The 9th circle of confession.

[Forged4ever]

[quote name='Palauan Hammer' timestamp='1446862039' post='12564148']
Stu, not to worry my man, I would never waste my money on a set of Kickx irons LOL!!

Richard, good to hear from you Brother and hope all is well! As for that thread, that's why I stay out of the I&A most times. That's stuff is far too complicated and way over my head. I try to keep it as simple as possible, I've learned more about the actual swing since joining WRX but I'm still keeping my ability to forget everything and just swing the club. Sometimes ignorance is indeed bliss
[/quote]Like Sam often said-

"The golf swing is simple arithmetic and y'all are doin trigonometry(he was initially addressing Bob Toski and Jim McLean at the GD Teacher's Panel summit-

He was not a stupid man by any stretch but he thought most teachers, #1, having never played tour level golf, knew little to nothing about the change in breathing under pressure that results in a swing change and #2, they tried to teach at full speed and it is near impossible for a Pro to correct at full speed-

What chance does an Am have?

Martial arts, world class musicians, Pitching coaches, my LB coach in college, SEAL Teams and Green hats, they all learn in super slow mo(walk through) again and again and ya just pick up the pace until eventually you are going full speed

It gives muscle memory a chance to ingrain the movement(s)-

It simple though it takes three traits-

1) Discipline
2) Focus
3) Drive

But if ya think about it, most things in life take those three factors if ya wanna be a Champion or compete with em-

HaHa, I'm tired

Stay Well Bro

Always,
Richard

[Nine Miler]

My ex was a forensic photographer. No thanks.

Her boss was the medical examiner. Blech.

[PeanutsDaddy]

MC,

"Hit it, go get it"

Definitely my approach to the game. Not a MORAD man. In truth, I don't even know what the acronym means. It reminds me of NORAD and that's a potentially explosive thought.

I've never done mirror work and/or slow motion training either. I'm sure both practices have their benefits. Maybe someday I'll get serious about this darn game.

[Nine Miler]

Richard, I saw Bob Toski do a clinic at Detroit Golf Club probably 15 years ago. I'm not sure how old he was then, but he wasn't young.

What really amazed me is that he was hitting these beautiful 5 irons and wasn't even missing a breath in his spiel. His rhythm was so good and natural it didn't even change his speech pattern to hit balls. Pretty incredible. He wasn't hitting them short either, and he was not a big guy.

I'm no disciple of any teacher, and I don't even know Toski's philosophy, but that was impressive. It had to have been if I remember that about that clinic, rather than anything else.

[Michael C.]

Here's the video. It's a promo for some instructor I think. He could be a good guy or a total hack. IDK. LOL. But, I found it interesting. These people are changing their focus. Not thinking about knees and elbows. The conscious minds are busy and letting their body react their intent. To hit the damn ball.

The most interesting thing I noticed was transition. When they weren't focused on swing, they paused a little at the top to let their bodies set or brace for the change of direction. External focus so your body can do what it knows how to do.

Sorry, letting you in on my "crazy". LMAO!!

http://youtu.be/om1uMvCKir8

BTW...I think it's more about tempo. I have a few issues with this video but as a whole I thought it was intriguing.

[Michael C.]

[quote name='PeanutsDaddy' timestamp='1446863123' post='12564232']
MC,

"Hit it, go get it"

Definitely my approach to the game. Not a MORAD man. In truth, I don't even know what the acronym means. It reminds me of NORAD and that's a potentially explosive thought.

I've never done mirror work and/or slow motion training either. I'm sure both practices have their benefits. Maybe someday I'll get serious about this darn game.
[/quote]

Mirrors, slow motion, video are all good. I can describe a feel and it won't look anything like what I'm describing. LMAO! BUT, I know what "feel" goes with "ball flight".

[Palauan Hammer]

[quote name='Forged4ever' timestamp='1446862797' post='12564210']
[quote name='Palauan Hammer' timestamp='1446862039' post='12564148']
Stu, not to worry my man, I would never waste my money on a set of Kickx irons LOL!!

Richard, good to hear from you Brother and hope all is well! As for that thread, that's why I stay out of the I&A most times. That's stuff is far too complicated and way over my head. I try to keep it as simple as possible, I've learned more about the actual swing since joining WRX but I'm still keeping my ability to forget everything and just swing the club. Sometimes ignorance is indeed bliss
[/quote]Like Sam often said-

"The golf swing is simple arithmetic and y'all are doin trigonometry(he was initially addressing Bob Toski and Jim McLean at the GD Teacher's Panel summit-

He was not a stupid man by any stretch but he thought most teachers, #1, having never played tour level golf, knew little to nothing about the change in breathing under pressure that results in a swing change and #2, they tried to teach at full speed and it is near impossible for a Pro to correct at full speed-

What chance does an Am have?

Martial arts, world class musicians, Pitching teachers, my LB coach in college, SEAL Teams and Green hats, they all learn in super slow mo(walk through) again and again and ya just pick up the pace until eventually you are going full speed

It gives muscle memory a chance to ingrain the movement(s)-

It simple though it takes three traits-

1) Discipline
2) Focus
3) Drive

But if ya think about it, most things in life take those three factors if ya wanna be a Champion or compete with em-

HaHa, I'm tired

Stay Well Bro

Always,
Richard
[/quote]

Richard, great stuff! I'm am by no stretch a world class musician LOL, but slow motion (tension free, relaxed breathing) is exactly how I learned complicated sticking patterns/rhythms on the drums. I would practice with a metronome at the slowest BPM setting which helped me build solid time, stay tension free instead of trying to anticipate the hit it became natural, and keep a relaxed grip on the sticks which allows dynamic control and speed without effort. BUT like you said, it takes lots of work, and discipline! Most of the fundamental stuff can be viewed as boring if you don't keep in mind the end result of putting in hard work now.

[PeanutsDaddy]

[quote name='Michael C.' timestamp='1446863921' post='12564268']
[quote name='PeanutsDaddy' timestamp='1446863123' post='12564232']
MC,

"Hit it, go get it"

Definitely my approach to the game. Not a MORAD man. In truth, I don't even know what the acronym means. It reminds me of NORAD and that's a potentially explosive thought.

I've never done mirror work and/or slow motion training either. I'm sure both practices have their benefits. Maybe someday I'll get serious about this darn game.
[/quote]

Mirrors, slow motion, video are all good. I can describe a feel and it won't look anything like what I'm describing. LMAO! BUT, I know what "feel" goes with "ball flight".
[/quote]

I'm getting there MC. I know what a draw and fade 'feel' like, not that I can always produce them at will. I know what it 'feels' like to hit a low and high ball, not that I can always produce them at will. Just starting to get a sense of what a 'flop' shot 'feels' like.

Looking at the swings in the video you posted you get a sense of how complex the game of golf is (and/or how complex we often make it).

[Matt J]

Richard I'm reday for your book. I'll ghost write. I could probably pull 100 pages of manuscript from your posts

[Matt J]

*ready* darn phone

[Michael C.]

[quote name='PeanutsDaddy' timestamp='1446864255' post='12564284']
[quote name='Michael C.' timestamp='1446863921' post='12564268']
[quote name='PeanutsDaddy' timestamp='1446863123' post='12564232']
MC,

"Hit it, go get it"

Definitely my approach to the game. Not a MORAD man. In truth, I don't even know what the acronym means. It reminds me of NORAD and that's a potentially explosive thought.

I've never done mirror work and/or slow motion training either. I'm sure both practices have their benefits. Maybe someday I'll get serious about this darn game.
[/quote]

Mirrors, slow motion, video are all good. I can describe a feel and it won't look anything like what I'm describing. LMAO! BUT, I know what "feel" goes with "ball flight".
[/quote]

I'm getting there MC. I know what a draw and fade 'feel' like, not that I can always produce them at will. I know what it 'feels' like to hit a low and high ball, not that I can always produce them at will. Just starting to get a sense of what a 'flop' shot 'feels' like.

Looking at the swings in the video you posted you get a sense of how complex the game of golf is (and/or how complex we often make it).
[/quote]

LOL..I can't do the Tick-tock thing but it was strange how the tempo and transition changed. Like I said, something about it intrigues me

[Michael C.]

[quote name='Forged4ever' timestamp='1446862797' post='12564210']
[quote name='Palauan Hammer' timestamp='1446862039' post='12564148']
Stu, not to worry my man, I would never waste my money on a set of Kickx irons LOL!!

Richard, good to hear from you Brother and hope all is well! As for that thread, that's why I stay out of the I&A most times. That's stuff is far too complicated and way over my head. I try to keep it as simple as possible, I've learned more about the actual swing since joining WRX but I'm still keeping my ability to forget everything and just swing the club. Sometimes ignorance is indeed bliss
[/quote]Like Sam often said-

"The golf swing is simple arithmetic and y'all are doin trigonometry(he was initially addressing Bob Toski and Jim McLean at the GD Teacher's Panel summit-

He was not a stupid man by any stretch but he thought most teachers, #1, having never played tour level golf, knew little to nothing about the change in breathing under pressure that results in a swing change and #2, they tried to teach at full speed and it is near impossible for a Pro to correct at full speed-

What chance does an Am have?

Martial arts, world class musicians, Pitching coaches, my LB coach in college, SEAL Teams and Green hats, they all learn in super slow mo(walk through) again and again and ya just pick up the pace until eventually you are going full speed

It gives muscle memory a chance to ingrain the movement(s)-

It simple though it takes three traits-

1) Discipline
2) Focus
3) Drive

But if ya think about it, most things in life take those three factors if ya wanna be a Champion or compete with em-

HaHa, I'm tired

Stay Well Bro

Always,
Richard
[/quote]

RP, I've been following you all over this forum the last few days. You've been putting up some gems about Butch, Stevie, Tiger and Phil. I need to go back and find the post where you brought up some of the books you read. There's one that you "inspired" Pete to give out to his students. Unless, you just want to tell me here. It would be appreciated.

[DeNinny]

[quote name='Michael C.' timestamp='1446862752' post='12564206']
Occam's razor.

Things get over complicated. Decent grip and stance. Backswing that falls somewhere between too flat and too upright then hit damn ball. It's harder than it looks. Simpler than we make it.

Ground forces, biomechanics......BS! Hit it and go get it.

When you visualize a shot, your first instinct tells you the club. Your brain does all the calculations. If you hit a different club for some reason, you commit to it. Visualize. You brain does all the calculations.

I seen a video about external focus. If I can find it I'll come back and edit it in.
[/quote]

Just a word of caution here...I completely agree, but...I think it is important that the conscious brain either has NO CLUE about the physics or has COMPLETE understanding of it. When your conscious brain has a misunderstanding of the complete physics, then it cannot make the proper connections when on auto-pilot and things go wrong. It will lead to confusion in troubleshooting what really is the swing issue. When everything is going OK that is fine, but if he doesn't know exactly what is happening per the laws of physics (and you won't get this from the manufacturers), then he may think the issue is completely different than what is happening.

I personally became very frustrated when I went to SGI (MP-FliHi) hybrid irons thinking they would help my game. When I switched to them I was expecting mishits to go further and straighter, but in reality I hit more fat and thin shots poorly and I could never really precisely control them. For a while I thought the issues were me and my swing, which in part this was true, but when I switched back and forth between them and my "harder" MP-60s and 67s, I struck the ball MUCH better. It was then I started more properly evaluating the physics of what was happening and only then did I realize the issues weren't just my swing.

I also know and have PMed with a VERY good player that was a sponsored mini-tour player, and he was "persuaded" to play his sponsor's cavity back clubs instead of his more precise blades, clubs he was VERY familiar with already. It was unbeknownst to him that the CBs would not be as precise (i.e. worse dispersion) and so again he went through a struggle period where he blamed himself and his swing when his less precise clubs were the culprit. Going into the change he thought there would be no issue making the switch and thought there was no difference in the technology. I never validated it with him but he may have even thought he would play better with the CBs. But for sure his game suffered because of it.

The same issue applies to misunderstanding the physics of the swing itself. For example if you think X-factor was "true" physics, you may be inclined to swing on auto-pilot after training your hips to be restricted relative to your shoulder turn, but then when the power really isn't there, again because X-factor is a SHAM, then you will be stuck trying to figure out why you can't gain power as per the "physics".

I think Radro made a point in an earlier confessions thread about how he doesn't see SGI/CB users work the ball. They may have it in their heads that they just aren't skilled enough to do it, but in reality their clubs are making it harder for them.

[DeNinny]

[quote name='Conrad1953' timestamp='1446854621' post='12563634']
...
If I ever get over there, or we have an outing I'll have to try and hit
your sticks just to see if I can, lol. I'd probably spray that persimmon
driver all over the place, lol, and turn my bones to dust with those
old blades, haha.
[/quote]

My man the more you keep telling yourself that those negative things are going to happen, the higher the likelihood that they will.

To your point, hitting a modern ball with a persimmon driver/wood sucks. STU needs to give you a "Whole Balata Love" when you try them.

[Reasonability]

Regarding practice and slower speed:
[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5vTfi0gtZ8"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5vTfi0gtZ8[/url]

I got nothing else to add to that one.


Regarding PD's not knowing what MORAD stands for. Let me help you out Bro...
Most Outrageously Retarded & Arrogant D$ickhead

Got nothing else to add on that one

Richard - forgive me for not checking out that thread. Just ate. LMAO!

[Reasonability]

Jim McLean - father of X factor - works for Donald Trump now. There is some justice in this world.

Toski - attended one of his clinics. He is revered and I have to say I liked the man's swing... I personally didn't compute what he was showing us at his clinic. (i.e throwing a golf ball held in the trail hand at the ball teed-up). Tried it a thousand times when I got home.... never once hit one ball any better or worse from it. But...he is revered so in this case - since he didn't ruin spines or provide a thousand arrogant posts in the I & A (MORAD)...then I tip the cap to him even if his messages were largely lost on me personally. He was certainly a captivating presenter when I saw him. Easy to get very drawn-in.

Rhythm - seems to me personally - its a great "corrector" inside not so good swings, and absolutely found inside of all great swings. Its something I tend to believe is not so much concept but rather completely actionable by the masses - from top ranked in the world to the person just starting... so thank you MC for sharing that one.

Nine - FWIW... I TOTALLY relate to NOT being able to exactly pin your swing down to one philosophy. This is probably going to sound strange but I honestly believe the minute you exclude all other possibilities and marry up to one and only one swing philosophy (in this case swing approaches)... you actually close a door to owning your own swing. You end up somehow painting by the numbers and connecting dots. (to each his own...so if MORAD, S&T, MDLT, ROTARY... whatever floats someone's boat...its all good.) I've struggled each and every time I started down a path of studying one and only one method. A golfer like you - you don't need to pick up what THEY'RE dropping - they should be holding their gold-standard up to how you get it done.

[Reasonability]

[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1446867420' post='12564472']
[quote name='Michael C.' timestamp='1446862752' post='12564206']
Occam's razor.

Things get over complicated. Decent grip and stance. Backswing that falls somewhere between too flat and too upright then hit damn ball. It's harder than it looks. Simpler than we make it.

Ground forces, biomechanics......BS! Hit it and go get it.

When you visualize a shot, your first instinct tells you the club. Your brain does all the calculations. If you hit a different club for some reason, you commit to it. Visualize. You brain does all the calculations.

I seen a video about external focus. If I can find it I'll come back and edit it in.
[/quote]

Just a word of caution here...I completely agree, but...I think it is important that the conscious brain either has NO CLUE about the physics or has COMPLETE understanding of it. When your conscious brain has a misunderstanding of the complete physics, then it cannot make the proper connections when on auto-pilot and things go wrong. It will lead to confusion in troubleshooting what really is the swing issue. When everything is going OK that is fine, but if he doesn't know exactly what is happening per the laws of physics (and you won't get this from the manufacturers), then he may think the issue is completely different than what is happening.

I personally became very frustrated when I went to SGI (MP-FliHi) hybrid irons thinking they would help my game. When I switched to them I was expecting mishits to go further and straighter, but in reality I hit more fat and thin shots poorly and I could never really precisely control them. For a while I thought the issues were me and my swing, which in part this was true, but when I switched back and forth between them and my "harder" MP-60s and 67s, I struck the ball MUCH better. It was then I started more properly evaluating the physics of what was happening and only then did I realize the issues weren't just my swing.

I also know and have PMed with a VERY good player that was a sponsored mini-tour player, and he was "persuaded" to play his sponsor's cavity back clubs instead of his more precise blades, clubs he was VERY familiar with already. It was unbeknownst to him that the CBs would not be as precise (i.e. worse dispersion) and so again he went through a struggle period where he blamed himself and his swing when his less precise clubs were the culprit. Going into the change he thought there would be no issue making the switch and thought there was no difference in the technology. I never validated it with him but he may have even thought he would play better with the CBs. But for sure his game suffered because of it.

The same issue applies to misunderstanding the physics of the swing itself. For example if you think X-factor was "true" physics, you may be inclined to swing on auto-pilot after training your hips to be restricted relative to your shoulder turn, but then when the power really isn't there, again because X-factor is a SHAM, then you will be stuck trying to figure out why you can't gain power as per the "physics".

I think Radro made a point in an earlier confessions thread about how he doesn't see SGI/CB users work the ball. They may have it in their heads that they just aren't skilled enough to do it, but in reality their clubs are making it harder for them.
[/quote]

If we each are OK with the state of our games... then there are no real issues or "fixes" in play. The equipment and swing itself are good to go (or as good as they're ever going to be. Its not worth it for the golfer who is good with his swing and sticks to "fix" anything since he's basically just happy to be alive and get out there and give it a go.

BUT... when he can't work the ball. OR...LOL...he can't stop working the ball.... and if he truly wants "fixes"... then it may make sense to figure out why and then go about a plan that most efficiently and effectively manages change.

LOL - the age of instant gratification is upon us. There are those rare few who were plus golfers by the time they were ten years old. But most are on a journey. So the pathway to "most efficient and effective" changes in the swing or equipment USUALLY don't happen overnight.

Which leads me to a question for the gang here...

Was there a Seminole moment on YOUR journey? We're talking here about a full-on, irrefutable AH-HA moment... a clear occurrence when something drove you to keep going in terms of equipment and/or mechanics development to keep going and keep improving

... OR... was there a moment where you decided that you love this game with or without the longest drive and lowest handicap, or best fitting sticks... Where for you this AHA moment was how much you just want to be a golfer and play on for the sake of loving the game regardless of all that other stuff.

(either answer btw is a good answer)

[Michael C.]

Never had a AHA moment. It's always been a progression.

Don't know if I love the game. It's more a drive or determination. I know I can play better. I HAVE to prove it to myself. Not be the best. Not be good for someone else......this may sound sad....I NEED to prove myself TO myself!!

LMFAO!!

...and with that. I officially welcome you to....wait for it....

"MY CRAZY"

Welcome, welcome all!! LMAO!!

[Conrad1953]

[quote name='Reasonability' timestamp='1446874845' post='12564742']
[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1446867420' post='12564472']
[quote name='Michael C.' timestamp='1446862752' post='12564206']
Occam's razor.

Things get over complicated. Decent grip and stance. Backswing that falls somewhere between too flat and too upright then hit damn ball. It's harder than it looks. Simpler than we make it.

Ground forces, biomechanics......BS! Hit it and go get it.

When you visualize a shot, your first instinct tells you the club. Your brain does all the calculations. If you hit a different club for some reason, you commit to it. Visualize. You brain does all the calculations.

I seen a video about external focus. If I can find it I'll come back and edit it in.
[/quote]

Just a word of caution here...I completely agree, but...I think it is important that the conscious brain either has NO CLUE about the physics or has COMPLETE understanding of it. When your conscious brain has a misunderstanding of the complete physics, then it cannot make the proper connections when on auto-pilot and things go wrong. It will lead to confusion in troubleshooting what really is the swing issue. When everything is going OK that is fine, but if he doesn't know exactly what is happening per the laws of physics (and you won't get this from the manufacturers), then he may think the issue is completely different than what is happening.

I personally became very frustrated when I went to SGI (MP-FliHi) hybrid irons thinking they would help my game. When I switched to them I was expecting mishits to go further and straighter, but in reality I hit more fat and thin shots poorly and I could never really precisely control them. For a while I thought the issues were me and my swing, which in part this was true, but when I switched back and forth between them and my "harder" MP-60s and 67s, I struck the ball MUCH better. It was then I started more properly evaluating the physics of what was happening and only then did I realize the issues weren't just my swing.

I also know and have PMed with a VERY good player that was a sponsored mini-tour player, and he was "persuaded" to play his sponsor's cavity back clubs instead of his more precise blades, clubs he was VERY familiar with already. It was unbeknownst to him that the CBs would not be as precise (i.e. worse dispersion) and so again he went through a struggle period where he blamed himself and his swing when his less precise clubs were the culprit. Going into the change he thought there would be no issue making the switch and thought there was no difference in the technology. I never validated it with him but he may have even thought he would play better with the CBs. But for sure his game suffered because of it.

The same issue applies to misunderstanding the physics of the swing itself. For example if you think X-factor was "true" physics, you may be inclined to swing on auto-pilot after training your hips to be restricted relative to your shoulder turn, but then when the power really isn't there, again because X-factor is a SHAM, then you will be stuck trying to figure out why you can't gain power as per the "physics".

I think Radro made a point in an earlier confessions thread about how he doesn't see SGI/CB users work the ball. They may have it in their heads that they just aren't skilled enough to do it, but in reality their clubs are making it harder for them.
[/quote]

If we each are OK with the state of our games... then there are no real issues or "fixes" in play. The equipment and swing itself are good to go (or as good as they're ever going to be. Its not worth it for the golfer who is good with his swing and sticks to "fix" anything since he's basically just happy to be alive and get out there and give it a go.

BUT... when he can't work the ball. OR...LOL...he can't stop working the ball.... and if he truly wants "fixes"... then it may make sense to figure out why and then go about a plan that most efficiently and effectively manages change.

LOL - the age of instant gratification is upon us. There are those rare few who were plus golfers by the time they were ten years old. But most are on a journey. So the pathway to "most efficient and effective" changes in the swing or equipment USUALLY don't happen overnight.

Which leads me to a question for the gang here...

Was there a Seminole moment on YOUR journey? We're talking here about a full-on, irrefutable AH-HA moment... a clear occurrence when something drove you to keep going in terms of equipment and/or mechanics development to keep going and keep improving

... OR... was there a moment where you decided that you love this game with or without the longest drive and lowest handicap, or best fitting sticks... Where for you this AHA moment was how much you just want to be a golfer and play on for the sake of loving the game regardless of all that other stuff.

(either answer btw is a good answer)
[/quote]

Yes, I had an AHA moment when I hit my first shot without "swinging"
the club. The ball was compressed and took off like a streak and I
watched it and said to myself "did I just hit that?"

I have been reluctant ever since to use the word "swing". Swing to me
means the arms swing; like a pendulum. I was an arm swinger until
2008; when I had that AHA moment.

[Michael C.]

Rad, my bad. I scared them all away.

[Conrad1953]

[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1446870210' post='12564574']
[quote name='Conrad1953' timestamp='1446854621' post='12563634']
...
If I ever get over there, or we have an outing I'll have to try and hit
your sticks just to see if I can, lol. I'd probably spray that persimmon
driver all over the place, lol, and turn my bones to dust with those
old blades, haha.
[/quote]

My man the more you keep telling yourself that those negative things are going to happen, the higher the likelihood that they will.

To your point, hitting a modern ball with a persimmon driver/wood sucks. STU needs to give you a "Whole Balata Love" when you try them.
[/quote]

LOL, it isn't like I'm planting those thoughts out of thin air or what someone
has told me. They are based on my memories of playing those clubs. But I
do believe that now I am a much better ball striker than I was when I played
with those clubs......and so there is at least a small reason for optimism in
that regard.

[Conrad1953]

[quote name='Michael C.' timestamp='1446880227' post='12564874']
Rad, my bad. I scared them all away.
[/quote]

Ya MC, they're so scared they fell asleep, lol. I was waiting just to see
what you would post. Do I hear an echo?

[Reasonability]

Very good! Thus far, we have an incremental improver who would not say that one singular moment happened, and one who clearly had a revelation.

LMAO - when I last asked a question it was about the pause - I actually never gave my own answer - had too much fun hearing how others viewed it. This time I'll break policy and offer a personal perspective.

There were what I'd term several very memorable AHAs. So technically - My answer is NO...since there has not been only ONE.

But I can absolutely narrow it down to TWO of the biggest such moments. The first one was halfway through my first bucket at about age 8. Nailed one. The rest of the bucket may or may not have been a disaster...I don't remember. But I very clearly remember that first one that was really a pretty ball flight that went where I was looking.

The second "biggie" that stands in the realm of a singular moment when things changed from that day forward... was on a course where I grew up... and had played 14 straight holes "in the zone". The grip felt so perfect I was afraid to take my hands off the club after every shot. The putter was on fire. I was amazing myself with how "on" things were. On my way to a sub-par round.... and LOST IT. I mean I folded like a cheap tent from tee-to-green. Get this... ended up with an 84. I literally gave up 12 strokes in four holes. On that day - I was determined to figure out what I could do to learn what that feeling was when the club in my hands and my setup just seemed to put everything on auto-pilot. LOL - and I STILL don't have all the answers - never will

MC's Crazy - meet my crazy.

Rad - you're just not crazy enough for this game LOL!!!!

[Conrad1953]

The best golf swing resides somewhere between ignorance and
paralysis. I am very profound late at night.

And slow practice for a man in his 60s? Not even going to try that.
Better to practice the Herky Jerky...and I'm relatively steady for an
old fart just not SLOW and steady.

[Conrad1953]

[quote name='Reasonability' timestamp='1446881061' post='12564896']
Very good! Thus far, we have an incremental improver who would not say that one singular moment happened, and one who clearly had a revelation.

LMAO - when I last asked a question it was about the pause - I actually never gave my own answer - had too much fun hearing how others viewed it. This time I'll break policy and offer a personal perspective.

There were what I'd term several very memorable AHAs. So technically - My answer is NO...since there has not been only ONE.

But I can absolutely narrow it down to TWO of the biggest such moments. The first one was halfway through my first bucket at about age 8. Nailed one. The rest of the bucket may or may not have been a disaster...I don't remember. But I very clearly remember that first one that was really a pretty ball flight that went where I was looking.

The second "biggie" that stands in the realm of a singular moment when things changed from that day forward... was on a course where I grew up... and had played 14 straight holes "in the zone". The grip felt so perfect I was afraid to take my hands off the club after every shot. The putter was on fire. I was amazing myself with how "on" things were. On my way to a sub-par round.... and LOST IT. I mean I folded like a cheap tent from tee-to-green. Get this... ended up with an 84. I literally gave up 12 strokes in four holes. On that day - I was determined to figure out what I could do to learn what that feeling was when the club in my hands and my setup just seemed to put everything on auto-pilot. LOL - and I STILL don't have all the answers - never will

MC's Crazy - meet my crazy.

Rad - you're just not crazy enough for this game LOL!!!!
[/quote]

Oh, Judge, I could post all sorts of craziness and I think you know
that, lol. Let's just say that if we were "live" talking; where I don't
have time to think before opening my mouth, who knows. lol??

If I had to write AND post the first words that come to my mouth
sometimes.............I would be banned from here for sure...and so
would everyone else, lol

[Michael C.]

[quote name='Reasonability' timestamp='1446881061' post='12564896']
Very good! Thus far, we have an incremental improver who would not say that one singular moment happened, and one who clearly had a revelation.

LMAO - when I last asked a question it was about the pause - I actually never gave my own answer - had too much fun hearing how others viewed it. This time I'll break policy and offer a personal perspective.

There were what I'd term several very memorable AHAs. So technically - My answer is NO...since there has not been only ONE.

But I can absolutely narrow it down to TWO of the biggest such moments. The first one was halfway through my first bucket at about age 8. Nailed one. The rest of the bucket may or may not have been a disaster...I don't remember. But I very clearly remember that first one that was really a pretty ball flight that went where I was looking.

The second "biggie" that stands in the realm of a singular moment when things changed from that day forward... was on a course where I grew up... and had played 14 straight holes "in the zone". The grip felt so perfect I was afraid to take my hands off the club after every shot. The putter was on fire. I was amazing myself with how "on" things were. On my way to a sub-par round.... and LOST IT. I mean I folded like a cheap tent from tee-to-green. Get this... ended up with an 84. I literally gave up 12 strokes in four holes. On that day - I was determined to figure out what I could do to learn what that feeling was when the club in my hands and my setup just seemed to put everything on auto-pilot. LOL - and I STILL don't have all the answers - never will

MC's Crazy - meet my crazy.

Rad - you're just not crazy enough for this game LOL!!!!
[/quote]

Reason, have you ever heard of Homer Kelly? Of course you have. I read a biography on him. That's how his instruction book came about.

Just for the record. I love the game. The challenge. The pure strike and the flight of the ball. I love it.


I know exactly what you mean. I've never finished under par for 18. The track I play most often, I've birdied every hole and eagle 5 of them. Now, I don't expect to shoot 23 under in one round...I'm not THAT crazy. But, I think if I get out of my head, I could legitimately shoot in the 60s.

[Michael C.]

[quote name='Conrad1953' timestamp='1446882518' post='12564910']
[quote name='Reasonability' timestamp='1446881061' post='12564896']
Very good! Thus far, we have an incremental improver who would not say that one singular moment happened, and one who clearly had a revelation.

LMAO - when I last asked a question it was about the pause - I actually never gave my own answer - had too much fun hearing how others viewed it. This time I'll break policy and offer a personal perspective.

There were what I'd term several very memorable AHAs. So technically - My answer is NO...since there has not been only ONE.

But I can absolutely narrow it down to TWO of the biggest such moments. The first one was halfway through my first bucket at about age 8. Nailed one. The rest of the bucket may or may not have been a disaster...I don't remember. But I very clearly remember that first one that was really a pretty ball flight that went where I was looking.

The second "biggie" that stands in the realm of a singular moment when things changed from that day forward... was on a course where I grew up... and had played 14 straight holes "in the zone". The grip felt so perfect I was afraid to take my hands off the club after every shot. The putter was on fire. I was amazing myself with how "on" things were. On my way to a sub-par round.... and LOST IT. I mean I folded like a cheap tent from tee-to-green. Get this... ended up with an 84. I literally gave up 12 strokes in four holes. On that day - I was determined to figure out what I could do to learn what that feeling was when the club in my hands and my setup just seemed to put everything on auto-pilot. LOL - and I STILL don't have all the answers - never will

MC's Crazy - meet my crazy.

Rad - you're just not crazy enough for this game LOL!!!!
[/quote]

Oh, Judge, I could post all sorts of craziness and I think you know
that, lol. Let's just say that if we were "live" talking; where I don't
have time to think before opening my mouth, who knows. lol??

If I had to write AND post the first words that come to my mouth
sometimes.............I would be banned from here for sure...and so
would everyone else, lol
[/quote]

I resemble that last remark. LMAO!

[BIG STU]

[quote name='Conrad1953' timestamp='1446854621' post='12563634']
[quote name='BIG STU' timestamp='1446846005' post='12562946']
OK Rad I forgot I had a pic in my files of that driver in my strictly vintage set

[attachment=3022330:ATT_1445121383007_20151017_132917.jpg]

See how absolutely flat the sole is? Note the 20 year old lead tape Notice the 'bore through shaft" and also the "gravity core technology" all in 1992. BTW that paticular driver was custom built for a tour player who is a friend of mine and has hardly any face roll. He gave it to me in 94. And heck yes I can still hit those FC 4000s ceramic face irons too! Other than distance I can play those old sticks pretty competitive
[/quote]

Cool sticks Stu. Some of the radio guys are going even further back to
the hickory sticks and playing them once a week or so. Guys like Mark
Carnavale, Dennis Paulson and Carl Paulson. Maybe you know them
for all I know, lol. I think Carl is from S. Carolina.

They're getting their clubs from Tad Moore in Bama. They haven't
mentioned prices but I have heard the clubs are pricey. I've heard
Tad on the radio with them from time to time.

Has been years since I've played even persimmon and blades. To
be honest I don't know if I could even play those clubs today. They
were tough to hit when I was young; much less trying to hit them
now, lol.

Getting back to hickory I've heard you really have to swing smoothly
and have good timing. Dennis has said he can shoot around par with
them but had to move up a set of tees, naturally. But he has said
he's around a +3 these days as compared to the +6 to +8 he was
when he was playing on the tour.

If I ever get over there, or we have an outing I'll have to try and hit
your sticks just to see if I can, lol. I'd probably spray that persimmon
driver all over the place, lol, and turn my bones to dust with those
old blades, haha.
[/quote]Yep Tad Moore is doing remans of hickory sticks. They are pricey but they are labor intensive to make properly. They have several Hickory golf leagues. In fact there are quite a few of those hickory guys over in the classic golf and golfer's forum and Mr Moore is on there quite a bit chatting it up just like the rest of us sharing his experiences and advice. I have learned a couple of things about putters from him on there especially on reweighting and balancing. Now with the vintage sticks that I play (as pictured) I have to move up to the Gold (senior) tees. I only hit that driver 235 or so any more and the 4 wood I hit about like my V-Steel 7 wood about 190 195. Those irons are a little stiff for me now I can jump on them and hit them for 18 holes but tire out. They are a bit heavier than the VIPs even with the VIPs lead taped and they have stiff shafts. I really do not want to change the shafts though because those irons were the old man's and he got them new in 1962 and they have been in the family since. They are all original except the grips. When I play them some now I imagine him upstairs laughing and saying "now pro you know what it is like to get old I see those shafts are getting a little stiff for you to hit now". I may relent though when I wear the VIPs all the way out even though I have a set of Mac Tour Blades in storage I do not like the head on the Tour Blades as well as those or the VIPs.

[BIG STU]

[quote name='PeanutsDaddy' timestamp='1446857996' post='12563906']
Stu,

I don't know what you decided, but I did reach out to Continental golf about chrome stripping. $30 per head and they would clean up the head and apply a paint-fill of my choice after stripping. I'm going to send the VIP short irons for a treatment to match my custom VIP wedges. If they are raw I don't have to worry about them taking some abuse. The chrome is just too pretty. I'm going to leave the new set of VIP's with the chrome finish.
[/quote]I am going to send them after the first of the year to Continental because they are basically right up the road from me in Raleigh NC. I am going to have them stripped and left in the raw.Talk about custom VIP wedges I have one of Curtis Strange's that is custom that Curtis himself gave me. That is a crazy story within itself. I played a couple of rounds with it but it has a little too much offset for me. I will dig it out of the closet stash and take a pic one day. LOL I know exactly where it is. It is in one of John Daly's old staff bags in the front room closet. All my special stuff stays in that closet

[BIG STU]

[quote name='Michael C.' timestamp='1446862752' post='12564206']
Occam's razor.

Things get over complicated. Decent grip and stance. Backswing that falls somewhere between too flat and too upright then hit damn ball. It's harder than it looks. Simpler than we make it.

Ground forces, biomechanics......BS! Hit it and go get it.

When you visualize a shot, your first instinct tells you the club. Your brain does all the calculations. If you hit a different club for some reason, you commit to it. Visualize. You brain does all the calculations.

I seen a video about external focus. If I can find it I'll come back and edit it in.
[/quote]That is my game in a nutshell. Hit it find it hit it again. As my grandfather said KISS Keep It Simple Stupid!