Scotty Cameron 009 vs. Scratch 726 Putter

[putterho009]

[quote name='Pure745' timestamp='1391965521' post='8629367']
[quote name='jlevitt9' timestamp='1391926558' post='8627779']
[quote name='TooMuchAwesome' timestamp='1391906869' post='8626075']
This thread cracks me up. [b]They are all basically variations of the original design from Karsten Solheim, which is not copyright protected in any way, shape, or form to the best of my knowledge.[/b] ....Let's just enjoy each company's interpretation and appreciate the craftsmanship that goes into these pieces!
[/quote]

Your insight is too logical for the vast majority of WRX'ers.

Yes, Cameron says he is inspired by things when perhaps realistically he's just rehashing an old design. Let it go.
[/quote]

Too logical for WRX'ers.. did you read the thread on TCC?
[/quote]

Id die to read it. ? Couldn't find it.. any link?

[ws6]

It would be nice if James was still on his own. IIRC, his putters were $400 to start before he merged with Scratch.

[Snufles]

[quote name='ws6' timestamp='1391969781' post='8629809']
It would be nice if James was still on his own. IIRC, his putters were $400 to start before he merged with Scratch.
[/quote]

They were still pretty steep even then. Scratch helped him spread his name around over here.

[spring70]

[quote name='brockstar23' timestamp='1391306763' post='8581170']
[quote name='Jamboy72' timestamp='1391306296' post='8581136']
[quote name='PlayMore' timestamp='1391302953' post='8580836']
[quote name='nochrome' timestamp='1391302508' post='8580796']
Think a lot of Ari and Scratch, as a one off proto for a customer I don't think this is a problem, making a documented "inspired by" another company's design readily available just doesn't fit with originality/integrity I expect from them.
[/quote]

Whole new take on R&D by Scratch 2014 - Replicate and Distribute.
[/quote]

Or what Scotty Cameron calls "business as usual. "
[/quote]
I think that the Futura is pretty unique.

What worries me, is if Scratch is coming up with new lines of wedges or coping others that are out there? Will they always be two steps behind?
[/quote]

copying wedges certainly worked for Vokey

[spring70]

[quote name='finalist' timestamp='1391820316' post='8619692']
[quote name='Medson' timestamp='1391815323' post='8619234']
Didn't Butler family want out for a while?
[/quote]

Blood in, Blood out, cuz. Either they don't know...don't show...or don't care about what's going on in the hood.

[attachment=2057742:boyz.jpg]

[size=2][i]Thank you for being LoYaL.[/i][/size]
[/quote]

I say that quote at least 1x/week LOL

[Titleistman1010]

For those who want to see what TCC thinks, here you go
http://www.cameroncollector.com/forum/index.php/topic,217042.0.html

[tangojay]

[quote name='Titleistman1010' timestamp='1391989098' post='8631967']
For those who want to see what TCC thinks, here you go
http://www.cameroncollector.com/forum/index.php/topic,217042.0.html
[/quote]

Byron's DH-89 came out and had a win BEFORE the 009, it was known as John Byron DH-89 and of course the DH--89 is a version of the PING Anser

I was sent this quote by a TCC member "pondy" (since I am no longer a member I could not read it) really? Has it gone this far?

"For all I know, maybe 30 years ago, Scotty called Karsten and asked if he could model off a Ping, and Karsten said yes. For sure Scotty didn't sell his for less than Ping. But you can be damn sure that Ari didn't call Scotty to ask if it was OK to clone his putter and then undercut him."

30 years ago Cameron was learning the craft from Tad Moore and Byron Morgan,,,, so that blows that theory apart,,,,,

[tangojay]

Should have waited, just got this one, pretty much sums it up there and here IMHO :


Quote from: * *** on 02 Feb, 2014 11:49
Nike, assuming they know Byron has a 006model number, probably knows that Byron wouldn;'t have the money to go after a company like Nike.

*
Another difference in that argument is nike has all their putter models named in that format .. By using 007 will James Bond go after Nike ?
The history of the putter model from my reading
Ping Scottsdale anser
Byron morgan dh89 (anser replica)
Scotty Cameron 009(byron or anser replica?)
Nike 006 (Scotty 009 replica)
Scratch 726(009 replica )
So yes byron does have worthy value in this argument because it was made before Scotty made the 009 so is the Scotty an exact copy of the dh89 or is the dh89 a copy of the anser and the 009 is an anser copy as well.
Not trying to ruffle feathers here but I see no issue what's so ever with the scratch putter .

[jmac13]

Wasn't Byron's first milled version the DH-11 or X-11 model? And made around 1999? Scottys first 009 came around 2005 I think.

[rymail00]

[quote name='Titleistman1010' timestamp='1391989098' post='8631967']
For those who want to see what TCC thinks, here you go
[url="http://www.cameroncollector.com/forum/index.php/topic,217042.0.html"]http://www.cameronco...c,217042.0.html[/url]
[/quote]

wow.....those guys are intense.

[finalist]

Dh-11 which is the JohnByron version of the Byron Design DH-89 had a tour win before the 009. Both were CNC milled in the same SoCal factory. The Dh-11 was milled first. Soft hands came second. In those days Byron had retail lines, so tour play was important. Now that he just does custom putters tour play is useless.

[Zach Heusser]

[quote name='Pure745' timestamp='1391965521' post='8629367']
[quote name='jlevitt9' timestamp='1391926558' post='8627779']
[quote name='TooMuchAwesome' timestamp='1391906869' post='8626075']
This thread cracks me up. [b]They are all basically variations of the original design from Karsten Solheim, which is not copyright protected in any way, shape, or form to the best of my knowledge.[/b] ....Let's just enjoy each company's interpretation and appreciate the craftsmanship that goes into these pieces!
[/quote]

Your insight is too logical for the vast majority of WRX'ers.

Yes, Cameron says he is inspired by things when perhaps realistically he's just rehashing an old design. Let it go.
[/quote]

Too logical for WRX'ers.. did you read the thread on TCC?
[/quote]
Man! That Pondy is hardcore....

[finalist]

[quote name='Titleistman1010' timestamp='1391989098' post='8631967']
For those who want to see what TCC thinks, here you go
http://www.cameroncollector.com/forum/index.php/topic,217042.0.html
[/quote]

I'm banned twenty times over. What's pondy saying now?

I bet scotty makes a video and thanks all for their loyalty.

[scratchswinger]

[quote name='Zach Heusser' timestamp='1392006818' post='8634265']
[quote name='Pure745' timestamp='1391965521' post='8629367']
[quote name='jlevitt9' timestamp='1391926558' post='8627779']
[quote name='TooMuchAwesome' timestamp='1391906869' post='8626075']
This thread cracks me up. [b]They are all basically variations of the original design from Karsten Solheim, which is not copyright protected in any way, shape, or form to the best of my knowledge.[/b] ....Let's just enjoy each company's interpretation and appreciate the craftsmanship that goes into these pieces!
[/quote]

Your insight is too logical for the vast majority of WRX'ers.

Yes, Cameron says he is inspired by things when perhaps realistically he's just rehashing an old design. Let it go.
[/quote]

Too logical for WRX'ers.. did you read the thread on TCC?
[/quote]
Man! That Pondy is hardcore....
[/quote]

He's just very passionate about his putters.

[scratchswinger]

[quote name='finalist' timestamp='1392011342' post='8634695']
[quote name='Titleistman1010' timestamp='1391989098' post='8631967']
For those who want to see what TCC thinks, here you go
http://www.cameroncollector.com/forum/index.php/topic,217042.0.html
[/quote]

I'm banned twenty times over. What's pondy saying now?

I bet scotty makes a video and thanks all for their loyalty.
[/quote]

He reported this thread to Titleist so they can take legal action.

[stage1350]

[quote name='scratchswinger' timestamp='1392013237' post='8634801']
[quote name='finalist' timestamp='1392011342' post='8634695']
[quote name='Titleistman1010' timestamp='1391989098' post='8631967']
For those who want to see what TCC thinks, here you go
[url="http://www.cameroncollector.com/forum/index.php/topic,217042.0.html"]http://www.cameronco...c,217042.0.html[/url]
[/quote]

I'm banned twenty times over. What's pondy saying now?

I bet scotty makes a video and thanks all for their loyalty.
[/quote]

He reported this thread to Titleist so they can take legal action.
[/quote]

What legal action are they going to take?

I'm sure Scratch is skeered...

[scratchswinger]

[quote name='stage1350' timestamp='1392013755' post='8634817']
[quote name='scratchswinger' timestamp='1392013237' post='8634801']
[quote name='finalist' timestamp='1392011342' post='8634695']
[quote name='Titleistman1010' timestamp='1391989098' post='8631967']
For those who want to see what TCC thinks, here you go
[url="http://www.cameroncollector.com/forum/index.php/topic,217042.0.html"]http://www.cameronco...c,217042.0.html[/url]
[/quote]

I'm banned twenty times over. What's pondy saying now?

I bet scotty makes a video and thanks all for their loyalty.
[/quote]

He reported this thread to Titleist so they can take legal action.
[/quote]

What legal action are they going to take?

I'm sure Scratch is skeered...
[/quote]

They are going to sue Scratch for copying their design. His words, not mine.

[horty1388]

The dumbest quote I have found so far on tcc

I'm sorry but I don't think there will be legal action taken. There are plenty of putter makers out the that make exact copies of 009's for example check out Byron Morgan I'm sure if it wasn't legal that guy would have been out of business years ago.

...Byron copies the 009, apparently Scotty created the putter...

[tangojay]

The little bit I have learned about infringement is that there has to be a "variation" so, if scratch's version is "inspired by version" there is no case,,,,, kind of like the inspired by ZING Laguna or the inspired by Laguna 2.5 or well, you get my point,,,,

If you copy say the circle T and place it on a putter then there is a case,,,, but if it is the name of a ranch http://www.circletranchandrodeollc.com. Or say beef jerky http://www.tcsjerky.com/. Then it is a no go,,,,

[tangojay]

[quote name='horty1388' timestamp='1392015975' post='8634881']
The dumbest quote I have found so far on tcc

I'm sorry but I don't think there will be legal action taken. There are plenty of putter makers out the that make exact copies of 009's for example check out Byron Morgan I'm sure if it wasn't legal that guy would have been out of business years ago.

...Byron copies the 009, apparently Scotty created the putter...
[/quote]

That's good! I even heard off one post of one TCC member who tried to say that Byron's "California Flatsticks" was such an obvious ripp off of Cameron's California Line,,,,,

[horty1388]

[quote name='tangojay' timestamp='1392020762' post='8634967']
[quote name='horty1388' timestamp='1392015975' post='8634881']
The dumbest quote I have found so far on tcc

I'm sorry but I don't think there will be legal action taken. There are plenty of putter makers out the that make exact copies of 009's for example check out Byron Morgan I'm sure if it wasn't legal that guy would have been out of business years ago.

...Byron copies the 009, apparently Scotty created the putter...
[/quote]

That's good! I even heard off one post of one TCC member who tried to say that Byron's "California Flatsticks" was such an obvious ripp off of Cameron's California Line,,,,,
[/quote]

I love all putter brands. I have Scotty's Byron's a xenon on the way

But it always surprises me how people that are so stupid can somehow compile enough net worth to spend thousands of dollars on Cameron's

They blatantly disregard any history that shows Cameron wasn't the first to do something. The guy is a marketing genius and has made some cool stuff but he isn't the end all be all...

Couple more gems

Quote from: Pondy on 01 Feb, 2014 20:16
FWIW, I sent an email to Titleist Brand Team, just so they're aware of that thread and that putter.

"Might as well send one to Ping to and see if they're aware of scotty cameron lol."
~~ ~~~~~~~
Quote from: Pondy on 01 Feb, 2014 19:02
Quote from: atomic on 01 Feb, 2014 18:51
"But if DH89's predate 009's by at least a decade, isn't he copying a 009 that is copying a dh89? Blav is simply clarifying on time lines and who made what and when..."

"I don't think there is any point to bringing the DH89 into the conversation because the 009 was based on Solheim's putter (per Scotty) and has nothing to with the DH89. In fact, it sort created confusion and pulled us off-topic.

This thread is about Scratch cloning the 009. "

[xxio]

Just tell Pondy if he is so sure about the case to pony up the filing fees.

[tangojay]

[quote name='horty1388' timestamp='1392024372' post='8635019']
[quote name='tangojay' timestamp='1392020762' post='8634967']
[quote name='horty1388' timestamp='1392015975' post='8634881']
The dumbest quote I have found so far on tcc

I'm sorry but I don't think there will be legal action taken. There are plenty of putter makers out the that make exact copies of 009's for example check out Byron Morgan I'm sure if it wasn't legal that guy would have been out of business years ago.

...Byron copies the 009, apparently Scotty created the putter...
[/quote]

That's good! I even heard off one post of one TCC member who tried to say that Byron's "California Flatsticks" was such an obvious ripp off of Cameron's California Line,,,,,
[/quote]

I love all putter brands. I have Scotty's Byron's a xenon on the way

But it always surprises me how people that are so stupid can somehow compile enough net worth to spend thousands of dollars on Cameron's

They blatantly disregard any history that shows Cameron wasn't the first to do something. The guy is a marketing genius and has made some cool stuff but he isn't the end all be all...

Couple more gems

Quote from: Pondy on 01 Feb, 2014 20:16
FWIW, I sent an email to Titleist Brand Team, just so they're aware of that thread and that putter.

"Might as well send one to Ping to and see if they're aware of scotty cameron lol."
~~ ~~~~~~~
Quote from: Pondy on 01 Feb, 2014 19:02
Quote from: atomic on 01 Feb, 2014 18:51
"But if DH89's predate 009's by at least a decade, isn't he copying a 009 that is copying a dh89? Blav is simply clarifying on time lines and who made what and when..."

"I don't think there is any point to bringing the DH89 into the conversation because the 009 was based on Solheim's putter (per Scotty) and has nothing to with the DH89. In fact, it sort created confusion and pulled us off-topic.

This thread is about Scratch cloning the 009. "
[/quote]

Thanks for the post! WOW,,,,I am surprised some posts went against the norm,,,,,,,

[Scotty1140]

Not surprising the TCC thread was locked before anything else came out. Wouldn't want the hardcore fans over there thinking the 009 wasn't Scotty's original design.

And yeah TJ, I'm also a bit surprised at a few posters actually acknowledging such.

[finalist]

Dear Pondy,

It's funny how CAD files can be saved and reused.

Your friend,
DH-11

[lightningbolt444]

It is funny how the guys at TCC think they are supporting the brand. Really they drive some people away. I love the look of some Scottys and have no issues with him reusing old designs every maker does it. However I will NEVER own a 009 simply because of how the TCC community and Some Scotty supporters act. It is one thing to be passionate about something it is another to turn a blind eye to everything. I know some great guys that are Cameron collectors however a few loud voices give the name a bad rap. To bad as well since some of the 009 that scotty turns out look amazing.

People need to realize the putter market has room for everyone. Everyone will like what they like and there is room for more than one brand. More than one brand make some amazing things as well.

[dwboston]

[quote name='lightningbolt444' timestamp='1392045687' post='8636163']
It is funny how the guys at TCC think they are supporting the brand. Really they drive some people away. I love the look of some Scottys and have no issues with him reusing old designs every maker does it. However I will NEVER own a 009 simply because of how the TCC community and Some Scotty supporters act. It is one thing to be passionate about something it is another to turn a blind eye to everything. I know some great guys that are Cameron collectors however a few loud voices give the name a bad rap. To bad as well since some of the 009 that scotty turns out look amazing.[/quote]

They have to act that way, or they will be cast out like previous apostates. Cults demand absolute loyalty.

[jlevitt9]

[quote name='Pure745' timestamp='1391965521' post='8629367']
[quote name='jlevitt9' timestamp='1391926558' post='8627779']
[quote name='TooMuchAwesome' timestamp='1391906869' post='8626075']
This thread cracks me up. [b]They are all basically variations of the original design from Karsten Solheim, which is not copyright protected in any way, shape, or form to the best of my knowledge.[/b] ....Let's just enjoy each company's interpretation and appreciate the craftsmanship that goes into these pieces!
[/quote]

Your insight is too logical for the vast majority of WRX'ers.

Yes, Cameron says he is inspired by things when perhaps realistically he's just rehashing an old design. Let it go.
[/quote]

Too logical for WRX'ers.. did you read the thread on TCC?
[/quote]

That thread is one of the reasons I rarely post on TCC anymore.

[502 to Right]

In defense of TCC, there was a prominent member who posted in that thread that the DH89 predated the 009. In fact he did it multiple times because most Cameron fans there find it hard to accept that fact.

I see this Scratch/009 "controversy" as much adieu about nothing. The headstyle is not patented (to my knowledge), which makes it fair game to be copied by anyone.

[schuyler]

These scotty loyolists over at TCC are one of the big reasons I stopped buying Cameron's. While the quality of Cameron's are good, and they are no doubt very solid milled putters, I just simply hate to be associated with the "Cameron's are far and beyond the best putters in the world, and you need one to be elite, just look at tiger" Crowd. Listening to people blather on about how much superior they are is simply mind numbing. While most cameron owners are not this way, the radicals sure do bring down the reputation for the rest.

I have found a much happier home amoung betti, byron, ping, odyssey ect fans.

I can't wait to see how the scratch putter turns out, I really like the headshape from the early pics.