Reasons Juniors Get DQ in tournaments

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Comments

  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members Posts: 3,003 ✭✭
    leezer99 wrote:


    benlenahan wrote:


    Was the coach made aware before the round was over is the question I have. I also believe we are talking about High School Golf. I think it is safe to say that most high school coaches do not know that the penalty was a DQ. I didn't know it and would have to look it up. High School coaches aren't even close to rules officials. I don't think it was dirty for that reason. It is just being unaware.




    I don’t know as I was not the coach. I’d say HS coaches are pretty adequate on their rules knowledge, at least the few I’ve been around. Some are even sticklers about it. Just the other day in the state tournament, I was loged under a pine tree (yes, that’s how the round went), and was informed by my playing partners coach that if I were to cause one needle to fall whilst testing my backswing he would call me for a penalty, before I even stepped up to my ball. Anything to gain a stroke or two I guess, even if it goes to lengths of ruining a kids tournament by some unknown rule.



    And no, I did not cause any needles to fall, and did not incure a penalty.




    Why would needles falling cause you to have a penalty?




    13-2. Improving Lie, Area of Intended Stance or Swing, or Line of Play. 2 stroke penalty.



    Only applies to practice swings. Actual swing with intent to hit ball does not.




    How do falling needles improve the lie or stance?
  • SixcatSixcat SWVAPosts: 1,416 ✭✭
    edited Oct 5, 2018 #33
    Noles wrote:

    Sixcat wrote:


    I witnessed a high school kid get DQ'd about 5 years ago for signing an incorrect scorecard after not declaring a provisional, playing a provisional and then choosing to play the provisional even after the original was found. It was the final round of the state tournament at my home club. The kids team finished second by a couple of shots. Whole team got punished by his mistake. In Virginia, 6 play for 4 scores. The 5th and 6th player on his team were both in the 100's. His score, even with penalties, would have been more than enough to secure a state title.
    This confuses me. If he didn't say that it was a provisional, then by rule that ball is in play. He played the ball that was in play. What was the infraction?




    He finished the hole with his "provisional" without taking penalty for the original, hence, signing for a wrong score. It was a long and heated argument that led to some disciplinary action against the kid and his coach.



    Edit to add; He demanded he had made a birdie on the hole after hitting two tee shots and finishing the hole with the second.
  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members Posts: 3,003 ✭✭
    leezer99 wrote:






    Read it again... 'improving intended stance or swing'. Imagine there were a branch in my backswing that prevented me from going back more than halfway. If I broke that branch during a practice swing and could now take a full swing that would be considered improving intended swing.




    I understand that. I don't understand needles falling. It is common in a practice swing near a tree or solid structure to lie the club against a tree or even a branch to see how far back you can go without being obstructed. That is not a penalty. If a pine needle falls from the tree while doing so, that is also not a penalty. You can brush your club against the pine needles on the ground, move them, and would not be a penalty.

    Sixcat wrote:

    Noles wrote:

    Sixcat wrote:


    I witnessed a high school kid get DQ'd about 5 years ago for signing an incorrect scorecard after not declaring a provisional, playing a provisional and then choosing to play the provisional even after the original was found. It was the final round of the state tournament at my home club. The kids team finished second by a couple of shots. Whole team got punished by his mistake. In Virginia, 6 play for 4 scores. The 5th and 6th player on his team were both in the 100's. His score, even with penalties, would have been more than enough to secure a state title.
    This confuses me. If he didn't say that it was a provisional, then by rule that ball is in play. He played the ball that was in play. What was the infraction?




    He finished the hole with his "provisional" without taking penalty for the original, hence, signing for a wrong score. It was a long and heated argument that led to some disciplinary action against the kid and his coach.



    Edit to add; He demanded he had made a birdie on the hole after hitting two tee shots and finishing the hole with the second.




    He should have been DQ'd.
  • NolesNoles Posts: 1,420 ✭✭
    Sixcat wrote:

    Noles wrote:

    Sixcat wrote:


    I witnessed a high school kid get DQ'd about 5 years ago for signing an incorrect scorecard after not declaring a provisional, playing a provisional and then choosing to play the provisional even after the original was found. It was the final round of the state tournament at my home club. The kids team finished second by a couple of shots. Whole team got punished by his mistake. In Virginia, 6 play for 4 scores. The 5th and 6th player on his team were both in the 100's. His score, even with penalties, would have been more than enough to secure a state title.
    This confuses me. If he didn't say that it was a provisional, then by rule that ball is in play. He played the ball that was in play. What was the infraction?




    He finished the hole with his "provisional" without taking penalty for the original, hence, signing for a wrong score. It was a long and heated argument that led to some disciplinary action against the kid and his coach.



    Edit to add; He demanded he had made a birdie on the hole after hitting two tee shots and finishing the hole with the second.
    Not taking a penalty for the original is a big detail to leave out. So no one would know that unless they saw his score on that hole or heard him say what he thought he scored on that hole. Did the opposing coach know this before the scorers table?
  • SixcatSixcat SWVAPosts: 1,416 ✭✭
    Noles wrote:

    Sixcat wrote:

    Noles wrote:

    Sixcat wrote:


    I witnessed a high school kid get DQ'd about 5 years ago for signing an incorrect scorecard after not declaring a provisional, playing a provisional and then choosing to play the provisional even after the original was found. It was the final round of the state tournament at my home club. The kids team finished second by a couple of shots. Whole team got punished by his mistake. In Virginia, 6 play for 4 scores. The 5th and 6th player on his team were both in the 100's. His score, even with penalties, would have been more than enough to secure a state title.
    This confuses me. If he didn't say that it was a provisional, then by rule that ball is in play. He played the ball that was in play. What was the infraction?




    He finished the hole with his "provisional" without taking penalty for the original, hence, signing for a wrong score. It was a long and heated argument that led to some disciplinary action against the kid and his coach.



    Edit to add; He demanded he had made a birdie on the hole after hitting two tee shots and finishing the hole with the second.
    Not taking a penalty for the original is a big detail to leave out. So no one would know that unless they saw his score on that hole or heard him say what he thought he scored on that hole. Did the opposing coach know this before the scorers table?




    To be fair, I did say in my original post the kid was "DQ'd for signing an incorrect scorecard." Given he is a kid and this garnered statewide media attention, I was trying to be somewhat discrete in not publicly tearing down a mistake by a 16 year old kid.



    This was the state tournament so, there were several teams in the match. Several opposing coaches were at the tee when the incident happened and most of the coaches in the field were present at the scorers table when the foursome arrived. The foursome consisted of a kid from four different schools. The three remaining players in the grouping refused to sign as this kid was insisting he had made birdie. It got ugly after that which is why I was attempting to be vague.



    One of the kids in the foursome was on the team who would eventually win the state championship. The DQ'd player and his coach accused that kid of cheating to get the other kid DQ'd so his team could win. That's not what happened and several in attendance defended the three remaining kids for having the courage to refuse to sign for a wrong score.



    What's funny, had the kid who got DQ'd and his coach just taken the stroke and distance penalty, he would have finished top 5 individually and his team would have won the state championship by more than 20 strokes.
  • raynorfan1raynorfan1 Members Posts: 3,519 ✭✭
    Sixcat wrote:

    Noles wrote:

    Sixcat wrote:

    Noles wrote:

    Sixcat wrote:


    I witnessed a high school kid get DQ'd about 5 years ago for signing an incorrect scorecard after not declaring a provisional, playing a provisional and then choosing to play the provisional even after the original was found. It was the final round of the state tournament at my home club. The kids team finished second by a couple of shots. Whole team got punished by his mistake. In Virginia, 6 play for 4 scores. The 5th and 6th player on his team were both in the 100's. His score, even with penalties, would have been more than enough to secure a state title.
    This confuses me. If he didn't say that it was a provisional, then by rule that ball is in play. He played the ball that was in play. What was the infraction?




    He finished the hole with his "provisional" without taking penalty for the original, hence, signing for a wrong score. It was a long and heated argument that led to some disciplinary action against the kid and his coach.



    Edit to add; He demanded he had made a birdie on the hole after hitting two tee shots and finishing the hole with the second.
    Not taking a penalty for the original is a big detail to leave out. So no one would know that unless they saw his score on that hole or heard him say what he thought he scored on that hole. Did the opposing coach know this before the scorers table?




    To be fair, I did say in my original post the kid was "DQ'd for signing an incorrect scorecard." Given he is a kid and this garnered statewide media attention, I was trying to be somewhat discrete in not publicly tearing down a mistake by a 16 year old kid.



    This was the state tournament so, there were several teams in the match. Several opposing coaches were at the tee when the incident happened and most of the coaches in the field were present at the scorers table when the foursome arrived. The foursome consisted of a kid from four different schools. The three remaining players in the grouping refused to sign as this kid was insisting he had made birdie. It got ugly after that which is why I was attempting to be vague.



    One of the kids in the foursome was on the team who would eventually win the state championship. The DQ'd player and his coach accused that kid of cheating to get the other kid DQ'd so his team could win. That's not what happened and several in attendance defended the three remaining kids for having the courage to refuse to sign for a wrong score.



    What's funny, had the kid who got DQ'd and his coach just taken the stroke and distance penalty, he would have finished top 5 individually and his team would have won the state championship by more than 20 strokes.




    It could have been more elegantly phrased if you had called the undeclared "provisional" a "mulligan"...
  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members Posts: 3,003 ✭✭
    leezer99 wrote:


    leezer99 wrote:


    Read it again... 'improving intended stance or swing'. Imagine there were a branch in my backswing that prevented me from going back more than halfway. If I broke that branch during a practice swing and could now take a full swing that would be considered improving intended swing.




    I understand that. I don't understand needles falling. It is common in a practice swing near a tree or solid structure to lie the club against a tree or even a branch to see how far back you can go without being obstructed. That is not a penalty. If a pine needle falls from the tree while doing so, that is also not a penalty. You can brush your club against the pine needles on the ground, move them, and would not be a penalty.






    It is a penalty if in a practice swing you knock off (break) a leaf or pine needle attached to the tree. Pine needles on the ground are movable and not attached to the tree. See USGA video:



    http://www.usga.org/...t--part-1-.html




    There are some stupid rules.



    Hypothetically, you could take a practice swing and needles fall without ever touching them.
  • iteachgolfiteachgolf Members Posts: 16,590 ✭✭
    edited Oct 5, 2018 #39

    leezer99 wrote:


    leezer99 wrote:


    Read it again... 'improving intended stance or swing'. Imagine there were a branch in my backswing that prevented me from going back more than halfway. If I broke that branch during a practice swing and could now take a full swing that would be considered improving intended swing.




    I understand that. I don't understand needles falling. It is common in a practice swing near a tree or solid structure to lie the club against a tree or even a branch to see how far back you can go without being obstructed. That is not a penalty. If a pine needle falls from the tree while doing so, that is also not a penalty. You can brush your club against the pine needles on the ground, move them, and would not be a penalty.






    It is a penalty if in a practice swing you knock off (break) a leaf or pine needle attached to the tree. Pine needles on the ground are movable and not attached to the tree. See USGA video:



    [url="http://www.usga.org/videos/2015/12/23/rules-of-golf-explained--play-the-course-as-you-find-it--part-1-.html"]http://www.usga.org/...t--part-1-.html[/url]




    There are some stupid rules.



    Hypothetically, you could take a practice swing and needles fall without ever touching them.




    It’s only a penalty if you caused them to move. If you didn’t touch them it’s no penalty



    It’s wjy I always tell kids if you hit a tree in backswing don’t stop, if you do it’s a penalty. If you keep going and hit the ball it’s no penalty
  • SixcatSixcat SWVAPosts: 1,416 ✭✭
    raynorfan1 wrote:


    It could have been more elegantly phrased if you had called the undeclared "provisional" a "mulligan"...




    I’ll be certain to seek your grammatical approval before posting in the future!
  • ChipwichChipwich Members Posts: 33 ✭✭


    Most of the time it is incorrect score card. If you aren't at tee boxes 10 minutes before your tee time kids are DQ'd. Using Slope on a Range finder.


    I HATE the 10 minute before your tee time rule. If you're tee time is 9:00 and you stroll up at 8:59 ready to go, you're fine. You made your tee time. If they want the kids there 10 minutes early, then make the tee time 10 minutes before you actually want em to tee off.
  • sui generissui generis Members Posts: 3,769 ✭✭
    benlenahan wrote:



    Was the coach made aware before the round was over is the question I have. I also believe we are talking about High School Golf. I think it is safe to say that most high school coaches do not know that the penalty was a DQ. I didn't know it and would have to look it up. High School coaches aren't even close to rules officials. I don't think it was dirty for that reason. It is just being unaware.




    I don't know as I was not the coach. I'd say HS coaches are pretty adequate on their rules knowledge, at least the few I've been around. Some are even sticklers about it. Just the other day in the state tournament, I was loged under a pine tree (yes, that's how the round went), and was informed by my playing partners coach that if I were to cause one needle to fall whilst testing my backswing he would call me for a penalty, before I even stepped up to my ball. Anything to gain a stroke or two I guess, even if it goes to lengths of ruining a kids tournament by some unknown rule.



    And no, I did not cause any needles to fall, and did not incure a penalty.




    Ben, that coach may have been misinformed. Take a look at this Decision:



    13-2/0.5 Meaning of "Improve" in Rule 13-2



    Q. Rule 13-2 prohibits a player from improving certain areas. What does "improve" mean?



    A.In the context of Rule 13-2, "improve" means to change for the better so that the player creates a potential advantage with respect to the position or lie of his ball, the area of his intended stance or swing, his line of play or a reasonable extension of that line beyond the hole, or the area in which he is to drop or place a ball. Therefore, merely changing an area protected by Rule 13-2 will not be a breach of Rule 13-2 unless it creates such a potential advantage for the player in his play.



    Examples of changes that are unlikely to create such a potential advantage are if a player:



    repairs a small pitch-mark, smoothes a footprint in a bunker or replaces a divot in a divot hole on his line of play five yards in front of his ball prior to making a 150-yard approach shot from through the green;



    whose ball lies in the middle of a long, shallow-faced fairway bunker, smoothes footprints five yards in front of his ball and on his line of play prior to playing a long shot over the smoothed area;



    accidentally knocks down several leaves from a tree in his area of intended swing with a practice swing, but there are still so many leaves or branches remaining that the area of intended swing has not been materially affected; or



    whose ball lies in thick rough 180 yards from the green, walks forward and pulls strands of grass on his line of play and tosses them in the air to determine the direction of the wind.



    Examples of changes that are likely to create such a potential advantage are if a player:



    repairs a pitch-mark through the green or replaces a divot in a divot hole five yards in front of his ball and on his line of play prior to making a stroke from off the putting green that might be affected by the pitch-mark or divot hole (e.g., a putt or a low-running shot);

    whose ball lies in a greenside bunker, smoothes footprints five yards in front of his ball on his line of play prior to playing a short shot intended to be played over the smoothed area;



    accidentally knocks down a single leaf from a tree in his area of intended swing with a practice swing, but, as this was one of very few leaves that might either interfere with his swing or fall and thereby distract him, the area of intended swing has been materially affected; or



    pulls strands of grass from rough a few inches behind his ball to test the wind, but thereby reduces a potential distraction for the player, or resistance to his club, in the area of his intended swing.



    The determination as to whether a player has created a potential advantage by his actions is made by reference to all the circumstances immediately prior to his stroke. (Revised)
    Knowledge of the Rules is part of the applied skill set which a player must use to play a round of competitive golf.
  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members Posts: 3,003 ✭✭
    Chipwich wrote:


    Most of the time it is incorrect score card. If you aren't at tee boxes 10 minutes before your tee time kids are DQ'd. Using Slope on a Range finder.


    I HATE the 10 minute before your tee time rule. If you're tee time is 9:00 and you stroll up at 8:59 ready to go, you're fine. You made your tee time. If they want the kids there 10 minutes early, then make the tee time 10 minutes before you actually want em to tee off.




    Ummmm.... I honestly don’t know where to begin. This is a rule at every tour other than US Kids and I wish it were a rule there as well. This helps keep tee times on time. It allows the starters appropriate time to go over important information. Exchange cards, mark balls, talk about hard card, pace of play.
  • ChipwichChipwich Members Posts: 33 ✭✭

    Chipwich wrote:


    Most of the time it is incorrect score card. If you aren't at tee boxes 10 minutes before your tee time kids are DQ'd. Using Slope on a Range finder.


    I HATE the 10 minute before your tee time rule. If you're tee time is 9:00 and you stroll up at 8:59 ready to go, you're fine. You made your tee time. If they want the kids there 10 minutes early, then make the tee time 10 minutes before you actually want em to tee off.




    Ummmm.... I honestly don’t know where to begin. This is a rule at every tour other than US Kids and I wish it were a rule there as well. This helps keep tee times on time. It allows the starters appropriate time to go over important information. Exchange cards, mark balls, talk about hard card, pace of play.




    That's fine. Then if you want me there at 9:00 to go over everything and we'll be balls in the air at 9:10, make the tee time 9:00. There is NO reason to make a tee time and then just for kicks say you have to be there 10 minutes early or you'll be disqualified. Just say the tee time is at 9:00, we'll be going over some things then. If you're not at the teeing area by 9:01, it's a disqualification and we'll get the balls in the air as soon as we finish with the details. Easy peasy.
  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members Posts: 3,003 ✭✭
    Chipwich wrote:

    Chipwich wrote:


    Most of the time it is incorrect score card. If you aren't at tee boxes 10 minutes before your tee time kids are DQ'd. Using Slope on a Range finder.


    I HATE the 10 minute before your tee time rule. If you're tee time is 9:00 and you stroll up at 8:59 ready to go, you're fine. You made your tee time. If they want the kids there 10 minutes early, then make the tee time 10 minutes before you actually want em to tee off.




    Ummmm.... I honestly don’t know where to begin. This is a rule at every tour other than US Kids and I wish it were a rule there as well. This helps keep tee times on time. It allows the starters appropriate time to go over important information. Exchange cards, mark balls, talk about hard card, pace of play.




    That's fine. Then if you want me there at 9:00 to go over everything and we'll be balls in the air at 9:10, make the tee time 9:00. There is NO reason to make a tee time and then just for kicks say you have to be there 10 minutes early or you'll be disqualified. Just say the tee time is at 9:00, we'll be going over some things then. If you're not at the teeing area by 9:01, it's a disqualification and we'll get the balls in the air as soon as we finish with the details. Easy peasy.




    Seriously.... that is stupid.
  • RohlioRohlio Members Posts: 2,309 ✭✭
    Chipwich wrote:


    Chipwich wrote:


    Most of the time it is incorrect score card. If you aren't at tee boxes 10 minutes before your tee time kids are DQ'd. Using Slope on a Range finder.


    I HATE the 10 minute before your tee time rule. If you're tee time is 9:00 and you stroll up at 8:59 ready to go, you're fine. You made your tee time. If they want the kids there 10 minutes early, then make the tee time 10 minutes before you actually want em to tee off.




    Ummmm.... I honestly don’t know where to begin. This is a rule at every tour other than US Kids and I wish it were a rule there as well. This helps keep tee times on time. It allows the starters appropriate time to go over important information. Exchange cards, mark balls, talk about hard card, pace of play.




    That's fine. Then if you want me there at 9:00 to go over everything and we'll be balls in the air at 9:10, make the tee time 9:00. There is NO reason to make a tee time and then just for kicks say you have to be there 10 minutes early or you'll be disqualified. Just say the tee time is at 9:00, we'll be going over some things then. If you're not at the teeing area by 9:01, it's a disqualification and we'll get the balls in the air as soon as we finish with the details. Easy peasy.




    So your problem is 100% semantics.



    You know if they say the tee time is 9:00 and balls don't fly til 9:10 people are going to b**** that the tee times never start on time.



    Is it really that hard to translate the combination of:



    1. Tee time is 9:00

    2 players must be at tee 10 minutes early to receive pre round instructions or face dq



    Into "I will arrive no later than 8:50"



    Seriously how is this a problem for anybody?
    WITB:
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  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members Posts: 3,003 ✭✭
    Chipwich wrote:


    Chipwich wrote:


    Most of the time it is incorrect score card. If you aren't at tee boxes 10 minutes before your tee time kids are DQ'd. Using Slope on a Range finder.


    I HATE the 10 minute before your tee time rule. If you're tee time is 9:00 and you stroll up at 8:59 ready to go, you're fine. You made your tee time. If they want the kids there 10 minutes early, then make the tee time 10 minutes before you actually want em to tee off.




    Ummmm.... I honestly don’t know where to begin. This is a rule at every tour other than US Kids and I wish it were a rule there as well. This helps keep tee times on time. It allows the starters appropriate time to go over important information. Exchange cards, mark balls, talk about hard card, pace of play.




    That's fine. Then if you want me there at 9:00 to go over everything and we'll be balls in the air at 9:10, make the tee time 9:00. There is NO reason to make a tee time and then just for kicks say you have to be there 10 minutes early or you'll be disqualified. Just say the tee time is at 9:00, we'll be going over some things then. If you're not at the teeing area by 9:01, it's a disqualification and we'll get the balls in the air as soon as we finish with the details. Easy peasy.




    If the tee time is 9:00 then they need to be there at 8:50. See how easy that is? 9:00 is when that group starts teeing off. 8:50 is when instructions begin. Pretty simple really.
  • SixcatSixcat SWVAPosts: 1,416 ✭✭
    leezer99 wrote:




    Kid can really play! I've seen him at a few VSGA and junior events. Sounds like his character is just as solid as his golf game.
  • jli2636jli2636 Posts: 1,035 ✭✭
    benlenahan wrote:


    At our State Championship, there was no DQ for incorrect scorecard. They actually encouraged signing a scorecard without totals and to let them do the math. You could even change after it was signed. Never seen that before.



    My teammate was DQ’d from an event earlier in the year because he thought his ball was lost, reteed, found the first one, played it, and got a DQ.



    At State, they cared about language, pace, and composure. The final paring, which contained the eventual champion and an OSU commit, got a warning for slow pace, Spieth style.


    Why didn’t he just declare the 2nd tee ball a provisional? Would have incurred no penalty.
  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members Posts: 3,003 ✭✭
    jli2636 wrote:
    benlenahan wrote:


    At our State Championship, there was no DQ for incorrect scorecard. They actually encouraged signing a scorecard without totals and to let them do the math. You could even change after it was signed. Never seen that before.



    My teammate was DQ’d from an event earlier in the year because he thought his ball was lost, reteed, found the first one, played it, and got a DQ.



    At State, they cared about language, pace, and composure. The final paring, which contained the eventual champion and an OSU commit, got a warning for slow pace, Spieth style.


    Why didn’t he just declare the 2nd tee ball a provisional? Would have incurred no penalty.




    I have seen it not declared. Some kids just assume.
  • Mr. HerbertMr. Herbert Posts: 817 ✭✭

    jli2636 wrote:
    benlenahan wrote:


    At our State Championship, there was no DQ for incorrect scorecard. They actually encouraged signing a scorecard without totals and to let them do the math. You could even change after it was signed. Never seen that before.



    My teammate was DQ’d from an event earlier in the year because he thought his ball was lost, reteed, found the first one, played it, and got a DQ.



    At State, they cared about language, pace, and composure. The final paring, which contained the eventual champion and an OSU commit, got a warning for slow pace, Spieth style.


    Why didn’t he just declare the 2nd tee ball a provisional? Would have incurred no penalty.




    I have seen it not declared. Some kids just assume.




    If the 5 minute search time expired, it wasn’t a provisional.
  • Shades234Shades234 Posts: 219 ✭✭
    How much do college coaches care about a kid posting a bad round vs taking the DQ/WD/NC? Wouldn't they like to see a kid bounce back from a bad performance? Or are kids not doing this because of recruiting?
  • sui generissui generis Members Posts: 3,769 ✭✭
    Shades234 wrote:


    How much do college coaches care about a kid posting a bad round vs taking the DQ/WD/NC? Wouldn't they like to see a kid bounce back from a bad performance? Or are kids not doing this because of recruiting?




    One view that I hear, on occasion, is that coaches care the most about the low rounds a prospect has had.
    Knowledge of the Rules is part of the applied skill set which a player must use to play a round of competitive golf.
  • tiger1873tiger1873 Members Posts: 1,011 ✭✭

    Shades234 wrote:


    How much do college coaches care about a kid posting a bad round vs taking the DQ/WD/NC? Wouldn't they like to see a kid bounce back from a bad performance? Or are kids not doing this because of recruiting?




    One view that I hear, on occasion, is that coaches care the most about the low rounds a prospect has had.




    First off are we talking about boys or girls. If it's boys a high score could really be an issue because it just so competitive.



    For girls it is going to depend on the Coach they all have different views on things and no two are alike. I think lower ranked D1 the more there willing to overlook higher scores in general. Some of those schools have a tough time finding qualified applicants and in reality are going to have to choose from a pool that has higher scores in general. If you going to a top ranked school they can pick and choose who they want and that should be obvious.
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