Ping iron - Green Dot, +1"

Quick question about the way that ping handles color code and length in their iron sets.

I currently have a stock set of ping i-210 irons (black dot, standard length). I hit a demo set today that was Green Dot, +1". I would like to match my set's specs to those.

Am I correct that all I should have to do is extend my set by one inch?

In other words, am I correct that the actual measured lie angle of a ping iron that is green dot +1" is the same as the standard black dot lie angle at standard length?

I. believe that is NOT correct. I believe Ping measures length and lie angle independent of each other. I am sure one of the Ping experts will chime in shortly.

My understanding (and experience with a ping set around 10 yrs ago) was that dot color corresponds to lie only, length is separate. So you can have a green dot set with standard length or + length. Often they go together as Ping's fitting chart show longer shafts and upright lies going together with many taller players, but from color alone I dont think you can assume the length.

I believe they started measuring them independently with either the release of the i200’s. Or 210’s. Prior the dot was relative to the length.

In the old days Ping color codes were effective lie angles, not definitive lie angles. For each 1/2" of extra length Ping used to flatten the lie angle by one color code (3/4 degree.) So a Green dot +1" set would actually have the lie angle of a Blue dot club that was standard length.. More recently though, like for the i210's, the lie angle is held constant. In other words, you have to bend your irons upright by 2 degrees to match the club you hit.

I believe they started measuring them independently with either the release of the i200’s. Prior the dot was relative to the length.

Sorry, but the dot color has always referred to lie angle.

Okay. ?you know that for a fact?

Yup

Not before 2017 it wasn’t. At least according to Ping.

What has changed?The length-lie dependency has been removed by changing color code bands to an “S-shape”.Each color code has a fixed lie angle irrespective of club length. This removes the need for converting color codes when using non-standard-length clubs with the AFS system.Color codes have moved to 1° increments to simplify lie-angle offerings.Yellow and Purple color codes have been removed.Updated length recommendations better align static recommendations with dynamic fitting results. Height columns are now scaled for easier use and overlaps are removed.75% of players will fit to a dynamic color code within one of the new static recommendation compared to 70% previously, while 95% will fit within two color codes compared to 90% on the previous color code system.It also removes the need to convert back when ordering clubs at over/under standard length after a fitting using our AFS system.Removing height overlaps and scaling eliminates ambiguity.How is it simpler?Removing the length-lie dependency eliminates the need to convert color codes when building AFS heads at over/under standard length.How is it more precise?By analyzing over 20,000 fittings from our nFlight database, combined with years of research, we have made data-driven changes to better align static and dynamic fittings, particularly with respect to players’ length recommendations.Plotting height and wrist-to-floor measurements for a static recommendation is more intuitive.

I think you're misunderstanding what you've read.

The dot color was never used to address length of club alone.

My question is why go with an extra inch in the first place? Of all the fittings I have done, I have yet to go +1'' and I have fit guys 6'5'' tall!? As stated above, most fit with in 2* up or down from black dot. OP, maybe you need to go see a fitter to confirm your needs with your Ping irons?!

No, quite the contrary. It’s a combo of the two. So if you’re standard length and green dot the clubs are bent 2 upright. If you increase the length by 1/2 an inch the the head would be 1 degree flatter. Or 1 degree upright from standard. This is how Ping did it from the beginning until 2017, which is when they started just basing the the color on lie only.

But you said, "the dot was relative to the length." ... And that's not true.

Hey RP40 - this is a golf forum, people come here to learn a little and share a little, all in a spirit of respect and fun. The 'gotcha' posts just aren't helpful.

i feel like I’m beating my head against a wall here. The color dot prior to 2017 was a combo of length and lie. Now it’s just the lie.

Whether I wasn’t clear, or you misconstrued what I wrote or whether you are being obtuse...this is a fact.

I remember not “getting” this whole Ping length/lie thing years ago, and I apparently still don’t really get it. So I picked up a used set of i5 irons recently, Green Dot (which was 2.25* upright at the time). Turns out, they were built + .5 inch long. So if I cut them down .5 inch to standard length, what would my lie angle be? Thanks.

Your clubs would be yellow dot or 1.5 degrees upright, assuming these clubs were an original factory built to + 0.5 inch long. 5 iron length should be 38 1/4 ".

i5's with a Green dot and + 1/2" have a lie angle that's same as Yellow at standard length (1.5 degrees upright). If you cut them down they will still be 1.5 degrees upright but if Ping built them that way they would be Yellow.

One problem with the old system was using the fitting cart or demo day clubs and then being sure to do what you had listed in a previous post when placing the order."It also removes the need to convert back when ordering clubs at over/under standard length after a fitting using our AFS system."

During demo days and using the fitting carts, you are just attaching shafts to heads. So if you installed a 1/2" over shaft into a green dot head and this was successful combo for the golfer in the dynamic fitting, you would then have to order white dot at 1/2" over from factory to match that exact club as demoed.

If you just ordered green dot at 1/2" over, it would be then assembled at Ping at 3/4 degree flatter than the demo club the golfer hit successfully. It could get a bit confusing and I am sure many well meaning, yet inexperienced tech reps and sales people placed a lot of incorrect orders on over length or under length club fitting when using AFS clubs.

You were very clear, and it's hard to misconstrue THE FACT that YOU SAID, "the dot was relative to the length."

Here's PING's "old" color chart.

I don’t understand what the issue is here. The dot WAS indeed relative to the length. Meaning a specific lie angle, say 62* could be several different color codes depending on (relative to) the length.

what’s your story?

It's quite clear and you are correct.

I'm with RP40 on this one. My orange dot PW will stay at 62 degrees in regards to hosel to sole no matter if there is 35.5 inch shaft or 39 inch shaft. I would just have to make extraordinary changes to my swing or, get an extraordinary unheard of middle aged growth spurt in order to deliver the club to the ball squarely with the 39 inch shaft.

oK. But if you’ve been following the conversation, up until a couple of years ago if you’d have sent the club in to get a longer shaft put in it, they’d have changed the color code.

of course the lie angle wouldn’t change. But the color code would change because the effective lie angle would definitely change.

Thanks Ness. Makes sense now. This set was in Ping’s system as + 1/2”, with the CS Lite stiff shafts. I took them out just for fun a couple of weeks ago, and despite the extra length, the i5’s are really a classic set of irons. Project for another day as a set to play for fun now and then. If I cut them down, yellow dot kind of works for me (I am generally blue dot but can do a bit more upright).

The conversation up to now was that a poster said that the color code was only relative to length, and I tried to correct him by saying the color code was for lie angle.

I never said that as lie angle changes the length of club doesn't change, but what I've tried to point out is that PING's color code chart IS rather specific about lie angle, including posting a copy of their color code guide circa 2008 (since we were talking about an older set). And if you've looked at PING's current color code fitting guide, you can be 1/2" under to 1/2" over and still fit in the same color code lie angle.

You wrote........"I tried to correct him by saying the color code was for lie angle."

As many other posters have mentioned. You are incorrect. In the old system.........the color code represents the "effective lie angle". Not the "lie angle".

If I placed an order for S56's in green dot at + 1" over, the set would be built with blue dot heads. A blue dot head at + 1" had an effective lie angle of roughly 2.25 degrees upright (green color code) according to the Ping fitting system. The head would be painted green after assembly at 1" over even though it was originally a blue dot head.

Also you should of posted the complete Ping fitting chart (prior to 2017) instead, which clearly shows that the color code system represents effective lie angle, which is a combination of lie and length.

At this point.......you either get it or you don't. Not interested in your contrary response, as I was a Ping Rep for 4 years and have fit thousands of clubs including many days working with the Ping Tour van.

That’s not what I meant by my post. You are just wrong and being stubborn. You lost the arguement. GTF over it.

So just so I’m clear, under the new system, the dot color is actual lie angle of the head relative to standard lie, regardless of the shaft length, correct? And shortening or lengthening the shaft would not change the dot color?