thrill of the first few shots. If everybody spent money on things that made them appreciably better in their hobby, life would be kind of boring.

[Jamboy72]

This gets quickly to a discussion of what types of equipment changes really manifest themselves into lower scores...IMO, the changes in drivers (titanium and graphite shafts) and the advances in ball technology have had the greatest impact on the game...now, this may or may not have a huge impact on actual scores as courses have changed a lot as well...you also have to consider that in order to drop strokes (especially once you get to a single digit situation) you have to do most things better to see any reduction in scores...you have to drive it better (further and more accurately), hit more greens and putt and chip better...

[rvgolfer]

I would respectfully disagree with the OP as well, when the age of clubs is more than 5 years difference. In 1972 I bought a brand new set of Wilson Staff blades,,and I just wont believe that current 2012 blades are equal, they are now far better clubs, with better shafts and much better tech in overall head design.

However, switching irons every single year, say for example, upgrading from G-15 irons to G-20's wont likely improve your game all that much. Same with woods and hybrids, one year's difference in tech simply doesnt buy you all that much in either tech or score.

If you switch to a completely different iron or woods, ie from blades to GI, or perhaps even GI to blades, or/and at the same time move from 1990 tech to 2012 tech, I firmly believe you will see score improvement. It's likely you will get more distance, your mishits will be better, and your shot dispersion will be more accurate.

Using your example of Ping Eye 2,s and the late 80's time frame, it would be normal to see both a 3 and 4 iron, and likely even a 2 iron in the bag. On the other end, no gap wedge, and not lob wedge.

There is another issue as well, moving up to newer tech also helps your game as you age. Sure if I was 40 again, my scores wouldnt likely be much different, but lets also remember that at 40 you arent the same player as when you get into your 60's.

Given the choice, playing G-20's at 65, or getting a chance to be 40 again,,,I'd gladly play my old Ping Eye 2's,,,2 iron as well.

And my last point, if you didnt have some new tech and clubs to covet each year, golf in general wouldnt be as interesting, so yes,,next year we will all be interested in the latest and greatest,,perhaps not to buy, but certainly to be excited about.

[mickeytbones]

Agree in part, but disagree in part.

I am not a fan of how many folks (particularly here) talk about exotic brands/grinds and speak about how much better they are than other offerings.

I met up with a few players while vacationing in Florida a few years back (2008--I had just gotten my Macgregor Pro-C irons which I still play) and got to play at a very nice private club. On the range, I saw a guy who I assumed to be an ex pro of some sort with a bag full of bling. I was positioned right next to him. He continued to comment about his equipment to the gent on the opposite side, as he repeatedly hit mediocre shot after mediocre shot. His bag literally looked like a pro's: All the newest Titleist clubs (from driver to wedges, with the exception of an Exotics 3 wood) and a custom stamped Cameron, with the kicker being he's got his name on his bag.

I end up getting paired with him, my friend (the reason I got to play this course) and a guy with a bag full of Ping gear (I beleive G5 driver, Taylormade fairways, G2 irons 3-U, a well worn Cleveland sand wedge and a very old Anser). All of the clubs other than the Ping irons look beat up. My friend shoots a 79, I shoot an 85, the Titleist staffer shoots a 95, and the guy with the G2s? A 68. Turns out the guy is the club champion multiple times.

My favorite part of the round is listening to Titleist boy yammer on about how he is going to play a high draw, or a running cut, and seeing the caddy trying to hold back the laughter. Club champ played what looked like a very casual round, hitting mostly straight shots with nice tight draw knockdowns because of the wind.

The guys at the club love the Titleist guy because he is the opposite of the sandbagger and they are always in his pocket. They were telling me stories about this guy at the bar afterwards. I felt much better about the mediocre status of my game after having played this round at a ritzy place where I assumed everyone would be a "player".

With that being said, I believe that getting properly fit is absolutely necessary in today's world of the game, with the caveat being that you must have a technically sound swing FIRST. No amount of tech is going to fix club throwaway, an early release, an over the top move, and/or not having your hands in front of the ball at impact.

Now that I have made the corrections to my swing, by meeting on a somewhat regular basis with a very qualified golf professional, I feel ready this year to be fit for a new set of clubs. But I feel the better a player is, the more he/she will benefit from technology because when they are being fit, they will have a repeatable, technically sound swing.

I'm rambling now, but I could go on.

[MattMo]

[quote name='mantan' timestamp='1328109105' post='4191089']
[quote name='J13' timestamp='1328108926' post='4191075']
Irons are more forgiving today then they were which will help. Woods and Balls are drastically better then 10+ years ago. One thing that hasn't change as much is the short game. That is where the scoring comes into play. Your also assuming most people change equipment to score better. I[b] just like to play and test out of the new toys because golf is a game and new clubs is a part of it.[/b]
[/quote]

Exactly. It's that way in every hobby. A newest fishing rod isn't going to make you a better fisherman. A newest camera isn't going to make you a better photographer. The newest guitar isn't going to make you a better musician. Sometimes it's fun to enjoy new stuff...waiting for it to arrive, unboxing it, the thrill of the first few shots. If everybody spent money on things that made them appreciably better in their hobby, life would be kind of boring.
[/quote]

Mantan, that's probably one of the best explanations / justifications I've heard regarding new stuff. I had some of my best score with my i5's and ISI's that I used 5 years ago. Since then, well let's see, I've used G5's, G10's and G15's. Scores still the same, but for me, it's always been the what-if factor. What-if I got the newer irons. I hear everyone raving about them. You still have to put a good swing on it though.

[jimmies78]

I looked at the Hogan timeline of clubs recently and even Hogan was pumping out a new set of irons every year or two at most,,,,,granted they were not always replacing like for like....but still.

it has always happened and it always will and we will keep on buying

[PreppySlapCut]

Wait, you mean, we're getting all caught up in the hype of new golf equipment while chatting on a forum devoted almost entirely to the subject of golf equipment?!?

[HateTheHighDraw]

Enjoyment of the game is not necessarily directly tied to lower scores. If the club sounds and feels better the player, then they may have increased enjoyment, regardless of the quality of a particular shot. Also, enjoyment may come from improving a certain aspect of a player's game, due to a new sound/feel. Particularly drivers and putters.

[rhyno18]

I think the technology helps the "average" golfer more than anyone else. Low handicappers can play and score with pretty much anything, and hacks with horrible swings are going to be bad no matter what, but me and my 14ish handicap get an awful lot of help from the technology available today. I was putting together a "vacation bag", to leave at the vacation spot my wife and I use so I didn't have to haul my clubs back and forth. I didn't want to leave anything there that had much value, so I put together a bag of older stuff I picked up very cheap. When I was done the set ended up consisting of mid-90's irons, late 90's-early 00's metal woods, wedges and a putter from the same time frame. I took that bag out to my course to see how it would work and really got my feeling hurt at how much worse I played. The forgiveness just isn't there in those older clubs for a guy like me, especially with the woods and longer irons. I had to change up and go with some much newer woods that I could get cheap because of how beat up they were and add in a hybrid. Once I did that I could shoot scores reasonably close to what normally shoot.

[gambit]

I'm gonna say it one more time...if my score looks like crap, I'm going to look good doing it.

[wobgon]

I've seen a bunch of these posts and they always turn into reasons why people buy new clubs. things like i just enjoy trying new stuff. I doubt that anyone would argue that a person can't buy anything they want, any time they want to.The perpose of the post is to ask if the new equipment is improving your score.

[Shapland]

I think the question is an interesting one. I have given in and bought a titanium f11 3 wood. It should (like the RBZ) go an extra 10-15 yards further but will this improve my scores? On the holes I hit 3 wood I would definitely prefer to be 10-15 yards closer but will also I be in the trees more? If it's 10-15 yards longer it will be about the same as my driver. Should I retire my driver?

As a two handicap if this club safes me 1 shot every 3 rounds it will be worth it. The caveat is other parts of my game may also improve over the winter and have a greater effect on the scores. Likewise, parts of the game may get worse but new clubs may save you and the scores remain the same. Always tough to prove causality.

[Shapland]

I think the question is an interesting one. I have given in and bought a titanium f11 3 wood. It should (like the RBZ) go an extra 10-15 yards further but will this improve my scores? On the holes I hit 3 wood I would definitely prefer to be 10-15 yards closer but will also I be in the trees more? If it's 10-15 yards longer it will be about the same as my driver. Should I retire my driver?

As a two handicap if this club saves me 1 shot every 3 rounds it will be worth it. The caveat is other parts of my game may also improve over the winter and have a greater effect on the scores. Likewise, parts of the game may get worse but new clubs may save the day and the scores remain the same. Always tough to prove causality.

[Arpeggi]

Part of the fun of golf is the equipment. Equipment research, custom fitting, getting new shafts. All fun. Also having brand spanking new clubs every season is also cool.

[wobgon]

[quote name='Arperggi' timestamp='1328117285' post='4191795']
Part of the fun of golf is the equipment. Equipment research, custom fitting, getting new shafts. All fun. Also having brand spanking new clubs every season is also cool.
[/quote]

Just what i was talking about several posts back.

[BlkNGld]

All things equal - same player, same off the rack clubs - you may have a point, but they aren't.

There are more fitting options now, and the technology to get an optimal fit is much more readily available than the relative guesswork or leaps of faith that most people had to make even a few years ago.

More importantly, for most of us our bodies change enough over a few years that the optimal fit changes.

But when all is said and done it's what makes it a hobby for most of us. A new car isn't likely to get us to where we're going a lot faster, a Swiss watch doesn't do a better job of telling time than a casio/timex/cell phone, and that expensive pair or running shoes probably doesn't make us go a whole lot faster.

[JoeHatesSnow]

To answer your question, Hit 'em good:

IMO, no, you're not wrong.

[sheppy335]

There is a time when newer is better for a player. Like my BIL was playing knock off Calloways and got A7's from Adams. His scores went down dramaically. He went from an R7 driver to a Calloway RZR HAwk and his driving got better.



But going from R9's to R11's arent going to make a difference most likley but people like to do that.

[bluedot]

[quote name='PreppySlapCut' timestamp='1328113910' post='4191489']
Wait, you mean, we're getting all caught up in the hype of new golf equipment while chatting on a forum devoted almost entirely to the subject of golf equipment?!?
[/quote]

Well said.

With all due respect to the OP, this is an odd forum to hang around if one feels that new clubs are excessively hyped, or doesn't want to talk obsessively about equipment.

[Potatohead]

 

 

I think most people are just stuck in a deepfreeze for 5 months a year and need something to do!

[kafka01]

I agree with OP - what did the average Hcp drop over the last 20-30 years? 1 or 2 strokes? Compared to the money people invest in equipment. But after all it´s everyones choice really. Some want to tinker and play with the newest stuff, some invest the money different and actually become good, some do both.

But equipment helping you - not really. There are actually people out there arguing that the new equipment makes your swing worse and therefore you need all the new gimmicks to help you compensate just to stay even....

[Hole_in_8]

How would Ben Hogan, Bobby Jones, Sam Snead's (etc...) scores look with today's clubs?

[markg603]

[quote name='Myherobobhope' timestamp='1328108853' post='4191063']
I've been playing the same irons for 15 years. I have tried to replace them once or try, but subjectively couldn't find a club to do it... my new goal is to get custom fitted into a set of Wishon irons and play them for the next 10 years...

I still love my 15 year old three wood, but will likely replace it with the latest and greatest...

I also want comforming wedges... that will hopefully last me a few years.

I'm curious to see if I play noticeably better golf with a set of new, custom fit irons. I think the custom fit will have more impact than the new... I also think that the wave of the future is going to be custom fit golf clubs built exactly to spec... I should get my Six Sigma black belt and move back to California...
[/quote]

I'm about 8 years into my fitted Wishon irons and will most likely keep going with these another 8 years. Then get fitted again for new Wishon irons!

[highergr0und]

A lot of people think equipment should matter a lot and expect it to, but in truth, even a fractional difference may be worth it. For a high cap, they might be chasing a bunch of strokes. For a low cap, it's a different game, heck it might be more important to pick well.

Sure, a driver today is a lot better than a driver 20 years ago, but what if the driver that comes out tomorrow (or even a shaft) helps you hit 1 extra fairway a round, or even one every other round. That can drop a scoring average by up to a stroke..... That can be a big deal. What about 2-5 yards of length? Same with irons..... what if that new iron, while still flying the same distance helps a bit with dispersion? Maybe one more green hit, or a little closer to the pin more often...... Is that worth $800? Maybe to some. See here? Hitting one more fairway or green might not even put a dent in a high cap's scores..... but it can have a big impact on the low cap.

There will always be folks who are just happier to be playing new stuff, just like there will always be folks questioning why people would spend money on it because their current clubs are fine. If you know enough about your game, you can easily determine where and how to spend your money to maximize results along with how big of a result is needed to part with a bunch of cash.