side saddle putters - what putter are you using?

[wolfpack99]

Hi all, been an on/off face on putter for about 12 years.  Currently using a reverse shafted Technica DX-470.  Haven’t seen much mention in this thread about that putter style.  Anyone else ever owned one?

 

I have recently purchased Blast Motion and am having a lot of trouble with increasing loft at impact by around 2-3 degrees.  Anyone have any suggestions about how to get this down.

 

Really liking the feedback from the sensor especially the face rotation back and thru which is usually less than half a degree.

 

 

Edited November 29, 2020 by wolfpack99

[CanPuttWillPutt2]

1 hour ago, bluedot said:

 

Good luck!

 

This might be a good time to look at Mark Broadie's research if you haven't already; it helps with  perspective on putting.  You aren't going to go out and start making a lot of 20' putts; nobody in the world does that regularly, regardless of how they hold the putter.

 

What IS realistic is far less three putts, which is really the essence of good putting anyway.  As time goes on and your brain translates the putting database you've accumulated from "two-hand conventional" language to "one hand side saddle" language, your lag putting will get MUCH better; not a little better, but MUCH better.  And if you are putting in the work on 4 footers, the moment will come when you realize that you're just flat better than you used to be.

 

As to your buddies:  I've written this many, many times on this thread, but dealing with the reactions of others to side saddle putting is something of a challenge, and one that many of us probably underestimated.  Good players are interested; chops are the ones who sort of go nuts.  If you play with a regular group, they'll get used to it quickly, and if you've been averaging 40 putts per round, they may be rooting for you to improve almost as hard as you are.  Just give it time...

 

Last piece of advice, and again, something I have written here many, many times.  Do NOT turn every putt into a mental referendum on the putting method that you are using.  That wasn't true of conventional putting, and it isn't true of side saddle, either.  Side saddle is a better, easier way to putt a golf ball, but the proof of that is a macro thing, rather than each putt on each day.  You are going to hit crappy putts side saddle because you misread the putt, or because you got the speed completely wrong, or even because you just made a poor stroke.  But I'd bet my house that a year from now you won't be averaging 40 putts a round; I'll guess that 32 will be more like it.  For ANY part of golf, if you are confident of your fundamentals, you stay with them and try to execute better when you hit a bad shot; you don't waffle.  Same with side saddle.

thats all great advice bluedot. Thanks. 
 

I’m certainly very interested to get the reactions of friends and fellow competitors!

 

in terms of technique there’s something I wanted to run past you experienced side saddlers.   I’ve been experimenting with a variation on the claw grip and have noticed that if I “loop” my index finger round the club it holds it firmer and is a little less prone to twisting (and therefore putting offline). I’ve attached a photo of the grip and would be interested in any comments or if you have a putting mat, to let me know what you think. I seem to have a little more confidence in the line and can’t think of any downsides currently. I don’t however want to get into a bad habit if this could present other issues I’ve not thought of. 
 

Any feedback gracefully received. 
 

thanks. 

 

 

 

[bluedot]

1 hour ago, CantPuttWontPutt said:

thats all great advice bluedot. Thanks. 
 

I’m certainly very interested to get the reactions of friends and fellow competitors!

 

in terms of technique there’s something I wanted to run past you experienced side saddlers.   I’ve been experimenting with a variation on the claw grip and have noticed that if I “loop” my index finger round the club it holds it firmer and is a little less prone to twisting (and therefore putting offline). I’ve attached a photo of the grip and would be interested in any comments or if you have a putting mat, to let me know what you think. I seem to have a little more confidence in the line and can’t think of any downsides currently. I don’t however want to get into a bad habit if this could present other issues I’ve not thought of. 
 

Any feedback gracefully received. 
 

thanks. 

 

 

 

 

Ok, that's interesting, because I've been trying more or less that same grip for the last couple of weeks since the tournament season ended.

 

I started out using the grip that most people use, which I guess would be the "saw"?  Pretty quickly went to the palm behind the shaft and the index finger running down the shaft for the exact reasons that you mention; I just felt prone to twisting/loss of control from the saw grip, even though that's more or less the position your hand would be in as you walk and swing your arms naturally. 

 

But there's a trade-off, too, with the palm behind, which is the tendency if you aren't concious of it for your hand to rotate a bit to the inside as you come thru, and my feeling was that I was missing more putts to the left than to the right.  Can't prove it; just a feeling...

 

But I also noticed in the house when I was going to practice on the mat that a pencil grip, which is pretty much what your picture shows, is exactly the way I was picking up the putter without thinking about it.  I had already been interested in that grip because of guy I've seen using it in some of the senior tournaments I play; he is a GREAT putter, and just looks completely natural using that grip.  In fact, he even lets the other fingers run down the side of the shaft a bit.

 

So I decided to try it, and as long as I really make sure that I'm keeping the top hand still and just using the bottom hand to putt, it seems to work great; better control than the saw, easier to stay down the line than palm behind.  I've used it for several rounds now, and the last two were really, really good putting rounds. 

 

I had even thought about asking on this thread if anybody else was gripping with the bottom hand this way; just hadn't gotten around to it.  So here goes; does anybody else do this?

[CanPuttWillPutt2]

35 minutes ago, bluedot said:

 

Ok, that's interesting, because I've been trying more or less that same grip for the last couple of weeks since the tournament season ended.

 

I started out using the grip that most people use, which I guess would be the "saw"?  Pretty quickly went to the palm behind the shaft and the index finger running down the shaft for the exact reasons that you mention; I just felt prone to twisting/loss of control from the saw grip, even though that's more or less the position your hand would be in as you walk and swing your arms naturally. 

 

But there's a trade-off, too, with the palm behind, which is the tendency if you aren't concious of it for your hand to rotate a bit to the inside as you come thru, and my feeling was that I was missing more putts to the left than to the right.  Can't prove it; just a feeling...

 

But I also noticed in the house when I was going to practice on the mat that a pencil grip, which is pretty much what your picture shows, is exactly the way I was picking up the putter without thinking about it.  I had already been interested in that grip because of guy I've seen using it in some of the senior tournaments I play; he is a GREAT putter, and just looks completely natural using that grip.  In fact, he even lets the other fingers run down the side of the shaft a bit.

 

So I decided to try it, and as long as I really make sure that I'm keeping the top hand still and just using the bottom hand to putt, it seems to work great; better control than the saw, easier to stay down the line than palm behind.  I've used it for several rounds now, and the last two were really, really good putting rounds. 

 

I had even thought about asking on this thread if anybody else was gripping with the bottom hand this way; just hadn't gotten around to it.  So here goes; does anybody else do this?

 

Wow ! That is interesting. Thanks. I think I’ll keep persisting with this for the time being then!

 

as bluedot asked, if there’s anyone else on here using this grip (or has used it) it would be great to know !

 

thanks

 

 

[marmaduk]

Originally got this putter at 48” because I prefer a more upright stance (it’s easier on my back) but after a full year of sidesaddle I have found that my anchor hand is inconsistent and sometimes negatively effects the putt. So, I’ve been experimenting with a new grip on my anchor hand. I use the bottom of the top split grip and a finger-loop to create more of a pendulum free flowing action. Its working quite well. Even in a niche category I have to be different lol 

[bluedot]

On 11/30/2020 at 8:09 PM, marmaduk said:

Originally got this putter at 48” because I prefer a more upright stance (it’s easier on my back) but after a full year of sidesaddle I have found that my anchor hand is inconsistent and sometimes negatively effects the putt. So, I’ve been experimenting with a new grip on my anchor hand. I use the bottom of the top split grip and a finger-loop to create more of a pendulum free flowing action. Its working quite well. Even in a niche category I have to be different lol 

 

Interesting!

[bluedot]

On 12/2/2020 at 9:01 AM, bluedot said:

 

Interesting!

 

I've used this grip my last two rounds, and I REALLY like it! Very stable, seems easier to both keep the top of the club still as a fulcrum, and seems to make it easier to use the saw grip on the bottom hand, which has been an issue for me all along.  Just extremely easy to get the ball online, even for side saddle. 

[CanPuttWillPutt2]

1 hour ago, bluedot said:

 

I've used this grip my last two rounds, and I REALLY like it! Very stable, seems easier to both keep the top of the club still as a fulcrum, and seems to make it easier to use the saw grip on the bottom hand, which has been an issue for me all along.  Just extremely easy to get the ball online, even for side saddle. 

Might give this a go myself then !!

[CanPuttWillPutt2]

My first competitive round putting side saddle today. No referendum on putting for me, I putted really really well. 33 puts which is WELL below my usual but better than that, I had a number of pressure four footers today which i would have missed before (guaranteed). All went in the middle of the hole.  I actually look forward to the putts, with takes the pressure of the rest of the game.   If I miss a putt it’s because I’ve not got the pace right or misread the green, NOT because I’ve hit it offline which was my BIG issue when putting conventionally. My friends even admitted the style “didn’t look that odd” which I’ll take as a compliment. 😂

 

so thanks again to everyone here. I’m well happy.  Now I just need to sort out my drives and irons 😀

[marmaduk]

21 hours ago, bluedot said:

 

I've used this grip my last two rounds, and I REALLY like it! Very stable, seems easier to both keep the top of the club still as a fulcrum, and seems to make it easier to use the saw grip on the bottom hand, which has been an issue for me all along.  Just extremely easy to get the ball online, even for side saddle. 

🙏

[bluedot]

On 12/6/2020 at 12:17 PM, CantPuttWontPutt said:

My first competitive round putting side saddle today. No referendum on putting for me, I putted really really well. 33 puts which is WELL below my usual but better than that, I had a number of pressure four footers today which i would have missed before (guaranteed). All went in the middle of the hole.  I actually look forward to the putts, with takes the pressure of the rest of the game.   If I miss a putt it’s because I’ve not got the pace right or misread the green, NOT because I’ve hit it offline which was my BIG issue when putting conventionally. My friends even admitted the style “didn’t look that odd” which I’ll take as a compliment. 😂

 

so thanks again to everyone here. I’m well happy.  Now I just need to sort out my drives and irons 😀

 

Wonderful; congratulations!

 

 

[J_Tizzle]

Hey all, I kinda lost getting updates on this thread with the forum switch over.

 

Still side saddling, still putting the best I ever have.  Also got an alert on eBay that someone was selling a Bobby Grace F-35 "Let's Face It" and since it was different, I had to buy it (plus BG makes THE BEST side saddle on the market, hands down).  It is in transit as we speak and expected to arrive on 12/14, so I'll post some pictures/thoughts when it arrives.

[marmaduk]

Do you use a line on your ball?

 

Just curious how many of us use an alignment stripe on the ball when putting side saddle. I’ve found that side saddle has allowed me to be more instinctual with my putting and I tend to fight the line. 
 

Previous to sidesaddle I putted for two years while looking at the target instead of at the ball. I found that my distance control was much better and my overall putting was getting better. It still wasn’t great which is why I switched to sidesaddle.
 

It’s taken me nearly one year of sidesaddle putting to become comfortable with looking at the target while I putt again. 
 

Just curious as to everyone’s preference

 

Cheers, Jeff

[J_Tizzle]

18 hours ago, marmaduk said:

Do you use a line on your ball?

 

Just curious how many of us use an alignment stripe on the ball when putting side saddle. I’ve found that side saddle has allowed me to be more instinctual with my putting and I tend to fight the line. 
 

Previous to sidesaddle I putted for two years while looking at the target instead of at the ball. I found that my distance control was much better and my overall putting was getting better. It still wasn’t great which is why I switched to sidesaddle.
 

It’s taken me nearly one year of sidesaddle putting to become comfortable with looking at the target while I putt again. 
 

Just curious as to everyone’s preference

 

Cheers, Jeff

 

Yep, I am very exact on where my line on the ball is set up.  I kind of do what BDC does and use the shaft of my putter to track it on my intended line.  If I do that, I just focus on taking the putter straight back along that line.  It doesn't take out the feel of it for me, but it just allows me to take one variable and then focus on the feel.  It's kind of funny, when I'm putting everything out, I can't just step up and tap in an 18" putt, I have to line up the line.

 

As for looking while I putt, my issue with the short putter was i couldn't (for whatever reason) keep my head still and looking at the ball until my putter hit it, but with the side saddle it isn't really an issue for whatever reason.

[bluedot]

I was never able to use a line when I putted conventionally; no matter what I did, the line looked not only tilted toward me, but aimed left of the hole.  Even though I knew neither of those things were true, it was just too distracting.

 

Fast forward to 2015 when I started putting side saddle, and ended up on the phone with Juan Elizondo (the JuanPutt).  He asked me if I had used the line when I putted conventionally, and I told him I hadn't been able to do it.  He said that approx. 60% of golfers are that way; it's part of parallax error.  He went on to say, "You'll be able to use it putting side saddle, but you won't need to." 

 

And that's been exactly the case for me; the least of my worries putting side saddle now is getting the ball started on the line I've picked.  Along those lines, one of the magazines just ran an article a couple of months back and asked pros if they used the line; I think three of the four they asked said they didn't because it made them too focused on the line and not enough on speed.  Rahm was one, DJ was another, but I can't remember the rest.

 

I'll mention this, too.  I play a fair amount in the off-season with three women that are out on either the LPGA or Symetra tours.  I've never considered myself to be an especially good green reader, and in the last couple of years, I've had a ton of eye trouble coming out of a partially detached retina in my right eye.  I asked them if they ever played with anybody who they just thought was a GREAT green reader, and all three said no, BUT that they do play with other pros who are incredible at never getting the speed wrong.

 

Granted that if you're a pro, you're probably a superior green reader anyway, I thought that was instructive, at least to me, and it goes along with Broadie's research about putting.  Once I get outside 10', my chances of making the putt are under 50% anyway, so I want a tap-in for my next putt, and that's all about speed.  Getting too focused on the line, FOR ME, is a bad thing, and using the line, especially on longer putts, does exactly that.  If I get the speed right, and the line wrong, my next putt is likely to be makeable; if I get the speed wrong, I could have anything left!

 

Long way of saying, No, I don't use the line...

[PreppySlapCut]

Got hot with my GP on some winter greens in NJ today.  50” might be a touch too long, but holding it at 90* and standing more upright appears to work better for me.

[Jimi Thing]

Really excited here. Received my F22 repaired yesterday. Been rolling it on a mat indoors yesterday and took it out to the practice green today. Did some range and chipping in between but went to the green 3 times total and had a great time. That in itself is huge for me. 
 

tough to not be results focused when on the green. But today was promising to say the least. I actually think I can become a good putter with this. 
 

speed control was decent to good out of the gates. Short putts at least as good as regular putting. I see u can really rely on the line on my ball. I use it like I did conventional and once I line up my putter, the line is taken out of the equation. Speed is the only thing left to focus on. 
 

I stare the hole down. Watch my ball and go. 
 

I have some questions for this group. 1. How is your backstroke? I notice that if I don’t think about it, this becomes a pendulum motion. Back and through fairly comparable. Main issue is that my strike is less consistent. Looking at GP putting gentleman, he promotes short back, long through. Striking the ball well and keeping the face square through impact is easier. But it is more of a forced motion. 
 

2. Very curious to your set up. Ball position irt your right foot. Position of your head (right eye) In relation to the ball. Is your right eye directly over it or ahead of the ball? Position of your right shoulder joint in relation to the ball. 
 

[bluedot]

14 hours ago, Jimi Thing said:

Really excited here. Received my F22 repaired yesterday. Been rolling it on a mat indoors yesterday and took it out to the practice green today. Did some range and chipping in between but went to the green 3 times total and had a great time. That in itself is huge for me. 
 

tough to not be results focused when on the green. But today was promising to say the least. I actually think I can become a good putter with this. 
 

speed control was decent to good out of the gates. Short putts at least as good as regular putting. I see u can really rely on the line on my ball. I use it like I did conventional and once I line up my putter, the line is taken out of the equation. Speed is the only thing left to focus on. 
 

I stare the hole down. Watch my ball and go. 
 

I have some questions for this group. 1. How is your backstroke? I notice that if I don’t think about it, this becomes a pendulum motion. Back and through fairly comparable. Main issue is that my strike is less consistent. Looking at GP putting gentleman, he promotes short back, long through. Striking the ball well and keeping the face square through impact is easier. But it is more of a forced motion. 
 

2. Very curious to your set up. Ball position irt your right foot. Position of your head (right eye) In relation to the ball. Is your right eye directly over it or ahead of the ball? Position of your right shoulder joint in relation to the ball. 
 

 

1. For ANY putting stroke, a fatal flaw is decelerating; long backstroke, pop stroke, short follow thru.  When you do that, the chances of the path of the face being square to the target line at contact are greatly reduced; side saddle is no different.  That said, I think it's easier to avoid and/or correct a pop stroke with side saddle than with conventional, if only because there are fewer variables in the first place.  With all due respect, I'm going to disagree about the term "forced motion"; to me, nothing could be more natural than the arm swing in side saddle putting.  It's the way our arms move not only in a bunch of other activities, but even when we walk.  My guess is that what you are perceiving as "forced" is just the inherent difficulty of fully releasing the club, which is a problem with ANY swing change, even the full swing.

 

2.  This is a highly individual matter, I think.  Most side saddle putters are going to address the ball in a similar position relative to their right foot, maybe 6-12" out front?  Some of the videos you see, like the ones with the GP putter if I remember correctly, will advocate leaning to the right so that the head is behind the ball, but FOR ME, that's never felt completely natural and comfortable, and doesn't seem necessary anyway.  Free throw shooter, bowlers, dart throwers, etc, don't typically have their head directly behind the object being moved, simply because their shoulders and arms are out to the side by several inches.   Again, speaking only for myself, I also don't feel comfortable with my head/eyes directly over the ball, simply because it takes away the advantage of binocular vision.

The right shoulder is another matter, though; that's where my arm attaches, so the more that's directly behind the ball, the more natural the arm swing ought to be.

[CanPuttWillPutt2]

Hi

 

Has anyone here used a Bobby Grace Lucky 7 side saddle putter?  It looks like it would be great for upright putting and I quite like the look of the design.  I’d be interested to hear if anyone has any experience of it. 
 

thanks

 

[The Natural]

I use the GP putter and it seems to have one flaw that really bothers me and I wonder if others noticed it and if it bothers you too. The flaw is that the center of the shaft is not lined up with the center of the club face. Most center shafted putters have the shaft enter the head slightly toward the heel so that the shaft points toward the sweet spot.  The GP putter shaft enters directly at the center top of the head and misses the sweet spot toward the toe. This means that when holding the putter vertical, if I swing the center of the shaft directly through the center of the ball, I miss the sweet spot and the hit doesn't feel or come off as well.  I have to aim slightly off the center of the shaft to get the best hit.

 

Here is an illustration showing what I'm talking about.  The small circle is the center of the clubface and I've drawn a line down the center of the shaft to illustrate how far apart they are.
 

 

 

[rexroh]

Yes I have noticed this as well. I used the GP putter for a while but it never seemed to be right at times. Then I saw what you have described.  As well mine is not face balanced as I expected it to be.  It is not far off but not perfectly face balanced.  

[marmaduk]

I’ve never used a GP putter before but his whole deal is to hold the shaft vertically which in this picture you are not. If the shaft was vertical the line would go through the Center of the ball. 
ive always struggled with this aspect of side saddle. Holding it vertical makes the strike easier and more pendulous but Holding it vertical means the heal is off the ground and the small amount of loft will point the ball slightly to the right for right handed putters. Vertical side saddle causes a smaller sweet spot on the putter face. This is why I have adapted a method of only going vertical with short ~5’ putts and I flatten the sole on anything longer. 
 

Just a thought 

Edited January 2, 2021 by marmaduk

[The Natural]

I do hold the putter vertical when I putt, that was just a picture I found.

 

I agree with you about loft.  Sidesaddle putters should have zero loft or the face will point to the right when vertical. The GP putter has 3 degrees of loft.  I see the Bomar putters have zero loft according to their website which is appealing.  Does anyone know if the BG F-22 has loft?

[rexroh]

What I found with the GP putter is that it had a very slight heel hang, not toe hang or face balanced.  It was not bad but not centred.

[Spuggy]

On 1/2/2021 at 12:57 PM, The Natural said:

I use the GP putter and it seems to have one flaw that really bothers me and I wonder if others noticed it and if it bothers you too. The flaw is that the center of the shaft is not lined up with the center of the club face. Most center shafted putters have the shaft enter the head slightly toward the heel so that the shaft points toward the sweet spot.  The GP putter shaft enters directly at the center top of the head and misses the sweet spot toward the toe. This means that when holding the putter vertical, if I swing the center of the shaft directly through the center of the ball, I miss the sweet spot and the hit doesn't feel or come off as well.  I have to aim slightly off the center of the shaft to get the best hit.

 

Here is an illustration showing what I'm talking about.  The small circle is the center of the clubface and I've drawn a line down the center of the shaft to illustrate how far apart they are.
 

 

 

As previously stated the shaft is not vertical in the photo, hang it vertically and you hit the sweet spot, can not comment on the loft aiming issue other than to say I've never noticed it.

[Spuggy]

Apart from the GP putter does anyone know of another brand of side saddle putter that is designed to be used vertically, as to me this seems critical to take full advantage of the SS method, eg pendulum stroke and eyes directly over the line of the putt.

[Spuggy]

On 1/3/2021 at 1:49 AM, rexroh said:

What I found with the GP putter is that it had a very slight heel hang, not toe hang or face balanced.  It was not bad but not centred.

I noticed this and tried adding lead tape to one side until it face balanced, didn't notice any difference in my putting so I took it off.

[PreppySlapCut]

I’m going to say that the GP putter’s sweet spot being slightly toe side actually helps when you’re putting with the shaft vertical.  With the toe down, it’s actually tougher to hit the middle of the face because it’s raised.  

[Spuggy]

To other GP users, do you use the short back long follow through that Monsieur Dionne uses? I feel I putt better with a slightly longer backswing it stops me trying to force it and lose rhythm, but oddly I feel compelled to keep trying Mr Dionnes style!

[CanPuttWillPutt2]

Ok. I finally gave in. Despite lockdown making me unsure when we’ll even be playing again,  I have now FINALLY ordered my Bobby Grace f22 with a standard centre shaft. 45 inches (I’m 5 foot 10). 
 

Having only been side saddling for a few months I have loved playing with my STX but the face is just too soft for me on the slower UK greens (kept leaving putts short and for longer putts you nearly had to take a full swing at them 😀).  That and I occasionally jabbed the right side of the STX into the green when putting more upright. 
 

anyyyyyway,  f22 should be here in a few days. Will spend the rest of lockdown getting used to the feel on the carpet !!! 
 

Quite excited.