Who forged Ram Tour Grinds?

[BIG STU]

On 12/9/2020 at 6:11 PM, NRJyzr said:

 

I only have personal experience with the lie angle dots on Frquency Matched Golden Ram Tour Grinds.  The dots were on the back of the muscle, more or less in the middle.  They also were on the last model year of the Vibration Matched Golden Rams.

 

Attaching an image as an example

 

Those are the exact ones my bud I grew up with played for years. Before those he played old Bristols when they were owned by Ram and he played the XS-1000 Rams too. He wore out 3 or 4 sets of those because he hit balls or played everyday. Had a hitting net in his office 30 years ago before it became cool. His last set I found for him long after Ram went out of business. They were pristine and I got them for him for $50. The last 10 years he has been playing Bridgestone J-33s or J-36. On the XS-1000s as much as I have been around I have not seen a set for 30 years or more. If I was to run up on a set for a reasonable price I would get them for him for a Nostalgic gift.  Cheeze Whiz did not realize this was an old thread and I posted almost the same thing 6 years ago===== I am such an idiot

Edited December 12, 2020 by BIG STU

[NRJyzr]

2 hours ago, BIG STU said:

Those are the exact ones my bud I grew up with played for years. Before those he played old Bristols when they were owned by Ram and he played the XS-1000 Rams too. He wore out 3 or 4 sets of those because he hit balls or played everyday. Had a hitting net in his office 30 years ago before it became cool. His last set I found for him long after Ram went out of business. They were pristine and I got them for him for $50. The last 10 years he has been playing Bridgestone J-33s or J-36. On the XS-1000s as much as I have been around I have not seen a set for 30 years or more. If I was to run up on a set for a reasonable price I would get them for him for a Nostalgic gift.  Cheeze Whiz did not realize this was an old thread and I posted almost the same thing 6 years ago===== I am such an idiot

 

I've come close to doing that in several of the Ram threads, before looking back and finding my old posts in the thread.  🙂

 

I'll mention again, there are some occasional sets of Golden Rams out there on eBay, but they're not terribly affordable these days.  Prices used to be better, but they took a jump when Watson nearly won the Open Championship in 2009.  They came back down a bit since, but not fully.  Of course, the 2020 increase in demand for all things golf has bumped prices up again.

 

[Fairway14]

On 12/9/2020 at 8:15 PM, UlfBane said:

 

 emailed the seller, here is his reply: "on the hosel, most will have a color coded dot and wording, either MADE IN USA or FORGED - USA, also color coded

color is obvious on new, unused set, but not sure if the color is obvious on a used set, 20+ years old"

 

My set has TOUR GRIND in RED? The Cast 2 Iron is Black. Here arev some photos of the 2 clubs for those interested...

 

 

 

 

Beauties ! The relatively low heel area face height, sloping to a tall face area toe height, not only looks graceful, but also provides a functional benefit.

[UlfBane]

14 hours ago, NRJyzr said:

I'll mention again, there are some occasional sets of Golden Rams out there on eBay, but they're not terribly affordable these days.  Prices used to be better, but they took a jump when Watson nearly won the Open Championship in 2009.  They came back down a bit since, but not fully.  Of course, the 2020 increase in demand for all things golf has bumped prices up again.

 

Just got done re-watching Watson's Stellar play yesterday on YouTube. As for affordability, take a look at these!

 

[UlfBane]

The eBay listings above are current as of this posting and feature "Brand new" 25 year old sets, many still in the box. The box brags that they are "Made in the USA" not "Assembled in the USA using imported parts", so they were probably forged here.

 

These are essentially "New, unhit clubs", so i snagged a few pix to confirm what I wrote above about identifying FORGED clubs from rhis era. Note the UNPAINTED center section and GROOVES.

Also the gold band even on STEEL shafts.

 

And Finally, the box identifies these as a FLAT lie angle and the hosel stamping is indeed painted GOLD.

 

[Foozle]

On 7/13/2020 at 2:53 PM, NRJyzr said:

 

Any chance you could share pics?

I haven't seen them, but Price was said to have his own custom grinds, similar to Tom Watson's TW282 and TW Custom Grind sets. Which have a very square toe, also.

Watson's custom grinds are from the Golden Ram era, from around 1980 thru 1992 or so.

I would expect Price's are from his ascendant era in the early 90s. The FX Tour Grinds were produced in 94-95, per the sources I've seen.

NRJyzr, we share a Ram fetish. Reading back other Tour Grind posts i am aware that you had, and let go, a set of TW Custom Grinds. Not a set I am familiar with but spotted  set of FM TW Custom Grinds today and bought on impulse. Keen to get your thoughts and any info on them? A regret letting them go or a deliberate act? 

Should hopefully get them next week so can post pics then.

[NRJyzr]

5 hours ago, Foozle said:

NRJyzr, we share a Ram fetish. Reading back other Tour Grind posts i am aware that you had, and let go, a set of TW Custom Grinds. Not a set I am familiar with but spotted  set of FM TW Custom Grinds today and bought on impulse. Keen to get your thoughts and any info on them? A regret letting them go or a deliberate act? 

Should hopefully get them next week so can post pics then.

 

Definitely regret letting them go.  I never played them myself, they came with Gold Plus shafts, a less than ideal fit for yours truly.

 

The TW Custom Grinds are very much like the TW282 set.  It seems Tom Watson preferred quite a square toe, and fairly straight sole.  

 

Look forward to seeing pics of yours when they arrive.  🙂

 

[MrFlipper]

Haven't posted for years---

 

Anyway this past year the buying bug hit me for the first time. Went from one set I played (some revolution black dots) to a small bunch of old maxflis, hogans, f and j's, some daiwas, some black face macgregors, a couple others and, of course, some rams. I'll admit to being a ram guy big time.

 

First set was some nickels. Pure fun. Then I got the square toe bug (note the daiwas, f&j's) and got my first set of FM TW tour grinds, just pristine. Came with gold plus shafts as noted in previous post, but I've found as I got older that those shafts really suit me. Even bought some old maxfli tour ltd forged cb's just for those shafts maybe harvest in the future. 

 

Then the gent in Alberta that sold me the first set of TWs sold me another set, these with 6.5 shafts (if you are on here, cheers mate!) So now I have another set of heads for future as well. I'm set. Unless of course some tw282's turn up lol

 

Gotta say these are just wonderful clubs. I grew up playing clubs like these in the 70s, it's really turned back the clock for me. My user name is my wedge in my bag still, have accumulated 5 of them over my 50 ish years of playing.

 

Cheers to you all. Really have enjoyed this corner of the internet over the years!

[Foozle]

9 hours ago, NRJyzr said:

 

Definitely regret letting them go.  I never played them myself, they came with Gold Plus shafts, a less than ideal fit for yours truly.

 

The TW Custom Grinds are very much like the TW282 set.  It seems Tom Watson preferred quite a square toe, and fairly straight sole.  

 

Look forward to seeing pics of yours when they arrive.  🙂

 

I am looking forward to their arrival. I had heard of them - possibly through your posts- but have never seen them. The pictures aren't wonderful but they look in good shape.

Interesting that they are similar to the TW282's as that is what I was looking for (and the forlorn hope of another set of 80-82's) when I stumbled across them.

I agree about the very high / square toe. Quite different to my beloved 80-82 TG's and, I would suggest, higher than the standard FM version. The odd thing is that they look very square and "boxy" from the front but from the rear there is quite a sweeping curved line to the toe - vaguely Hogan Power Thrust - so I will be interested to see how they make that transition.

The shafts are described as S200 which is another first for me but, as I have posted elsewhere, I am already backing off from my preferred S300 and Apex 4 shafts and so am optimistic they may work for me. Shaft bands look intact but illegible in the pictures. However they don't look like standard DG labels so wonder if they may be the Gold Plus you mentioned; I know nothing of these so what are your thoughts?

As an FM set I am assuming they will be circa '87 in date?

Thanks for the info. Will share the Ram love when they arrive!

 

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

2 hours ago, Foozle said:

I am looking forward to their arrival. I had heard of them - possibly through your posts- but have never seen them. The pictures aren't wonderful but they look in good shape.

Interesting that they are similar to the TW282's as that is what I was looking for (and the forlorn hope of another set of 80-82's) when I stumbled across them.

I agree about the very high / square toe. Quite different to my beloved 80-82 TG's and, I would suggest, higher than the standard FM version. The odd thing is that they look very square and "boxy" from the front but from the rear there is quite a sweeping curved line to the toe - vaguely Hogan Power Thrust - so I will be interested to see how they make that transition.

The shafts are described as S200 which is another first for me but, as I have posted elsewhere, I am already backing off from my preferred S300 and Apex 4 shafts and so am optimistic they may work for me. Shaft bands look intact but illegible in the pictures. However they don't look like standard DG labels so wonder if they may be the Gold Plus you mentioned; I know nothing of these so what are your thoughts?

As an FM set I am assuming they will be circa '87 in date?

Thanks for the info. Will share the Ram love when they arrive!

 

 

S200? Wonder if they have come via Japan. S200 is quite common here. I think the only difference between S200 and S300 is a gram or two of weight. 

 

As lots of wedges come with DGS200 shafts here, I've grown quite used to them in my wedges. I have a couple of wedges with S400, which now feel so much heavier, even though the difference is only a few grams.

 

I think it's mostly mental. Or I'm mental🤪

[MrFlipper]

4 hours ago, Foozle said:

I am looking forward to their arrival. I had heard of them - possibly through your posts- but have never seen them. The pictures aren't wonderful but they look in good shape.

Interesting that they are similar to the TW282's as that is what I was looking for (and the forlorn hope of another set of 80-82's) when I stumbled across them.

I agree about the very high / square toe. Quite different to my beloved 80-82 TG's and, I would suggest, higher than the standard FM version. The odd thing is that they look very square and "boxy" from the front but from the rear there is quite a sweeping curved line to the toe - vaguely Hogan Power Thrust - so I will be interested to see how they make that transition.

The shafts are described as S200 which is another first for me but, as I have posted elsewhere, I am already backing off from my preferred S300 and Apex 4 shafts and so am optimistic they may work for me. Shaft bands look intact but illegible in the pictures. However they don't look like standard DG labels so wonder if they may be the Gold Plus you mentioned; I know nothing of these so what are your thoughts?

As an FM set I am assuming they will be circa '87 in date?

Thanks for the info. Will share the Ram love when they arrive!

 

My bet is you are getting the gold plus shafts, my gold plus TWs are s200 as well. Never seen a set of s200s of any make elsewhere, only seen them as noted above "wedge flex", and those were DGs.

 

Somewhere in my memory banks I read that the lightweight gold plus had some strength issues and might snap, not an issue for my swing but maybe yours. Supposedly maxfli originally put s300 gold plus into the tour ltd forged cb's early 90's ish but sometimes the tips were snapping so later sets (incl. mine) are s400. It's only a few ounces, I don't feel any difference in gold plus from s200 or s300 or s400. Just a great shaft in general for me now. Relative to DG s300 to me, they are of course lighter (maybe 103 ish uncut) launch higher, feel somewhat softer. To me the change from DG s300s to apex4s is a similar grade from the apex4s to the gold plus s series, maybe gold plus even a tad softer. From what you say, seems to me there's a fighting chance you may really like these shafts!

 

Have fun with your new set. It's special!

[Foozle]

3 hours ago, MrFlipper said:

My bet is you are getting the gold plus shafts, my gold plus TWs are s200 as well. Never seen a set of s200s of any make elsewhere, only seen them as noted above "wedge flex", and those were DGs.

 

Somewhere in my memory banks I read that the lightweight gold plus had some strength issues and might snap, not an issue for my swing but maybe yours. Supposedly maxfli originally put s300 gold plus into the tour ltd forged cb's early 90's ish but sometimes the tips were snapping so later sets (incl. mine) are s400. It's only a few ounces, I don't feel any difference in gold plus from s200 or s300 or s400. Just a great shaft in general for me now. Relative to DG s300 to me, they are of course lighter (maybe 103 ish uncut) launch higher, feel somewhat softer. To me the change from DG s300s to apex4s is a similar grade from the apex4s to the gold plus s series, maybe gold plus even a tad softer. From what you say, seems to me there's a fighting chance you may really like these shafts!

 

Have fun with your new set. It's special!

Thanks for the info and insight Mr Flipper. My swing speed is on the way down, not that it was ever very high, so think the risk of me snapping a shaft is low. I do like the sound of them playing softer than s300 and Apex 4 as that is really what I am looking for / need.

The excitement builds..! 

[NRJyzr]

If they are indeed Gold Plus shafts, one reason I didn't bother trying them is that Dynacraft/Hireko rated them a flex softer than DG.  I could get away with DGS at the time, but going a flex softer would be a no-go for me.

 

I should see if I can find dig up my old DSFI info (have had a PC change)...

 

[NRJyzr]

7 minutes ago, NRJyzr said:

If they are indeed Gold Plus shafts, one reason I didn't bother trying them is that Dynacraft/Hireko rated them a flex softer than DG.  I could get away with DGS at the time, but going a flex softer would be a no-go for me.

 

I should see if I can find dig up my old DSFI info (have had a PC change)...

 

 

Didn't take long, LOL.

 

S300 Gold Plus rates very close to DGR300.  If you're looking to go softer than DGS, Gold Plus stiff should get the job done.

 

DSFI info lists it as roughly 107 grams, raw length.

 

[Shallowface]

4 hours ago, MrFlipper said:

My bet is you are getting the gold plus shafts, my gold plus TWs are s200 as well. Never seen a set of s200s of any make elsewhere, only seen them as noted above "wedge flex", and those were DGs.

 

Somewhere in my memory banks I read that the lightweight gold plus had some strength issues and might snap, not an issue for my swing but maybe yours. Supposedly maxfli originally put s300 gold plus into the tour ltd forged cb's early 90's ish but sometimes the tips were snapping so later sets (incl. mine) are s400. It's only a few ounces, I don't feel any difference in gold plus from s200 or s300 or s400. Just a great shaft in general for me now. Relative to DG s300 to me, they are of course lighter (maybe 103 ish uncut) launch higher, feel somewhat softer. To me the change from DG s300s to apex4s is a similar grade from the apex4s to the gold plus s series, maybe gold plus even a tad softer. From what you say, seems to me there's a fighting chance you may really like these shafts!

 

Have fun with your new set. It's special!

When they first hit the market, Dynamic Gold shafts were available in R-100, R-200, R-300, R-400, R-500, S-100, S-200, S-300, S-400 S-500, X-100, X-200, X-300, X-400 and X-500, and were available in all of those flexes for woods and irons.

I apologize if I misunderstood your comment about never having seen S200 in anything other than wedges.

[MrFlipper]

31 minutes ago, Shallowface said:

When they first hit the market, Dynamic Gold shafts were available in R-100, R-200, R-300, R-400, R-500, S-100, S-200, S-300, S-400 S-500, X-100, X-200, X-300, X-400 and X-500, and were available in all of those flexes for woods and irons.

I apologize if I misunderstood your comment about never having seen S200 in anything other than wedges.

No worries, you didn't misunderstand!

 

I've heard of those shafts, just never seen most of them in sets in real life. I was pretty much a common S300 guy until recently, prob wasn't paying much attention!

[Foozle]

On 3/26/2021 at 11:28 PM, NRJyzr said:

 

Definitely regret letting them go.  I never played them myself, they came with Gold Plus shafts, a less than ideal fit for yours truly.

 

The TW Custom Grinds are very much like the TW282 set.  It seems Tom Watson preferred quite a square toe, and fairly straight sole.  

 

Look forward to seeing pics of yours when they arrive.  🙂

 

Here they are!

Gold Plus S200 as predicted and original Ram Victory grips. The grips have just turned and beginning to craze. I have given them the kiss of life with some warm soapy water to get a couple of rounds out of them before swapping.(I battled to remove a set of Victory grips at the weekend which were welded to my '59 Starbursts - I apologise for the language used!- and can't face another battle just yet). There is also an odd bloom on the chrome which looks like it should just wipe off but doesn't. My guess is they weren't cleaned before being stored and something has etched into the finish giving a slight mottled finish. Otherwise in great shape.

They feel lighter than my 80-82's but the heads look bigger? I love the heft of the 80-82's which made me feel the club would generate the power and all I had to do was try and guide the head back to the ball square; made me swing them quite lazy but with great results (most of the time).😁

Here they are staged as part of my Tom Watson tribute bag with Toney Penna Mod1 and '58 Dynapower wedge (sadly only a reproduction ☹). It is intended for my 80-82's which are more age related to the era I am trying to represent and a way to display/retire my beloved irons which are now worn beyond play. However I thought I would try the TW Custom Grinds in there for fun.

 

Edited March 31, 2021 by Foozle
Add picture

[NRJyzr]

Those look lovely, Foozle  🙂

 

[RobotDoctor]

I have gamed both the Ram Tour Grinds and FX2 irons in the 90s.  These were short lived experiments as I went back to my 1992 Ben Hogan Apex blades. 

[UlfBane]

These were advertised on eBay as Tour Issue Nick Price Grinds.

 

 

 

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

6 hours ago, Foozle said:

Here they are!

Gold Plus S200 as predicted and original Ram Victory grips. The grips have just turned and beginning to craze. I have given them the kiss of life with some warm soapy water to get a couple of rounds out of them before swapping.(I battled to remove a set of Victory grips at the weekend which were welded to my '59 Starbursts - I apologise for the language used!- and can't face another battle just yet). There is also an odd bloom on the chrome which looks like it should just wipe off but doesn't. My guess is they weren't cleaned before being stored and something has etched into the finish giving a slight mottled finish. Otherwise in great shape.

They feel lighter than my 80-82's but the heads look bigger? I love the heft of the 80-82's which made me feel the club would generate the power and all I had to do was try and guide the head back to the ball square; made me swing them quite lazy but with great results (most of the time).😁

Here they are staged as part of my Tom Watson tribute bag with Toney Penna Mod1 and '58 Dynapower wedge (sadly only a reproduction ☹). It is intended for my 80-82's which are more age related to the era I am trying to represent and a way to display/retire my beloved irons which are now worn beyond play. However I thought I would try the TW Custom Grinds in there for fun.

 

 

I only regret that I have one like to give for those RAMS😍

 

I also have to say, Foozle, you have a pretty strong vintage bag game going on there. My feelings are somewhere between admiration and envy...😅

[Nard_S]

1 hour ago, UlfBane said:

These were advertised on eBay as Tour Issue Nick Price Grinds.

 

 

 

So purdy. I remember seeing those, quite pricey if memory serves but yeah, nice.

[AcePHA]

God I love the Tour Grinds...time to let mine go though. Just listed a forged set on Ebay, 2-PW in excellent condition, and will be adding a TG-898 set later today when I get home. May even let my nickel set go too. If anyone has interest in the 898s give me a shout before I list them!

Edited October 14, 2021 by AcePHA

[NRJyzr]

Borrowing this thread to mention my round yesterday, in which I played my Golden Ram TW282's, 2-pw, with a 58* PM Grind 19 as the SW.

 

Regret not having put these back in the bag a bit sooner.  They were quite lovely.  I've got the lofts a bit weaker, 51* PW, sets up the gapping nicely.  I worried about the RIP Tour 115 shafts, which are quite stiff; mine are regular flex, and play stiffer than the NV105 Stiffs in my TW276 set.  Turns out, they fit me quite well.

 

It's too bad they are no more.

 

It's funny...  my swing and physical characteristics are such that wider sole, higher bounce, irons should suit me better, but I always tend to play better with Rams.  Go figure.

 

[AcePHA]

Any of the experts here know if the Tour Grind FX Nickel muscleback blade had a 2 or 1 iron option?

Did they make other Tour Grind FX Nickle muscleback blade wedges? I was able to find a sand wedge to add to my set.

Edited December 17, 2021 by AcePHA

[NRJyzr]

2 hours ago, AcePHA said:

Any of the experts here know if the Tour Grind FX Nickel muscleback blade had a 2 or 1 iron option?

Did they make other Tour Grind FX Nickle muscleback blade wedges? I was able to find a sand wedge to add to my set.

 

There *was* a 2 iron in the FX Nickels.  Don't believe there was a 1 iron, that loft slot was taken by the stronger lofts (2i was 18*).

 

Not sure about the wedges.  There were FX Nickel wedges,  but I don't know that they were actually part of the blade set.  They appear to have been a standalone product.

 

[UlfBane]

The RAM FX line of the 90's had many variants. The FX oversize stainless and nickel both had multiple wedges as did the Pro-set (both forged and cast). The Oversize sets came with a "W" (pitching wedge), "S"(Sand wedge)  and "L" (lob wedge). (I do not know if they had an "M" wedge).

 

The Pro-Set came with a "P" (pitching wedge), an "M" or middle wedge at 51 degrees, "S"(Sand wedge)  and "L" (lob wedge). The Forged M wedge came in 2 versions, With and without the 2 dots under the M to distinguish it from a "W" wedge.

 

I won't clutter this post with pictures of any of the above wedges, but will concentrate on the nickels.

 

Of the remaining types I collect, (Laser FX, FX Off-Set, FX2, FX Tour Grind Forged, FX Tour Grind Custom Nickel Blade and Cavity Back) I have found no evidence of any wedges besides the PW and S wedge. (there is a titanium face FX from this period, but I have no interest in them).

 

The "S" wedge in all these sets appears to be the equivalent of the "M" wedge being around 52 degrees.

 

It seems RAM found that the buying public would buy sand wedges for their sets, but did not yet get the concept of Gap wedges, so they simply marked them wedges as "S" wedges (strong sand wedges) and then offered Nickel RAM STAFF wedges although i cannot swear they were available when the Nickel Custum line was released.

 

 

There are also Tom Watson Nickel Wedges and at least 1 Wizard putter, but some, if not all, of these are later releases.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Shameless plug: (All the above clubs are currently for sale on eBay for a limited time).

 

 

[Jiggered]

Great collection @UlfBane

[UlfBane]

1 hour ago, Jiggered said:

Great collection @UlfBane

Ta very much! : )

[NRJyzr]

The Wizard 610 putters also offered a version with no insert.

 

I'll have to find my Maltby ID Guide, see what it might offer of the various nickel clubs.  I'm fairly sure there *was* a GW offered in the FX Nickel blades, Ironfinder has a listing for it.  I dimly remember seeing one on eBay, but they're far from common.