Huge Rate Increases, what would you do?

[ncosper]

A little background - I live in Flagstaff AZ. Its an awesome town but crap for golf (unless you have lots of $$$). We have 4 private courses, some are exceptional. We have 1 public course and quite frankly its garbage. 6,000 yards long, OB is present on every single hole, OB is so close the mow around the stakes on some holes. The greens are tiny and I've seen <5 handicap players 9 putt, the greens and pins are so bad. So yes, the course sucks but its all we got. We've had a mens club for a long time. Its been recently run down with a bad president so this last season I was voted to replace him.

 

As is common from what I understand throughout the country, our golf course isn't making money. Its part of a community and the HOA helps subsidize the course since it operates at a loss. A new pro was hire two seasons ago and is trying to change things drastically. Last year I was told the course lost $300k overall although I believe that number is greatly exaggerated.

 

In order to increase revenue I was told the course is now proceeding with basically a 40% rate increase on greens fees. Some seasonal rates are less some more than 40%.

Our mens club fees have changed from Guest rates of $19 walking off peak last year to $39 this year. Riding went from $25 to $55.

 

They've also decided that our driving range will be $7 for a small basket a $13 for a large. Thats not terrible, but the embarrassing part is they also are now expecting "employees" to volunteer for their positions, yes no pay. Their only perk is a discounted rate of $20 to play golf. As range employees they are not even allowed to hit range balls without paying full price.

 

My dilemma is as new elected mens club president, what do I do? My gut tells me to tell the course to shove it where the sun doesn't shine and my committee members have expressed they will do the same. We can join another mens club that is a 30 mile drive away. My pride tells me to stick it out. My anger tells me to rally together a full blown boycott.

 

 

What would you do in this situation?

[cardoustie]

I would rally a full blown boycott

Our club went thru some issues 3 years ago, and in two months we had 200 people (60% of the men's members) on an email train that forced mgmt to change its direction

[ncosper]

That's awesome. I'd love to be able to change things that quickly!

[padget]

What benefits does the other course 30 miles away have? I would not appreciate a 100% increase in fees at your "home course", but it also depends on my alternatives. If the other course is a reasonable alternative and offers enough upside to make the drive, I would certainly entertain it.

[DavePelz4]

Did you volunteer for the position? Who was it that ultimately made the call to raise the rates? How big is the HOA and how many members of the association play? Does the course get charged an admin fee by the HOA that makes it unprofitable?

[ncosper]

The course 30 miles away is really a better course. They operate on a smaller budget so greens can be a bit slower but are always more fair. The cart paths are gravel, etc. If that course was the same drive for me, I'd play it 10 out of 10 times vs the local course. The added hour of driving for golf is the only reason I haven't played there more.

[ncosper]

[quote name='DavePelz4' timestamp='1389640370' post='8453149']
Did you volunteer for the position? Who was it that ultimately made the call to raise the rates? How big is the HOA and how many members of the association play? Does the course get charged an admin fee by the HOA that makes it unprofitable?
[/quote]
I was essentially nominated for the position however I am a volunteer. I guess I didn't overtly volunteer but I am definitely in a volunteer position.
I believe the HOA has around 600-800 members. I could be off though. I'd also guesstimate that 5% or less play golf at the public course. I am not a member of the HOA so I don't attend the meetings or know the ins and outs of the HOA itself.
I don't believe the course is charged an admin fee but I could be wrong.

The decision on raising the rates was done by the Golf Committee. Up until 2013 the course had a greens committee which made the calls for all golf course related decisions. The new pro and GM (same guy) decided before last season to do away with the green committee and start the Golf Committee. The Greens Committee has between 5 and 7 members and was around for a number of years. The golf committee consists of 3 people. The pro/gm and two other people he appointed. Essentially he is making the decision while having two fall guys.

Additionally the driving range was just taken over by the pro/gm. Our range is about 1000 yards from the course and is run separately, although financially it is one with the course. For the last 5-6 years a retired guy has poured his heart into the range. Hand picking up tees, cigarette butts, rebuilding the range shack, adding fencing, etc, etc. The pro just fired him yesterday and is taking that over along with the rate increase for range balls. Now all range employees will not be paid and will be volunteers along with all course rangers.

[bk52]

It is inadvisable to do anything in anger. As President, the Men's Club expects a reasoned decision and it looks like that will be your approach. A one hour round trip is significant as will be the $6 to $10 cost of gas. Unless the alternate course's fees are significantly less, the cost in time, gas and wear & tear may tilt the decision toward staying.

Have you considered approaching the Pro with a request to give the Men's Club a group discount? Maybe he could knock off a few bucks this year so the increase year over year is not so great. Suggest that the Men's Club really wants to stay put but at the suggested prices, you will have to look at more distant courses. Maybe you could offer some volunteer work by your membership in return for discounted rates?

If you have some flexibility, you might split the play between the two courses to see how the Club likes the alternative site. Schedule some special events or tournaments at the alternate site this year and make the Pro aware that you would have held them at his place except for the rates.

Ultimately, as you know, you have a tough situation with so little competition.

[ncosper]

[quote name='bk52' timestamp='1389643455' post='8453451']
It is inadvisable to do anything in anger. As President, the Men's Club expects a reasoned decision and it looks like that will be your approach. A one hour round trip is significant as will be the $6 to $10 cost of gas. Unless the alternate course's fees are significantly less, the cost in time, gas and wear & tear may tilt the decision toward staying.

Have you considered approaching the Pro with a request to give the Men's Club a group discount? Maybe he could knock off a few bucks this year so the increase year over year is not so great. Suggest that the Men's Club really wants to stay put but at the suggested prices, you will have to look at more distant courses. Maybe you could offer some volunteer work by your membership in return for discounted rates?

If you have some flexibility, you might split the play between the two courses to see how the Club likes the alternative site. Schedule some special events or tournaments at the alternate site this year and make the Pro aware that you would have held them at his place except for the rates.

Ultimately, as you know, you have a tough situation with so little competition.
[/quote]
I'm not sure yet of the alternatives rates, but yes they will be significantly less, probably 50% is my guess. With gas the price should still be quite a bit less.

The 100+% rate increase is actually a discounted rate. The peak rate for non HOA members is $75 to ride. If you were to play this course and pay $75 you wouldn't be happy. I've played a lot of courses, our course is a $30 course on a good day. Supply and demand got them to $60 but No way can I see $75 for anyone.

[robnplunder]

Your public course even with steep increse doesn't look so bad. And the increase revenue may be put to a good cause, like improving the course. If they have a plan, If I were in your situation, I'd give it a year of chance.

BTW, your main complain about the course was difficulty of playing the course (OB areas, tiny greens). Others may enjoy the difficulty. Does it have other shortcomings?

[ncosper]

[quote name='robnplunder' timestamp='1389649143' post='8453983']
Your public course even with steep increse doesn't look so bad. And the increase revenue may be put to a good cause, like improving the course. If they have a plan, If I were in your situation, I'd give it a year of chance.

BTW, your main complain about the course was difficulty of playing the course (OB areas, tiny greens). Others may enjoy the difficulty. Does it have other shortcomings?
[/quote]
Well there is zero talk about putting any potential increase in revenue into the course. In fact the course had plans to improve several areas prior to this new pro, all of which were scrapped except redoing two sandtraps (one of which they did wrong and is now a swamp). In fact their plans now only include a lesser number of staff members (which will lead to no ranger and slower rounds), less water consumption and who knows what else that I haven't heard about.

The course is not a difficult course. Its rating is a 67, however in Flagstaff we regularly see days with 50 MPH wind during certain times of the year. The shortcomings of the course layout and OB make it almost like goofy golf when you see how the greens can play. Honestly I've never talked to one single person that has said anything overly positive about the course, and this includes through the 20 years I've played the course and even worked at the course when I was younger. The Most positive thing I've ever heard about the course is that you can see wildlife and if you play the course a lot you'll have a small advantage because local knowledge is valuable on the course, moreso than others.

The other shortcomings are very numerous. Very few tee boxes are flat, poana is everywhere on the greens, literally no sand trap has the same sand as the next (this is no joke, every single sand trap is filled with different material and two sand traps have zero sand, just clay along with gravel size stones mixed in), the greens typically don't roll "true" until July if we are lucky and our true is not true to most courses, we only have two sets of tee boxes, and the worst part is the layout is so short with so much danger I am playing on tilt if I hit driver twice. I typically can't hit it at all.

After reading some responses and detailing the shortcomings of the course its boiling down to principle in my mind. How can I feel good about paying someone double what I did last year, get nothing added in return primarily because they can't run a business that makes a profit? If the gas station that is a mile closer increases their prices by 40% because they aren't doing well financially will I continue to stop there rather than drive further to get the same product at a lesser price? If the price increase was 5% I would consider stopping, at 40% no way in hell.

I guess I can modify my initial question. There is no way I am going to pay the increased rate. Should I start a boycott, try and rally up the mens club to travel to other venues, or just bag the whole thing and join the other courses club?

[KYMAR]

Bag the whole thing.

[mr_divots]

The men's club I played in had to pay full rack rate green fees like the public. I don't agree with it, but just some comparison there.

Think they want to do away with the mens club altogether and this is their [u]subtle way of making people leave? [/u]
If they can charge $75 versus what they're charging the mens club, and are in financial trouble, I might suspect they WANT you guys to leave?

[mark m]

How many members did the Men's Club have last year? Can you even make a guess for this year?

[jewofgolf]

I've played this course a few times and the one down the road, too. The one down the road is much better and is cheaper.

I agree, the course in question should not charge more than $40 to ride, including the fact that it's the only public track around. When I walk it at twilight for $15, I feel it's pretty fair. I live in the valley and visit flagstaff periodically.

I have no idea how that course can try to increase rates given the condition it's in, with the low amount of land to keep up, little maintenance that is done and wacky design is has. I've been told you can get on flagstaff ranch for around $100 if you call....how can this other one charge $75?!

[puttnforthe8]

SPEAK with your FEET!

I am sure one of the other courses would appreciate your $$.

The referenced course will feel the pain even more by raising rates. Things will get even worse with higher prices! Even fewer people will play now.

[DavePelz4]

[quote name='ncosper' timestamp='1389650718' post='8454165']
[quote name='robnplunder' timestamp='1389649143' post='8453983']
Your public course even with steep increse doesn't look so bad. And the increase revenue may be put to a good cause, like improving the course. If they have a plan, If I were in your situation, I'd give it a year of chance.

BTW, your main complain about the course was difficulty of playing the course (OB areas, tiny greens). Others may enjoy the difficulty. Does it have other shortcomings?
[/quote]
Well there is zero talk about putting any potential increase in revenue into the course. In fact the course had plans to improve several areas prior to this new pro, all of which were scrapped except redoing two sandtraps (one of which they did wrong and is now a swamp). In fact their plans now only include a lesser number of staff members (which will lead to no ranger and slower rounds), less water consumption and who knows what else that I haven't heard about.

The course is not a difficult course. Its rating is a 67, however in Flagstaff we regularly see days with 50 MPH wind during certain times of the year. The shortcomings of the course layout and OB make it almost like goofy golf when you see how the greens can play. Honestly I've never talked to one single person that has said anything overly positive about the course, and this includes through the 20 years I've played the course and even worked at the course when I was younger. The Most positive thing I've ever heard about the course is that you can see wildlife and if you play the course a lot you'll have a small advantage because local knowledge is valuable on the course, moreso than others.

The other shortcomings are very numerous. Very few tee boxes are flat, poana is everywhere on the greens, literally no sand trap has the same sand as the next (this is no joke, every single sand trap is filled with different material and two sand traps have zero sand, just clay along with gravel size stones mixed in), the greens typically don't roll "true" until July if we are lucky and our true is not true to most courses, we only have two sets of tee boxes, and the worst part is the layout is so short with so much danger I am playing on tilt if I hit driver twice. I typically can't hit it at all.

After reading some responses and detailing the shortcomings of the course its boiling down to principle in my mind. How can I feel good about paying someone double what I did last year, get nothing added in return primarily because they can't run a business that makes a profit? If the gas station that is a mile closer increases their prices by 40% because they aren't doing well financially will I continue to stop there rather than drive further to get the same product at a lesser price? If the price increase was 5% I would consider stopping, at 40% no way in hell.

I guess I can modify my initial question. There is no way I am going to pay the increased rate. Should I start a boycott, try and rally up the mens club to travel to other venues, or just bag the whole thing and join the other courses club?
[/quote][quote name='ncosper' timestamp='1389650718' post='8454165']
[quote name='robnplunder' timestamp='1389649143' post='8453983']
Your public course even with steep increse doesn't look so bad. And the increase revenue may be put to a good cause, like improving the course. If they have a plan, If I were in your situation, I'd give it a year of chance.

BTW, your main complain about the course was difficulty of playing the course (OB areas, tiny greens). Others may enjoy the difficulty. Does it have other shortcomings?
[/quote]
Well there is zero talk about putting any potential increase in revenue into the course. In fact the course had plans to improve several areas prior to this new pro, all of which were scrapped except redoing two sandtraps (one of which they did wrong and is now a swamp). In fact their plans now only include a lesser number of staff members (which will lead to no ranger and slower rounds), less water consumption and who knows what else that I haven't heard about.

The course is not a difficult course. Its rating is a 67, however in Flagstaff we regularly see days with 50 MPH wind during certain times of the year. The shortcomings of the course layout and OB make it almost like goofy golf when you see how the greens can play. Honestly I've never talked to one single person that has said anything overly positive about the course, and this includes through the 20 years I've played the course and even worked at the course when I was younger. The Most positive thing I've ever heard about the course is that you can see wildlife and if you play the course a lot you'll have a small advantage because local knowledge is valuable on the course, moreso than others.

The other shortcomings are very numerous. Very few tee boxes are flat, poana is everywhere on the greens, literally no sand trap has the same sand as the next (this is no joke, every single sand trap is filled with different material and two sand traps have zero sand, just clay along with gravel size stones mixed in), the greens typically don't roll "true" until July if we are lucky and our true is not true to most courses, we only have two sets of tee boxes, and the worst part is the layout is so short with so much danger I am playing on tilt if I hit driver twice. I typically can't hit it at all.

After reading some responses and detailing the shortcomings of the course its boiling down to principle in my mind. How can I feel good about paying someone double what I did last year, get nothing added in return primarily because they can't run a business that makes a profit? If the gas station that is a mile closer increases their prices by 40% because they aren't doing well financially will I continue to stop there rather than drive further to get the same product at a lesser price? If the price increase was 5% I would consider stopping, at 40% no way in hell.

I guess I can modify my initial question. There is no way I am going to pay the increased rate. Should I start a boycott, try and rally up the mens club to travel to other venues, or just bag the whole thing and join the other courses club?
[/quote]

OK...found the course...you made it very easy to do that, thank you. Couple of things. The reviews on the course, for the most part, are really good. The only negative seems to be the pro shop staff which fits with what you mentioned. It also referenced Coconino County rates[color="#000000"]...do you guys take advantage of the discount? [/color]

[color=#000000]A couple of thoughts. Why don't you use survey Monkey and poll the men's club on their willingness to go to another facility. if you get strong data you can sit down with the new GM and outline your case. It's not just the golf revenue they'd lose but the food and beverage, too. Let's make the assumption that the group doesn't want to move. When you hold your season kickoff meeting, invite the new GM/Pro to address the group and have them explain the increase and their intentions for the course.[/color]

[color=#000000]And I have to ask...do many people play Pickleball there?[/color]

[hef63303]

The rate increase seems so severe that it seems as though they are trying to chase your group off. I will say it would seem difficult for any non-tax suppported course to make it these days on what they have been charging you. The course conditions are probably as much a reflection of the fee structure as they are a lack of concern for the course. I have seen several courses in my area cut back on maintenance in accords with the lowering of greens fees to attact more play. The additional play then only makes the conditions worse. Eventually, the course becomes so beat up and the fees so low that the courses go out of business.

In your case, I would recommend going somewhere else to play. They did not make these decisions to increase fees without some thought as to what might happen. Less play at a higher average rate is a win for them. You can pay more and hope to have a better experience or go down the road and see how you like it there.

[RJRJRJ]

[quote name='hef63303' timestamp='1389657544' post='8454785']
The rate increase seems so severe that it seems as though they are trying to chase your group off. [/quote]

Thats exactly what I was thinking.

[gr8blueheronbird]

Sedona has some great courses only about a 1/2 hour drive from you. I would take my $$ down to Sedona where you could probably play more rounds per year due to the lower elevation.

[ncosper]

[quote name='mr_divots' timestamp='1389652640' post='8454343']
The men's club I played in had to pay full rack rate green fees like the public. I don't agree with it, but just some comparison there.

Think they want to do away with the mens club altogether and this is their [u]subtle way of making people leave? [/u]
If they can charge $75 versus what they're charging the mens club, and are in financial trouble, I might suspect they WANT you guys to leave?
[/quote]
I've definitely discussed the thought that they may want us to leave with another committee member. This could be true, if it is though its a terrible move. Most of the players that play in our club play a number of additional times per week. They will be losing the discounted fee they give us but what will hurt a lot more is all those added rounds we all play. Flagstaff is a pretty tight knit group when it comes to golf. Its the kind of town that if you piss us off youre screwed. Reputations are like wildfire in this town and overcharging the locals for the course will not only hurt while the rates are high but when they are forced to lower them (which to me seems inevitable) many won't return.

Flagstaff isn't really a golf destination. I sell real estate so I get a pretty good pulse on what visitors do when they come up as I sell a lot of second homes. Most people don't play Continental. Flagstaff is small enough and has enough private courses that most people know a member elsewhere a play there. I'm not sure of the makeup of golfers but all the times I've played tells me there are FAR more locals playing this course than visitors.

[ncosper]

[quote name='DavePelz4' timestamp='1389657400' post='8454757']
[quote name='ncosper' timestamp='1389650718' post='8454165']
[quote name='robnplunder' timestamp='1389649143' post='8453983']
Your public course even with steep increse doesn't look so bad. And the increase revenue may be put to a good cause, like improving the course. If they have a plan, If I were in your situation, I'd give it a year of chance.

BTW, your main complain about the course was difficulty of playing the course (OB areas, tiny greens). Others may enjoy the difficulty. Does it have other shortcomings?
[/quote]
Well there is zero talk about putting any potential increase in revenue into the course. In fact the course had plans to improve several areas prior to this new pro, all of which were scrapped except redoing two sandtraps (one of which they did wrong and is now a swamp). In fact their plans now only include a lesser number of staff members (which will lead to no ranger and slower rounds), less water consumption and who knows what else that I haven't heard about.

The course is not a difficult course. Its rating is a 67, however in Flagstaff we regularly see days with 50 MPH wind during certain times of the year. The shortcomings of the course layout and OB make it almost like goofy golf when you see how the greens can play. Honestly I've never talked to one single person that has said anything overly positive about the course, and this includes through the 20 years I've played the course and even worked at the course when I was younger. The Most positive thing I've ever heard about the course is that you can see wildlife and if you play the course a lot you'll have a small advantage because local knowledge is valuable on the course, moreso than others.

The other shortcomings are very numerous. Very few tee boxes are flat, poana is everywhere on the greens, literally no sand trap has the same sand as the next (this is no joke, every single sand trap is filled with different material and two sand traps have zero sand, just clay along with gravel size stones mixed in), the greens typically don't roll "true" until July if we are lucky and our true is not true to most courses, we only have two sets of tee boxes, and the worst part is the layout is so short with so much danger I am playing on tilt if I hit driver twice. I typically can't hit it at all.

After reading some responses and detailing the shortcomings of the course its boiling down to principle in my mind. How can I feel good about paying someone double what I did last year, get nothing added in return primarily because they can't run a business that makes a profit? If the gas station that is a mile closer increases their prices by 40% because they aren't doing well financially will I continue to stop there rather than drive further to get the same product at a lesser price? If the price increase was 5% I would consider stopping, at 40% no way in hell.

I guess I can modify my initial question. There is no way I am going to pay the increased rate. Should I start a boycott, try and rally up the mens club to travel to other venues, or just bag the whole thing and join the other courses club?
[/quote][quote name='ncosper' timestamp='1389650718' post='8454165']
[quote name='robnplunder' timestamp='1389649143' post='8453983']
Your public course even with steep increse doesn't look so bad. And the increase revenue may be put to a good cause, like improving the course. If they have a plan, If I were in your situation, I'd give it a year of chance.

BTW, your main complain about the course was difficulty of playing the course (OB areas, tiny greens). Others may enjoy the difficulty. Does it have other shortcomings?
[/quote]
Well there is zero talk about putting any potential increase in revenue into the course. In fact the course had plans to improve several areas prior to this new pro, all of which were scrapped except redoing two sandtraps (one of which they did wrong and is now a swamp). In fact their plans now only include a lesser number of staff members (which will lead to no ranger and slower rounds), less water consumption and who knows what else that I haven't heard about.

The course is not a difficult course. Its rating is a 67, however in Flagstaff we regularly see days with 50 MPH wind during certain times of the year. The shortcomings of the course layout and OB make it almost like goofy golf when you see how the greens can play. Honestly I've never talked to one single person that has said anything overly positive about the course, and this includes through the 20 years I've played the course and even worked at the course when I was younger. The Most positive thing I've ever heard about the course is that you can see wildlife and if you play the course a lot you'll have a small advantage because local knowledge is valuable on the course, moreso than others.

The other shortcomings are very numerous. Very few tee boxes are flat, poana is everywhere on the greens, literally no sand trap has the same sand as the next (this is no joke, every single sand trap is filled with different material and two sand traps have zero sand, just clay along with gravel size stones mixed in), the greens typically don't roll "true" until July if we are lucky and our true is not true to most courses, we only have two sets of tee boxes, and the worst part is the layout is so short with so much danger I am playing on tilt if I hit driver twice. I typically can't hit it at all.

After reading some responses and detailing the shortcomings of the course its boiling down to principle in my mind. How can I feel good about paying someone double what I did last year, get nothing added in return primarily because they can't run a business that makes a profit? If the gas station that is a mile closer increases their prices by 40% because they aren't doing well financially will I continue to stop there rather than drive further to get the same product at a lesser price? If the price increase was 5% I would consider stopping, at 40% no way in hell.

I guess I can modify my initial question. There is no way I am going to pay the increased rate. Should I start a boycott, try and rally up the mens club to travel to other venues, or just bag the whole thing and join the other courses club?
[/quote]

OK...found the course...you made it very easy to do that, thank you. Couple of things. The reviews on the course, for the most part, are really good. The only negative seems to be the pro shop staff which fits with what you mentioned. It also referenced Coconino County rates[color=#000000]...do you guys take advantage of the discount? [/color]

[color=#000000]A couple of thoughts. Why don't you use survey Monkey and poll the men's club on their willingness to go to another facility. if you get strong data you can sit down with the new GM and outline your case. It's not just the golf revenue they'd lose but the food and beverage, too. Let's make the assumption that the group doesn't want to move. When you hold your season kickoff meeting, invite the new GM/Pro to address the group and have them explain the increase and their intentions for the course.[/color]

[color=#000000]And I have to ask...do many people play Pickleball there?[/color]
[/quote]
There are more rates than they publish, the rates on their site are last years. Jack all those rates up by~40% and you'll have 2014's rates. Our rate is what I believe will be twilight, but is still a crazy high number for a twilight rate considering its double last years.
I will be doing a poll of the mens club most likely after I meet with my committee. It seems a club that plays several courses might be best. Might be a lot more fun also.....
Interestingly the way our course is set up the restaurant and bev cart is run by a separate restaurant. The course could care less about that. The course has tried to run it in the past and it was a miserable failure.

[Pepperturbo]

[quote name='ncosper' timestamp='1389638449' post='8452951']
A little background - I live in Flagstaff AZ. Its an awesome town but crap for golf (unless you have lots of $$$). We have 4 private courses, some are exceptional. We have 1 public course and quite frankly its garbage. 6,000 yards long, OB is present on every single hole, OB is so close the mow around the stakes on some holes. The greens are tiny and I've seen <5 handicap players 9 putt, the greens and pins are so bad. So yes, the course sucks but its all we got. We've had a mens club for a long time. Its been recently run down with a bad president so this last season I was voted to replace him.

As is common from what I understand throughout the country, our golf course isn't making money. Its part of a community and the HOA helps subsidize the course since it operates at a loss. A new pro was hire two seasons ago and is trying to change things drastically. Last year I was told the course lost $300k overall although I believe that number is greatly exaggerated.

In order to increase revenue I was told the course is now proceeding with basically a 40% rate increase on greens fees. Some seasonal rates are less some more than 40%.
Our mens club fees have changed from Guest rates of $19 walking off peak last year to $39 this year. Riding went from $25 to $55.

They've also decided that our driving range will be $7 for a small basket a $13 for a large. Thats not terrible, but the embarrassing part is they also are now expecting "employees" to volunteer for their positions, yes no pay. Their only perk is a discounted rate of $20 to play golf. As range employees they are not even allowed to hit range balls without paying full price.

My dilemma is as new elected mens club president, what do I do? My gut tells me to tell the course to shove it where the sun doesn't shine and my committee members have expressed they will do the same. We can join another mens club that is a 30 mile drive away. My pride tells me to stick it out. My anger tells me to rally together a full blown boycott.


What would you do in this situation?
[/quote]

30 miles away means, as gas prices inch upward, you might be spending in gas what your thought you'd be saving in golf costs, not to mention time commitment to drive there. I drive to a number of courses that are 20-70 miles from home. Even if my round is a tad over 4hrs, I leave 2 hrs early in some cases, and spend 30-1hr coming home. Do the time commitment math. For many that's an issue, but not so much for me, as I work when I want. I am in AZ at least 3-5 times per year and been paying average $50-75 per rd with some real upscale or private clubs as high as $275. You've been pretty lucky, so I wouldn't get your panties in a wad. Our prices in CA are inching upward too, but I've never seen what you've been paying.

[ncosper]

[quote name='hef63303' timestamp='1389657544' post='8454785']
The rate increase seems so severe that it seems as though they are trying to chase your group off. I will say it would seem difficult for any non-tax suppported course to make it these days on what they have been charging you. The course conditions are probably as much a reflection of the fee structure as they are a lack of concern for the course. I have seen several courses in my area cut back on maintenance in accords with the lowering of greens fees to attact more play. The additional play then only makes the conditions worse. Eventually, the course becomes so beat up and the fees so low that the courses go out of business.

In your case, I would recommend going somewhere else to play. They did not make these decisions to increase fees without some thought as to what might happen. Less play at a higher average rate is a win for them. You can pay more and hope to have a better experience or go down the road and see how you like it there.
[/quote]
The logic makes sense and I can see why they could think it could be successful. The rate increase was more severe for league play than others but the big jump in regular rates is going to scare off people also.
I can also assure you that there isn't a concern for the condition of the course. Proof positive is that we launch fireworks off from a bunker on the second hole. We warned the pro that there would be thousands of people on the course for the fireworks and they should either try a block of certain greens or at least have someone roaming to try and keep people off. The pros comment was that he wasn't concerned about any potential damage and there was no reason to police the greens. There is very little concern about course conditions coming from the current regime. If play decreases I can guarantee attention to the course maintenance will too. The maintenance company that does the course also maintains a nearby private course that gets far more attention than our.

[Guia]

Very good highway system in Flagstaff. Driver the 30 miles.

[ncosper]

[quote name='Pepperturbo' timestamp='1389665362' post='8455615']
[quote name='ncosper' timestamp='1389638449' post='8452951']
A little background - I live in Flagstaff AZ. Its an awesome town but crap for golf (unless you have lots of $$$). We have 4 private courses, some are exceptional. We have 1 public course and quite frankly its garbage. 6,000 yards long, OB is present on every single hole, OB is so close the mow around the stakes on some holes. The greens are tiny and I've seen <5 handicap players 9 putt, the greens and pins are so bad. So yes, the course sucks but its all we got. We've had a mens club for a long time. Its been recently run down with a bad president so this last season I was voted to replace him.

As is common from what I understand throughout the country, our golf course isn't making money. Its part of a community and the HOA helps subsidize the course since it operates at a loss. A new pro was hire two seasons ago and is trying to change things drastically. Last year I was told the course lost $300k overall although I believe that number is greatly exaggerated.

In order to increase revenue I was told the course is now proceeding with basically a 40% rate increase on greens fees. Some seasonal rates are less some more than 40%.
Our mens club fees have changed from Guest rates of $19 walking off peak last year to $39 this year. Riding went from $25 to $55.

They've also decided that our driving range will be $7 for a small basket a $13 for a large. Thats not terrible, but the embarrassing part is they also are now expecting "employees" to volunteer for their positions, yes no pay. Their only perk is a discounted rate of $20 to play golf. As range employees they are not even allowed to hit range balls without paying full price.

My dilemma is as new elected mens club president, what do I do? My gut tells me to tell the course to shove it where the sun doesn't shine and my committee members have expressed they will do the same. We can join another mens club that is a 30 mile drive away. My pride tells me to stick it out. My anger tells me to rally together a full blown boycott.


What would you do in this situation?
[/quote]

30 miles away means, as gas prices inch upward, you might be spending in gas what your thought you'd be saving in golf costs, not to mention time commitment to drive there. I drive to a number of courses that are 20-70 miles from home. Even if my round is a tad over 4hrs, I leave 2 hrs early in some cases, and spend 30-1hr coming home. Do the time commitment math. For many that's an issue, but not so much for me, as I work when I want. I am in AZ at least 3-5 times per year and been paying average $50-75 per rd with some real upscale or private clubs as high as $275. You've been pretty lucky, so I wouldn't get your panties in a wad. Our prices in CA are inching upward too, but I've never seen what you've been paying.
[/quote]

I drive a car that gets 28 mpg, so I'm burning $7 at most to drive. Time is the biggest reason why I haven't played in the other courses mens club in the past. The question is, is $15 every week to play a course none of us particularly like worth 1 hour a week in drive time? In addition to the principle of the rate increase, to me yes principle of the matter would be plenty of reason to drive. I've never been the type to bend over and grab my ankles.

Phoenix is an entirely different animal. If you are paying $50-75 of average I know exactly what courses you're playing. I've also played the $275 per round courses. Our course in the Valley would be $25 most of the time $35 on the weekend in the winter. Its no where near the same type of course you're playing in Phoenix.

And yes if you were paying what we paid last year in California you'd be playing a computerized course in your garage. Every locale has different pricing, comparing Phoenix/California is unfair comparison at best.

[ncosper]

[quote name='gr8blueheronbird' timestamp='1389661931' post='8455271']
Sedona has some great courses only about a 1/2 hour drive from you. I would take my $$ down to Sedona where you could probably play more rounds per year due to the lower elevation.
[/quote]
We do play sedona during the winter but summer rates are crazy expensive. They actually have nice courses, loads of golf playing tourism and charge accordingly. No course is really closer than 45 minutes and is a lot longer in the summer when people cant drive faster than 10 mph.

[ncosper]

[quote name='puttnforthe8' timestamp='1389654015' post='8454443']
SPEAK with your FEET!

I am sure one of the other courses would appreciate your $$.

The referenced course will feel the pain even more by raising rates. Things will get even worse with higher prices! Even fewer people will play now.
[/quote]
That exactly what I think will happen. Thing are run so poorly I could see this new gm messing things up enough that the course closes. If that happens it likely forces a second private course to close because alot of things are shared financially. I fear this because I live in the country club and I can't think of a fast way to kill my property value than to have two defunct golf courses in the "country club".
I spoke with the pro at the course 30 min away and he was excited as hell to hear the news. He knows the course and knows that its no where near worth what they will charge. He welcomes the business, will host our club play, and was very happy to hear about our courses rate plans.

[robnplunder]

Good riddance. Sounds like already terrible course just got worse with price hike and don't care management. Good luck with new course.

[teejaywhy]

A sad situation up there in Flag. Top notch private golf but the sole public offering is truly dismal.

I'm not sure a boycott is necessary, the market will speak for itself.

How big is the men's club / how many rounds of golf it brings to the course annually? If it is significant, then you have leverage. If the management feels that the men's club displaces revenue from others that will pay higher rates, then it's possible they are happy to see the men's club go.

The problems are several:
Even thought the course has a marginal design and is undermaintained, they are the [i]only game in town[/i].
If a course is losing money some changes have to be made. Let's be honest, $25 w cart is underpriced.

But then, $55 is overpriced. Sounds like they are trying to get it back all at once. The thing is, cutting salary and maintenance and raising green fees won't fix the problems at that course. They will just have less people paying higher rates at a course that will still be a marginal design that is undermaintained. It is not a course that will ever attract tourists. In my eyes, it is a locals course, supported by locals. If the management drives away the locals, who's left?

Would be interested to know how many will line up to work volunteer jobs.

Not sure there is any solution other than a longer drive to the neighboring town. Good luck sir!