Tee if Forward: Ego vs Courage?

[ABgolfer2]

Never played a course as long as either formula and I really have no desire to. I like a course with a sprinkling of holes that dont a require a driver off the tee.

[llewol007]

I think the tee it forward is more of a reality check for a lot of players. A lot of courses are dealing with slow play and the main culprit are people playing incorrect tees. There usually is a reason they put those darn things on the score card as a reference to follow. I believe this is one way more people will buy into the fact that, either 1 their skill level warrants them moving up a tee, 2 they have the smoothest swing that yields 150 off the tee regardless of what club they use or 3 this is their best shot to hit driver off the tee like they do with their large bucket of golf balls on the driving range and not work on anything that would impact their score such as putting, chipping, pitch and sand bunkers. Oh no because on a good day when their driver is on fire they will hit maybe 2 or 3 out of the 14 holes that warrant a driver. Tee it forward and enjoy the game more. Please!!!!!!

[goobers80]

[color=#800080]I rarely play a non tournament rounds from any tee but the forward tees. Some are even under 5,000 yards. I can hits driver / pitch shot. 3 wood / wedge ands iron / iron(wedge) into greens. I wants those rounds as easy as possible. I can play aggressive all day , precision golf , or safe golf. It teaches me differents approaches.[/color]

[color=#800080]If i go back to 6,800 yards ands using driver all day , it teaches me nothings for tournament play.[/color]

[BillyZ2]

Just got back from a trip to Orlando, and noticed several times guys playing from the wrong tees. One particular group was playing the back tees at the LPGA course and continued to duff the ball off the tee and fairway. I only play from the men's white or forward tees, otherwise golf would be very frustrating. Those guys must have had 'miserable' rounds! I do know they slowed the play considerably.

[drumdude96]

Sometimes I experience or see just the opposite problem. Please don't bash on me, this post has nothing to do with ego or anything like that, but I actually wish the courses were longer in my neck of the woods. I average around 285-290 with the driver and most courses around here are only around 6000 yards. I hit into par 5's (second shot) with wedges sometimes. I wish courses could do more to cater to EVERYBODY and all golfing abilities, not just the average Joe-Schmoe. I know I could tee off with something other than driver to change things up, but that isn't nearly as fun. Also, I do occasionally see other guys playing from the forward tees when they should be playing from the back tees based on their length and ability. But I would say the majority do play the back when they have no business back there, and it is extremely frustrating waiting for them to get to the green when you're ready to tee off. If everyone would hit from where they should be teeing from, I think the game would be more enjoyable (and a lot faster!!!) for all of us.

[Parker0065]

It's unfortunate that most of us view the tee boxes from a gender/age perspective! I'm just as guilty as anyone having started playing back in the 1970's when men were men,,,lol!

The most forward tees being named the "Women's Tee's" is unfortunate. Ego is never going to allow 98% of your average golfers to play from the [i][b]"proper tees"[/b][/i]!

Bash away, but if you want to grow golf and make it fun, here's my version of tee's for [b][i]grown men:[/i][/b]

Beginners: Tee off from the 200 Yard Marker. It's going to make [i][b]everybody[/b][/i] happy!!!!

10-30 Handicap: Tee off at most forward tee(ie....women's tees) Most 10-30 handicaps are completely delusional on their abilities and would enjoy the game so much more having opportunities to break 80 or 90!

1-9 Handicap: "normal mens tees": Most 1-9 handicaps are semi-delusional on how good they really are and will enjoy the game most from this distance occasionally shooting under par!

Scratch/D1/Pro: Back Tees: You know who and what you are.

[Argonne69]

I played a course outside Orlando last week, and the head pro told me that they basically moved the blue tees to the tee box that used to hold the white tees. He said most players didn't notice, or didn't care, that they were playing ~400 yards shorter than before. Their egos were satisfied, as they were still playing the "manly" blue tees. Oy vey.

[arnold palmtree]

[quote name='drumdude96' timestamp='1392831045' post='8702411']
Sometimes I experience or see just the opposite problem. Please don't bash on me, this post has nothing to do with ego or anything like that, but I actually wish the courses were longer in my neck of the woods. I average around 285-290 with the driver and most courses around here are only around 6000 yards. I hit into par 5's (second shot) with wedges sometimes. I wish courses could do more to cater to EVERYBODY and all golfing abilities, not just the average Joe-Schmoe. I know I could tee off with something other than driver to change things up, but that isn't nearly as fun. Also, I do occasionally see other guys playing from the forward tees when they should be playing from the back tees based on their length and ability. But I would say the majority do play the back when they have no business back there, and it is extremely frustrating waiting for them to get to the green when you're ready to tee off. If everyone would hit from where they should be teeing from, I think the game would be more enjoyable (and a lot faster!!!) for all of us.
[/quote]

I wish someone would address the older guys playing from the senior tees who are far too long to be playing those tees.

[drumdude96]

[quote name='arnold palmtree' timestamp='1392849680' post='8704389']
[quote name='drumdude96' timestamp='1392831045' post='8702411']
Sometimes I experience or see just the opposite problem. Please don't bash on me, this post has nothing to do with ego or anything like that, but I actually wish the courses were longer in my neck of the woods. I average around 285-290 with the driver and most courses around here are only around 6000 yards. I hit into par 5's (second shot) with wedges sometimes. I wish courses could do more to cater to EVERYBODY and all golfing abilities, not just the average Joe-Schmoe. I know I could tee off with something other than driver to change things up, but that isn't nearly as fun. Also, I do occasionally see other guys playing from the forward tees when they should be playing from the back tees based on their length and ability. But I would say the majority do play the back when they have no business back there, and it is extremely frustrating waiting for them to get to the green when you're ready to tee off. If everyone would hit from where they should be teeing from, I think the game would be more enjoyable (and a lot faster!!!) for all of us.
[/quote]

I wish someone would address the older guys playing from the senior tees who are far too long to be playing those tees.
[/quote]

I'm talking about younger guys who can hit it 250-300 yards regularly who choose to play the forward tees because they are too much of a weiner to accept a bit more of a challenge. If you can knock it 300 yards and you shoot a low score from the forward tees, I'm not at all impressed with your score. It's easy to shoot low if you can reach every green with a 5 wood or a hybrid. Where I come from, we call that sandbagging, or being a pu$$y, whichever you prefer.

[BillyZ2]

[quote name='Parker0065' timestamp='1392845067' post='8703959']
It's unfortunate that most of us view the tee boxes from a gender/age perspective! I'm just as guilty as anyone having started playing back in the 1970's when men were men,,,lol!

The most forward tees being named the "Women's Tee's" is unfortunate. Ego is never going to allow 98% of your average golfers to play from the [i][b]"proper tees"[/b][/i]!

Bash away, but if you want to grow golf and make it fun, here's my version of tee's for [b][i]grown men:[/i][/b]

Beginners: Tee off from the 200 Yard Marker. It's going to make [i][b]everybody[/b][/i] happy!!!!

10-30 Handicap: Tee off at most forward tee(ie....women's tees) Most 10-30 handicaps are completely delusional on their abilities and would enjoy the game so much more having opportunities to break 80 or 90!

1-9 Handicap: "normal mens tees": Most 1-9 handicaps are semi-delusional on how good they really are and will enjoy the game most from this distance occasionally shooting under par!

Scratch/D1/Pro: Back Tees: You know who and what you are.
[/quote]
Lol, I am a big proponent of playing at the proper tees, but as a 13 hc, i'm not playing from the women's tees. Your comment goes too far. I like playing from the middle tees and do quite well from them, and never hold anybody up. Sometimes ego can cause other bad decisions.

[Ruddy]

The USGA Handicap system is to blame for part of the refusal to play forward tees. E.g., I played the middle tees on a par69 course, shot the low round of my group with an honest 80, or +11 over par. Entering the score at USGA Ghin website, they awarded me a +13 based on the course slope/rating! Not good for a 11hc! To get a decent Ghin rating, I must play the back tees, or my +13 score goes into Ghin as +15! The USGA needs to fix this if they want to grow the game and speed it up at the same time.

[Ruddy]

Whether to tee it up forward or back is actually the wrong question .
The question should be: "Have I taken enough lessons, practiced enough to go out on a public course and try to fit my play into the course tempo?"
Before I get bashed all to hades, the real issue here is slow play. Playing the back tees is just one of many amateur mistakes. Beginners take just as long on short shots as they do on long shots. The reason they are slow is because they don't know what the're doing. They are PLAYING to learn, not LEARNING to play. Personally , I never set foot on a course before I completed 6 lessons and many hours of practice . These days, everyone is too impatient to take time to learn, and their sense of entitlement dictates their right to be on the course in front of you.
Sorry for the rant, I just spent 4hours behind 5 snowbirds who couldn'tpour pi$$ out of a boot if the instructions were written on the heel.

[EJ Mac]

[quote name='goobers80' timestamp='1392072383' post='8639559']
[color=#800080]I rarely play a non tournament rounds from any tee but the forward tees. Some are even under 5,000 yards. I can hits driver / pitch shot. 3 wood / wedge ands iron / iron(wedge) into greens. I wants those rounds as easy as possible. I can play aggressive all day , precision golf , or safe golf. It teaches me differents approaches.[/color]

[color=#800080]If i go back to 6,800 yards ands using driver all day , it teaches me nothings for tournament play.[/color]
[/quote]Wow Sammy thanks for that post. I am sure versions of it have been posted before now, but for some reason reading you prospective on it turned a switch on for me. I am gonna have to try this my next time out as I could definitely use a new and fresh approach to try and hone those weaker points of my game.

[xrt99]

If you can hit the ball out there somewhat consistently and give yourself an iron in on most par 4's, play whatever tee that may be. For me it ends up being somewhere in the 6500-6800 yard range.

I've seen 8-10 HC's that are long as hell do just fine from the back tees and then butcher it from 150 in. Moving up 20-25 yards a tee box isn't going to change the fact that they can't score with their scoring clubs. These guys are rare compared to most in that HC range but they do exist.

[Ruddy]

I've seen 8-10 HC's that are long as hell do just fine from the back tees and then butcher it from 150 in. Moving up 20-25 yards a tee box isn't going to change the fact that they can't score with their scoring clubs. These guys are rare compared to most in that HC range but they do exist.

You just described me to a "T", except I'm a 13hc. I score the same, usually , from 5800 - 6600 yards. Lawd, help my short game!

[sopel10]

My problem is similar. I have gained some considerate yardage over the past two years. Tees under 6400 and I usually don't use a driver too often. Problem is, my dad wants to play the same tees as me. For a while I said fine, and would play 6800 but it was just painful to watch. His drives average 190 or so, great hit being 200. He's only 50 and very strong, but also very stubborn and doesn't want to take lessons, thinks he can figure it all out on his own.

So anyways, I've been playing shorter tees lately bc of my dad. Brings more strategy into play, I can play holes in so many different ways. Long term I still want to play longer tees....just need to convince him he should play tees where he doesn't need driver driver to get to the front of the green.

[Parker0065]

[quote name='Tom Gski' timestamp='1392855244' post='8704923']
[quote name='Parker0065' timestamp='1392845067' post='8703959']
It's unfortunate that most of us view the tee boxes from a gender/age perspective! I'm just as guilty as anyone having started playing back in the 1970's when men were men,,,lol!

The most forward tees being named the "Women's Tee's" is unfortunate. Ego is never going to allow 98% of your average golfers to play from the [i][b]"proper tees"[/b][/i]!

Bash away, but if you want to grow golf and make it fun, here's my version of tee's for [b][i]grown men:[/i][/b]

Beginners: Tee off from the 200 Yard Marker. It's going to make [i][b]everybody[/b][/i] happy!!!!

10-30 Handicap: Tee off at most forward tee(ie....women's tees) Most 10-30 handicaps are completely delusional on their abilities and would enjoy the game so much more having opportunities to break 80 or 90!

1-9 Handicap: "normal mens tees": Most 1-9 handicaps are semi-delusional on how good they really are and will enjoy the game most from this distance occasionally shooting under par!

Scratch/D1/Pro: Back Tees: You know who and what you are.
[/quote]
Lol, I am a big proponent of playing at the proper tees, but as a 13 hc, i'm not playing from the women's tees. Your comment goes too far. I like playing from the middle tees and do quite well from them, and never hold anybody up. Sometimes ego can cause other bad decisions.
[/quote]

Hey Tom,
No Prob, lol!
A lot of it has to do with course rating. I made my comment based on my home course that is just brutal to beginners and medium/high handicappers due to many long carries on tee shots.

Overall I do believe most people need to "move up" but don't due to ego. When my Father-inlaw was in his late 60's I had to work on him for a couple years to finally get him to play from the Senior Tees, and it was all because some of his regular senior playing partners also refused to move up.
All 100% EGO!!!!!!!

[DublinBomber]

one of my favorite courses to play is about 5600 yards. the greens are extremely tricky on it as well, so your short game has to be on.

[Titleist 670]

Lumping people together on where they should play based on handicap doesn't tell the whole story. If you're looking at pace of play, people who play slow are going to play slow no
[quote name='Parker0065' timestamp='1392869847' post='8706775']
[quote name='Tom Gski' timestamp='1392855244' post='8704923']
[quote name='Parker0065' timestamp='1392845067' post='8703959']
It's unfortunate that most of us view the tee boxes from a gender/age perspective! I'm just as guilty as anyone having started playing back in the 1970's when men were men,,,lol!

The most forward tees being named the "Women's Tee's" is unfortunate. Ego is never going to allow 98% of your average golfers to play from the [i][b]"proper tees"[/b][/i]!

Bash away, but if you want to grow golf and make it fun, here's my version of tee's for [b][i]grown men:[/i][/b]

Beginners: Tee off from the 200 Yard Marker. It's going to make [i][b]everybody[/b][/i] happy!!!!

10-30 Handicap: Tee off at most forward tee(ie....women's tees) Most 10-30 handicaps are completely delusional on their abilities and would enjoy the game so much more having opportunities to break 80 or 90!

1-9 Handicap: "normal mens tees": Most 1-9 handicaps are semi-delusional on how good they really are and will enjoy the game most from this distance occasionally shooting under par!

Scratch/D1/Pro: Back Tees: You know who and what you are.
[/quote]
Lol, I am a big proponent of playing at the proper tees, but as a 13 hc, i'm not playing from the women's tees. Your comment goes too far. I like playing from the middle tees and do quite well from them, and never hold anybody up. Sometimes ego can cause other bad decisions.
[/quote]

Hey Tom,
No Prob, lol!
A lot of it has to do with course rating. I made my comment based on my home course that is just brutal to beginners and medium/high handicappers due to many long carries on tee shots.

Overall I do believe most people need to "move up" but don't due to ego. When my Father-inlaw was in his late 60's I had to work on him for a couple years to finally get him to play from the Senior Tees, and it was all because some of his regular senior playing partners also refused to move up.
All 100% EGO!!!!!!!
[/quote]

You made your comment saying how pretty much anyone who isn't scratch is completely or semi-delusional in their abilities, which is an arrogant thing to say.

There are plenty of guys with 10 - 15 handicaps who play fast and hit the ball far enough to play the regular men's tees. Asking them to play the tees farthest forward is absolutely silly. It would also grossly slow up play, as you'd be waiting on several par 4's on most courses to clear the green (or close to it) before you could hit.

I played the senior tees on a couple of courses with ridiculous slope ratings that were tight - I ended up hitting 9-iron, wedge to multiple par 4's that were brutally short doglegs. It was not enjoyable. But then again I'm completely delusional in my ability, like any mid handicapper, and should stick to playing a pitch and putt.

[Imp]

[quote name='Tom Gski' timestamp='1392855244' post='8704923']
[quote name='Parker0065' timestamp='1392845067' post='8703959']
It's unfortunate that most of us view the tee boxes from a gender/age perspective! I'm just as guilty as anyone having started playing back in the 1970's when men were men,,,lol!

The most forward tees being named the "Women's Tee's" is unfortunate. Ego is never going to allow 98% of your average golfers to play from the [i][b]"proper tees"[/b][/i]!

Bash away, but if you want to grow golf and make it fun, here's my version of tee's for [b][i]grown men:[/i][/b]

Beginners: Tee off from the 200 Yard Marker. It's going to make [i][b]everybody[/b][/i] happy!!!!

10-30 Handicap: Tee off at most forward tee(ie....women's tees) Most 10-30 handicaps are completely delusional on their abilities and would enjoy the game so much more having opportunities to break 80 or 90!

1-9 Handicap: "normal mens tees": Most 1-9 handicaps are semi-delusional on how good they really are and will enjoy the game most from this distance occasionally shooting under par!

Scratch/D1/Pro: Back Tees: You know who and what you are.
[/quote]
Lol, I am a big proponent of playing at the proper tees, but as a 13 hc, i'm not playing from the women's tees. Your comment goes too far. I like playing from the middle tees and do quite well from them, and never hold anybody up. Sometimes ego can cause other bad decisions.
[/quote]Good morning Tom,

Could you please point out where in the USGA manuals where they call any tees "Womens" tees or "Mens" tees? I saw your post (quoted) and am having a hard time trying to find a citation to quote here to support your view. Last I knew, (and things certainly could have changed) tees are only points on the course where people with different handicaps/indexes should tee off from, which are completely gender agnostic.

Thanks,
--kC

[Bad9]

[quote name='Parker0065' timestamp='1392869847' post='8706775']
All 100% EGO!!!!!!!
[/quote]

As per the OP it's just because they don't have enough courage.

[bk52]

The handicap manual definitely differentiates course ratings between female and male. Some courses have certain tees only rated for females or males. A male player regularly playing from a set of tees rated only for females would have a difficult time maintaining a correct handicap as would a female playing tees rated only for males.

My home course happens to rate every set of tees for both female and male players save the "Championship" tees (male only). The tee designations are gender neutral (Championship, Back, Middle, Forward). There continue to be many courses, however, which only rate the forward tee for female players and designate tees by gender.

[Imp]

[quote name='bk52' timestamp='1392900044' post='8707821']
The handicap manual definitely differentiates course ratings between female and male. Some courses have certain tees only rated for females or males. A male player regularly playing from a set of tees rated only for females would have a difficult time maintaining a correct handicap as would a female playing tees rated only for males.

My home course happens to rate every set of tees for both female and male players save the "Championship" tees (male only). The tee designations are gender neutral (Championship, Back, Middle, Forward). There continue to be many courses, however, which only rate the forward tee for female players and designate tees by gender.
[/quote]In the US or outside of the US? It may make a difference. USGA course/slope per tee is not based on sex, but on the difficulty it would take the scratch golfer to complete the hole from that particular tee. The course handicap table should list the handicaps for each hole based on tee selected and gender.

The difficulty of the hole may be different depending on sex, (forced carries, obstacles, etc...) so the hole handicaps may be different between men and women on the same holes, but course/slope ratings per tee get applied the same to both male/female (in the US under USGA). You multiply your index with the slope rating, divide by 113, rounded to nearest whole number. That's your course handicap. Then after that, women will have different holes they get strokes from vs men, but that's all based on hole difficulty and not by teeing ground.

--kC

[Desert Golf]

Call me skeptical but I've never met this mid/high handicap golfer who has a steller long game but falls apart when he has a shot with anything less than a 7 iron.

If you are this golfer, please go to the range and dial in your short irons and wedges. They really are the easiest clubs to hit.

[Imp]

*shakes Desert Golf's hand*

Hi. I'm a 12.9. My long game is fairly consistent. My short game is hit or miss. If anything, 7i or under, I'm short, or to the side. I play on many courses here in Southern New England that were influenced or even designed by Donald Ross. His greens by todays standards are generally on the small side, and not flat.

Last year I was about 50% at hitting fairways and 40% on par 5s, 28% on par 4s and 35% on par 3s for GIRs. The Par 3 GIR really drives home the "under 7i" accuracy... not good.

I consider 50% rather good for FWYs. Stellar? Depends on your definition (and if you're BrianL99).

--kC

[BillyZ2]

[quote name='Parker0065' timestamp='1392869847' post='8706775']
[quote name='Tom Gski' timestamp='1392855244' post='8704923']
[quote name='Parker0065' timestamp='1392845067' post='8703959']
It's unfortunate that most of us view the tee boxes from a gender/age perspective! I'm just as guilty as anyone having started playing back in the 1970's when men were men,,,lol!

The most forward tees being named the "Women's Tee's" is unfortunate. Ego is never going to allow 98% of your average golfers to play from the [i][b]"proper tees"[/b][/i]!

Bash away, but if you want to grow golf and make it fun, here's my version of tee's for [b][i]grown men:[/i][/b]

Beginners: Tee off from the 200 Yard Marker. It's going to make [i][b]everybody[/b][/i] happy!!!!

10-30 Handicap: Tee off at most forward tee(ie....women's tees) Most 10-30 handicaps are completely delusional on their abilities and would enjoy the game so much more having opportunities to break 80 or 90!

1-9 Handicap: "normal mens tees": Most 1-9 handicaps are semi-delusional on how good they really are and will enjoy the game most from this distance occasionally shooting under par!

Scratch/D1/Pro: Back Tees: You know who and what you are.
[/quote]
Lol, I am a big proponent of playing at the proper tees, but as a 13 hc, i'm not playing from the women's tees. Your comment goes too far. I like playing from the middle tees and do quite well from them, and never hold anybody up. Sometimes ego can cause other bad decisions.
[/quote]

Hey Tom,
No Prob, lol!
A lot of it has to do with course rating. I made my comment based on my home course that is just brutal to beginners and medium/high handicappers due to many long carries on tee shots.

Overall I do believe most people need to "move up" but don't due to ego. When my Father-inlaw was in his late 60's I had to work on him for a couple years to finally get him to play from the Senior Tees, and it was all because some of his regular senior playing partners also refused to move up.
All 100% EGO!!!!!!!
[/quote]I agree with you, most people need to move up. It gets frustrating playing behind duffers playing the tips, I have seen it too many times. It really is an insult to the etiquette of the game. I blame some of it on the rangers who don't do anything about it. In Orlando last week, I was playing behind a "fivesome" who were playing slow as it was approaching dusk. We called the ranger and gave him a little guff to get them moving. We were able to get the round in. Golf etiquette, many don't know what it means.

[Argonne69]

[quote name='Imp' timestamp='1392903594' post='8708047']
[quote name='bk52' timestamp='1392900044' post='8707821']
The handicap manual definitely differentiates course ratings between female and male. Some courses have certain tees only rated for females or males. A male player regularly playing from a set of tees rated only for females would have a difficult time maintaining a correct handicap as would a female playing tees rated only for males.

My home course happens to rate every set of tees for both female and male players save the "Championship" tees (male only). The tee designations are gender neutral (Championship, Back, Middle, Forward). There continue to be many courses, however, which only rate the forward tee for female players and designate tees by gender.
[/quote]In the US or outside of the US? It may make a difference. USGA course/slope per tee is not based on sex, but on the difficulty it would take the scratch golfer to complete the hole from that particular tee. The course handicap table should list the handicaps for each hole based on tee selected and gender.

The difficulty of the hole may be different depending on sex, (forced carries, obstacles, etc...) so the hole handicaps may be different between men and women on the same holes, but course/slope ratings per tee get applied the same to both male/female (in the US under USGA). You multiply your index with the slope rating, divide by 113, rounded to nearest whole number. That's your course handicap. Then after that, women will have different holes they get strokes from vs men, but that's all based on hole difficulty and not by teeing ground.

--kC
[/quote]

Huh? I've seen many a scorecard with different rating for the men/women from the same tees.

For example, I played Harmony Golf Preserve in Orlando last week. The Blue tees are rated at 71.1/126 for men, and 77.5/139 for women. The White tees are 68.7/123 for men, and 74.5/131 for women.

[bk52]

Here is an example pulled from the USGA Course Rating (Fox Hills - Classic Fox, Plymouth, MI):

[color=windowtext]BACK [/color][color=windowtext]70.4 [/color][color=windowtext]127 [/color][color=windowtext]M[/color]

[color=#040D2E]MIDDLE[/color] [color=#040D2E]68.0[/color] [color=#040D2E]123[/color] [color=#040D2E]M[/color]

[color=windowtext]FORWARD[/color] [color=windowtext]66.3[/color] 1[color=windowtext]21 [/color][color=windowtext]M[/color]

[color=#040D2E]FORWARD [/color][color=#040D2E]72.1[/color] 1[color=#040D2E]30[/color] [color=#040D2E]F[/color]

[color=windowtext]FRONT[/color] [color=windowtext]68.7[/color] [color=windowtext]121 [/color][color=windowtext]F[/color]


[color=#000000]A male playing the "Front Tees" would not be able to compute a course handicap since the tee is not rated for males. Similarly, a female would be unable to compute a course handicap for the Back and Middle tees since neither of those are rated for females.[/color]

[Imp]

Ahh, now I understand. Got it.

In your case, the course applied different ratings per tee for women and men. Interesting. Courses around here have not done that.

--kC

[Argonne69]

[quote name='Imp' timestamp='1392916474' post='8709213']
Ahh, now I understand. Got it.

In your case, the course applied different ratings per tee for women and men. Interesting. Courses around here have not done that.

--kC
[/quote]

Yes, not every course has a different slope for men and women.

I assume it's based on the course layout. I believe the slope is based on using an average drive of 250 yards for men, and a smaller value for women. If the landing area is basically the same at these two distances, there won't be a numerical difference. However, if there are forced carries, or bunkers that come into play, or don't come into play, the difficultly will be different.