Changes YOU'D LIKE TO SEE to the game of golf

[Roody]

[quote name='crater_divots' timestamp='1436208943' post='11897592']
How much do golf carts cost to buy, and then maintain? I would assume that the price of a golf cart multiplied by the number of carts that an average course owns, would make the total cost extremely high. Add to that the cost of gas (or electric for those that have gone "green"), and then add in the regular maintinence to the carts, and we have very high overhead before we even factor in the golf course.
[/quote]
Any of the costs you described above are more than offset by the fees that the course charges to ride them. If anything, what I'd like to see changed is the rule that some courses have that requires that you must take a cart. I don't think you should ever be forced to take a cart.

[avrag]

[quote name='FlyPhish' timestamp='1436207849' post='11897466']
[quote name='jbhawx' timestamp='1436206733' post='11897326']
[quote name='FlyPhish' timestamp='1436205589' post='11897190'] 1. Tees should be based on handicap. Shuffle red to a longer tee to remove the stigma, or use completely new colors. Starters, marshalls and course information should clearly present the change and "gently" persuade players to play the correct tees. 2. Public courses should limit the rough length to speed up searches. Still make it penal, just make spotting balls possible. 3. Pin placements and tees on the weekend should be set at near the easiest possible. Trick the course up during the week for the regulars and league nights. [/quote]

There is a huge stigma with tee boxes. Even hitting from the mens tees you are supposed to hit it past the ladies tees... Some golfers can't do this
[/quote]

True, it would be an uphill battle getting men to play from anything but the back two tees, regardless of color or handicap.

Courses should try at least, slowly change the culture.
[/quote]

If I do this at my home course (and I have tried a few times), I have two options:
a) hit every green except two on par 4s with the tee shot, which I usually do from the front tees, because driver and 3wood are the most consistent clubs for me. It would delay the game and would do nothing to improve my game, in which I struggle most with approaches with medium and short irons.
b) lay up well back on every hole with a medium iron, which would change nothing about my scores.

Not every mid-handicapper is either distance-challenged or hits 3 drives OB in every round.

[pheenomz4774]

[quote name='rsj1360' timestamp='1436208309' post='11897508']

I don't think it is exactly exponential increase. If that were the case then if a single would take say 2 1/2 hrs to play 18, then a twosome would take five hours, a threesome ten, and a foursome 20.

Kind of the reverse of another tread where someone said each additional player should add five minutes to the round - so a twosome would be 2 hrs 35 min, a threesome 2 hrs 40 mins, and a foursome 2 hrs 45 mins.

I don't believe either is exactly right...
[/quote]

I guess to clarify I'm not talking about the actual round length, but the difference in round length when adding one person. For example:

I can get through 18 on an empty course in a cart in just under 2 hours, let's say 1:45.
If i'm playing with a buddy just as quick as me, same parameters, probably will take us 2:05.

However, if we add a 3rd, even if they play just as fast, it won't take 2:25, more like 2:35.
Adding a 4th player in that same circumstance again increases it by more than just 20 minutes like going from 1 to 2, and more than 30 minutes, like going from 2 to 3. It'll be more like 3:30 hours.

[pheenomz4774]

[quote name='avrag' timestamp='1436211389' post='11897960']
[quote name='FlyPhish' timestamp='1436207849' post='11897466']
[quote name='jbhawx' timestamp='1436206733' post='11897326']
[quote name='FlyPhish' timestamp='1436205589' post='11897190'] 1. Tees should be based on handicap. Shuffle red to a longer tee to remove the stigma, or use completely new colors. Starters, marshalls and course information should clearly present the change and "gently" persuade players to play the correct tees. 2. Public courses should limit the rough length to speed up searches. Still make it penal, just make spotting balls possible. 3. Pin placements and tees on the weekend should be set at near the easiest possible. Trick the course up during the week for the regulars and league nights. [/quote]

There is a huge stigma with tee boxes. Even hitting from the mens tees you are supposed to hit it past the ladies tees... Some golfers can't do this
[/quote]

True, it would be an uphill battle getting men to play from anything but the back two tees, regardless of color or handicap.

Courses should try at least, slowly change the culture.
[/quote]

If I do this at my home course (and I have tried a few times), I have two options:
a) hit every green except two on par 4s with the tee shot, which I usually do from the front tees, because driver and 3wood are the most consistent clubs for me. It would delay the game and would do nothing to improve my game, in which I struggle most with approaches with medium and short irons.
b) lay up well back on every hole with a medium iron, which would change nothing about my scores.

Not every mid-handicapper is either distance-challenged or hits 3 drives OB in every round.
[/quote]

There are courses that I've played that do a "blended tee" option. Where on some holes they have you tee off from one tee box, and some holes you tee off from ones further up or further back. At the end of the round it gives you a course and slope rating plus a yardage. This sort of saves the ego because you're not ALWAYS playing the forward tees but still gives a variety of a challenge so you're not always going in over your head on the tougher holes.

[JimNewton]

The only change I am in favor of is banning the line on the ball for putting. That's it.

And less carts.

[Argonne69]

Yeah, more combo tee sets. It's only a scorecard (w/ rating an slope) change. I see courses with 600 yards between the tees, and this is too far. I like tees to be ~300 yards difference.

[BillyZ2]

[quote name='Argonne69' timestamp='1436192037' post='11895636']
[quote name='KrazyTrain18' timestamp='1436166043' post='11894604']
If your going to have a beer cart, at least make sure the girl is hot.
[/quote]

I'd rather ensure that the beer is cold. I'll only see the girl for a minute, but I have to drink that warm swill after she leaves. Blech.
[/quote]Nothing worse then warm beer. As long as the girl is polite/friendly, everything is good! (as long as the beverages are ice cold)

[FlyPhish]

[quote name='avrag' timestamp='1436211389' post='11897960']
[quote name='FlyPhish' timestamp='1436207849' post='11897466']
[quote name='jbhawx' timestamp='1436206733' post='11897326']
[quote name='FlyPhish' timestamp='1436205589' post='11897190'] 1. Tees should be based on handicap. Shuffle red to a longer tee to remove the stigma, or use completely new colors. Starters, marshalls and course information should clearly present the change and "gently" persuade players to play the correct tees. 2. Public courses should limit the rough length to speed up searches. Still make it penal, just make spotting balls possible. 3. Pin placements and tees on the weekend should be set at near the easiest possible. Trick the course up during the week for the regulars and league nights. [/quote]

There is a huge stigma with tee boxes. Even hitting from the mens tees you are supposed to hit it past the ladies tees... Some golfers can't do this
[/quote]

True, it would be an uphill battle getting men to play from anything but the back two tees, regardless of color or handicap.

Courses should try at least, slowly change the culture.
[/quote]

If I do this at my home course (and I have tried a few times), I have two options:
a) hit every green except two on par 4s with the tee shot, which I usually do from the front tees, because driver and 3wood are the most consistent clubs for me. It would delay the game and would do nothing to improve my game, in which I struggle most with approaches with medium and short irons.
b) lay up well back on every hole with a medium iron, which would change nothing about my scores.

Not every mid-handicapper is either distance-challenged or hits 3 drives OB in every round.
[/quote]

Fair enough. You are correct handicap is tied too much more than distance.

[Musky]

When you buy a set of clubs you should have to play them for at least four years. Also, each player should get a pitching wedge and a sand wedge. No more multi-wedge combos. And putters don't need head covers. All that taking on and off, dropping them, leaving them, it slows down the game. And marking of balls on the green is unnecessary. Ban that.

Oh, and more carts. Modern golf is meant to be played from a powered cart.

[BobbyDPlaysGolf]

[quote name='deetsal' timestamp='1436188804' post='11895336'][quote name='glcoach' timestamp='1436158370' post='11894422']
I would like to see uniform lofts on clubs. 4 degree gaps from a 12 degree driver to a max of 56 degree wedge, plus the putter

So...for instance.

12 degree driver
16 degree fw
20 degree long iron or hybrid or fw
24 degree hybrid or iron
28 iron
32 iron
36 iron
40 iron
44 iron
48 iron/wedge
52 wedge
56 wedge
Putter with a uniform loft of 4 degrees
[/quote]Nice idea, how would you police that, you can still bend clubs 2 or 3 degrees.[/quote]

This is an awful idea and would further promote the same robotic trackman era swing. What's next? Everyone has to have the same lie degree also? You shouldn't be punished for having a homegrown game. For instance I grew up hitting a 7.5 degree driver, if I hit a 12 degree driver it's sky mailing to nowhere. Sure maybe with some of the newer stuff with the forward weight it'll go a little lower but removing the factor of finding the bag for your game is an awful idea in my opinion.

[Roody]

[quote name='JimNewton' timestamp='1436215263' post='11898438']
The only change I am in favor of is banning the line on the ball for putting. That's it.
[/quote]
Why? In the end it's still up to the golfer to pick the correct line, and execute the putt at the right speed. I use the line on the golf ball religiously. It's one less thing I have to think about while standing over my putt.

[hogans71]

[quote name='glcoach' timestamp='1436158370' post='11894422']
I would like to see uniform lofts on clubs. 4 degree gaps from a 12 degree driver to a max of 56 degree wedge, plus the putter

So...for instance.

12 degree driver
16 degree fw
20 degree long iron or hybrid or fw
24 degree hybrid or iron
28 iron
32 iron
36 iron
40 iron
44 iron
48 iron/wedge
52 wedge
56 wedge
Putter with a uniform loft of 4 degrees
[/quote]

Curious as to what this accomplishes...

[JimNewton]

[quote name='Roody' timestamp='1436269672' post='11901898']
[quote name='JimNewton' timestamp='1436215263' post='11898438']
The only change I am in favor of is banning the line on the ball for putting. That's it.
[/quote]
Why? In the end it's still up to the golfer to pick the correct line, and execute the putt at the right speed. I use the line on the golf ball religiously. It's one less thing I have to think about while standing over my putt.
[/quote]

Because some of the guys you see on TV (and probably quite a few bad amateurs) will take 10 minutes re lining it up 17 times over a 4 foot putt. Faldo rants about it all the time. Some argue it's an artificial aid but to me it sometimes gets into undue delay. Jim Furyk.

[Shipwreck]

[quote name='hogans71' timestamp='1436273381' post='11902152']
[quote name='glcoach' timestamp='1436158370' post='11894422']
I would like to see uniform lofts on clubs. 4 degree gaps from a 12 degree driver to a max of 56 degree wedge, plus the putter

So...for instance.

12 degree driver
16 degree fw
20 degree long iron or hybrid or fw
24 degree hybrid or iron
28 iron
32 iron
36 iron
40 iron
44 iron
48 iron/wedge
52 wedge
56 wedge
Putter with a uniform loft of 4 degrees
[/quote]

Curious as to what this accomplishes...
[/quote]

I just wish manufacturers were more honest about their clubs loft. I guess I can see a point in "uniform" lofts just for the purpose of that. Don't claim your 6 iron is a 6 iron when the loft is closer to a 4 iron just because you want to brag about distance.

It's like clothing makers too. A size 36 waist should be a size 36 no matter what you buy, just as my size 12 shoes should always be size 12 regardless of who makes them.

[Roody]

[quote name='JimNewton' timestamp='1436274746' post='11902260']
Because some of the guys you see on TV (and probably quite a few bad amateurs) will take 10 minutes re lining it up 17 times over a 4 foot putt. Faldo rants about it all the time. Some argue it's an artificial aid but to me it sometimes gets into undue delay. Jim Furyk.
[/quote]
Sure, but you could make that argument on a lot of things in the pre-shot routine. Like golfers who take a hundred practice swings when one or two is plenty, etc. Someone who can't commit to something and execute is a between-the-ears problem. In other words, "slow golfer gonna slow", line or not.

[Halebopp]

[quote name='Roody' timestamp='1436279435' post='11902678']
[quote name='JimNewton' timestamp='1436274746' post='11902260']
Because some of the guys you see on TV (and probably quite a few bad amateurs) will take 10 minutes re lining it up 17 times over a 4 foot putt. Faldo rants about it all the time. Some argue it's an artificial aid but to me it sometimes gets into undue delay. Jim Furyk.
[/quote]
Sure, but you could make that argument on a lot of things in the pre-shot routine. Like golfers who take a hundred practice swings when one or two is plenty, etc. Someone who can't commit to something and execute is a between-the-ears problem. In other words, "slow golfer gonna slow", line or not.
[/quote]

I'd like to see Titleist, Bridgestone, TM, Srixon, Callaway and all the other ball manufacturers' reaction to the ban of them printing their and model names on the balls - at least on straight lines. At least Callaway would be safe with their logo.

[pierso2]

No more foot golf. It's just annoying and sad looking.

[VNutz]

[quote name='pierso2' timestamp='1436282580' post='11903046']
No more foot golf. It's just annoying and sad looking.
[/quote]

Very annoying to see it at Village Links 9 holer, even worse to have to play with soccer guys running through the course oblivious as to what's going on.

[BillyZ2]

[quote name='Musky' timestamp='1436245626' post='11901310']
When you buy a set of clubs you should have to play them for at least four years. Also, each player should get a pitching wedge and a sand wedge. No more multi-wedge combos. And putters don't need head covers. All that taking on and off, dropping them, leaving them, it slows down the game. And marking of balls on the green is unnecessary. Ban that.

Oh, and more carts. Modern golf is meant to be played from a powered cart.
[/quote]...and while you're at it, maybe we should ban left handed golfers, why can't all golfers swing right handed?

[thug the bunny]

Can anyone explain WHY the OB penalty is more than a hazard penalty? Just because the OB area is not golf course property why does that make the punishment more severe? Yes, you are not supposed to hit the ball OB, but you're also not supposed to hit it into a lake either.

[Shipwreck]

[quote name='BillyZ2' timestamp='1436286210' post='11903500']
[quote name='Musky' timestamp='1436245626' post='11901310']
When you buy a set of clubs you should have to play them for at least four years. Also, each player should get a pitching wedge and a sand wedge. No more multi-wedge combos. And putters don't need head covers. All that taking on and off, dropping them, leaving them, it slows down the game. And marking of balls on the green is unnecessary. Ban that.

Oh, and more carts. Modern golf is meant to be played from a powered cart.
[/quote]...and while you're at it, maybe we should ban left handed golfers, why can't all golfers swing right handed?
[/quote]

Now this is something I can get behind (joking of course). But in all honesty, there is something about watching a lefty hit a ball that messes with my mind. Everything about their swing just looks wonky to me.

[Bohsaucey]

[quote name='Shipwreck' timestamp='1436289469' post='11903926']
[quote name='BillyZ2' timestamp='1436286210' post='11903500']
[quote name='Musky' timestamp='1436245626' post='11901310']
When you buy a set of clubs you should have to play them for at least four years. Also, each player should get a pitching wedge and a sand wedge. No more multi-wedge combos. And putters don't need head covers. All that taking on and off, dropping them, leaving them, it slows down the game. And marking of balls on the green is unnecessary. Ban that.

Oh, and more carts. Modern golf is meant to be played from a powered cart.
[/quote]...and while you're at it, maybe we should ban left handed golfers, why can't all golfers swing right handed?
[/quote]

Now this is something I can get behind (joking of course). But in all honesty, there is something about watching a lefty hit a ball that messes with my mind. Everything about their swing just looks wonky to me.
[/quote]

I am lefty, but can't stand watching lefty's hit.

[glcoach]

[quote name='BobbyDPlaysGolf' timestamp='1436248423' post='11901442'][quote name='deetsal' timestamp='1436188804' post='11895336'][quote name='glcoach' timestamp='1436158370' post='11894422']
I would like to see uniform lofts on clubs. 4 degree gaps from a 12 degree driver to a max of 56 degree wedge, plus the putter

So...for instance.

12 degree driver
16 degree fw
20 degree long iron or hybrid or fw
24 degree hybrid or iron
28 iron
32 iron
36 iron
40 iron
44 iron
48 iron/wedge
52 wedge
56 wedge
Putter with a uniform loft of 4 degrees
[/quote]Nice idea, how would you police that, you can still bend clubs 2 or 3 degrees.[/quote]

This is an awful idea and would further promote the same robotic trackman era swing. What's next? Everyone has to have the same lie degree also? You shouldn't be punished for having a homegrown game. For instance I grew up hitting a 7.5 degree driver, if I hit a 12 degree driver it's sky mailing to nowhere. Sure maybe with some of the newer stuff with the forward weight it'll go a little lower but removing the factor of finding the bag for your game is an awful idea in my opinion.[/quote]

You know nothing of Trackman if you think it promotes robotic swings. That was the video camera era. Trackman helps the homegrown game more than anything. Educate yourself before making inane comments.

Also, it was just a thought. I have always been curious as to what would happen in golf with uniform equipment. That's all. Nothing sinister.

[mshills]

[quote name='thug the bunny' timestamp='1436289288' post='11903896']
Can anyone explain WHY the OB penalty is more than a hazard penalty? Just because the OB area is not golf course property why does that make the punishment more severe? Yes, you are not supposed to hit the ball OB, but you're also not supposed to hit it into a lake either.
[/quote]

I believe the idea is that hitting it entirely off the property is far worse than hitting it into a hazard on the property.

[thug the bunny]

[quote name='mshills' timestamp='1436292928' post='11904436']
[quote name='thug the bunny' timestamp='1436289288' post='11903896']
Can anyone explain WHY the OB penalty is more than a hazard penalty? Just because the OB area is not golf course property why does that make the punishment more severe? Yes, you are not supposed to hit the ball OB, but you're also not supposed to hit it into a lake either.
[/quote]

I believe the idea is that hitting it entirely off the property is far worse than hitting it into a hazard on the property.
[/quote]

Yes, but all of the OBs I have ever encountered were relatively close to the playing areas. On one of my home courses the first two holes have OB stakes down the right side only about 10 - 20 yds from the fairway because there is a dirt road that is not course property.

[Halebopp]

[quote name='thug the bunny' timestamp='1436294191' post='11904574']
[quote name='mshills' timestamp='1436292928' post='11904436']
[quote name='thug the bunny' timestamp='1436289288' post='11903896']
Can anyone explain WHY the OB penalty is more than a hazard penalty? Just because the OB area is not golf course property why does that make the punishment more severe? Yes, you are not supposed to hit the ball OB, but you're also not supposed to hit it into a lake either.
[/quote]

I believe the idea is that hitting it entirely off the property is far worse than hitting it into a hazard on the property.
[/quote]

Yes, but all of the OBs I have ever encountered were relatively close to the playing areas. On one of my home courses the first two holes have OB stakes down the right side only about 10 - 20 yds from the fairway because there is a dirt road that is not course property.
[/quote]

Let me ask you this, why should OB be less penal than a lost ball? Especially when most OBs are along property lines and thus you can't retrieve your ball, which makes it pretty much the same as a lost ball.

[thug the bunny]

[quote name='Halebopp' timestamp='1436297499' post='11905008']
[quote name='thug the bunny' timestamp='1436294191' post='11904574']
[quote name='mshills' timestamp='1436292928' post='11904436']
[quote name='thug the bunny' timestamp='1436289288' post='11903896']
Can anyone explain WHY the OB penalty is more than a hazard penalty? Just because the OB area is not golf course property why does that make the punishment more severe? Yes, you are not supposed to hit the ball OB, but you're also not supposed to hit it into a lake either.
[/quote]

I believe the idea is that hitting it entirely off the property is far worse than hitting it into a hazard on the property.
[/quote]

Yes, but all of the OBs I have ever encountered were relatively close to the playing areas. On one of my home courses the first two holes have OB stakes down the right side only about 10 - 20 yds from the fairway because there is a dirt road that is not course property.
[/quote]

Let me ask you this, why should OB be less penal than a lost ball? Especially when most OBs are along property lines and thus you can't retrieve your ball, which makes it pretty much the same as a lost ball.
[/quote]

I'm also in the camp of taking a drop and stroke for a lost ball, even though deciding on the point of the drop can sometimes be inexact, but then so is estimating the crossing point of a hazard line sometimes.

[AlecEmersonGolf]

[quote name='JimNewton' timestamp='1436274746' post='11902260']
[quote name='Roody' timestamp='1436269672' post='11901898']
[quote name='JimNewton' timestamp='1436215263' post='11898438']
The only change I am in favor of is banning the line on the ball for putting. That's it.
[/quote]
Why? In the end it's still up to the golfer to pick the correct line, and execute the putt at the right speed. I use the line on the golf ball religiously. It's one less thing I have to think about while standing over my putt.
[/quote]

Because some of the guys you see on TV (and probably quite a few bad amateurs) will take 10 minutes re lining it up 17 times over a 4 foot putt. Faldo rants about it all the time. Some argue it's an artificial aid but to me it sometimes gets into undue delay. Jim Furyk.
[/quote] The line on the ball is certainly not an artificial aid, the ball and its markings are sent to the golf governing bodies to be approved for play in competition, so it cant be an artificial aid in my mind, because it wouldn't have been approved by the governing body.

[Reasonability]

Many things - but all pointed to one common thing.... the beginners, the elderly, and those with disabilities.

There used to be "reminder" grips available that had a flattened area for the left hand. There still are training grips out there which are molded to help a new golfer "get a grip". So I would start with the making those grips sanctioned for play for anyone mentioned above and give them absolutely no flack about it. (Hate seeing those folks get the rule book thrown at them).

Would make it clearer how to get setup and swing given the individual's needs. Not too much is out there for the older fella with a bad back - or the kid trying to swing a club too heavy for him, etc. (Better than it used to be but we have a long way to go).

That or things like that are about it. Call it bifurcation or whatever you want to call it... the game needs a little bit more of a boost in terms of welcoming newbies - RETAINING them. Noting better than seeing a kid, an adult newbie, and aging golfer, or a person with challenges take up this game. Very little worse than seeing them have to fight against the tide and give up - especially if the equipment or rule book gets thrown at them harshly.

[DenisO]

I've read all the comments for and against being able to lift, clean, and place (or drop) from a fairway divot and I'm still for it. I don't think anyone has mentioned mud balls yet, either, but that's another reason I'm for it.
I think I'd actually go as far as saying you should be able to lift, clean, and place within a foot whenever you're in the fairway. Mud, pitch marks, divots, leaves, twigs, whatever. If a ball ends up 6 inches from mine, and they have a perfect lie with nothing affecting their ball flight, I just don't see it as being fair.

I play maybe 5 local tournaments per year at other courses, and I can remember being in a divot in both of the last 2 years. On top of that, my home course is short, and the landing areas are smaller, so I'm probably in them more often than others claiming they've only been in a single one over the past few years. That, or I'm incredibly unlucky :P