Bradley Hughes- Right Arm and Pivot

[bhughesgolf]

You guys are rather strange. Absolute semantics.
Who cares what is accelerating or slowing down so long as the goal is to accelerate and not stall. Its not as difficult as you guys think. The ball proves it all. Good golfers do it a heck of a lot better than bad golfers so the results are obvious.

[bhughesgolf]

[quote name='Millbrook' timestamp='1447167035' post='12578730']
Took me 4 attempts to pass physics O level, it hasn't helped my golf.
[/quote]

Cos you dont need to know it!!! You just need to do it.
Youll get there with enough work and patience to have the body and mind sync up to allow it

[CrabDaddy]

[quote name='Fort Worth Pro' timestamp='1447165689' post='12578618']
[quote name='bhughesgolf' timestamp='1447163765' post='12578460']
Why EJ?
1) I am professional enough not to bag other professionals. Every instructor is doing their best to help golfers. I concern myself with my instruction and what successful ways I have helped people- not what they may be doing right or wrong John has some very insightful thoughts as do many other instructors. We can all learn from various sources and we can all think some sources are irrelevant.
2) Post impact is there for certain. Keep everything moving- its a simple logic that helps accelerating through the hit - even though the strike then disrupts that acceleration/ I show it here and can give you the numbers also from the computer even though I dont have to prove anything to you as a non student
[media=]http://youtu.be/ESt1OZehf9A[/media]
3)prestressed shaft - the club hasnt reached its max speed yet- still loaded. Thats not hard to understand. Even a "scientist" such as Tuttleman explains that in his research
4) I dont teach super slotting- so who cares
5) Dont do that credit card fees either- dont even know what you are talking about- moan to John E if you our a friend feels hard done by there in that regard
[/quote]

2) so you are saying the pivot is accelerating all the way through the shot? Am j reading that correctly?
[/quote]
In fairness, at 0:52, "...I'm talking [b]intent[/b]. Obviously, it's not going to happen like that."
And, that is where I wish this thread and the other had gone... IMHO, it's a legitimate discussion about how to achieve the feel or intent of acceleration or what keeps you from getting there.

[iteachgolf]

You guys are rather strange. Absolute semantics.

Who cares what is accelerating or slowing down so long as the goal is to accelerate and not stall. Its not as difficult as you guys think. The ball proves it all. Good golfers do it a heck of a lot better than bad golfers so the results are obvious.

 

It's not semantics. And it does matter. Bad golfers don't decelerate their pivots which doesn't allow as much speed to be passed to the clubhead

 

 

Bad golfers hips and shoulders don't decelerate, and while they have the same or even greater hip and shoulder rotational velocities they have less clubhead speed. And them trying to accelerate more isn't the answer and won't help. You don't consciously decelerate your pivot, proper sequencing makes it happen, but without a doubt better players with better sequences absolutely decelerate MORE not less with the pivots so they can create more clubhead speed

[Fort Worth Pro]

[quote name='CrabDaddy' timestamp='1447167503' post='12578768']
[quote name='Fort Worth Pro' timestamp='1447165689' post='12578618']
[quote name='bhughesgolf' timestamp='1447163765' post='12578460']
Why EJ?
1) I am professional enough not to bag other professionals. Every instructor is doing their best to help golfers. I concern myself with my instruction and what successful ways I have helped people- not what they may be doing right or wrong John has some very insightful thoughts as do many other instructors. We can all learn from various sources and we can all think some sources are irrelevant.
2) Post impact is there for certain. Keep everything moving- its a simple logic that helps accelerating through the hit - even though the strike then disrupts that acceleration/ I show it here and can give you the numbers also from the computer even though I dont have to prove anything to you as a non student
[media=]http://youtu.be/ESt1OZehf9A[/media]
3)prestressed shaft - the club hasnt reached its max speed yet- still loaded. Thats not hard to understand. Even a "scientist" such as Tuttleman explains that in his research
4) I dont teach super slotting- so who cares
5) Dont do that credit card fees either- dont even know what you are talking about- moan to John E if you our a friend feels hard done by there in that regard
[/quote]

2) so you are saying the pivot is accelerating all the way through the shot? Am j reading that correctly?
[/quote]
In fairness, at 0:52, "...I'm talking [b]intent[/b]. Obviously, it's not going to happen like that."
And, that is where I wish this thread and the other had gone... IMHO, it's a legitimate discussion about how to achieve the feel or intent of acceleration or what keeps you from getting there.
[/quote]

Crab...there is a ton of wiggle room in what he said. I havd also heard abs professes that post impact acceleration is real and not just an intent, hence my question as to what he believes is actually happening. For whatever reason he is ducking and dodging

[quote name='CrabDaddy' timestamp='1447167503' post='12578768']
[quote name='Fort Worth Pro' timestamp='1447165689' post='12578618']
[quote name='bhughesgolf' timestamp='1447163765' post='12578460']
Why EJ?
1) I am professional enough not to bag other professionals. Every instructor is doing their best to help golfers. I concern myself with my instruction and what successful ways I have helped people- not what they may be doing right or wrong John has some very insightful thoughts as do many other instructors. We can all learn from various sources and we can all think some sources are irrelevant.
2) Post impact is there for certain. Keep everything moving- its a simple logic that helps accelerating through the hit - even though the strike then disrupts that acceleration/ I show it here and can give you the numbers also from the computer even though I dont have to prove anything to you as a non student
[media=]http://youtu.be/ESt1OZehf9A[/media]
3)prestressed shaft - the club hasnt reached its max speed yet- still loaded. Thats not hard to understand. Even a "scientist" such as Tuttleman explains that in his research
4) I dont teach super slotting- so who cares
5) Dont do that credit card fees either- dont even know what you are talking about- moan to John E if you our a friend feels hard done by there in that regard
[/quote]

2) so you are saying the pivot is accelerating all the way through the shot? Am j reading that correctly?
[/quote]
In fairness, at 0:52, "...I'm talking [b]intent[/b]. Obviously, it's not going to happen like that."
And, that is where I wish this thread and the other had gone... IMHO, it's a legitimate discussion about how to achieve the feel or intent of acceleration or what keeps you from getting there.
[/quote]

Crab...there is a ton of wiggle room in what he said. I havd also heard abs professes that post impact acceleration is real and not just an intent, hence my question as to what he believes is actually happening. For whatever reason he is ducking and dodging

[Ghost of Snead]

[quote name='Fort Worth Pro' timestamp='1447168520' post='12578854']

Crab...there is a ton of wiggle room in what he said. I havd also heard abs professes that post impact acceleration is real and not just an intent, hence my question as to what he believes is actually happening. For whatever reason he is ducking and dodging
[/quote]

If post impact acceleration is real, why is swing speed measured at the point of impact ?

[Roll Tide 885]

Hey Monte.................

A question for you: when does the barrel of bat reach its highest velocity, before or after contact with the ball?

[bhughesgolf]

EJ see you added more requests
6) I dont teach Grady- never have...
So whats your point- ?? We get it- you dont like JE...
Your requests are silly and ignorant.

[quote name='Ghost of Snead' timestamp='1447168612' post='12578866']
[quote name='Fort Worth Pro' timestamp='1447168520' post='12578854']

Crab...there is a ton of wiggle room in what he said. I havd also heard abs professes that post impact acceleration is real and not just an intent, hence my question as to what he believes is actually happening. For whatever reason he is ducking and dodging
[/quote]

If post impact acceleration is real, why is swing speed measured at the point of impact ?
[/quote]

Holy cow- watch the video I posted

[Fort Worth Pro]

[quote name='bhughesgolf' timestamp='1447169712' post='12578938']
EJ see you added more requests
6) I dont teach Grady- never have...
So whats your point- ?? We get it- you dont like JE...
Your requests are silly and ignorant.

[quote name='Ghost of Snead' timestamp='1447168612' post='12578866']
[quote name='Fort Worth Pro' timestamp='1447168520' post='12578854']

Crab...there is a ton of wiggle room in what he said. I havd also heard abs professes that post impact acceleration is real and not just an intent, hence my question as to what he believes is actually happening. For whatever reason he is ducking and dodging
[/quote]

If post impact acceleration is real, why is swing speed measured at the point of impact ?
[/quote]

Holy cow- watch the video I posted
[/quote]

Holy cow- answer a simple question. Do you or the ABS Guys believe the pivot and/or club actually accelerates into and past impact

[bhughesgolf]

http://youtu.be/k8krW5z-MO4

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='Roll Tide 885' timestamp='1447169108' post='12578898']
Hey Monte.................

A question for you: when does the barrel of bat reach its highest velocity, before or after contact with the ball?
[/quote]

Again this has been measured. The barrel of the bat slows down significantly post constant. Right arm straightening and the things you believe are accelerating it are simply making it decelerate less. Which doesn't matter once ball is gone anyways. Bat slows down significantly after impact with the ball

[nitram]

For the sake of constructive dialogue, I'd like to see Michaels' question answered. However it appears as if we'll continue to play a somewhat muted version of ring-around-the rosie until this thing gets locked. To say it's a bit disappointing is an understatement but alas, it's become the norm in these threads.

And no Hawkeye, you're not alone.

[northgolf]

[quote name='Roll Tide 885' timestamp='1447165478' post='12578592']
[quote]In practical terms as to the damage to the deer then it doesn't really make a difference but yes the train does slow down slightly but because it has such high inertia then the effect is negligible. The whole discussion as to minor changes in acceleration due to impact is rather irrelevant to the golf swing I believe, but the intent of trying to keep accelerating the club through and past impact is useful for the swing.[/quote]

Do you actually believe a 10,000 ton, repeat 10,000 ton, train moving at speed would show any real time deceleration when hitting a 150 pound deer. There may be a mathematical process to determine that, but I would imagine it would be something like- .000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001.
[/quote]

Your answer is like asking a woman if she will sleep with you for $1,000,000, when she says yes, you offer her $10, she says: "what do you think I am a whore", at that point, the answer is: "We've already established that, now we are just haggling over price".

[Fort Worth Pro]

That has than zero to do with the question at hand. It's a Simple question. What do you believe actually happens.

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='bhughesgolf' timestamp='1447170801' post='12579044']
http://youtu.be/k8krW5z-MO4
[/quote]

And what does this have to do with the discussion at hand? Ignore my post that the worst golfers decelerate the pivot the least creating the lowest clubhead speed. And the best players decelerate the hardest and create the most speed?

[starsail85]

Somebody give me a reason why the pivot decelerates in a good swing then

Is it because the muscular thrust of the first part of the downswing cannot sustain speed?

Is it because the club starts to create force and slow the arms down?

Is it because the body is already quite open at impact and the weight of trailing parts slows it down?

I notice that all parts slow down the more horizontal their direction becomes?

Is the club head speeding up as the hands slow down an equal and opposite reaction force?

Anybody?

[Ghost of Snead]

[quote name='Fort Worth Pro' timestamp='1447170341' post='12579000']
[quote name='bhughesgolf' timestamp='1447169712' post='12578938']
EJ see you added more requests
6) I dont teach Grady- never have...
So whats your point- ?? We get it- you dont like JE...
Your requests are silly and ignorant.

[quote name='Ghost of Snead' timestamp='1447168612' post='12578866']
[quote name='Fort Worth Pro' timestamp='1447168520' post='12578854']
Crab...there is a ton of wiggle room in what he said. I havd also heard abs professes that post impact acceleration is real and not just an intent, hence my question as to what he believes is actually happening. For whatever reason he is ducking and dodging
[/quote]

If post impact acceleration is real, why is swing speed measured at the point of impact ?
[/quote]

Holy cow- watch the video I posted
[/quote]

Holy cow- answer a simple question. Do you or the ABS Guys believe the pivot and/or club actually accelerates into and past impact
[/quote]

Did/do Norman, Trevino, Hogan, Knudson, Nicklaus, Irwin etc have the intent to accelerate the club through and post impact to the finish ?

No doubt, the intent was there.

Did/Do Norman, Trevino, Hogan, Knudson, Nicklaus, Irwin etc actually believe the club continues to accelerate post impact to the finish ?

Not a chance in h*ll ...

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='mizunostaffer' timestamp='1447171504' post='12579100']
Somebody give me a reason why the pivot decelerates in a good swing then

Is it because the muscular thrust of the first part of the downswing cannot sustain speed?

Is it because the club starts to create force and slow the arms down?

Is it because the body is already quite open at impact and the weight of trailing parts slows it down?

I notice that all parts slow down the more horizontal their direction becomes?

Is the club head speeding up as the hands slow down an equal and opposite reaction force?

Anybody?
[/quote]

This has already been covered extensively. The shoulders speeding up the rate they are turning relative to hips increases moi and slows down the hips, then the arms speeding up relative to shoulders does the same thing and so on.

If the pivot never decelerated the arms and club could never move at a faster rate than what the pivot was turning. This would result in very low clubhead speeds. This can be seen in the graph of "amateur 2" I posted. His hips, shoulders, and arms are moving the fastest at impact yet the slowest clubhead speed

[Silky]

[quote name='Ghost of Snead' timestamp='1447171522' post='12579102']
[quote name='Fort Worth Pro' timestamp='1447170341' post='12579000']
[quote name='bhughesgolf' timestamp='1447169712' post='12578938']
EJ see you added more requests
6) I dont teach Grady- never have...
So whats your point- ?? We get it- you dont like JE...
Your requests are silly and ignorant.

[quote name='Ghost of Snead' timestamp='1447168612' post='12578866']
[quote name='Fort Worth Pro' timestamp='1447168520' post='12578854']
Crab...there is a ton of wiggle room in what he said. I havd also heard abs professes that post impact acceleration is real and not just an intent, hence my question as to what he believes is actually happening. For whatever reason he is ducking and dodging
[/quote]

If post impact acceleration is real, why is swing speed measured at the point of impact ?
[/quote]

Holy cow- watch the video I posted
[/quote]

Holy cow- answer a simple question. Do you or the ABS Guys believe the pivot and/or club actually accelerates into and past impact
[/quote]

Did/do Norman, Trevino, Hogan, Knudson, Nicklaus, Irwin etc have the intent to accelerate the club through and post impact to the finish ?

No doubt, the intent was there.

[color=#b22222]But in reality, when do they stop the CCW torques of the legs to the pelvis, of the core muscles to the torso, before impact or after impact? Do they actively brake the pelvis and the torso rotation before impact or they slow down because of the transfers of momentum and of the reactive torques?[/color]


Did/Do Norman, Trevino, Hogan, Knudson, Nicklaus, Irwin etc actually believe the club continues to accelerate post impact to the finish ?

Not a chance in h*ll ...

[color=#b22222]If they continue to accelerate to the finish, they will surely break their necks with the clubs. Only Arnold Palmer knows how to miss the neck [/color]

[/quote]

[CrabDaddy]

[quote name='Fort Worth Pro' timestamp='1447171342' post='12579088']
That has than zero to do with the question at hand. It's a Simple question. What do you believe actually happens.
[/quote]
You're not expecting a 'Yes' or 'No' answer, correct? LOL. This whole episode has been Twilight Zone-esque from the start. With the measurements that are out there, how can somebody argue that the club continues accelerating post-impact? But, on the other hand, even if he believes it to be true, if his teaching with that intent produces good golf swings, it kinda doesn't matter. It's like the old vs. new ball flight laws - if the ball wound up where you wanted it to go, does it really matter if it starts according the face or path? [<- rhetorical, everybody] Isn't it 'Feel vs. Real' until it plays a role in how golfers swing the club - nobody thinks about kinetic chain or decelerating hips, shoulders, etc... in sequence standing over the ball (I hope, lol)?
Just trying to be objective about this. There's a real and helpful discussion buried under this dung heap of a thread, but I'm losing hope that it will ever germinate, LOL.

[ej002]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1447172485' post='12579200']
[quote name='mizunostaffer' timestamp='1447171504' post='12579100']
Somebody give me a reason why the pivot decelerates in a good swing then

Is it because the muscular thrust of the first part of the downswing cannot sustain speed?

Is it because the club starts to create force and slow the arms down?

Is it because the body is already quite open at impact and the weight of trailing parts slows it down?

I notice that all parts slow down the more horizontal their direction becomes?

Is the club head speeding up as the hands slow down an equal and opposite reaction force?

Anybody?
[/quote]

This has already been covered extensively. The shoulders speeding up the rate they are turning relative to hips increases moi and slows down the hips, then the arms speeding up relative to shoulders does the same thing and so on.

If the pivot never decelerated the arms and club could never move at a faster rate than what the pivot was turning. This would result in very low clubhead speeds. This can be seen in the graph of "amateur 2" I posted. His hips, shoulders, and arms are moving the fastest at impact yet the slowest clubhead speed
[/quote]

[starsail85]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1447172485' post='12579200']
[quote name='mizunostaffer' timestamp='1447171504' post='12579100']
Somebody give me a reason why the pivot decelerates in a good swing then

Is it because the muscular thrust of the first part of the downswing cannot sustain speed?

Is it because the club starts to create force and slow the arms down?

Is it because the body is already quite open at impact and the weight of trailing parts slows it down?

I notice that all parts slow down the more horizontal their direction becomes?

Is the club head speeding up as the hands slow down an equal and opposite reaction force?

Anybody?
[/quote]

This has already been covered extensively. The shoulders speeding up the rate they are turning relative to hips increases moi and slows down the hips, then the arms speeding up relative to shoulders does the same thing and so on.

If the pivot never decelerated the arms and club could never move at a faster rate than what the pivot was turning. This would result in very low clubhead speeds. This can be seen in the graph of "amateur 2" I posted. His hips, shoulders, and arms are moving the fastest at impact yet the slowest clubhead speed
[/quote]
Fascinating

So all the slowing down is involuntary in a good swing and not something that should be strived for . Most people don't get the arms moving fast enough to begin with along with correct direction so they don't experience deceleration near impact ?

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='mizunostaffer' timestamp='1447173406' post='12579290']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1447172485' post='12579200']
[quote name='mizunostaffer' timestamp='1447171504' post='12579100']
Somebody give me a reason why the pivot decelerates in a good swing then

Is it because the muscular thrust of the first part of the downswing cannot sustain speed?

Is it because the club starts to create force and slow the arms down?

Is it because the body is already quite open at impact and the weight of trailing parts slows it down?

I notice that all parts slow down the more horizontal their direction becomes?

Is the club head speeding up as the hands slow down an equal and opposite reaction force?

Anybody?
[/quote]

This has already been covered extensively. The shoulders speeding up the rate they are turning relative to hips increases moi and slows down the hips, then the arms speeding up relative to shoulders does the same thing and so on.

If the pivot never decelerated the arms and club could never move at a faster rate than what the pivot was turning. This would result in very low clubhead speeds. This can be seen in the graph of "amateur 2" I posted. His hips, shoulders, and arms are moving the fastest at impact yet the slowest clubhead speed
[/quote]
Fascinating

So all the slowing down is involuntary in a good swing and not something that should be strived for . Most people don't get the arms moving fast enough to begin with along with correct direction so they don't experience deceleration near impact ?
[/quote]

It absolutely should be strived for. It's a byproduct of proper sequencing. It shouldn't be consciously decelerating. But you should by striving for a sequence that causes it to happen.

Everything is relative but the shoulders must speed up their rate relative to hips and the arms must speed up their rate relative to the shoulders for the decelerate to happen. Many just spin with their pivot and try to rotate hard as they can and never transfer the speed outward to the club

[starsail85]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1447173697' post='12579324']
[quote name='mizunostaffer' timestamp='1447173406' post='12579290']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1447172485' post='12579200']
[quote name='mizunostaffer' timestamp='1447171504' post='12579100']
Somebody give me a reason why the pivot decelerates in a good swing then

Is it because the muscular thrust of the first part of the downswing cannot sustain speed?

Is it because the club starts to create force and slow the arms down?

Is it because the body is already quite open at impact and the weight of trailing parts slows it down?

I notice that all parts slow down the more horizontal their direction becomes?

Is the club head speeding up as the hands slow down an equal and opposite reaction force?

Anybody?
[/quote]

This has already been covered extensively. The shoulders speeding up the rate they are turning relative to hips increases moi and slows down the hips, then the arms speeding up relative to shoulders does the same thing and so on.

If the pivot never decelerated the arms and club could never move at a faster rate than what the pivot was turning. This would result in very low clubhead speeds. This can be seen in the graph of "amateur 2" I posted. His hips, shoulders, and arms are moving the fastest at impact yet the slowest clubhead speed
[/quote]
Fascinating

So all the slowing down is involuntary in a good swing and not something that should be strived for . Most people don't get the arms moving fast enough to begin with along with correct direction so they don't experience deceleration near impact ?
[/quote]

It absolutely should be strived for. It's a byproduct of proper sequencing. It shouldn't be consciously decelerating. But you should by striving for a sequence that causes it to happen.

Everything is relative but the shoulders must speed up their rate relative to hips and the arms must speed up their rate relative to the shoulders for the decelerate to happen. Many just spin with their pivot and try to rotate hard as they can and never transfer the speed outward to the club
[/quote]

Yes that is what I ment Iteach

I'm guessing people who manage to achieve this will gain massive amounts of clubhead speed. How harder task? Could this deceleration rate be the difference between a pga pro who flies it 290 and a good amateur how flies it 255?

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='mizunostaffer' timestamp='1447174174' post='12579366']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1447173697' post='12579324']
[quote name='mizunostaffer' timestamp='1447173406' post='12579290']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1447172485' post='12579200']
[quote name='mizunostaffer' timestamp='1447171504' post='12579100']
Somebody give me a reason why the pivot decelerates in a good swing then

Is it because the muscular thrust of the first part of the downswing cannot sustain speed?

Is it because the club starts to create force and slow the arms down?

Is it because the body is already quite open at impact and the weight of trailing parts slows it down?

I notice that all parts slow down the more horizontal their direction becomes?

Is the club head speeding up as the hands slow down an equal and opposite reaction force?

Anybody?
[/quote]

This has already been covered extensively. The shoulders speeding up the rate they are turning relative to hips increases moi and slows down the hips, then the arms speeding up relative to shoulders does the same thing and so on.

If the pivot never decelerated the arms and club could never move at a faster rate than what the pivot was turning. This would result in very low clubhead speeds. This can be seen in the graph of "amateur 2" I posted. His hips, shoulders, and arms are moving the fastest at impact yet the slowest clubhead speed
[/quote]
Fascinating

So all the slowing down is involuntary in a good swing and not something that should be strived for . Most people don't get the arms moving fast enough to begin with along with correct direction so they don't experience deceleration near impact ?
[/quote]

It absolutely should be strived for. It's a byproduct of proper sequencing. It shouldn't be consciously decelerating. But you should by striving for a sequence that causes it to happen.

Everything is relative but the shoulders must speed up their rate relative to hips and the arms must speed up their rate relative to the shoulders for the decelerate to happen. Many just spin with their pivot and try to rotate hard as they can and never transfer the speed outward to the club
[/quote]

Yes that is what I ment Iteach

I'm guessing people who manage to achieve this will gain massive amounts of clubhead speed. How harder task? Could this deceleration rate be the difference between a pga pro who flies it 290 and a good amateur how flies it 255?
[/quote]

Very few guys fly it 290. Would put you top 10-15% on tour. Tour average carry is 265-270.

It won't make you swing it 120mph but it will definitely increase speed and distance. How much relative to how bad current sequence is. I've had guys go from 102 to 116 and 108 to 120.

[Jinks Links]

I like what Brad is saying better, especially if it came from tour experience.

[northgolf]

[quote name='Jinks Links' timestamp='1447175319' post='12579456']
I like what Brad is saying better, especially if it came from tour experience.
[/quote]

Great first post, even if it is completely vapid.

Edit: quoted for posterity, hilarity, and posteriority

[ej002]

[quote name='Jinks Links' timestamp='1447175319' post='12579456']
I like what Brad is saying better, especially if it came from tour experience.
[/quote]

OMG for real? Who is this Chris or Coat? I know you are not Cary for sure. At this rate, I am going to page eightiron, SVS, Teeace, Jeffy, Jeff, Todd Johnson, Another Todd Johnson, Dariusz, Vader, superscratch, very scratch, super very scratch, hogangolf101, burleygolf, Finney, Franklinear, KennyOzaki, EditaOzaki, Tembolo.... SvS's 40 names, Zappa and his progeny, Bogeybogeldorf.... who else????????

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='Jinks Links' timestamp='1447175319' post='12579456']
I like what Brad is saying better, especially if it came from tour experience.
[/quote]

Except nobody on tour is doing it. Nobody on tour accelerates pivot all the way to impact let alone after. It is what high handicap amateurs do though.

Intents and feels are great except when people actually start doing the intent that's supposed to be a feel and not reality. Intents that are opposite of reality will help some and generally hurt just as many if not more.

That's why it's not semantics and what is actually happening does matter. Rather than saying well the best ever didn't have to know, they just figured it out. Most people aren't the best ever and won't ever just figure it out and as a golf instructor you should know what is happening in actuality and not just what it feels like is happening. And if you don't know you should be looking for answers. That way you can help people that will never just figure it out and will many times take feels and intents literally and end up doing the opposite of what is intended.

[MonteScheinblum]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1447173697' post='12579324']
[quote name='mizunostaffer' timestamp='1447173406' post='12579290']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1447172485' post='12579200']
[quote name='mizunostaffer' timestamp='1447171504' post='12579100']
Somebody give me a reason why the pivot decelerates in a good swing then

Is it because the muscular thrust of the first part of the downswing cannot sustain speed?

Is it because the club starts to create force and slow the arms down?

Is it because the body is already quite open at impact and the weight of trailing parts slows it down?

I notice that all parts slow down the more horizontal their direction becomes?

Is the club head speeding up as the hands slow down an equal and opposite reaction force?

Anybody?
[/quote]

This has already been covered extensively. The shoulders speeding up the rate they are turning relative to hips increases moi and slows down the hips, then the arms speeding up relative to shoulders does the same thing and so on.

If the pivot never decelerated the arms and club could never move at a faster rate than what the pivot was turning. This would result in very low clubhead speeds. This can be seen in the graph of "amateur 2" I posted. His hips, shoulders, and arms are moving the fastest at impact yet the slowest clubhead speed
[/quote]
Fascinating

So all the slowing down is involuntary in a good swing and not something that should be strived for . Most people don't get the arms moving fast enough to begin with along with correct direction so they don't experience deceleration near impact ?
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It absolutely should be strived for. It's a byproduct of proper sequencing. It shouldn't be consciously decelerating. But you should by striving for a sequence that causes it to happen.

Everything is relative but the shoulders must speed up their rate relative to hips and the arms must speed up their rate relative to the shoulders for the decelerate to happen. Many just spin with their pivot and try to rotate hard as they can and never transfer the speed outward to the club
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This concept is missed by so many.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CF7OnW4XDck