How to ask a club how they are doing?

[dwooder]

Kind of a confusing title haha, anyways Im looking to move into a country club type community that had a couple years ago filed for bankruptcy and sold(The course did). A company that owns and runs a golf course in another city close by bought it and restored the course and everything seems to be fine now, with decent player numbers it seems.

 

 

How or should I ask about the health of the course? It would be heartbreaking to finally have my dream house on a golf course only for it to go away.

 

Fun fact: While it was down it as used in The Walking Dead.

[tw422]

just ask them how they are doing. if they can't give you a straight answer something is fishy. although I'm confused - are you joining the club or are you worried that the club/course will go under after buy and build your home on it?

[dwooder]

I will be joining the club if I buy the house that is in the community and I dont want it to go under after I buy my house.

Yeah I guess I can bring up buying a house and joining and then ask how they are doing.

[rbhan12]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're stating that the course was sold, and not the real estate development correct? If so, I would presume the party that owns the course couldn't care if you were buying property on the course or not, seeing as the only financial gain they would reap is you paying to be a member. Because they don't have stake in the real estate and only the golf course, I think using the real estate argument as "leverage" doesn't necessarily hold water. Again, that's assuming I'm understanding correctly and only the course was sold.

If so, I think you should just ask how they're doing financially and if they'd be willing to share some basic cost/revenue numbers with you.

[Bonneville85308]

I think a more polite/less offensive way of getting this information would be to ask how many members they have total and how many of those have golf memberships. It may sound like you are asking because you want to get a feel for how crowded the place could get. If it's under 300 they are probably in trouble. If it's over 500 then they are probably doing fine. How does the dues structure now compare to what it was before it went BK? If it's not considerably less expensive than it used to be, then I can see the same thing happening again.

I always liked the quote, "don't buy a home for the view unless you own that view."

[caniac6]

I used to be a member at a struggling private course, and it was depressing hearing about their constant money problems. I want to go to a club to have fun, not hear a bunch of stuff. That being said, if I ever go private again, I would not hesitate to be blunt in asking about their financial status. They are looking for a long term financial commitment from you, and they ask for your financial info on the membership application, so if they won't reciprocate, I would move on. I would also try to find out as much as I could about the new owner. I heard that an owner at a local course responded to a member with a legitimate concern by telling him he could build houses on the course, and he should quit complaining. I would also try to talk to some current and ex members. You are the consumer, and they are competing for your money. If they won't respond to your concerns, check out some other options.

[TKD24]

In my experience, the best way to get an honest answer is to talk to the current members and residents. Management will always sugar coat it. It's not a knock on them, it's just their job. Bottom line, they're in the sales business.

I like one of the previous posts about asking how many active members they have though.

[farmer]

I assume you will pay a premium to buy/build a house on this property, even though the original developer no longer owns the golf course. So, what kind of course is it? Private equity, semi-private or upscale public? What are the clubhouse minimums? Do the new owners assess? Talk to members and don't be bashful about asking the awkward questions. The worst scenario for you is to spend the money and have the course go south.

[dwooder]

Thanks for all the replies guys.

A little misunderstanding or my lack of details. The course is not private anymore, it is totally public. The country club isnt a country club anymore, the house I want to buy(not build) is in the old country club neighborhood. Its not directly on a golf hole(dont care to pay that much extra for a view).

[knock it close]

Personally I don't see any issues with asking for their financial. If you're joining the club, especially one with an equity stake, you are making an investment into it, and it would be irresponsible for you to not know the standing of the club ahead of time.

Edit: missed the part where the course is no longer private

[crazy8golfer]

[quote name='dwooder' timestamp='1421782826' post='10784789']
Thanks for all the replies guys.

A little misunderstanding or my lack of details. The course is not private anymore, it is totally public. The country club isnt a country club anymore, the house I want to buy(not build) is in the old country club neighborhood. Its not directly on a golf hole(dont care to pay that much extra for a view).
[/quote]

Hello,
I have been a member of 3 different clubs over the years and rest assured, they will tell you anything to get you as a member. Currently live in a golf community, but no longer a member of the club. Got tired of them thinking they had me by the ba**s !!!! You are the potential customer and don't forget it. Ask them anything thing you want, current membership numbers and how many full members vs social members. Find out as much information as possible from current members or ex members. Gather all the information that you can. What ever you do, do not pay an initiation fee.

Good Luck

[Truman]

Since it's a public course, I don't think you have the rightvtonasknabout their finances. Anymore than you would ask a local store owner to share his financial information with you.

[dwooder]

[quote name='Truman' timestamp='1421806366' post='10787415']
Since it's a public course, I don't think you have the rightvtonasknabout their finances. Anymore than you would ask a local store owner to share his financial information with you.
[/quote]

I was thinking about that but I do plan on becoming a member and I think as a member I should know where my money is going and such.

[Guia]

I would assume that they publish a quarterly financial statement, it is usually a requirement. Ask to see it.

[ruascott]

Considering this is a public course, you are not going to get much in the way of financial info. And you aren't really investing anything in a true membership. I'm guessing you would just be buying an annual pass. I guess you could ask how many annual passes they sell, but they may not even want to tell you that. And considering it's public, I'm not sure how much value that info is worth anyway.

If you like the house and course then go for it. What exactly are you concerned about?

[dwooder]

The house is fine with or without the golf course, Im not directly on it so Im not paying extra for the "view". I just dont want the golf course to go under again, Ive always wanted to live real close to a golf course where I could just hop on my golf cart and go.

Attendance wise from the look of the parking lot and stuff they are getting just as many people as the other 3 courses I visit around here so I would assume everything is going good.

[HighSpeedScene]

"I understand that the course changed hands recently - while that's not unusual, I assume you are used to getting questions from prospective members about the financial health of the club - what can you tell me about that?"

[ruascott]

Golf courses rarely close. It does happen, but usually pretty extreme circumstances either caused by major over saturation of courses in an area, or the real estate value increasing so much it make sense to develop the land into something else.

Neither sounds likely here, so I honestly wouldn't bother worrying about it. If it was a private club requiring a big initiation, yes. But not here

[DonatelloNobodie]

My thoughts on this discussion:

1. A public course is not going to tell you anything about it's finances. A private club will be reluctant. In either case, you will have only their verbal response to go on, which is worth nothing.

2. Golf courses are closing in large numbers. Industry experts predict that up to 1/3 of all courses will close before the supply shrinks to match declining demand.

3. Because if this, I would not pay any premium for a golf course lot/house. You run a risk of having an overgrown field in your back yard (or worse - some unexpected development).

4. Also because of this, I would avoid paying any significant initiation or other joining fee for a private club. Even if they tell you it's refundable. There are many current lawsuits from members trying to recover “refundable” fees from private clubs that closed or are in financial difficulty.

5. You say that your course is public – this means that you would not be “joining” anything – just buying a season pass. (This is not a bad thing! Cost per round can be low if you play a lot, and you only risk a small amount if the clubs goes titsup.)

6. If you doubt any of this, google 'Golf Course Closing' to see the state of things.

7. The good news is that the cost to play is going down significantly.

[sabram]

Go to the pro shop and say to the pro "How You Doin" Here are some examples: [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjQ1xD6UL-4"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjQ1xD6UL-4[/url]

[Togatown22]

[quote name='ruascott' timestamp='1421865586' post='10791731']
Golf courses rarely close. It does happen, but usually pretty extreme circumstances either caused by major over saturation of courses in an area, or the real estate value increasing so much it make sense to develop the land into something else.

Neither sounds likely here, so I honestly wouldn't bother worrying about it. If it was a private club requiring a big initiation, yes. But not here
[/quote]

It's actually happened quite a lot in the past few years: http://www.forbes.com/sites/bobcook/2014/05/23/how-a-declining-middle-class-is-killing-golf/
Over 600 courses have closed in the U.S. since 2006.

[farmer]

So, you're buying a house in an older, established neighborhood that happens to have a golf course close by? With no equity involved, you can play elsewhere with no guilt, so it sounds like a win to me.

[PGAGUY85]

The entire conversation is different when you said it was 100% public. I would suggest to ask the local neighborhood what the vibe of the course is nowadays with the new ownership. Unfortunately, the management will not give you any financials to see. Go online and see what the area courses are like and what the competition is.

1) What is the course name (if you don't mind sharing)
2) Go play a round there and ask a cart guy how the course is doing. He is more apt to tell you the real answer for a little "tip" but make sure the kid is not too young. May look at an older guy or even a bartender. Try and ask who has been there throughout the transition and they will tell you.
3) Ask that you are interested in the annual pass and would like to play the course to see how it is. This simple question will get you answers on how the management is, service standards, etc.
4) go on Yelp and see if there are any reviews.
5) Find as much information you can from the neighborhoods.

I get it that you are most likely looking at the course for the ability to have your own cart. Does the course have one owner or is it a management company?

Feel free to PM me if you like.

[360_CS]

Ask for the annual report of the club. I've done that before.