Golf vs pool

[Saijin]

50/50. I still feel a lot of power. I have an aggressivee transition. but I smooth out the initial downswing just so that my shouldrs don't get ahead of my hips and make sure my follow through is complete.

[Obee]

It's not even close, IMHO. A large percentage of people can master basic pool shots in a short amount of time. Not so with golf.

[Mikey Town]

[quote name='Obee' timestamp='1396497970' post='9008773']
It's not even close, IMHO. A large percentage of people can master basic pool shots in a short amount of time. Not so with golf.
[/quote]

Sorry man, but the games are equal... different... but equal.

Mastering a "basic pool shot" is no more playing a game of pool (be it 8-ball, 9-ball, straight pool, one pocket, etc...) than mastering a straight, 2-foot putt is playing a round of golf.

Just because certain aspects of a game are easy to execute (i.e. a short, straight in shot in pool, or a short, straight in putt) does not mean that the game itself is easy to excel at. That's kind of like saying that you can make 100 layups in a row, therefore basketball is easier than baseball.

[Saijin]

Been trying to learn the top english better and gee, not having much luck.

question: target ball is stuck on right rail, do you do bottom right or bottom left english or something else?

Saw a youtube video that says bottom right, but the target ball ended up bouncing off the rail. I did bottom left and I pocket the ball usually.

[golfcarte]

sorry if it has already said in this thread, but golf and pool are similar in that on the current shot, you are always thinking ahead to the next shot, or at least should be, that is, if you want to be any good.

[TheGeekGolfer]

[quote name='Saijin' timestamp='1397314812' post='9074263']
question: target ball is stuck on right rail, do you do bottom right or bottom left english or something else?

Saw a youtube video that says bottom right, but the target ball ended up bouncing off the rail. I did bottom left and I pocket the ball usually.[/quote]use bottom, middle, or top right. Two things on this shot. 1. The right hand english makes the cue ball spin left (counter clockwise from above). That transfers right hand spin to the object ball which will help it 'hug' the rail. 2. If the object ball is touching the side rail, then you need to hit the rail a fraction before the object ball. If you hit then at the same time, the friction between the cue ball and object ball will push the object ball into the rail causing it to rebound slightly. You'll get away with it on shorter rail shots, but miss the longer ones.

Get Byrne's book, it explains this in greater detail. It's a fascinating lesson in physics.

[Saijin]

Looks like that book is hard copy only and no digital download huh

[TheGeekGolfer]

Well, I think it was originally published at least 25 years ago. Easier to reference a hard copy while you practice, anyway.

[KNGR5150]

when doing rail shots, I try hitting the ghost ball. I imagine there is a ball lined up and touching before the object ball on the rail. Than I hit the cue ball to the center of that imaginary ball. you should make the object ball.

[TheGeekGolfer]

[quote name='KNGR5150' timestamp='1397761520' post='9113421']when doing rail shots, I try hitting the ghost ball. I imagine there is a ball lined up and touching before the object ball on the rail. Than I hit the cue ball to the center of that imaginary ball. you should make the object ball.[/quote] This will work on short rail shots or generous tables. For longer rail shots or tables with tight pockets, re-read the post I wrote earlier.

[avrag]

I do not know much about professional pool, but while zapping through channels, I came across something called the Mosconi Cup which seems to be something like a Ryder Cup for pool (Europe vs USA).
However, in the ten minutes or so I watched it, there was this US player named Earl Strickland.
Can somebody who is into pool please tell me what this guy's issues are?
I don't think I have ever seen ridiculuous behaviour like his in any professional sport. Come to think of it, I don't think I have ever seen ridiculous behaviour like that from any adult human being, period.
What's the matter with this j***k?

[WRXClarky]

Earl "the pearl" Strickland. One of the most polarizing players in pool. Hilarious in person, great to watch in money matches. Thinks the world is against him most of the time and uses it for motivation perfectly. Legendary money matches with Efren Reyes (best ever IMO) that are worth their weight in gold for watching to learn. Saw the pearl run 9 straight 9 ball racks on a 10 foot table one time that to this day still blows my mind. He is a brat to be sure, but the man is easily one of the best American 9 ball players ever.

[Mikey Town]

[quote name='avrag' timestamp='1398955695' post='9210773']
I do not know much about professional pool, but while zapping through channels, I came across something called the Mosconi Cup which seems to be something like a Ryder Cup for pool (Europe vs USA).
However, in the ten minutes or so I watched it, there was this US player named Earl Strickland.
Can somebody who is into pool please tell me what this guy's issues are?
I don't think I have ever seen ridiculuous behaviour like his in any professional sport. Come to think of it, I don't think I have ever seen ridiculous behaviour like that from any adult human being, period.
What's the matter with this j***k?
[/quote]

[quote name='WRXClarky' timestamp='1398960637' post='9211415']
Earl "the pearl" Strickland. One of the most polarizing players in pool. Hilarious in person, great to watch in money matches. Thinks the world is against him most of the time and uses it for motivation perfectly. Legendary money matches with Efren Reyes (best ever IMO) that are worth their weight in gold for watching to learn. Saw the pearl run 9 straight 9 ball racks on a 10 foot table one time that to this day still blows my mind. He is a brat to be sure, but the man is easily one of the best American 9 ball players ever.
[/quote]

Not limiting it to America, he's probably one of [i]the[/i] best 9-ball players ever. Sky Sports actually did a recent documentary on him. Not sure if it's up on youtube, but if you can find it, it's worth a watch. He's kind of the "mad genius" of pool.

It's usually pretty easy to laugh at his behavior. For the most part, it's entertaining, the crowd gets a kick out of it and his opponents tend to not let it bother them.

Unfortunately, at last year's Mosconi Cup, he took it to another level. Normally, it wouldn't be that big of a deal... but to do it while representing your country? Not cool.

Needless to say, he will be left off of Mosconi Cup teams for the foreseeable future.

[markheardjr]

Golf is hands down more difficult. I know a few really good pool players and they all agree. One of them thinks they can complement each other. He read the "Inner game of golf" book to try to help is mental game with billiards. I do think both have similarities. Typically in both games newer players tend to try to overhit everything. They play too fast. They don't see "ahead." They don't understand what causes what. And they can't do the geometry in their head to sink a shot/putt. There is a whole world of inside knowledge to both be it throw/deflection of billiards or how to play different lies in golf. Each one will never be mastered I don't think. Although I supposed you could run a 9 ball rack every single time. Or shoot -21 at the Masters. But it probably isn't going to happen.

[Mikey Town]

[quote name='markheardjr' timestamp='1398988749' post='9214381']
Golf is hands down more difficult. I know a few really good pool players and they all agree. One of them thinks they can complement each other. He read the "Inner game of golf" book to try to help is mental game with billiards. I do think both have similarities. Typically in both games newer players tend to try to overhit everything. They play too fast. They don't see "ahead." They don't understand what causes what. And they can't do the geometry in their head to sink a shot/putt. There is a whole world of inside knowledge to both be it throw/deflection of billiards or how to play different lies in golf. Each one will never be mastered I don't think. Although I supposed you could run a 9 ball rack every single time. Or shoot -21 at the Masters. But it probably isn't going to happen.
[/quote]

Interesting... I've never heard of "The Inner Game of Golf." "The Inner Game of Tennis" has been recommended to me many times by top level pool players, though.

I'll have to check out the golf one. I just looked it up and it's by the same author... probably pretty similar, but should be worth a read.

[topr]

To me having the ability to run the table in a game of 8 ball is about the equivalent of breaking 85.

[WRXClarky]

Maybe this is a good comparison if you are talking about running it once in a blue moon, but to run out consistently (at least half of your racks) would be equivalent to at least about a scratch amateur handicap player.

[kylemd]

Havin played all three( golf snooker and pool) I'll take holf as hardest ( no wind rain bad turf trees sand or faulty swings in pool). I absolutely loved snooker. Once got to see a clinic with Ronnie O Sullivan. That dude is awesome. Snooker IMO is MUCH harder than pool. Huge table, more balls , more strategy, complex shots. I got good at it and came back to America and ran all over dudes at pool.

Golf however much harder.

[Smiller1172]

Considering I play all my pool in bars pool is

[darnthealarm]

[quote name='jdhallissey' timestamp='1384587097' post='8157212']
Billards is rough but the surface doesnt change on high end tables. No weather, no heat. I play a lot of pool but i do feel golf is harder.
[/quote]

Wrong. The surface speed on a pool table changes with the temperature and humidity.

[WRXClarky]

[quote name='kingschiff' timestamp='1405614381' post='9720963']
is this a joke?? golf is 100x harder...
[/quote]
The joke is that comment coming from a 12 cap.

[Babalooie]

I think overall golf is harder for the average person.

But, I have seen some of the best pool players in the world.
The difference between world class and decent amateur is just as big in pool as it is in golf.

The raw talent and dedication to get to the very top is rare.
Shane Van Boening is to pool what Tiger was to golf 10 years ago.

The game of one pocket is another whole level too.
One big difference, no one is playing defense in golf !

[DeNinny]

[quote name='TVGM' timestamp='1384609593' post='8157640']
I've noticed over the years that guys who shoot really well can usually putt very well also.
[/quote]

Me too. I've played with two very good pool players and both of them were lights out putters. I think they understand touch and lag very well and it translates to putting...so long as they can read the greens.


Sorry OP but this is a very biased thread being on a golf forum board. Have you considered posting something similar to "BilliardsWRX" (or equivalent) and seeing if comments were any different? I think both sports are difficult to master and only a small % of people get to that point in either sport. It's like comparing apple to cherry pie.

[Babalooie]

It's called AZ Billiards and we've had the same discussion there with results somewhat biased also, but a lot of proponents of golf being harder too.

[Babalooie]

[quote name='WRXClarky' timestamp='1398960637' post='9211415']
Earl "the pearl" Strickland. One of the most polarizing players in pool. Hilarious in person, great to watch in money matches. Thinks the world is against him most of the time and uses it for motivation perfectly. Legendary money matches with Efren Reyes (best ever IMO) that are worth their weight in gold for watching to learn. Saw the pearl run 9 straight 9 ball racks on a 10 foot table one time that to this day still blows my mind. He is a brat to be sure, but the man is easily one of the best American 9 ball players ever.
[/quote]

He also ran 11 racks in a row to win a million dollars, it was an insurance deal like hole in ones.
This was the first and last time anyone would insure a pool tournament prize.
I don't think he ever got all the money.

I've seen him in person a couple times, world class ahole when he is in competition mode, but actually pretty gracious when doing appearances......sometimes!

[Mcaesq]

[quote name='Mikey Town' timestamp='1396995082' post='9049555']
[quote name='Obee' timestamp='1396497970' post='9008773']
It's not even close, IMHO. A large percentage of people can master basic pool shots in a short amount of time. Not so with golf.
[/quote]

Sorry man, but the games are equal... different... but equal.

Mastering a "basic pool shot" is no more playing a game of pool (be it 8-ball, 9-ball, straight pool, one pocket, etc...) than mastering a straight, 2-foot putt is playing a round of golf.

Just because certain aspects of a game are easy to execute (i.e. a short, straight in shot in pool, or a short, straight in putt) does not mean that the game itself is easy to excel at. That's kind of like saying that you can make 100 layups in a row, therefore basketball is easier than baseball.
[/quote]

I gotta disagree. Both good and great pool strokes (and "meta" game) are much easier to reach than a good/great golf swing (and score)--primarily because a golf swing just has more moving parts (so more places to screw up) and you can play options/defense in pool (including 9/10 ball and one pocket). I'd say putting and pool are very very similar though.

At least in my experience, it's much easier to become a competent/great pool player than to become a competent/great golfer. I've been playing golf since I was like 5 years old; at my best, I was a 2. I started playing pool like 3 years ago; I've already won a few local tournaments and can hold my own against pretty much any amateur pool player. Putting is by far the best part of my game, so that why I think I picked up pool so quickly.

Pool has been great for my short game though. I think it helped me with my putting and my creativity around the green.

It's also wayyyyyyyyy cheaper. $500 will buy you an awesome cue that will last for 20+ years if you take care of it, and table rates are never going to be more than greens fees unless you live at the pool hall.

[Mikey Town]

[quote name='Mcaesq' timestamp='1406129362' post='9767257']
[quote name='Mikey Town' timestamp='1396995082' post='9049555']
[quote name='Obee' timestamp='1396497970' post='9008773']
It's not even close, IMHO. A large percentage of people can master basic pool shots in a short amount of time. Not so with golf.
[/quote]

Sorry man, but the games are equal... different... but equal.

Mastering a "basic pool shot" is no more playing a game of pool (be it 8-ball, 9-ball, straight pool, one pocket, etc...) than mastering a straight, 2-foot putt is playing a round of golf.

Just because certain aspects of a game are easy to execute (i.e. a short, straight in shot in pool, or a short, straight in putt) does not mean that the game itself is easy to excel at. That's kind of like saying that you can make 100 layups in a row, therefore basketball is easier than baseball.
[/quote]

I gotta disagree. Both good and great pool strokes (and "meta" game) are much easier to reach than a good/great golf swing (and score)--primarily because a golf swing just has more moving parts (so more places to screw up) and you can play options/defense in pool (including 9/10 ball and one pocket). I'd say putting and pool are very very similar though.

At least in my experience, it's much easier to become a competent/great pool player than to become a competent/great golfer. I've been playing golf since I was like 5 years old; at my best, I was a 2. I started playing pool like 3 years ago; I've already won a few local tournaments and can hold my own against pretty much any amateur pool player. Putting is by far the best part of my game, so that why I think I picked up pool so quickly.

Pool has been great for my short game though. I think it helped me with my putting and my creativity around the green.

It's also wayyyyyyyyy cheaper. $500 will buy you an awesome cue that will last for 20+ years if you take care of it, and table rates are never going to be more than greens fees unless you live at the pool hall.
[/quote]

While a mechanically sound pool stroke is physically easier to achieve than a mechanically sound golf swing, that doesn't mean that the game is easier.

The difficulty with pool is that, even with a perfect stroke, it's useless unless you know how to use it.

Also, saying "competent/great player" is a huge disservice to great players. To become "competent" at any sport isn't all that difficult, with a bit of time and dedication. To become "great" is COMPLETELY different. To be recognized as a "great" player, you have to exceed a certain level when measured to your peers. There are only a few "great" players in every sport... and to become "great" at a sport, be it baseball, basketball, football, golf, pool, hockey, bowling, tennis, etc... it takes the same amount of talent, work ethic and dedication, no matter what sport you play. It's not "harder" to become great at golf than it is to become great at pool... it just takes a different skill set. Pool's skill set (much like bowling) isn't as physically demanding, but that doesn't mean that it's "easier."

As for $500 buying you an "awesome" pool cue... I don't quite agree with that. It will buy you a cue that plays well, and will last you a long time (as long as it's taken care of). However, the definition of "awesome" can vary from person to person. In my mind, an "awesome" pool cue is something that plays great, looks great, was made by a top cue maker AND will hold it's value. When it comes to the cue makers that can produce this type of product, $500 doesn't begin to scratch the surface (unfortunately).

[WRXClarky]

[i][b][color=#282828]"I started playing pool like 3 years ago; I've already won a few local tournaments and can hold my own against pretty much any amateur pool player.[/color][/b][/i]

[color="#282828"]Your comment above is misleading. Winning a local pool tournament and holding your own against pretty much any amateur pool player are two completely different things. [/color]

[color="#282828"]Winning a local pool tourney would be equivalent to shooting around 90. [/color]
[color="#282828"]Holding your own against pretty much [u][b]ANY[/b][/u] amateur pool player would be equivalent to advancing to the match play format of the US amateur. [/color]

[color=#282828]Believe it or not, they are some "amateur" pool players in the world that could enter and compete to win some pro events. Pro/amateur status in pool is a very shady area especially when the "road players" are included in the amateur ranks. [/color]

[Mcaesq]

[quote name='Mikey Town' timestamp='1406136068' post='9768245']
[quote name='Mcaesq' timestamp='1406129362' post='9767257']
[quote name='Mikey Town' timestamp='1396995082' post='9049555']
[quote name='Obee' timestamp='1396497970' post='9008773']
It's not even close, IMHO. A large percentage of people can master basic pool shots in a short amount of time. Not so with golf.
[/quote]

Sorry man, but the games are equal... different... but equal.

Mastering a "basic pool shot" is no more playing a game of pool (be it 8-ball, 9-ball, straight pool, one pocket, etc...) than mastering a straight, 2-foot putt is playing a round of golf.

Just because certain aspects of a game are easy to execute (i.e. a short, straight in shot in pool, or a short, straight in putt) does not mean that the game itself is easy to excel at. That's kind of like saying that you can make 100 layups in a row, therefore basketball is easier than baseball.
[/quote]

I gotta disagree. Both good and great pool strokes (and "meta" game) are much easier to reach than a good/great golf swing (and score)--primarily because a golf swing just has more moving parts (so more places to screw up) and you can play options/defense in pool (including 9/10 ball and one pocket). I'd say putting and pool are very very similar though.

At least in my experience, it's much easier to become a competent/great pool player than to become a competent/great golfer. I've been playing golf since I was like 5 years old; at my best, I was a 2. I started playing pool like 3 years ago; I've already won a few local tournaments and can hold my own against pretty much any amateur pool player. Putting is by far the best part of my game, so that why I think I picked up pool so quickly.

Pool has been great for my short game though. I think it helped me with my putting and my creativity around the green.

It's also wayyyyyyyyy cheaper. $500 will buy you an awesome cue that will last for 20+ years if you take care of it, and table rates are never going to be more than greens fees unless you live at the pool hall.
[/quote]

While a mechanically sound pool stroke is physically easier to achieve than a mechanically sound golf swing, that doesn't mean that the game is easier.

The difficulty with pool is that, even with a perfect stroke, it's useless unless you know how to use it.

Also, saying "competent/great player" is a huge disservice to great players. To become "competent" at any sport isn't all that difficult, with a bit of time and dedication. To become "great" is COMPLETELY different. To be recognized as a "great" player, you have to exceed a certain level when measured to your peers. There are only a few "great" players in every sport... and to become "great" at a sport, be it baseball, basketball, football, golf, pool, hockey, bowling, tennis, etc... it takes the same amount of talent, work ethic and dedication, no matter what sport you play. It's not "harder" to become great at golf than it is to become great at pool... it just takes a different skill set. Pool's skill set (much like bowling) isn't as physically demanding, but that doesn't mean that it's "easier."

As for $500 buying you an "awesome" pool cue... I don't quite agree with that. It will buy you a cue that plays well, and will last you a long time (as long as it's taken care of). However, the definition of "awesome" can vary from person to person. In my mind, an "awesome" pool cue is something that plays great, looks great, was made by a top cue maker AND will hold it's value. When it comes to the cue makers that can produce this type of product, $500 doesn't begin to scratch the surface (unfortunately).
[/quote]

I didn't mean competent/great as equivalent. I meant competent and great as different skill levels (it's easier to become a competent pool player than a competent golfer, it's easier to become a great pool player than it is to become a great golfer). Maybe we ascribe different meanings to great. I consider a scratch golfer to be a great golfer, and a great pool player is someone who will run out in 8/9 more than 1/3 times.

We definitely have a different definition of an awesome cue : ). I spent $380 on my cue. It's the cheapest predator butt with a z2 shaft and it performs as well as any custom cue IMO. Anything past $500 is like paying for a limited edition putter; no increase in performance, just prettier to look at.

[quote name='WRXClarky' timestamp='1406142399' post='9769035']
[i][b][color=#282828]"I started playing pool like 3 years ago; I've already won a few local tournaments and can hold my own against pretty much any amateur pool player.[/color][/b][/i]

[color=#282828]Your comment above is misleading. Winning a local pool tournament and holding your own against pretty much any amateur pool player are two completely different things. [/color]

[color=#282828]Winning a local pool tourney would be equivalent to shooting around 90. [/color]
[color=#282828]Holding your own against pretty much [u][b]ANY[/b][/u] amateur pool player would be equivalent to advancing to the match play format of the US amateur. [/color]

[color=#282828]Believe it or not, they are some "amateur" pool players in the world that could enter and compete to win some pro events. Pro/amateur status in pool is a very shady area especially when the "road players" are included in the amateur ranks. [/color]
[/quote]

Well the local pool tourneys I'm talking about are at Mr. Cues and Marietta Billiards (Johnny Archer's place). It's not like playing on a bar box against some drunk dude. Quite a few professionals play at both places (particularly cues) and I won the last tournament I played in (128 people entered, no pros allowed, no handicap). As for advancing to match play for the US Amateur, I'm registered for a qualifier, so hopefully it'll go well haha.

Edit: and don't get me wrong, there are more than a few amateurs out there who would beat the crap out of me on the pool table. But again, I don't really compare myself to them the same way that I don't compare myself to pro golfers. I have a job and can't spend 10+ hours practicing golf or pool, so why beat up on yourself instead of be positive about your game?

[fowlerscousin]

Its easier to impress people with golf ability imo. Meaning, its easier to have a 70s stroke average, than it is to be known as the best pool player in your city.