side saddle putters - what putter are you using?

[BigEx44]

On 11/1/2020 at 5:04 PM, CantPuttWontPutt said:

All. 
 

I just wanted to thank everyone on this site. 
 

id nearly quit golf due to my putting (not really but you get the idea). I had started standing with an open stance and just rolling it in because it was the only way I could get the ball in the hole. 
 

this was before I realised side saddle was even a thing !!  Now I do and I’m very excited about the new least of life.  I’ve just started experimenting but I already know this is the technique for me. Am I the only one in the UK that will be putting this way???

 

have been reading all the info on putters with great interest and will be deciding soon.  
 

thanks All !!! 

 

I went to a golf school in England a few years.  Class size was 6 people and I was very surprized that another guy in the classs also putted sidesaddle.  So the UK has a few!

[BigEx44]

21 hours ago, CantPuttWontPutt said:

hi all. 
 

Still looking at side saddle putters. Really interested to know how many of you are putting pretty much vertically. I’m interested because as I’m still honing my technique (read “just starting it!”) and i’m keen to get a putter that keeps my options open. 
 

Can the f-22 be held vertically or pretty much the same angle as the JuanPutt?  I may be going for the JuanPutt because I seriously can’t afford the F22. 🤷‍♂️

 

for experimenting i have a 43 inch long odyssey 2 ball (but worried the angle won’t be steep enough) and looking to pick up and old STX 45inch belly just to practice techniques. 
 

so question again. Who side saddles at 80ish degrees and who goes vertical (and with which clubs)

 

thanks all !!

 

Matt

 

 

I tend to be closer to 80 than 90.

Definately 80 on the mid range and longer putts.

Maybe 85'ish on the shorter putts (6 ft snd in)

My personal sense is that there's more putter stability at 80.

[Spuggy]

23 hours ago, CantPuttWontPutt said:

hi all. 
 

Still looking at side saddle putters. Really interested to know how many of you are putting pretty much vertically. I’m interested because as I’m still honing my technique (read “just starting it!”) and i’m keen to get a putter that keeps my options open. 
 

Can the f-22 be held vertically or pretty much the same angle as the JuanPutt?  I may be going for the JuanPutt because I seriously can’t afford the F22. 🤷‍♂️

 

for experimenting i have a 43 inch long odyssey 2 ball (but worried the angle won’t be steep enough) and looking to pick up and old STX 45inch belly just to practice techniques. 
 

so question again. Who side saddles at 80ish degrees and who goes vertical (and with which clubs)

 

thanks all !!

 

Matt

 

 

I use the GP putter which is designed to be held vertically. To putt this way requires an 80° shaft and a short headed putter like the GP. The only thing I would have liked on the GP is a centre line for lining up putts, I have just tried to add one myself but unable to test it out due to a rib injury.

Edited November 3, 2020 by Spuggy

[CanPuttWillPutt2]

20 minutes ago, Spuggy said:

I use the GP putter which is designed to be held vertically. To putt this way requires an 80° shaft and a short headed putter like the GP. The only thing I would have liked on the GP is a centre line for lining up putts, I have just tried to add one myself but unable to test it out due to a rib injury.

Yeah. I seriously looked at the GP but feel it will be too light to my taste. Honestly. I’d love to be able to try it out but not possible. 

[bluedot]

22 hours ago, oyamtr said:

Never really thought about that.  Thanks for those perspectives.  Do you have a chart for height?  I've seen three or four and they seem somewhat different.  I am 5'8".  I would think that somewhere between 44"-48", but don't know if taller is better than shorter.  I suppose it would be smart to get a taller one and cut it down if necessary.  I watched the Bomar videos on Morning Golf and the utter she is using couldn't be more than 35 or 36".  I would think stooping over would detract from the benefit of using two eyes.

One other thing, I know we use both eyes, but does it matter if your dominant eye (mine is left) is opposite of your dominant hand (mine is right).  When I plum bob, I use my left eye, but putt righty, which I think is part of the reason I suck at traditional putting.  Thanks again for your help.

 

Last question first; I have no idea.  I'm not only left eye dominant, but at this moment in time I'm way past legally blind in my right eye.  (Hoping that will be changing after surgery later this month, but it is what it is.)  IF putting righty while left-eye dominant is a drawback, then it should be much less of one putting side saddle because you reduce parallax error to almost nil.

 

As to the first question, I don't have a chart for height.  When I started putting side saddle, I took each guy's recommendations; first PR Dionne with the GP putter, then Juan Elizondo with the JuanPutt, and finally Bobby Grace.  I ended up liking the putter a bit shorter than their charts, but all of this is personal preference.  I'm 6-1, fwiw, and currently play my F22 at 44".  My best advice is buy the putter longer; you can always cut it down later if you want it shorter.

[oyamtr]

1 hour ago, bluedot said:

 

Last question first; I have no idea.  I'm not only left eye dominant, but at this moment in time I'm way past legally blind in my right eye.  (Hoping that will be changing after surgery later this month, but it is what it is.)  IF putting righty while left-eye dominant is a drawback, then it should be much less of one putting side saddle because you reduce parallax error to almost nil.

 

As to the first question, I don't have a chart for height.  When I started putting side saddle, I took each guy's recommendations; first PR Dionne with the GP putter, then Juan Elizondo with the JuanPutt, and finally Bobby Grace.  I ended up liking the putter a bit shorter than their charts, but all of this is personal preference.  I'm 6-1, fwiw, and currently play my F22 at 44".  My best advice is buy the putter longer; you can always cut it down later if you want it shorter.

Thanks.  Best of luck on your surgery.

[BigEx44]

14 hours ago, bluedot said:

 

Last question first; I have no idea.  I'm not only left eye dominant, but at this moment in time I'm way past legally blind in my right eye.  (Hoping that will be changing after surgery later this month, but it is what it is.)  IF putting righty while left-eye dominant is a drawback, then it should be much less of one putting side saddle because you reduce parallax error to almost nil.

 

As to the first question, I don't have a chart for height.  When I started putting side saddle, I took each guy's recommendations; first PR Dionne with the GP putter, then Juan Elizondo with the JuanPutt, and finally Bobby Grace.  I ended up liking the putter a bit shorter than their charts, but all of this is personal preference.  I'm 6-1, fwiw, and currently play my F22 at 44".  My best advice is buy the putter longer; you can always cut it down later if you want it shorter.

 

I'm 6'0" and my F22 is 46.5 inches.

 

Early on when I was trying to figure out what length might be best; I stood on a green and rolled some balls to the hole using my hand.  Then I noted how bent over I was and I roughly translated that to a putter length.  I found it to be a good starting point and fairly accurate for me.

[marmaduk]

I started side saddle with a 42” and loved the technique but thought the putter was too short so I got an adjustable length side saddle putter. Cheap price to experiment. 
I now own an F22 @ 48” and love the upright putting position. Now both Bryson and I game a 48” club lol. 
 

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/153852806269

[CanPuttWillPutt2]

14 hours ago, marmaduk said:

I started side saddle with a 42” and loved the technique but thought the putter was too short so I got an adjustable length side saddle putter. Cheap price to experiment. 
I now own an F22 @ 48” and love the upright putting position. Now both Bryson and I game a 48” club lol. 
 

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/153852806269

That’s a cool idea. I wish I’d seen that before !!!
 

however I have a used 45 inch STX putter turning up in the next day or so.  I might need to get the lie angle adjusted a little bit at 5 foot 10 and having played around with a 43 inch putter i don’t think I will need anything longer than the 45. 
 

I’m trying to get my settings right before I order a JuanPutt or f22. (Likely JuanPutt due to cost)

 

how tall are you and how upright do you use your f22?

 

The uk have just entered a four week lockdown (courses closed) so I can’t have a play on real greens. 
 

first time I’ve looked forward to putting in about 15 years 😂

Edited November 6, 2020 by CantPuttWontPutt

[oyamtr]

For any of the current side saddlers:  I am starting with a GP at 46.5", which may or may not be too tall for me at 5'8", but as Bluedot said, it is probably better to start tall and cut down.  Anyway, my question:  I understand that the left hand (for righties) is the fulcrum.  Is the left wrist supposed to be stationary and loose to allow the right hand to control speed and distance, or does the left hand play any other part? I think what the left wrist does is called supination, although those terms always confuse me.  Hopefully, the putter will be here today.  Thanks to all.

[marmaduk]

On 11/5/2020 at 10:43 PM, CantPuttWontPutt said:

That’s a cool idea. I wish I’d seen that before !!!
 

however I have a used 45 inch STX putter turning up in the next day or so.  I might need to get the lie angle adjusted a little bit at 5 foot 10 and having played around with a 43 inch putter i don’t think I will need anything longer than the 45. 
 

I’m trying to get my settings right before I order a JuanPutt or f22. (Likely JuanPutt due to cost)

 

how tall are you and how upright do you use your f22?

 

The uk have just entered a four week lockdown (courses closed) so I can’t have a play on real greens. 
 

first time I’ve looked forward to putting in about 15 years 😂

You will be fine at 45”. I’m 6’ but even in a niche style I’m an odd-ball standing so upright. I would say I putt with the shaft at 85*. My tendency is to want the shaft vertical but the f22 is quite large and I find somewhere in between vertical and 80* 

 

13 hours ago, oyamtr said:

For any of the current side saddlers:  I am starting with a GP at 46.5", which may or may not be too tall for me at 5'8", but as Bluedot said, it is probably better to start tall and cut down.  Anyway, my question:  I understand that the left hand (for righties) is the fulcrum.  Is the left wrist supposed to be stationary and loose to allow the right hand to control speed and distance, or does the left hand play any other part? I think what the left wrist does is called supination, although those terms always confuse me.  Hopefully, the putter will be here today.  Thanks to all.

 

Like anything in life it’s more about preference than anything else. Some say left hand knuckles pointing at target but I find my left wrist wants to bow a little and it’s more of a “punch” facing the target with my left (fulcrum) hand. 

Keeping your left hand as loose as possible without having your grip slip will allow you better control with your right hand. This style,IMO, should be all in the lower hand. The upper hand is just an anchor/fulcrum. Also, I believe the upper hand is pronating and not supinating but it’s been a couple decades since I’ve used these words lol. 
 

I think the most important part with this style is to keep your left arm as stationary as possible. I’d never hit a putt FAT until I began experimenting with this style lol. It’s a startling feeling hahah. I find I am prone to moving my height of my left arm when I make long putts (bigger swings) But, you will find if your upper arm is stationary (think left elbow pinned to your ribs) you will not have much issue. 

hope this helps 

[labgolf]

We L.A.B. Golf make a side saddle putter that lots of folks seem to like. Also, there is a small company out of Boise called Bomar Putting Co. Its founder is Billy Bomar who has won the world putting championship a number of times. His daughter runs it and she's awesome.

[Spuggy]

18 hours ago, oyamtr said:

For any of the current side saddlers:  I am starting with a GP at 46.5", which may or may not be too tall for me at 5'8", but as Bluedot said, it is probably better to start tall and cut down.  Anyway, my question:  I understand that the left hand (for righties) is the fulcrum.  Is the left wrist supposed to be stationary and loose to allow the right hand to control speed and distance, or does the left hand play any other part? I think what the left wrist does is called supination, although those terms always confuse me.  Hopefully, the putter will be here today.  Thanks to all.

I use the GP, although I wrap my fulcrum hand round the club I actually grip the club very lightly by pinching it between my thumb pad and my forefinger so my wrist and hand do not move at all in the swing. I think this is important as if you try to move the fulcrum hand I think you are in danger of disturbing the pendulum straight back straight through movement of the club head.

[CanPuttWillPutt2]

On 11/6/2020 at 4:41 AM, marmaduk said:

I started side saddle with a 42” and loved the technique but thought the putter was too short so I got an adjustable length side saddle putter. Cheap price to experiment. 
I now own an F22 @ 48” and love the upright putting position. Now both Bryson and I game a 48” club lol. 
 

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/153852806269

Ok. You guys are killing me!!!

 

Having decided I couldn’t afford an f-22 but then re-read for about the 3rd time all 43 pages of this thread - I’ve decided if I’m going to buy ONE side saddle putter (and only one!!) I might as well get the one the vast majority (from what I can tell) think is the best ?!?!?
 

With import tax and delivery to the UK this is going to be expensive. Now I’ve finished drying my tears, is there anything about the spec I should consider for the F-22?  I assume the a** kicker shaft is the recommendation? (If there is even a choice?) What are your thoughts all?

 

Probably going to have to wait till January to order this to get Christmas out of the way but would appreciate any and all buying advice. 
 

Thanks as always. 
 

urgh. 

 

thanks

 

 

Edited November 9, 2020 by CantPuttWontPutt

[BigEx44]

On 11/7/2020 at 8:26 AM, oyamtr said:

For any of the current side saddlers:  I am starting with a GP at 46.5", which may or may not be too tall for me at 5'8", but as Bluedot said, it is probably better to start tall and cut down.  Anyway, my question:  I understand that the left hand (for righties) is the fulcrum.  Is the left wrist supposed to be stationary and loose to allow the right hand to control speed and distance, or does the left hand play any other part? I think what the left wrist does is called supination, although those terms always confuse me.  Hopefully, the putter will be here today.  Thanks to all.

 

Relative to the left hand grip - yes - loose and stationary (for most SS styles at least).

 

In fact, my left wrist grip is the forefinger and thimb wrapped around the top of the grip.  Remaining 3 fingers barely touching the grip.

[oyamtr]

BE44, thanks.  I think someone else mentioned something similar, but I didn't understand - now I do.  I will give it a try if the effing POS Postal Service ever delivers the one I ordered.

[CanPuttWillPutt2]

Hi Chaps. 
 

On the F22, considering it’s not easy to try these things, is the a** Kicker shaft the default recommendation?
 

on Bobby graces website he states “Note if you order the "a** Kicker Shaft Position" it is a custom order and takes a few extra days to make. ”

 

I wondered why this would be a custom order? does anyone know what the “standard shaft position is” or the general difference is?

 

any advice appreciated. 
 

thanks

 

Matt

[bluedot]

On 11/22/2020 at 4:25 PM, CantPuttWontPutt said:

Hi Chaps. 
 

On the F22, considering it’s not easy to try these things, is the a** Kicker shaft the default recommendation?
 

on Bobby graces website he states “Note if you order the "a** Kicker Shaft Position" it is a custom order and takes a few extra days to make. ”

 

I wondered why this would be a custom order? does anyone know what the “standard shaft position is” or the general difference is?

 

any advice appreciated. 
 

thanks

 

Matt

 

I use the F22 without the AK shaft, fwiw.  I think the "standard shaft position" is a little bit more than a half inch back from the face, and just left of the alignment line.  I don't know where the AK shaft inserts into the F22 head; that may be why it's a custom order, if BG drills the holes in different places.  I would guess, though I don't know this, that he drills out a number of heads at once, and that changing the settings for that process might cause the delay.

 

That said, I think you'll find BG VERY easy to work with, and also will find his production and shipping to be really fast by industry standards.

[Jimi Thing]

Alright, I’ll be in business soon now. I figured I want to go f22 as well and had been scouting the bay for a deal. Finally got one with a** kicker shaft. Only concern is that it has. A 39.5” shaft. I’m 6’1, but Bobby Grace himself recommended earlier that the shaft can be extended. 
 

starting the journey. Building a stance and stroke from scratch. Looking forward to it. 

[bluedot]

22 hours ago, Jimi Thing said:

Alright, I’ll be in business soon now. I figured I want to go f22 as well and had been scouting the bay for a deal. Finally got one with a** kicker shaft. Only concern is that it has. A 39.5” shaft. I’m 6’1, but Bobby Grace himself recommended earlier that the shaft can be extended. 
 

starting the journey. Building a stance and stroke from scratch. Looking forward to it. 

 

Good luck!  You're doing this at the perfect time of year; lots of time to practice indoors on a putting mat, very few  competitions.  Hit a million 4 footers in what Juan Elizondo calls "a pristine environment" until you not only figure out grip and ball position, but until the light comes on that not only do you not have to manipulate the stroke anymore, but that the ball IS starting on your intended line.

 

Watch Randy Haag's videos, watch David Cook's video (7 Days in Utopia), and keep reading here.  IMO, this thread is the foremost discussion and resource on side saddle putting on the planet. 

 

Commit, practice, and enjoy the ride!

[Jimi Thing]

Thanks mr Bluedot. In reality I think you are the one that got me on to this. I’m going to do all the above. Got the first time in 12 years I’m excited about putting. 

[The Pearl]

Jumping back into this thread after a long absence. The discussion of using the F22 close to 90 degrees has caught my eye.

 

So if I am getting this right, basically for those of you using this approach, you are basically attempting to stand the putter straight up and down?

 

Thanks

[bluedot]

16 hours ago, The Pearl said:

Jumping back into this thread after a long absence. The discussion of using the F22 close to 90 degrees has caught my eye.

 

So if I am getting this right, basically for those of you using this approach, you are basically attempting to stand the putter straight up and down?

 

Thanks

 

Not completely vertical, but close?  Significantly more vertical than most other putters, save the GP and maybe the STX, will allow without losing effective sweet spot. 

 

There is something about the way the sole of the F22 is radiused (if that's the right word?) that allows that.   The weird thing, at least to me, is that even other BG putters with the exact same grind on the sole don't seem to work that way.

 

The only thing I have to be careful about it that I line up the putter with the angle I'm going to putt from already set; if I set the putter in a soled position and then tilt it more toward vertical as I step into my stance, I actually move the ball toward the heel of the club just a bit.  I wasn't even aware of that until a buddy pointed it out on the practice green, and it does make a difference.  The MOI of that putter is so crazy-high that it's hard to detect from the strike if you aren't paying attention in the setup.

[The Pearl]

9 hours ago, bluedot said:

 

Not completely vertical, but close?  Significantly more vertical than most other putters, save the GP and maybe the STX, will allow without losing effective sweet spot. 

 

There is something about the way the sole of the F22 is radiused (if that's the right word?) that allows that.   The weird thing, at least to me, is that even other BG putters with the exact same grind on the sole don't seem to work that way.

 

The only thing I have to be careful about it that I line up the putter with the angle I'm going to putt from already set; if I set the putter in a soled position and then tilt it more toward vertical as I step into my stance, I actually move the ball toward the heel of the club just a bit.  I wasn't even aware of that until a buddy pointed it out on the practice green, and it does make a difference.  The MOI of that putter is so crazy-high that it's hard to detect from the strike if you aren't paying attention in the setup.

Thanks Bluedot.  I tried a more vertical approach with the Juan Putt putter, but the putter did not seem to be workable when used close to 90 degrees.  I have not really tried it with the F-22. I have been practicing at the house after I caught up with this thread and the putter seems to work the same.  Geez, what a great putter. I am playing Sunday so I will give it a shot on the practice green and see if I can take it to the course.  Good tip with concerning the aiming fundamental.

[bluedot]

54 minutes ago, The Pearl said:

Thanks Bluedot.  I tried a more vertical approach with the Juan Putt putter, but the putter did not seem to be workable when used close to 90 degrees.  I have not really tried it with the F-22. I have been practicing at the house after I caught up with this thread and the putter seems to work the same.  Geez, what a great putter. I am playing Sunday so I will give it a shot on the practice green and see if I can take it to the course.  Good tip with concerning the aiming fundamental.

 

I love the JuanPutt, and played a lot of good golf with it; it's still my backup putter of choice.  But it does NOT work well without being soled; I even had a phone conversation with Juan Elizondo about this back in 2015 when I first started down the side saddle road.  He actually practiced with it a bit, and then said that it was ok on shorter putts, but that it just didn't work well on longer putts when held vertically with the heel off the ground.

[Ripper212]

I'm thinking of getting back into SS putting over the winter but sold my BG LFI last year. Was too short for me at 39" anyway. Anyone have an extra SS putter that you're willing to part with?

[Jimi Thing]

Question u have about the dimensions of the Juan putt track. Is it a couple of feet long? How much wider is the tracker as the width of the putter head? 
 

and since side saddle promotes straight back straight trough strokes, I assume no curve in the track as a result correct?

 

i’m going to build a track for my f-22 from scratch. 
 

thanks for any insights. 

[Jimi Thing]

Another question I have, anyone been toying around with the different inserts Bobby Grace has available for the F22? I see the grey plastic insert and an aluminium one. Anyone any thoughts on the differences in feel / playability?

 

Thanks

Paul

[CanPuttWillPutt2]

On 11/25/2020 at 1:39 PM, bluedot said:

 

I use the F22 without the AK shaft, fwiw.  I think the "standard shaft position" is a little bit more than a half inch back from the face, and just left of the alignment line.  I don't know where the AK shaft inserts into the F22 head; that may be why it's a custom order, if BG drills the holes in different places.  I would guess, though I don't know this, that he drills out a number of heads at once, and that changing the settings for that process might cause the delay.

 

That said, I think you'll find BG VERY easy to work with, and also will find his production and shipping to be really fast by industry standards.

Thanks for this bluedot. Much appreciated. 
 

I’ll have a chat with Bobby but about which he’d recommend. I have to say it’s a real shame it’s not to possible to try each and see which works. Oh well. Having never putted with a backstryke or putter with anything resembling an AK shaft I’m a little nervous about ordering that. Might stick with standard as it feels like too much of a risk !! 😀. 
 

ive been hitting a million putts at home with my “new” STX. I take both it and my new side saddle putting method on the course for the first time next week (Wednesday) and play my first match with friends on the 6th. I’ve warned them about my new putting approach. 😀

 

I tend to beat them but it’s always extremely close between the three of us. They have said to me in the past “if you could putt you’d be dangerous”. Well, I’m now feeling pretty good, I usually average somewhere around 40 putts in a round so it’s not a very high bar to beat. 😂

 

my handicap is 13, but at 40 putts a round, I’m hoping/planning for this to come down in 2021 putting side saddle. 

 

I’m also excited about putting for the first time in......well.....EVER !!!  Just not being terrified when standing over a short putt will be nice. 

Edited November 29, 2020 by CantPuttWontPutt

[bluedot]

5 hours ago, CantPuttWontPutt said:

Thanks for this bluedot. Much appreciated. 
 

I’ll have a chat with Bobby but about which he’d recommend. I have to say it’s a real shame it’s not to possible to try each and see which works. Oh well. Having never putted with a backstryke or putter with anything resembling an AK shaft I’m a little nervous about ordering that. Might stick with standard as it feels like too much of a risk !! 😀. 
 

ive been hitting a million putts at home with my “new” STX. I take both it and my new side saddle putting method on the course for the first time next week (Wednesday) and play my first match with friends on the 6th. I’ve warned them about my new putting approach. 😀

 

I tend to beat them but it’s always extremely close between the three of us. They have said to me in the past “if you could putt you’d be dangerous”. Well, I’m now feeling pretty good, I usually average somewhere around 40 putts in a round so it’s not a very high bar to beat. 😂

 

my handicap is 13, but at 40 putts a round, I’m hoping/planning for this to come down in 2021 putting side saddle. 

 

I’m also excited about putting for the first time in......well.....EVER !!!  Just not being terrified when standing over a short putt will be nice. 

 

Good luck!

 

This might be a good time to look at Mark Broadie's research if you haven't already; it helps with  perspective on putting.  You aren't going to go out and start making a lot of 20' putts; nobody in the world does that regularly, regardless of how they hold the putter.

 

What IS realistic is far less three putts, which is really the essence of good putting anyway.  As time goes on and your brain translates the putting database you've accumulated from "two-hand conventional" language to "one hand side saddle" language, your lag putting will get MUCH better; not a little better, but MUCH better.  And if you are putting in the work on 4 footers, the moment will come when you realize that you're just flat better than you used to be.

 

As to your buddies:  I've written this many, many times on this thread, but dealing with the reactions of others to side saddle putting is something of a challenge, and one that many of us probably underestimated.  Good players are interested; chops are the ones who sort of go nuts.  If you play with a regular group, they'll get used to it quickly, and if you've been averaging 40 putts per round, they may be rooting for you to improve almost as hard as you are.  Just give it time...

 

Last piece of advice, and again, something I have written here many, many times.  Do NOT turn every putt into a mental referendum on the putting method that you are using.  That wasn't true of conventional putting, and it isn't true of side saddle, either.  Side saddle is a better, easier way to putt a golf ball, but the proof of that is a macro thing, rather than each putt on each day.  You are going to hit crappy putts side saddle because you misread the putt, or because you got the speed completely wrong, or even because you just made a poor stroke.  But I'd bet my house that a year from now you won't be averaging 40 putts a round; I'll guess that 32 will be more like it.  For ANY part of golf, if you are confident of your fundamentals, you stay with them and try to execute better when you hit a bad shot; you don't waffle.  Same with side saddle.