does the usga miss the mark compared to the r&a regarding golf course selection for the open(s)

[Shilgy]

The USGA should only hold their events on PUBLIC courses ! How can a governing body, with a mandate to "Grow the Game", even consider playing at an exclusionary golf course.

 

Members at Private clubs have decided to be private, that is their prerogative, therefore they should get no benefits involved with hosting an open, nor publicity also.

 

Top 100 lists should be only on PUBLIC courses also.

I would say most privates are certainly not exclusionary. If you want to join just pony up the dough you are in. Same as a public course, pay your daily fee and they let you in. I do not know of any course that you play for free so all are exclusionary to a point.

[raynorfan1]

The USGA should only hold their events on PUBLIC courses ! How can a governing body, with a mandate to "Grow the Game", even consider playing at an exclusionary golf course.

 

Members at Private clubs have decided to be private, that is their prerogative, therefore they should get no benefits involved with hosting an open, nor publicity also.

 

Top 100 lists should be only on PUBLIC courses also.

I would say most privates are certainly not exclusionary. If you want to join just pony up the dough you are in. Same as a public course, pay your daily fee and they let you in. I do not know of any course that you play for free so all are exclusionary to a point.

 

I think it's fair to say that all of the clubs that might host the US Open have slightly more rigorous admissions processes than "just write a check".

[Shilgy]

The USGA should only hold their events on PUBLIC courses ! How can a governing body, with a mandate to "Grow the Game", even consider playing at an exclusionary golf course.

 

Members at Private clubs have decided to be private, that is their prerogative, therefore they should get no benefits involved with hosting an open, nor publicity also.

 

Top 100 lists should be only on PUBLIC courses also.

I would say most privates are certainly not exclusionary. If you want to join just pony up the dough you are in. Same as a public course, pay your daily fee and they let you in. I do not know of any course that you play for free so all are exclusionary to a point.

 

I think it's fair to say that all of the clubs that might host the US Open have slightly more rigorous admissions processes than "just write a check".

No question-but the post I replied to was regarding a "grow the game logic" To the point of only listing public courses on top 100 lists. Talk about exclusionary! :) I think the USGA has it right lately. A good mix of public access and private. Part of the problem is that there are not really all that many public courses that are capable of hosting the event. They are either not of a sufficient caliber to test the best players in the world and/or cannot handle the crowds and infrastructure necessary to host the event. Which is partially what leads to messes like last year at Chambers Bay.

I would consider Pebble as more exclusionary than most privates. I consider my club membership to be a good value. Paying $500+ for a round of golf not so much.

[raynorfan1]

The USGA should only hold their events on PUBLIC courses ! How can a governing body, with a mandate to "Grow the Game", even consider playing at an exclusionary golf course.

 

Members at Private clubs have decided to be private, that is their prerogative, therefore they should get no benefits involved with hosting an open, nor publicity also.

 

Top 100 lists should be only on PUBLIC courses also.

I would say most privates are certainly not exclusionary. If you want to join just pony up the dough you are in. Same as a public course, pay your daily fee and they let you in. I do not know of any course that you play for free so all are exclusionary to a point.

 

I think it's fair to say that all of the clubs that might host the US Open have slightly more rigorous admissions processes than "just write a check".

No question-but the post I replied to was regarding a "grow the game logic" To the point of only listing public courses on top 100 lists. Talk about exclusionary! :) I think the USGA has it right lately. A good mix of public access and private. Part of the problem is that there are not really all that many public courses that are capable of hosting the event. They are either not of a sufficient caliber to test the best players in the world and/or cannot handle the crowds and infrastructure necessary to host the event. Which is partially what leads to messes like last year at Chambers Bay.

I would consider Pebble as more exclusionary than most privates. I consider my club membership to be a good value. Paying $500+ for a round of golf not so much.

 

I'm probably in the minority, but I think that the USGA has gone a bit far down the "public" route. Pinehurst and Pebble are on the once every 6 or 7 years program. I'd rather see gaps more like 15 years between hosting.

[Shilgy]

The USGA should only hold their events on PUBLIC courses ! How can a governing body, with a mandate to "Grow the Game", even consider playing at an exclusionary golf course.

 

Members at Private clubs have decided to be private, that is their prerogative, therefore they should get no benefits involved with hosting an open, nor publicity also.

 

Top 100 lists should be only on PUBLIC courses also.

I would say most privates are certainly not exclusionary. If you want to join just pony up the dough you are in. Same as a public course, pay your daily fee and they let you in. I do not know of any course that you play for free so all are exclusionary to a point.

 

I think it's fair to say that all of the clubs that might host the US Open have slightly more rigorous admissions processes than "just write a check".

No question-but the post I replied to was regarding a "grow the game logic" To the point of only listing public courses on top 100 lists. Talk about exclusionary! :) I think the USGA has it right lately. A good mix of public access and private. Part of the problem is that there are not really all that many public courses that are capable of hosting the event. They are either not of a sufficient caliber to test the best players in the world and/or cannot handle the crowds and infrastructure necessary to host the event. Which is partially what leads to messes like last year at Chambers Bay.

I would consider Pebble as more exclusionary than most privates. I consider my club membership to be a good value. Paying $500+ for a round of golf not so much.

 

I'm probably in the minority, but I think that the USGA has gone a bit far down the "public" route. Pinehurst and Pebble are on the once every 6 or 7 years program. I'd rather see gaps more like 15 years between hosting.

There is not a US course, in my opinion, that deserves more often than that. There are many more deserving courses that can test the players AND handle the infrastructure needed to host an open championship in the States them in the UK. Thus their rota is smaller.

[Roadking2003]

I hear you but Bethpage doesn't need that increased interest because there are no lulls in play on any course. Yes if it's raining or the threat or if it's very hot and humid, you'll find an opening here and there plus there are walk-ins always waiting to get on. The Black is a championship course, The Red almost to that level, The Blue was the signature course at Bethpage before The Black was updated and received most of the money, The Green and The Yellow are both not bad. All of the them are in nice shape for public courses and that's why they are always busy.

 

Interesting question though (and I don't know the answer to it) is whether Bethpage was in the same situation pre-2002, or did the renovation of the Black and US Open generate interest that lifted the fortunes of all of the courses?

 

The USGA spent millions on Bethpage. And if you have millions to spend, there are lots of other courses that could host an open.

[Shilgy]

I hear you but Bethpage doesn't need that increased interest because there are no lulls in play on any course. Yes if it's raining or the threat or if it's very hot and humid, you'll find an opening here and there plus there are walk-ins always waiting to get on. The Black is a championship course, The Red almost to that level, The Blue was the signature course at Bethpage before The Black was updated and received most of the money, The Green and The Yellow are both not bad. All of the them are in nice shape for public courses and that's why they are always busy.

 

Interesting question though (and I don't know the answer to it) is whether Bethpage was in the same situation pre-2002, or did the renovation of the Black and US Open generate interest that lifted the fortunes of all of the courses?

 

The USGA spent millions on Bethpage. And if you have millions to spend, there are lots of other courses that could host an open.

Ya think? Can you name a few because to me that was a fairly unique situation? Others that may qualify would not be large enough or long enough. I can't think of any lost gems where I have lived.

[raynorfan1]

I hear you but Bethpage doesn't need that increased interest because there are no lulls in play on any course. Yes if it's raining or the threat or if it's very hot and humid, you'll find an opening here and there plus there are walk-ins always waiting to get on. The Black is a championship course, The Red almost to that level, The Blue was the signature course at Bethpage before The Black was updated and received most of the money, The Green and The Yellow are both not bad. All of the them are in nice shape for public courses and that's why they are always busy.

 

Interesting question though (and I don't know the answer to it) is whether Bethpage was in the same situation pre-2002, or did the renovation of the Black and US Open generate interest that lifted the fortunes of all of the courses?

 

The USGA spent millions on Bethpage. And if you have millions to spend, there are lots of other courses that could host an open.

Ya think? Can you name a few because to me that was a fairly unique situation? Others that may qualify would not be large enough or long enough. I can't think of any lost gems where I have lived.

 

Ponkapoag, near Boston, has often been brought up as a candidate. Donald Ross course with 36 holes on site (so plenty of room both to lengthen the course and host spectators / hospitality). OTOH, built on swampy ground and in disasterous condition - I'm not sure what state Bethpage black was in pre-USGA millions, but I'm sure it was better than Ponky. Brian Silva is currently doing a restoration, but it will take a lot to get it just to playable conditions.

[chas521]

 

 

 

Interesting question though (and I don't know the answer to it) is whether Bethpage was in the same situation pre-2002, or did the renovation of the Black and US Open generate interest that lifted the fortunes of all of the courses?

 

The USGA spent millions on Bethpage. And if you have millions to spend, there are lots of other courses that could host an open.

Ya think? Can you name a few because to me that was a fairly unique situation? Others that may qualify would not be large enough or long enough. I can't think of any lost gems where I have lived.

 

I think it was about 2.5 million. Could be wrong but I think I'm close. The Black was never in terrible condition but it did need doctoring in some areas to bring it up to Championship level.

[Shilgy]

I hear you but Bethpage doesn't need that increased interest because there are no lulls in play on any course. Yes if it's raining or the threat or if it's very hot and humid, you'll find an opening here and there plus there are walk-ins always waiting to get on. The Black is a championship course, The Red almost to that level, The Blue was the signature course at Bethpage before The Black was updated and received most of the money, The Green and The Yellow are both not bad. All of the them are in nice shape for public courses and that's why they are always busy.

 

Interesting question though (and I don't know the answer to it) is whether Bethpage was in the same situation pre-2002, or did the renovation of the Black and US Open generate interest that lifted the fortunes of all of the courses?

 

The USGA spent millions on Bethpage. And if you have millions to spend, there are lots of other courses that could host an open.

Ya think? Can you name a few because to me that was a fairly unique situation? Others that may qualify would not be large enough or long enough. I can't think of any lost gems where I have lived.

 

Ponkapoag, near Boston, has often been brought up as a candidate. Donald Ross course with 36 holes on site (so plenty of room both to lengthen the course and host spectators / hospitality). OTOH, built on swampy ground and in disasterous condition - I'm not sure what state Bethpage black was in pre-USGA millions, but I'm sure it was better than Ponky. Brian Silva is currently doing a restoration, but it will take a lot to get it just to playable conditions.

But Ponkapoag is/was under 6200 yards. Likely not room to get an extra thousand yards and maintain integrity of the design.

[Roadking2003]

I hear you but Bethpage doesn't need that increased interest because there are no lulls in play on any course. Yes if it's raining or the threat or if it's very hot and humid, you'll find an opening here and there plus there are walk-ins always waiting to get on. The Black is a championship course, The Red almost to that level, The Blue was the signature course at Bethpage before The Black was updated and received most of the money, The Green and The Yellow are both not bad. All of the them are in nice shape for public courses and that's why they are always busy.

 

Interesting question though (and I don't know the answer to it) is whether Bethpage was in the same situation pre-2002, or did the renovation of the Black and US Open generate interest that lifted the fortunes of all of the courses?

 

The USGA spent millions on Bethpage. And if you have millions to spend, there are lots of other courses that could host an open.

Ya think? Can you name a few because to me that was a fairly unique situation? Others that may qualify would not be large enough or long enough. I can't think of any lost gems where I have lived.

 

Here is a start. I'm sure there are many, many more.

 

Ross Bridge

Spyglass Hill

PGA West - Nicklaus

Shoal Creek

Flint Hills National Golf Club

Kiawah Ocean Course

Barton Creek - Canyons

Redstone

Stonebridge Ranch - Dye

Valhalla

Whistling Straights

[Roadking2003]

Interesting question though (and I don't know the answer to it) is whether Bethpage was in the same situation pre-2002, or did the renovation of the Black and US Open generate interest that lifted the fortunes of all of the courses?

 

The USGA spent millions on Bethpage. And if you have millions to spend, there are lots of other courses that could host an open.

Ya think? Can you name a few because to me that was a fairly unique situation? Others that may qualify would not be large enough or long enough. I can't think of any lost gems where I have lived.

 

I think it was about 2.5 million. Could be wrong but I think I'm close. The Black was never in terrible condition but it did need doctoring in some areas to bring it up to Championship level.

 

$3.5 million before the 2002 Open, so 15 years ago. Today's dollars would be double that.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/06/15/nyregion/a-year-later-a-new-normal-at-bethpage.html

[raynorfan1]

Ponkapoag, near Boston, has often been brought up as a candidate. Donald Ross course with 36 holes on site (so plenty of room both to lengthen the course and host spectators / hospitality). OTOH, built on swampy ground and in disasterous condition - I'm not sure what state Bethpage black was in pre-USGA millions, but I'm sure it was better than Ponky. Brian Silva is currently doing a restoration, but it will take a lot to get it just to playable conditions.

But Ponkapoag is/was under 6200 yards. Likely not room to get an extra thousand yards and maintain integrity of the design.

 

6550 from the blues. The Country Club is only ~6800 from the championship tees post-renovation.

 

I haven't played Ponky in years, but I've got to believe they can squeeze 250 yards out of it.

[golfandfishing]

I hear you but Bethpage doesn't need that increased interest because there are no lulls in play on any course. Yes if it's raining or the threat or if it's very hot and humid, you'll find an opening here and there plus there are walk-ins always waiting to get on. The Black is a championship course, The Red almost to that level, The Blue was the signature course at Bethpage before The Black was updated and received most of the money, The Green and The Yellow are both not bad. All of the them are in nice shape for public courses and that's why they are always busy.

 

Interesting question though (and I don't know the answer to it) is whether Bethpage was in the same situation pre-2002, or did the renovation of the Black and US Open generate interest that lifted the fortunes of all of the courses?

 

The USGA spent millions on Bethpage. And if you have millions to spend, there are lots of other courses that could host an open.

Ya think? Can you name a few because to me that was a fairly unique situation? Others that may qualify would not be large enough or long enough. I can't think of any lost gems where I have lived.

 

Here is a start. I'm sure there are many, many more.

 

Ross Bridge

Spyglass Hill

PGA West - Nicklaus

Shoal Creek

Flint Hills National Golf Club

Kiawah Ocean Course

Barton Creek - Canyons

Redstone

Stonebridge Ranch - Dye

Valhalla

Whistling Straights

 

PGA West as a US Open venue? Again, dead people will result. They will need a morgue next to the merch tent.

[Shilgy]

Isn't Valhalla owned by the PGA of America? Don't think you'll ever see an USGA event there. And it hardly needs renovation which we are discussing as in Bethpage.

[Shilgy]

Ponkapoag, near Boston, has often been brought up as a candidate. Donald Ross course with 36 holes on site (so plenty of room both to lengthen the course and host spectators / hospitality). OTOH, built on swampy ground and in disasterous condition - I'm not sure what state Bethpage black was in pre-USGA millions, but I'm sure it was better than Ponky. Brian Silva is currently doing a restoration, but it will take a lot to get it just to playable conditions.

But Ponkapoag is/was under 6200 yards. Likely not room to get an extra thousand yards and maintain integrity of the design.

 

6550 from the blues. The Country Club is only ~6800 from the championship tees post-renovation.

 

I haven't played Ponky in years, but I've got to believe they can squeeze 250 yards out of it.

You're right 6500. Info I found at first was for course #2. But considering they just spent over $2m to get it to the original design I highly doubt they would spoil it with longer tees. As it stands it is rated at 71.5. Not a test for the best in the world and another 300 yards would not change much. Imo.

[golfortennis]

The USGA should only hold their events on PUBLIC courses ! How can a governing body, with a mandate to "Grow the Game", even consider playing at an exclusionary golf course.

 

Members at Private clubs have decided to be private, that is their prerogative, therefore they should get no benefits involved with hosting an open, nor publicity also.

 

Top 100 lists should be only on PUBLIC courses also.

I would say most privates are certainly not exclusionary. If you want to join just pony up the dough you are in. Same as a public course, pay your daily fee and they let you in. I do not know of any course that you play for free so all are exclusionary to a point.

 

I think it's fair to say that all of the clubs that might host the US Open have slightly more rigorous admissions processes than "just write a check".

No question-but the post I replied to was regarding a "grow the game logic" To the point of only listing public courses on top 100 lists. Talk about exclusionary! :) I think the USGA has it right lately. A good mix of public access and private. Part of the problem is that there are not really all that many public courses that are capable of hosting the event. They are either not of a sufficient caliber to test the best players in the world and/or cannot handle the crowds and infrastructure necessary to host the event. Which is partially what leads to messes like last year at Chambers Bay.

I would consider Pebble as more exclusionary than most privates. I consider my club membership to be a good value. Paying $500+ for a round of golf not so much.

 

This is something that gets overlooked quite quickly. Sure, there may be a need for some blue in the blood to join some of these private places, but these "public" courses are certainly in the "you need to pony up to play" category as well. How many people can play Pebble Beach or Pinehurst more than once? Just because you *can* play it *once*, doesn't really make it much more accessible than most private clubs.

 

This is the golf version of the bastardization of "inclusiveness" that is affecting every other area of current events. As long as the optic is there, then the rest are just piddly little details that are best ignored since they may actually contradict the point that is trying to be achieved.

[chas521]

IMO, I think that the pro caddies must be in better physical shape than the playing pros. For anyone who has played The Black, you'll know what I mean. Just walking up the 15th is like walking up the side of a building. Carrying those heavy bags on a hot, humid day cant be fun. I want their autograph LOL.

[markheardjr]

PGA West as a US Open venue? Again, dead people will result. They will need a morgue next to the merch tent.

 

Again, would only work for a PGA Championship if you would move it to, say, October. Stretch out the Major season. Too bunched up with June/July/August having 3 of the 4.

[knock it close]

Interesting question though (and I don't know the answer to it) is whether Bethpage was in the same situation pre-2002, or did the renovation of the Black and US Open generate interest that lifted the fortunes of all of the courses?

 

The USGA spent millions on Bethpage. And if you have millions to spend, there are lots of other courses that could host an open.

Ya think? Can you name a few because to me that was a fairly unique situation? Others that may qualify would not be large enough or long enough. I can't think of any lost gems where I have lived.

 

I think it was about 2.5 million. Could be wrong but I think I'm close. The Black was never in terrible condition but it did need doctoring in some areas to bring it up to Championship level.

 

$3.5 million before the 2002 Open, so 15 years ago. Today's dollars would be double that.

 

http://www.nytimes.c...t-bethpage.html

Double?? Not quite sure that's how inflation works...

[Roadking2003]

Double?? Not quite sure that's how inflation works...

 

$3.5 million in 2000 is equal to

$4,899,146.34

today.

 

 

http://data.bls.gov/...1990&year2=2016

[Shilgy]

Double?? Not quite sure that's how inflation works...

 

$3.5 million in 2000 is equal to

$4,899,146.34

today.

 

 

http://data.bls.gov/...1990&year2=2016

Agree, but not all things inflate equally. Course reconstruction could be doubled, or could be static. I have no idea, just throwing that out there.

[Shipwreck]

I'd like to see the U.S. Open played on a desert course. There are plenty of really good options in Palm Springs / Scottsdale area. The argument I guess is that it is just too hot in that time of year but you can find some elevated courses that stay moderately cool. Maybe a PGA Championship then? Maybe move the PGA to Oct/Nov and spread out the majors a bit more?

 

I guess that is the same argument for Florida in the summer, but I think Streamsong is overrated anyways, since someone pointed it out earlier.

 

And potentially add a 5th hosted in AustralAsia land. We don't need The Players to be a major. Augusta already has the American SE locked up, if we're adding one move it somewhere else. US Open and the PGA are really the only tournaments that can showcase difference courses across a vast region. If you want a major at Sawgrass then make the PGA/US go there one year.

 

British Opens (No, not "THE" Open) are all held on rotation on golf courses that don't really offer any variety IMO. I appreciate the history and the birthplace of golf. But you get what you get with British links. They have their rotation down and thats that.

 

Would also like to see them play a U.S. Open in Hawaii maybe. Something like Ko Olau or another good test that isn't already a tour stop. Bandon Dunes should get a major. Or go to Pumpkin Ridge if you want. Pacific NW needs a redo after the travesty at Chambers Bay. Really surprised to see L.A. CC hosting one. Riviera aught to get a major back in the next few years.

 

Being from Tucson, I'd love to see a desert course played as a major BUT the problem is with the desert comes the desert animals and habitats. A lot of courses tell people not to go looking for balls or hitting out of those areas, so I can only imagine the foot traffic that would occur, and pretty much destroy the natural habitat that is out there in the desert. The Match Play Championship out here at Dove Mountain was an absolute joke for spectators, with some loooooong walks between holes and tons of cactus and other crap that wants to kill you.