side saddle putters - what putter are you using?

[bluedot]

On 1/5/2021 at 7:29 AM, Spuggy said:

Apart from the GP putter does anyone know of another brand of side saddle putter that is designed to be used vertically, as to me this seems critical to take full advantage of the SS method, eg pendulum stroke and eyes directly over the line of the putt.

 

I think this is thin ice because of the way the rules governing lie angles are written. 

 

The rules say that straight part of the shaft has at least 10* off vertical, but there is an additional statement that says that IF the putter head is designed to be held vertically that the shaft might have to be more off of vertical, I think up to as much as 25*.  

 

This is where Dechambeau's side saddle putter ran afoul of the rules several years ago; he was holding it vertically, and the heel was NOT noticeably off the ground.  I thought is was probably non-conforming when I saw it, and I can't imagine that a guy as into his equipment as BDC is didn't know that.  And sure enough, it was ruled non-conforming a couple of weeks later. 

 

If the GP is held vertically, the heel IS off the ground, but the head is so small that it isn't much.  If the head of a putter gets bigger, the difficulty with holding it vertically obviously increases.

[bluedot]

On 1/7/2021 at 12:42 AM, Spuggy said:

To other GP users, do you use the short back long follow through that Monsieur Dionne uses? I feel I putt better with a slightly longer backswing it stops me trying to force it and lose rhythm, but oddly I feel compelled to keep trying Mr Dionnes style!

 

I don't think this is a side saddle issue; it is ALL putting!  One of the only things that ever goes wrong for me putting side saddle lapsing into a "pop" stroke instead of taking the putter head down the line.  But I did EXACTLY the same thing when I putted conventionally; I had a tendency to decel, and I didn't become aware of it until I realized that I was missing to either side on straight putts. 

 

If you take a long backswing, your brain knows it and it is going to limit the follow thru because you are otherwise going to hit the ball too far.  Conversely, if your last thought is to take the putter down the line, then your brain will limit the backstroke for the same reason.  Same length stroke, very different results, at least of me.  It's the same thing as you focus on a landing spot instead of the hole when you chip; otherwise, the backswing gets too long and disaster happens.

Edited January 12, 2021 by bluedot

[willwagner]

I've made it through a whole year of side saddle putting and decided to take the plunge and buy a BG F-22.  Given that I can't try it in advance, I'm struggling to decide between the a** kicker shaft and a traditional center shaft. Any advice which shaft they like better? 

 

Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread -- it's an amazing resource.

[marmaduk]

I own the a** kicker shaft in my F22 and like it quite a bit. I first tried a shaft like that with an Odyssey Back Stryke. Not side saddle obviously but enjoyed it. Since I can’t compare with or without I would hazard to suggest that it doesn’t make much of any difference at all. Either choice you would adapt to well enough. The magic is first in side saddle style then in the head design then in the putter insert and by the time you come to the shaft just choose what looks good to your eye. If you are unsure of the shaft go normal. 
 

Just my fleeting thoughts. 
 

[CanPuttWillPutt2]

4 hours ago, willwagner said:

I've made it through a whole year of side saddle putting and decided to take the plunge and buy a BG F-22.  Given that I can't try it in advance, I'm struggling to decide between the a** kicker shaft and a traditional center shaft. Any advice which shaft they like better? 

 

Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread -- it's an amazing resource.

 

I had exactly the same challenge. 

 

for background I spoke to Bobby about this and 90% plus choose the a** kicker (but that’s how it’s marketed I guess) - I didn’t ask “which do you think is best?” but he did say “it depends on what you’re used to” ?!?!???!  And that “both are amazing” 😀

I had the same issue that without trying it I had no idea which is best for me. I guess as the comment above it’ll come down to personal preference. 
 

ive never used a putter with this style so I went for the centre shafted option.  Fundamentally I didn’t want to spend hundreds of dollars on a style of shaft I’d never tried. 

 

I don’t think either is the wrong or right option unless someone comes in here and states they have tried both and there is a clear difference and that would still be opinion only?

 

I think both options are pretty awesome. You have to just go with your gut or wait till you get more responses on here to help you with the decision. 

I hope I made the right decision for me🙄. 
 

mines being delivered this week but I can’t use it on a course for weeks due to full lockdown here in the UK.  

 

 

 

 

[willwagner]

That's essentially the advice bobby grace gave me via an email exchange:  if you are debating the shaft just do the traditional center shaft.  That being said, I don't find the a** kicker shaft distracting or off-putting so it's been harder for me to decide especially for a $500 purchase where i want to get everything right.

[CanPuttWillPutt2]

2 hours ago, willwagner said:

That's essentially the advice bobby grace gave me via an email exchange:  if you are debating the shaft just do the traditional center shaft.  That being said, I don't find the a** kicker shaft distracting or off-putting so it's been harder for me to decide especially for a $500 purchase where i want to get everything right.

 

Completely understand. I get a massive import charge so it’s even more expensive for me. 
 

Don’t rush it. Be happy with your decision knowing either one is sound.  
 

Such a shame it’s so hard to try these out first !!! Let us know which you decide !! 😀

 

 

[Cactus Jack]

I started side saddle putting just over three years ago. During that time I have tried all the common putters and many obscure ones too. I’ve used everything from customized long putters, left hand reverse shaft models, to custom builds. I quickly adopted the vertical pendulum stroke vs the angled approach the Bobby Grace putters promote. In doing so I was able to zero in on the best putters for my game. 
 

Without question, the best side saddle putter I’ve ever used is one most don’t know about. The putter is the Matzie Golf Charles Owens Slim Jim putter. The Slim Jim was the original broomstick putter and made in limited quantities back in the early 80’s. The head profile is perfect in every way. Perfect alignment, perfect weight, perfect balance, perfect sole, perfect feel. Matzie made a few models, but the original, and the Whopper, are side saddle putting heaven. The Whopper is especially rare and I’ve only found 1 in 3 years of OCD searching. 
 

If the Slim Jim isn’t your style I highly recommend Holloway Force Focus putters. They are a small machine shop in PA which specializes in side saddle putters. They offer several models and are built to order. One thing that makes Holloway unique is their putters have zero loft, which is perfect for side saddle putting. I really like their products and for verticals pendulum swingers like me, their products are some of the best. Also, they are inexpensive but very high quality. Overall, Holloway offers incredible value. 
 

In my opinion the Slim Jim is unrivaled, and nothing else on the market challenges Holloway. Check them out, they are the best I’ve tried, and I’ve tried them all. 

[marmaduk]

It’s almost a sin to make a post like that without pictures or at least a link to follow. 

[Cactus Jack]

21 minutes ago, marmaduk said:

It’s almost a sin to make a post like that without pictures or at least a link to follow. 

 

Below are a few pics. The Slim Jim profile is so good. It's very low profile so when you move the shaft to vertical the sweet spot is perfectly aligned. For the number folks, the Holloway's have the best engineering specs of any side saddle putter I've used. 

 

I haven't read the link rules, but a quick google of Holloway Side Saddle putters brings them up. For the record, I'm in no way affiliated with Holloway. I'm just a happy customer. 

[Spuggy]

Love the look of these, I would order one tomorrow, unfortunately they do not ship abroad.

[BigEx44]

On 1/12/2021 at 9:52 PM, willwagner said:

I've made it through a whole year of side saddle putting and decided to take the plunge and buy a BG F-22.  Given that I can't try it in advance, I'm struggling to decide between the a** kicker shaft and a traditional center shaft. Any advice which shaft they like better? 

 

Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread -- it's an amazing resource.

 

One guy's experience:

I originally had an F22 with the traditional shaft - and didn't like it (I returned it)

Eventually came back to the F22 with the AK shaft and now love it - and its been my "go to" SS putter for the last 3 years.

Mileage may vary....

[CanPuttWillPutt2]

43 minutes ago, BigEx44 said:

 

One guy's experience:

I originally had an F22 with the traditional shaft - and didn't like it (I returned it)

Eventually came back to the F22 with the AK shaft and now love it - and its been my "go to" SS putter for the last 3 years.

Mileage may vary....

So interesting that different people prefer different versions. I think bluedot uses the standard shaft though don’t know if he’s ever tried the AK?

 

I am however surprised you found such a difference in the two shafts ? How would you describe that difference?

 

god I hope I like my centre shafted version. Guess I’ll find out in a few days 😳. 

 

 

[cmporto10]

Bought one of the Halloway’s last night based on @Cactus Jack review. I was interested in the Bomar but didn’t really want to spend $300+ on an experiment. The Holloway seems to have similar specs at roughly 1/3 the cost so it was a no brainer.  

[Cactus Jack]

2 minutes ago, cmporto10 said:

Bought one of the Halloway’s last night based on @Cactus Jack review. I was interested in the Bomar but didn’t really want to spend $300+ on an experiment. The Holloway seems to have similar specs at roughly 1/3 the cost so it was a no brainer.  

Which model did you order? let us know how you like it.
 

The CNC milling is great and the pressure fit weights are an interesting touch. You can definitely tell the product is well engineered and produced by a high level machine shop.

 

Here’s another example of their thoughtful design, the toe and heal have the maximum allowed 10* relief. As such, with the shaft installed at 80*, when you play vertical the toe isn’t grabbing and everything aligns perfectly. 

[bluedot]

50 minutes ago, Cactus Jack said:

Which model did you order? let us know how you like it.
 

The CNC milling is great and the pressure fit weights are an interesting touch. You can definitely tell the product is well engineered and produced by a high level machine shop.

 

Here’s another example of their thoughtful design, the toe and heal have the maximum allowed 10* relief. As such, with the shaft installed at 80*, when you play vertical the toe isn’t grabbing and everything aligns perfectly. 

 

I was not aware of the Holloway putters; VERY interesting, so thank you for posting.

 

I've looked really carefully at the sizes and weights of the Holloway models.  They are somewhat lighter and smaller than the F22; the size is more comparable to the GP than the BG's. 

 

Out of curiosity, which head design do you use?  You said in your first post that you had used "all the common putters"; could you go more into detail on this?  I'm especially curious about how you might compare the Holloway putters to ones I might have used, like the GP, so help a brother out and list some of the ones you've used and how the Holloway's compare. 🙂

[Cactus Jack]

In the Holloway line I own both the Force Focus and the Backbone. For $100 you're getting the most thoughtfully engineered vertical putting stroke side saddle putter I could find. These suckers are milled from solid aluminum, have brass weighting, all powder coated, and designed and built by a local small business. 

 

I have both a Bobby Grace F22 with the a** Kicker shaft and GP putter. The F22 is not compatible for my stroke. I've never been comfortable with the angled shaft position. I'm a vertical guy only. The GP putter is great. However, for me the 3* of loft seems like an oversight which theoretically encourages a right miss. For a right eye dominant player side saddle putting encourages a right miss already, and my thinking is the loft would only make it worse. Both excellent putters, just not for me. 

 

Regarding weight and size, it all comes down to your stroke. For my stroke, I want a compact head with a nicely contoured sole. I can not play a putter with straight or sharp soles as the toe snags the grass. A nice round leading edge and contoured sole is very important to me. Because of this the Bobby Grace, and similar putters, don't work for me. The heads are simply too large for my vertical stroke. They are not designed to play that way and are meant for a different player. In my opinion weight is subjective. Find something that feels good to you, and go for it. Find something in the meat of the bell curve and give it a shot. 

 

Gosh...off the top of my head here are a few putters in the collection: 

 

- Matzie Slim Jim: This is my gamer. There is zero science incorporated into the head, it's essentially a small flat piece of heavy brass. The putter has awesome alignment lines, and feels stunning. In my opinion the shaft is where the magic happens. The shaft is a 70's - 80's skinny ski pole style. Compared to todays shaft I'm convinced it plays much less stiff, which to me increases the feel. Also, I think it plays lighter than todays shafts so you can feel the head through the entire stroke. It's the best $35 I've spent in my life. Oh yeah, the bottom hand grip is a very thin leather wrap, which is just incredible. The feel and touch is more precise than any other putter I've tried. I have a special connection with the putter, and it shouldn't be as good as it is. 

 

- Positive Putter TLB: Awesome family run company which pioneered side saddle putting. In fact, Dave Pelz mentions them in the Putting Bible. A unique feature of the putter is its target line balanced similar to Edel or Directed Force and swings in a perfect pendulum. 

 

- Reeso VTX: Side saddle aficionados will hunt this one down. However, if your stroke is vertical, I'd say pass. The head is very bulky, the sole is straight and sharp, it's far from an ideal design. With that said, it has interchangeable weights, lie angle can be adjusted. As such, it might have been ahead of its time. 

 

- Rosemark Krutch: Interesting design and good feel. However, the forward center shaft location impedes aim and increases twist/torque on off center strikes. Similar to Reeso the head is bulky and the design is better suited for non-vertical strokes. 

 

- L2 Latteral Line: Monstrosity 🙂 . 

 

- Ice Cube: Monstrosity 🙂 . 

 

- Golfsmith Long John: I love this putter. The sole profile of the putter is perfect for side saddle putting. The design and specs are not intended for side saddle, but something about this head just works. It's not a gamer, but it is one I pick up from time to time. Can't put my finger on it, but I enjoy it. 

 

- Heater III Left Hand Reverse: Interesting setup and if you're an angled stroke putter, I'd give this a try. You take a left hand head and shaft it up with a right hand double bend shaft. There used to be a few guys on the Bay who made them. The primary benefit of the left hand reverse is you can properly sole the club. No more worries about loft, you simply stroke it and the ball responds similar to all other putters. Also, and this is the biggest benefit, the design gives you plenty of room between the head and your leg. You don't need to do the lean forward angled position as much. It was an interesting experiment, but one that didn't stick. 

[bluedot]

33 minutes ago, Cactus Jack said:

In the Holloway line I own both the Force Focus and the Backbone. For $100 you're getting the most thoughtfully engineered vertical putting stroke side saddle putter I could find. These suckers are milled from solid aluminum, have brass weighting, all powder coated, and designed and built by a local small business. 

 

I have both a Bobby Grace F22 with the a** Kicker shaft and GP putter. The F22 is not compatible for my stroke. I've never been comfortable with the angled shaft position. I'm a vertical guy only. The GP putter is great. However, for me the 3* of loft seems like an oversight which theoretically encourages a right miss. For a right eye dominant player side saddle putting encourages a right miss already, and my thinking is the loft would only make it worse. Both excellent putters, just not for me. 

 

Regarding weight and size, it all comes down to your stroke. For my stroke, I want a compact head with a nicely contoured sole. I can not play a putter with straight or sharp soles as the toe snags the grass. A nice round leading edge and contoured sole is very important to me. Because of this the Bobby Grace, and similar putters, don't work for me. The heads are simply too large for my vertical stroke. They are not designed to play that way and are meant for a different player. In my opinion weight is subjective. Find something that feels good to you, and go for it. Find something in the meat of the bell curve and give it a shot. 

 

Gosh...off the top of my head here are a few putters in the collection: 

 

- Matzie Slim Jim: This is my gamer. There is zero science incorporated into the head, it's essentially a small flat piece of heavy brass. The putter has awesome alignment lines, and feels stunning. In my opinion the shaft is where the magic happens. The shaft is a 70's - 80's skinny ski pole style. Compared to todays shaft I'm convinced it plays much less stiff, which to me increases the feel. Also, I think it plays lighter than todays shafts so you can feel the head through the entire stroke. It's the best $35 I've spent in my life. Oh yeah, the bottom hand grip is a very thin leather wrap, which is just incredible. The feel and touch is more precise than any other putter I've tried. I have a special connection with the putter, and it shouldn't be as good as it is. 

 

- Positive Putter TLB: Awesome family run company which pioneered side saddle putting. In fact, Dave Pelz mentions them in the Putting Bible. A unique feature of the putter is its target line balanced similar to Edel or Directed Force and swings in a perfect pendulum. 

 

- Reeso VTX: Side saddle aficionados will hunt this one down. However, if your stroke is vertical, I'd say pass. The head is very bulky, the sole is straight and sharp, it's far from an ideal design. With that said, it has interchangeable weights, lie angle can be adjusted. As such, it might have been ahead of its time. 

 

- Rosemark Krutch: Interesting design and good feel. However, the forward center shaft location impedes aim and increases twist/torque on off center strikes. Similar to Reeso the head is bulky and the design is better suited for non-vertical strokes. 

 

- L2 Latteral Line: Monstrosity 🙂 . 

 

- Ice Cube: Monstrosity 🙂 . 

 

- Golfsmith Long John: I love this putter. The sole profile of the putter is perfect for side saddle putting. The design and specs are not intended for side saddle, but something about this head just works. It's not a gamer, but it is one I pick up from time to time. Can't put my finger on it, but I enjoy it. 

 

- Heater III Left Hand Reverse: Interesting setup and if you're an angled stroke putter, I'd give this a try. You take a left hand head and shaft it up with a right hand double bend shaft. There used to be a few guys on the Bay who made them. The primary benefit of the left hand reverse is you can properly sole the club. No more worries about loft, you simply stroke it and the ball responds similar to all other putters. Also, and this is the biggest benefit, the design gives you plenty of room between the head and your leg. You don't need to do the lean forward angled position as much. It was an interesting experiment, but one that didn't stick. 

 

Fascinating; thanks for taking the time to post this!

 

So would you compare the Holloway, at least in terms of size and weight, to the GP minus the loft?  Is that an oversimplification?

[CanPuttWillPutt2]

3 hours ago, cmporto10 said:

Bought one of the Halloway’s last night based on @Cactus Jack review. I was interested in the Bomar but didn’t really want to spend $300+ on an experiment. The Holloway seems to have similar specs at roughly 1/3 the cost so it was a no brainer.  

Please report back to the group 😀. 
 

thanks !

[Cactus Jack]

1 hour ago, bluedot said:

 

Fascinating; thanks for taking the time to post this!

 

So would you compare the Holloway, at least in terms of size and weight, to the GP minus the loft?  Is that an oversimplification?

 

In my opinion the putters don't really compare. For example, the GP putter is stainless steel, 400g, zero weighting, 3* of loft, with a rounded sole profile. Holloway's are aluminum, generally well over 400g, do have weighting which theoretically increases MOI, and 0* loft, and comes with a more square sole profile. If it matters to you, I don't know where the GP is made, but Holloway's are made in the US, and I believe ~$125 cheaper. 

Edited January 18, 2021 by Cactus Jack

[Cactus Jack]

For anyone that's interested in the Slim Jim putter, please take a moment and read the article about Mr. Charles Owens. Simply put, this man served his country, broke through race barriers, played professionally, designed a one of a kind putter...he has an awesome story. 

 

Check it out: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/19/sports/golf/charles-owens-dead-pro-golfer-who-devised-long-putter.html

[bluedot]

2 hours ago, Cactus Jack said:

 

In my opinion the putters don't really compare. For example, the GP putter is stainless steel, 400g, zero weighting, 3* of loft, with a rounded sole profile. Holloway's are aluminum, generally well over 400g, do have weighting which theoretically increases MOI, and 0* loft, and comes with a more square sole profile. If it matters to you, I don't know where the GP is made, but Holloway's are made in the US, and I believe ~$125 cheaper. 

 

Well, hell...

 

I just ordered a Holloway Force Focus Sight Lines putter.  I needed another side saddle putter. 

 

I'd order a Slim Jim, too, if a) I could find one in better shape than what's on the bay right now, and b) if there was a way for Charles Owens's family to profit.

 

Thanks for joining this discussion, which has to be the foremost discussion of side saddle putting in the world.  You've already added to the knowledge base; look forward to reading your stuff!

[Spuggy]

Looked at Positive Putters website, they may have a good product but impossible to tell from possibly one of the poorest websites I have ever seen, shame.

[CanPuttWillPutt2]

13 hours ago, bluedot said:

 

Well, hell...

 

I just ordered a Holloway Force Focus Sight Lines putter.  I needed another side saddle putter. 

 

I'd order a Slim Jim, too, if a) I could find one in better shape than what's on the bay right now, and b) if there was a way for Charles Owens's family to profit.

 

Thanks for joining this discussion, which has to be the foremost discussion of side saddle putting in the world.  You've already added to the knowledge base; look forward to reading your stuff!

Bluedot, will be interested to see what you think of this once you get your hands on it.  I seem to recall from your previous posts that you think the F22 can actually held reasonably vertically so it will be interesting to see what you think of this one.....(please correct me if i'm misrepresenting you!).  I think my style is somewhere around the 90 degree mark as I said i'm still experimenting. 

 

The prices of the Holloways make it a good option to try but considering i've just ordered the f22 I think i'll hang on for a bit..........so i'll just experience these other options vicariously through you chaps. I

 

look forward to reading the review if you don’t mind posting one ? 😀

 

thanks. 

[bluedot]

1 hour ago, CantPuttWontPutt said:

Bluedot, will be interested to see what you think of this once you get your hands on it.  I seem to recall from your previous posts that you think the F22 can actually held reasonably vertically so it will be interesting to see what you think of this one.....(please correct me if i'm misrepresenting you!).  I think my style is somewhere around the 90 degree mark as I said i'm still experimenting. 

 

The prices of the Holloways make it a good option to try but considering i've just ordered the f22 I think i'll hang on for a bit..........so i'll just experience these other options vicariously through you chaps. I

 

look forward to reading the review if you don’t mind posting one ? 😀

 

thanks. 

 

Will do!

[osubuckeyes691]

I've been so curious of side saddle for so long...

 

I used a broomstick multiple times over the last two years and I found my speed control to be incredible. Just feeling like I'm tossing a golf ball towards the cup made a huge difference.

 

Took the plunge and ordered a Holloway Force Focus Sight Lines. Figured it's a good starting point at $130. 

 

We'll see how it works!

Edited January 19, 2021 by osubuckeyes691

[Cactus Jack]

6 hours ago, Spuggy said:

Looked at Positive Putters website, they may have a good product but impossible to tell from possibly one of the poorest websites I have ever seen, shame.

 

I agree with the site. However, keep in mind this an older salt of the earth gentleman continuing his father's passion for putters. There are two brothers who do this because they love golf, putters, but most of all like keeping "Dad's" legacy alive. I enjoyed talking with the folks so much I bought my putter through them, rather than save huge money by purchasing second hand. They are the kind of small U.S. business I like to support, and enjoyed hearing their stories. 

[J_Tizzle]

Oh boy, new putter in the SS game.  I'd be very interested in hearing input on the Holloway, like others have said, if its a quality putter at that price, its great for getting people into trying out the style/approach.

 

As for the people earlier asking about the a**-kicker vs straight in, I personally think the farther back from the face the shaft is, the better it is (for me at least).  I've tried using an old Ping Craz-E long putter and the shaft even with the face just does not work for me.  I'd rank the BG putters (F-22, my F-35, and my proto LFI) are all my favorites because they're all a**-kicker style and the shaft is well behind the face, then probably the Bomar/GP ones are next as the shaft is slightly behind the face, while the 2-ball one on eBay is maybe the worst for me because the shaft is the closest to the face.

 

I'll be very interested to hear thoughts/pictures on the Holloway putters.  Looked quickly at the site, can't see if they have any weights listed for the heads.  Not sure if I missed it or what.

[Cactus Jack]

8 hours ago, J_Tizzle said:

Oh boy, new putter in the SS game.  I'd be very interested in hearing input on the Holloway, like others have said, if its a quality putter at that price, its great for getting people into trying out the style/approach.

 

As for the people earlier asking about the a**-kicker vs straight in, I personally think the farther back from the face the shaft is, the better it is (for me at least).  I've tried using an old Ping Craz-E long putter and the shaft even with the face just does not work for me.  I'd rank the BG putters (F-22, my F-35, and my proto LFI) are all my favorites because they're all a**-kicker style and the shaft is well behind the face, then probably the Bomar/GP ones are next as the shaft is slightly behind the face, while the 2-ball one on eBay is maybe the worst for me because the shaft is the closest to the face.

 

I'll be very interested to hear thoughts/pictures on the Holloway putters.  Looked quickly at the site, can't see if they have any weights listed for the heads.  Not sure if I missed it or what.

 

I don't mean to oversell Holloway. He's a nice guy who thoughtfully designed some nice side saddle putters. For the record he is not the next Scotty Cameron 🙂 . For me, the Holloway is second only to the Slim Jim. After trying countless putters I zeroed in on the specs that work for me, and it just so happened that the Holloway checks all the boxes. The value prop of their putters is hard to beat as well. 

 

I 100% agree on shaft location. I like the shaft to align with the CG, and shafts up front, generally don't do it for me. In my opinion, if you're going the Bobby Grace route the a** kicker shaft is a no brainer...it's really nice. 

[Spuggy]

6 hours ago, Cactus Jack said:

 

I don't mean to oversell Holloway. He's a nice guy who thoughtfully designed some nice side saddle putters. For the record he is not the next Scotty Cameron 🙂 . For me, the Holloway is second only to the Slim Jim. After trying countless putters I zeroed in on the specs that work for me, and it just so happened that the Holloway checks all the boxes. The value prop of their putters is hard to beat as well. 

 

I 100% agree on shaft location. I like the shaft to align with the CG, and shafts up front, generally don't do it for me. In my opinion, if you're going the Bobby Grace route the a** kicker shaft is a no brainer...it's really nice. 

If you're pally with him perhaps ask him to consider shipping overseas! 🙂