Mizuno shaft optimizer. I forgot my recommendations. Can anyone check my numbers?

[jay65]

I would certainly suggest you test your favourite shaft, one flex down from the recommendation.

 

Hi Dave,

 

Just went and had a session with my Pro this morning, and I asked if he would give me a quick swing with the DNA Swing Optimizer. First time in about 4 years that I have been on it, and wanted to see if my readings were any different from what they were 4 years ago, and also see if my Pros' attempts at restructuring my swing had made any difference to how I am delivering the club.

 

The results certainly showed some changes for sure. 4 years ago they were 87, 6,4,4,2. The new readings this morning were 89, 5,2,3,3. So slightly different, I would argue that he has me swinging a little more 'neutral', and the overall result regarding my shot consistency is much better. Another 2 mph Swing speed helps too, and that's from a guy now into his 50's and coming off a real bad virus that's been going around, so I'm feeling pretty 'cr**' at the moment, and freezing cold weather (0*C), with lots of layers on, so overall I'm very pleased.

 

We didn't go into shaft recommendations, so at 89, 5,2,3,3, I wonder if you could be kind enough to give me those recommendation for that batch of numbers please?

 

Thanks

[DaveMac]

 

We didn't go into shaft recommendations, so at 89, 5,2,3,3, I wonder if you could be kind enough to give me those recommendation for that batch of numbers please?

 

 

The recommendations for the new DNA are, Project X 6.0, C Taper S, Project X LZ 6.0. Dynamic Gold AMT X 100.

 

Your slightly smoother tempo makes the recommendations slightly lighter and a touch softer. Pretty handy numbers considering the temperature and the number of layers worn, I guess you are likely to have a few MPH in the tank.

 

Really is, with your swing speed, tempo and late release, you are always going to bounce between (S and X) in the strongest tip section profile shafts from the custom options list, You are obviously a skilled player, so you will quickly be able to identify the feel of a shaft you like. It might be worthwhile trying a couple of the new heavier graphite models (nothing from Mizuno at this weight range I'm afraid) to see if they offer anything extra in terms of feel, especially if you keep your irons for a number of years.

[jay65]

We didn't go into shaft recommendations, so at 89, 5,2,3,3, I wonder if you could be kind enough to give me those recommendation for that batch of numbers please?

 

 

The recommendations for the new DNA are, Project X 6.0, C Taper S, Project X LZ 6.0. Dynamic Gold AMT X 100.

 

Your slightly smoother tempo makes the recommendations slightly lighter and a touch softer. Pretty handy numbers considering the temperature and the number of layers worn, I guess you are likely to have a few MPH in the tank.

 

Really is, with your swing speed, tempo and late release, you are always going to bounce between (S and X) in the strongest tip section profile shafts from the custom options list, You are obviously a skilled player, so you will quickly be able to identify the feel of a shaft you like. It might be worthwhile trying a couple of the new heavier graphite models (nothing from Mizuno at this weight range I'm afraid) to see if they offer anything extra in terms of feel, especially if you keep your irons for a number of years.

 

Thanks for everything Dave, that's really interesting stuff there. To be honest with you, the 3 recommendations there? I don't like the feel of any em!!! Haha. Though to be fair, I haven't tried the Standard C-Taper in donkeys years, so I think I should give that another go. I actually tried both of the Project X 6.0 today, and the LZ version was okay, but didn't wow me, both in terms of feel and performance, the standard Project X is still 'boardy' to my senses, and the AMT feels like a lead pipe.

 

I did put in a KBS Tour X flex into a Titleist 716CB head and the results were excellent to be honest. I've been used to using KBS Tour S for some years now, and even the X Flex has got a familiar feel to it that I like, and seem to get some excellent results with, even though soft stepping it would be my preference. Having said that, I will go and try the C Taper Stiff again, as it's one that I haven't tried for so long, as I said.

 

As for a heavier graphite, I think that's a great idea to go and try at least. Something like the Aerotech 110 or Recoil 125 you mean? I did try the Recoil 95 some time back and was all over the place with it to be fair, so your advice to try a heavier Graphite I think is great advice.

 

Thanks again Dave!

[DaveMac]

Since you have pretty much ruled out the True Temper line on the grounds of feel, I'd guess C Taper will be unlikely to have gotten any more to your liking. The only thing left to try in steel is the Nippon Modus line which might be more to your liking. The new super expensive Oban steel (made by Shimada) has some good feedback in the feel department.

 

There is a raft of options (all costly) in heavier graphite now, all the big players has something in the 110 and up weight category.

[jay65]

Since you have pretty much ruled out the True Temper line on the grounds of feel, I'd guess C Taper will be unlikely to have gotten any more to your liking. The only thing left to try in steel is the Nippon Modus line which might be more to your liking. The new super expensive Oban steel (made by Shimada) has some good feedback in the feel department.

 

There is a raft of options (all costly) in heavier graphite now, all the big players has something in the 110 and up weight category.

 

I just want to try the C-Taper S, even if it is a matter of elimination, and you never know, it may work fine, but I do take on board what you're saying there, and whilst I do agree 100%, I still think it's worth a go. I have until June to make my final decision, so it's not as if I'm in a rush, and it may give me the time and opportunity to get out and try some heavier weighted Graphite like the Aerotech 110, Recoil 125 and if I can find them, the Oban CT-115's. I do want to try the Pro Modus line to compare the 120 X and 130 S or 125 S.

 

Once again Dave, thanks very much for the great advice about the Graphite options, something I hadn't really thought about, so that's great! And if all else fails, I can always go back to ol' fave KBS Tour X SS I guess. Which do just seem to 'work'. Just wanted a few more ideas so that I'm not missing a trick, and you've certainly helped with that.

[bigdriveandy]

I haven't a clue if this thread is still active but I did a search for my numbers and didn't see any. My numbers were 89 4 3 5 7

 

I appreciate any help you may be able to offer for me. I require 1 inch over standard length if that makes the determination any different.

[DaveMac]

I haven't a clue if this thread is still active but I did a search for my numbers and didn't see any. My numbers were 89 4 3 5 7

 

I appreciate any help you may be able to offer for me. I require 1 inch over standard length if that makes the determination any different.

 

The recommendations are KBS Tour S, C Taper Lite S and XP 115 S, number 4 is Modus 105 X.

 

The reasons for the recommendations are a smooth tempo and an early release.

 

Your fitter will advise on if you need to hard step or go up a flex depending on the shaft you finally settle on during testing.

[Greg_ski]

Hello and welcome everyone on the forum! :)

 

Would anyone help me with shaft optimizer results please, all I have is numbers that I have obtained last time I was trying out some clubs at the store.

 

78mph 5 6 4 8

 

What shafts does the software recommend please? Used to use DG Reg (good results for shorter irons, low ball flight in lower irons), DynG XP R & S (had no feel for them), demoed KBS Tour 90 and C-Taper Lite and liked them both but settled with KBS Tour R+. I didn't like Nippon shafts (tried NG950 and 1150 or something to that name), PX 5.5 that I have tried felt stout (opposite to DynG XP). I am looking for an alternative that would help me launch my 5-6 irons higher.

 

Thanks in advance!

[DaveMac]

Hello and welcome everyone on the forum! :)

 

Would anyone help me with shaft optimizer results please, all I have is numbers that I have obtained last time I was trying out some clubs at the store.

 

78mph 5 6 4 8

 

What shafts does the software recommend please? Used to use DG Reg (good results for shorter irons, low ball flight in lower irons), DynG XP R & S (had no feel for them), demoed KBS Tour 90 and C-Taper Lite and liked them both but settled with KBS Tour R+. I didn't like Nippon shafts (tried NG950 and 1150 or something to that name), PX 5.5 that I have tried felt stout (opposite to DynG XP). I am looking for an alternative that would help me launch my 5-6 irons higher.

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Recommendations are, Nippon Modus 105 S, KBS Tour R and KBS Tour 90 S.

 

Optimiser shows a medium tempo and an early release, so mid weight shafts with a bit of tip softness.

 

You could always weaken the lofts on the irons to help with launch. KBS also have a new flighted shaft which might fit the bill, I don't think any of the OEM's are listing it yet, Mizuno certainly not offering it.

[OrangeGravy]

@davemac

I just picked up a Mizuno shaft optimizer club (driver) for really cheap. Pardon my ignorance, but does the wood optimizer only work for drivers? Is there a separate iron version? I've never seen one used in the wild!

 

I haven't seen a driver length Optimiser test club. The MK1 version of the iron test club was a fixed head 6 iron (with an over length shaft) the electronics package was black in colour.

 

Is there a chance you have a hybrid headed version of the MK1 test club?

 

I believe it's actually a Mizuno shaft flex analyzer, not Optimiser. It's definitely a driver though. The electronics unit is black and only has room for one number at a time. Not sure how to use it.

[DaveMac]

 

I believe it's actually a Mizuno shaft flex analyzer, not Optimiser. It's definitely a driver though. The electronics unit is black and only has room for one number at a time. Not sure how to use it.

 

I understand better now I have seen one on ebay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MIZUNO-FLEX-ANALYZER-FLEX-EVALUATION-SYSTEM-74342-/121178687836)

 

I am pretty sure you will get all the current DNA numbers by cycling through the set using the push button, just hold it for a few seconds to clear the readings ready for a new swing.

 

I haven't used one so I don't know what the impact the longer shaft is going to have on the DNA, I think it will require a bit of guesswork compensation for the longer shaft, but the tempo and release factors should be transferable.

 

Ultimately I don't think it will be of any great value to you as a shaft fitting tool or a golf swing practice aid.

[OrangeGravy]

I believe it's actually a Mizuno shaft flex analyzer, not Optimiser. It's definitely a driver though. The electronics unit is black and only has room for one number at a time. Not sure how to use it.

 

I understand better now I have seen one on ebay (http://www.ebay.co.u...2-/121178687836)

 

I am pretty sure you will get all the current DNA numbers by cycling through the set using the push button, just hold it for a few seconds to clear the readings ready for a new swing.

 

I haven't used one so I don't know what the impact the longer shaft is going to have on the DNA, I think it will require a bit of guesswork compensation for the longer shaft, but the tempo and release factors should be transferable.

 

Ultimately I don't think it will be of any great value to you as a shaft fitting tool or a golf swing practice aid.

 

I bought it not realizing it was different. It was only $20 so no big loss. Thanks for the help!

[Sggolf]

Had a fitting at Golf Galaxy. Really left with a bad feeling about the whole process.

I hit nine balls on the optimizer.

Results were 78....4,3,6,5

78....3,3,7,5

81....4,3,7,5

What shafts best fit these numbers?

[DaveMac]

Had a fitting at Golf Galaxy. Really left with a bad feeling about the whole process.

I hit nine balls on the optimizer.

Results were 78....4,3,6,5

78....3,3,7,5

81....4,3,7,5

What shafts best fit these numbers?

 

Kind of hard to dismiss the process when you never completed it. 4 - 5 shots is normal sufficient for the test club.

 

Your starting recommendations are:

Modus 105 R

XP 105 S

KBS Tour 90 S

 

The Recoil 95 F3 is high up on the list if you want to try graphite.

 

The main factor driving the recommendations are your tempo which is smooth suggesting less weight and slightly softer shafts than your base swing speed.

 

You need to try the recommendations and work from there using your own judgement regarding weight and shaft strength.

 

Hope you find something you like.

[Sggolf]

Had a fitting at Golf Galaxy. Really left with a bad feeling about the whole process.

I hit nine balls on the optimizer.

Results were 78....4,3,6,5

78....3,3,7,5

81....4,3,7,5

What shafts best fit these numbers?

 

Kind of hard to dismiss the process when you never completed it. 4 - 5 shots is normal sufficient for the test club.

 

Your starting recommendations are:

Modus 105 R

XP 105 S

KBS Tour S

 

The Recoil 95 F3 is high up on the list if you want to try graphite.

 

The main factor driving the recommendations are your tempo which is smooth suggesting less weight and slightly softer shafts than your base swing speed.

 

You need to try the recommendations and work from there using your own judgement regarding weight and shaft strength.

 

Hope you find something you like.

 

Really thought the fitting was not done correctly....but I've never had one before, so not sure what to expect. It lasted about 30 minutes and consisted of trying 4 shafts. He recommended a shaft around 110g, low mid to mid launch in s flex. I would really like to get another fitting before making any decisions. Options are limited in my area. Thanks for your time.

[DaveMac]

Optimiser recommendations have you starting at the 100 gram range and you are kind of between flexes, softer S or stronger R. Why not go back in with the list above and control you own fitting, it is still in their interest as they potentially make a sale.

 

You will know if 100 or 110 is your preferred weight and should quickly get a sense if you prefer the stronger flex.

 

With limited options sometimes you just have to take the lead, best of luck and hope you get sorted out.

 

 

[Sggolf]

Optimiser recommendations have you starting at the 100 gram range and you are kind of between flexes, softer S or stronger R. Why not go back in with the list above and control you own fitting, it is still in their interest as they potentially make a sale.

 

You will know if 100 or 110 is your preferred weight and should quickly get a sense if you prefer the stronger flex.

 

With limited options sometimes you just have to take the lead, best of luck and hope you get sorted out.

 

Davemac, how would the Nippon ns pro 950 s flex compare with your above 3 recommendations? Thanks again.

[kiwii]

Hopefullly everyone that gets to use the optimizer also gets a little but of time to have a trained professional. The numbers are great but they are a starting point to finding the right shafts. I've seen it wher there are the players will fit into something totally different from the shafts recommended. After getting the suggestions a club fitter should look through the recommendations and further analyze which shaft will be the best and they have the golfer try that shaft. Having someone actually witnessing the swing will help pick the right shaft for the swing.

[jay65]

Hopefullly everyone that gets to use the optimizer also gets a little but of time to have a trained professional. The numbers are great but they are a starting point to finding the right shafts. I've seen it wher there are the players will fit into something totally different from the shafts recommended. After getting the suggestions a club fitter should look through the recommendations and further analyze which shaft will be the best and they have the golfer try that shaft. Having someone actually witnessing the swing will help pick the right shaft for the swing.

 

This is absolutely correct. I was recommended by the optimizer C Taper S, Project C LZ 6.0 and Project X 6.0, but I was totally honest with the Fitter and told him that I didn't like the feel of any of them, and the results with all of those weren't great, and I knew that I was leaving performance on the table. Fortunately for me, he had a good selection of Mizuno shafts because he was a proper Mizuno fitter, and eventually we worked out between us that KBS Tour X flex SS worked best for me, which was way down the recommended list. So guys, be questioning, don't just accept any ol' guff, and take the time to give feedback to the fitter even if it's negative, he can only do what you put into the process. If you blindly accept everything without questioning, you can't come on here later moaning about it.

[DaveMac]

Hopefullly everyone that gets to use the optimizer also gets a little but of time to have a trained professional. The numbers are great but they are a starting point to finding the right shafts. I've seen it wher there are the players will fit into something totally different from the shafts recommended. After getting the suggestions a club fitter should look through the recommendations and further analyze which shaft will be the best and they have the golfer try that shaft. Having someone actually witnessing the swing will help pick the right shaft for the swing.

 

I agree with your comment but..

 

The majority of places where golfer get to use the optimiser and shaft fitting system is at big box stores, possibly some golf professional shops. Unfortunately not many of these establishments will have the experience to visually assess a swing and override the recommendations to the players benefit. IMO in the majority of situations, it is safer to test the recommendations and go from there, based on performance and player feedback.

 

The important thing is as you correctly stated, is the recommendations are just a starting point, testing is required to get to the best shaft. Just to add this is not a goldilocks process for all players, some can't get / feel, a significant difference between several shafts.

[DaveMac]

Davemac, how would the Nippon ns pro 950 s flex compare with your above 3 recommendations? Thanks again.

 

It is just a little more of a classic 'high launch' profile, firm shaft butt section, soft shaft tip section. It isn't a million miles away from the KBS Tour 90 S (corrected in my original post) it is likely to be a little smoother with possibly a little more launch and spin. Super popular model.

[jay65]

Hopefullly everyone that gets to use the optimizer also gets a little but of time to have a trained professional. The numbers are great but they are a starting point to finding the right shafts. I've seen it wher there are the players will fit into something totally different from the shafts recommended. After getting the suggestions a club fitter should look through the recommendations and further analyze which shaft will be the best and they have the golfer try that shaft. Having someone actually witnessing the swing will help pick the right shaft for the swing.

 

I agree with your comment but..

 

The majority of places where golfer get to use the optimiser and shaft fitting system is at big box stores, possibly some golf professional shops. Unfortunately not many of these establishments will have the experience to visually assess a swing and override the recommendations to the players benefit. IMO in the majority of situations, it is safer to test the recommendations and go from there, based on performance and player feedback.

 

The important thing is as you correctly stated, is the recommendations are just a starting point, testing is required to get to the best shaft. Just to add this is not a goldilocks process for all players, some can't get / feel, a significant difference between several shafts.

 

I think that's quite true, and is precisely why I wouldn't use or recommend anyone go to a box box to store to be 'fit'. The onus is on the buyer to seek out proper Demo events or Performance Centres, even if that means travelling, it does cost more if a customer has to travel a good distance, but it's a false economy to get it wrong at a big box store, and the cost and time to travel far outweighs the mistakes that the big box stores are far more likely to make. Not worth the risk in my opinion when a set of Irons are costing £700+ ($1000+) these days.

[Greg_ski]

Maybe a silly question, but here it is... when Mizuno Shaft Optimizer suggests a shaft, it taper tip "base" stiffness? You can trip parallel shaft as much as you like, but taper tip has it's FCM "fixed", it would make more sense to me to take taper tip "nominal flex" or FCM as a base for parallel shaft trimming?

[DaveMac]

Yes the Mizuno recommendations are based on taper tip EI profiles.

 

The difference between taper and parallel versions of the same shaft is a whole other ball game, some are the same, some are very different. Taper tips tend to be constant weight, parallel are descending weights.

 

FCM is only a basic measure of a shaft's strength, it doesn't accurately take into account the change in strength over the shaft length. Stepping can be used to very finely tweak the basic strength of a taper shaft.

 

 

[games]

Yes the Mizuno recommendations are based on taper tip EI profiles.

 

DaveMac, as a fitter, how often do your customers that buy, end up with one of the "top 3" recommended by the analyzer?

 

Conversely, how often does a customer that buys end up with a shaft that is nowhere near the profiles of the top 3?

When that happens, is there a typical reason? Is there an element the fitting software misses? Or, customer vanity? (e.g. They go in wanting Recoils. They test better with KBS Tours. But, they still buy Recoils.)

[DaveMac]

Yes the Mizuno recommendations are based on taper tip EI profiles.

 

DaveMac, as a fitter, how often do your customers that buy, end up with one of the "top 3" recommended by the analyzer?

 

Conversely, how often does a customer that buys end up with a shaft that is nowhere near the profiles of the top 3?

When that happens, is there a typical reason? Is there an element the fitting software misses? Or, customer vanity? (e.g. They go in wanting Recoils. They test better with KBS Tours. But, they still buy Recoils.)

@games

 

First just to say I am not a professional fitter, I am just an enthusiastic amateur with a background in software engineering. I happened upon access to the Optimiser software when it was first released. I had a look under the hood so to speak, so became quite familiar with how it ticked. I have access to the fitting cart and optimiser test club through a couple of connections so i have help fit a few friends but not a large enough number to give an accurate answer to your first question.

 

To the best of my knowledge Mizuno doesn't have a formal process in place, to gather the data required to answer your primary question. The latest release of the software, which was beginning of December 2016, refined the tempo and release factors quite significantly to better accommodate the new range of shafts plus make better use of the new EI data. This means it would be difficult to evaluate the accuracy of the recommendations partly because each version might give different recommendations for specific player DNA.

 

In my testing there are three potential misses with the Optimiser, the first is it has a tendency to fit strong, be it the accuracy of the club head speed measurement or the transition points Mizuno use in the software on a lot of occasions a softer flex than recommendation, is a better fit.

 

The second is the release factor is assessed as the initial loss of wrist hinge in the downswing, this is not a classic casting release but the start of a very progressive release. This miss read can cause a problem with more tip soft shaft profiles than the player actually needs. It is not normally too big a deal because this type of progressive release usually has a reasonable amount of club head speed, so one of the three recommendations tends to be a stronger tip section profile.

 

The final miss is the fact the software is discrete, meaning 76 mph can give very different recommendations than 77 mph in some circumstances. This is just the way software works, in reality there is a 50 / 50 that either recommendation set will contain the best fit shaft.

 

If you throw in the potential for soft and hard stepping to accommodate a player's need for a specific feel or a change in launch, you can see there is plenty of scope for the actual selected shaft to be different than the recommendation.

 

Ultimately the Optimiser / PFS system just a tool, so only as good as the skill of the operator using it.

[Armour248]

I think it's very helpful for getting someone steered in the right direction and then it's up to them to try 3-5 different options and make a decision. A few months ago I used the optimizer and Dave was nice enough to pull my results. A few weeks later I used it again and just pulled the results myself at the store. My top 3 recommendations were all different. Like any amateur golfer my swing can vary from day to day but I am a single digit and play 50+ rounds a year...so my swing mechanics generally aren't drastically different from one day to the next. The change in results made sense to me because during my testing I felt like I was somewhere in between a lot of the options I had tried. I had played S300s for a long time and grown used to the TT DG feel. I ended up going with AMT X100s that were soft stepped once. So far I love them. The optimizer did help get me into the right cluster of shafts and then I filled in the gaps by testing them myself.

[AWE46M3]

I did the optimizer early last year and came out to 92 SS, 7, 5, 2, 7. Recommendations then were: KBS Tour X, PX 6.5, and C Tape Lite X (in that order). Anyone know if the Optimizer would yield different results now with more options having been added? Thanks in advance.

[DaveMac]

I did the optimizer early last year and came out to 92 SS, 7, 5, 2, 7. Recommendations then were: KBS Tour X, PX 6.5, and C Tape Lite X (in that order). Anyone know if the Optimizer would yield different results now with more options having been added? Thanks in advance.

 

Recommendations from the current version of the software are:

 

KBS Tour X

KBS C Taper X

Dynamic Gold X100 Soft Stepped

 

Truthfully, the recommendations seem a little generic, the reasons are the combination of high club head speed and an aggressive tempo, with this combination the software is simply picking the heaviest and strongest options available.

 

I certainly recommend you test of few of the softer / lighter options to confirm your own feel preference (KBS Tour S, Project X LZ 6.5 for example)

[AWE46M3]

Thanks, DaveMac. I've hit the KBS Tour X a few times but personally think I'd go with something a little softer, maybe SS or S+. I play PX right now, but don't like the feel so I ended up going down in flex to get some feel back to make them more tolerable.

 

I was sort of hoping the PX LZ would have shown up on the list - a lot of reviews make them sound like what I'd be looking for - but like you pointed out, the software is probably just pulling the heaviest/stiffest options. I'll definitely be trying some out soon. It's somewhat interesting though that the latest version now recommends the C Taper and X100 SS, whereas last year it recommended PX 6.5 and C Taper Lite X - that's interesting to me because none of these are new Mizuno offerings and have been around for a long time now.