Bradley Hughes- Right Arm and Pivot

[Roll Tide 885]

Monte, any thoughts about when the bat's barrel is going the fastest, before or after contact? If you don't want to answer that's fine.

[MonteScheinblum]

[quote name='Roll Tide 885' timestamp='1447176474' post='12579584']
Monte, any thoughts about when the bat's barrel is going the fastest, before or after contact? If you don't want to answer that's fine.
[/quote]

Before and what's the point of the question other than trolling?

[Roll Tide 885]

[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1447176611' post='12579598']
[quote name='Roll Tide 885' timestamp='1447176474' post='12579584']
Monte, any thoughts about when the bat's barrel is going the fastest, before or after contact? If you don't want to answer that's fine.
[/quote]

Before and what's the point of the question other than trolling?
[/quote]

Legit question in my opinion. Are you basing your response on something measured, intuition, short to long through, long through short to, Lau, playing at a high level. When you teed the ball up to shoulder level in one of your videos is the fastest moment on the left of you when the wrists roll, or on the right of you while beginning to unload?

[Grayback1973]

[quote name='Jinks Links' timestamp='1447175319' post='12579456']I like what Brad is saying better, especially if it came from tour experience.[/quote]First post.....hmmmm

[MonteScheinblum]

[quote name='Roll Tide 885' timestamp='1447176988' post='12579640']
[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1447176611' post='12579598']
[quote name='Roll Tide 885' timestamp='1447176474' post='12579584']
Monte, any thoughts about when the bat's barrel is going the fastest, before or after contact? If you don't want to answer that's fine.
[/quote]

Before and what's the point of the question other than trolling?
[/quote]

Legit question in my opinion. Are you basing your response on something measured, intuition, short to long through, long through short through, Lau, playing at a high level. When you teed the ball up to shoulder level in one of your videos is the fastest moment on the left of you when the wrists roll, or on the right of you while beginning to unload?
[/quote]

All of the above.

Is the sky blue Coat/Slot?

[bhughesgolf]

Monte
You were a long drive competitor...
Did you ever try not to accelerate to the finish of your swing?

[Roll Tide 885]

[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1447177337' post='12579676']
[quote name='Roll Tide 885' timestamp='1447176988' post='12579640']
[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1447176611' post='12579598']
[quote name='Roll Tide 885' timestamp='1447176474' post='12579584']
Monte, any thoughts about when the bat's barrel is going the fastest, before or after contact? If you don't want to answer that's fine.
[/quote]

Before and what's the point of the question other than trolling?
[/quote]

Legit question in my opinion. Are you basing your response on something measured, intuition, short to long through, long through short through, Lau, playing at a high level. When you teed the ball up to shoulder level in one of your videos is the fastest moment on the left of you when the wrists roll, or on the right of you while beginning to unload?
[/quote]

All of the above.

Is the sky blue Coat/Slot?
[/quote]

That's seems odd. If intuition, which was part of my list, was part of your decision calculus when claiming "all of the above", how do you reconcile that short to long, and long to short have different arrival sequences though the zone and affects barrel speed accordingly? What about answering the teed ball question too, that would be a big help?

[Fort Worth Pro]

[quote name='bhughesgolf' timestamp='1447177889' post='12579730']
Monte
You were a long drive competitor...
Did you ever try not to accelerate to the finish of your swing?
[/quote]

Does abs claim that the pivot ACTUALLY DOES accelerate and it isn't just an intent. Simple question. Why won't you answer it? I legitimately don't know but had heard that. Trying to clear up what it is you guys believe actually happens

[bhughesgolf]

Well what do you do FWP?
You try keep it moving?
Do you just hope it keeps moving?
Do you stop it and just slap?
Do you get the left shoulder to move farther from the ball after youve struck it?
Do you just let the left shoulder go up and sling the arms through?

[MonteScheinblum]

[quote name='bhughesgolf' timestamp='1447177889' post='12579730']
Monte
You were a long drive competitor...
Did you ever try not to accelerate to the finish of your swing?
[/quote]

I still compete. Then and now...

Let me answer it this way. I never had an intent to accelerate all the way through.

Not trying to be evasive. My intent was/is to stay behind the ball and undock/unhinge the right wrist as quickly as possible.

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='bhughesgolf' timestamp='1447178403' post='12579780']
Well what do you do FWP?
You try keep it moving?
Do you just hope it keeps moving?
Do you stop it and just slap?
Do you get the left shoulder to move farther from the ball after youve struck it?
Do you just let the left shoulder go up and sling the arms through?
[/quote]

Here's the issue you don't seem to grasp. Things can decelerate without stop. Nobody said anything about stalling and slapping at it. The fact you think that is the same thing as what is being discussed is the issue.

[ej002]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1447175866' post='12579518']
[quote name='Jinks Links' timestamp='1447175319' post='12579456']
I like what Brad is saying better, especially if it came from tour experience.
[/quote]

Except nobody on tour is doing it. Nobody on tour accelerates pivot all the way to impact let alone after. It is what high handicap amateurs do though.

Intents and feels are great except when people actually start doing the intent that's supposed to be a feel and not reality. Intents that are opposite of reality will help some and generally hurt just as many if not more.

That's why it's not semantics and what is actually happening does matter. Rather than saying well the best ever didn't have to know, they just figured it out. Most people aren't the best ever and won't ever just figure it out and as a golf instructor you should know what is happening in actuality and not just what it feels like is happening. And if you don't know you should be looking for answers. That way you can help people that will never just figure it out and will many times take feels and intents literally and end up doing the opposite of what is intended.
[/quote]

Like how many Slice guys tried to just pivot and got spinny hips arms way behind. The way Brad wants it, guys will get the same issues.

[quote name='bhughesgolf' timestamp='1447178403' post='12579780']
Well what do you do FWP?
You try keep it moving?
Do you just hope it keeps moving?
Do you stop it and just slap?
Do you get the left shoulder to move farther from the ball after youve struck it?
Do you just let the left shoulder go up and sling the arms through?
[/quote]

LOL. You are back? Did you think we just forgot about those charts? Did you want to comment on them? Did you want to answer FWP's question? Or are you going to insist on Jack knowing everything because thought he "accelerated". BTW, Jack was a pure swinger. No chance in hell he could accelerate through and have the club kick out. It is impossible - "like gravity must not exist" impossible. Maybe you play golf in outer space?

[northgolf]

[quote name='bhughesgolf' timestamp='1447178403' post='12579780']
Well what do you do FWP?
You try keep it moving?
Do you just hope it keeps moving?
Do you stop it and just slap?
Do you get the left shoulder to move farther from the ball after youve struck it?
Do you just let the left shoulder go up and sling the arms through?
[/quote]

So much evasion for such a simple question.

[Fort Worth Pro]

[quote name='bhughesgolf' timestamp='1447178403' post='12579780']
Well what do you do FWP?
You try keep it moving?
Do you just hope it keeps moving?
Do you stop it and just slap?
Do you get the left shoulder to move farther from the ball after youve struck it?
Do you just let the left shoulder go up and sling the arms through?
[/quote]

Duck and dodge, duck and dodge

Tell ya what, I will post up some swings I took Friday along with the accompanying 3d AMM body data and gears club data. Hopefully tomorrow. We took some 5 irons and drivers and I will get both. I assure you it isn't a stall and sling but there is a definite decel of the pivot. It's a difference in understanding what actually happens vs. pseudo science.

[Silky]

I could not rest with the problem unsettled. I googled and find scientific answer at

http://www.tutelman....hp#consequences

 

Here are some excerpts

 

 

• The first animation maintains body torque through impact -- that is, it keeps accelerating the body rotation through impact. The clubhead starts with a lot of lag, and really gets moving (develops a lot of momentum) late in the downswing. The clubhead has just about caught up with the hands as it impacts the ball, giving a flat or slightly bowed wrist position at this position.
  
• The second animation starts out the same, and maintains acceleration for the first 200msec of the downswing. Then it gets seriously torque-deprived. That is what we mean by "quitting on the swing"; we don't apply energetic body turn through the ball. Because we're only human, the loss of acceleration takes effect before we get to the ball -- earlier than the quitter intended. You can see that the hands (the red dots) are slowing down late in the sequence; the red dots are closer together, so we know they are getting slower. Meanwhile, the clubhead (the gray dots) has attained quite a bit of momentum, even after just 200msec. True, not as much as if we had continued to accelerate the rotation, but enough to catch and pass the hands as they slow down. At this point, it's just geometry. The last tens of milliseconds before impact, the slowing hands and not-slowing clubhead result in a cupped wrist -- and all the evils that the cupped wrist brings.
  

[iteachgolf]

I could not rest with the problem unsettled. I googled and find scientific answer at

http://www.tutelman....hp#consequences

 

Here are some excerpts

 

 

• The first animation maintains body torque through impact -- that is, it keeps accelerating the body rotation through impact. The clubhead starts with a lot of lag, and really gets moving (develops a lot of momentum) late in the downswing. The clubhead has just about caught up with the hands as it impacts the ball, giving a flat or slightly bowed wrist position at this position.
  
• The second animation starts out the same, and maintains acceleration for the first 200msec of the downswing. Then it gets seriously torque-deprived. That is what we mean by "quitting on the swing"; we don't apply energetic body turn through the ball. Because we're only human, the loss of acceleration takes effect before we get to the ball -- earlier than the quitter intended. You can see that the hands (the red dots) are slowing down late in the sequence; the red dots are closer together, so we know they are getting slower. Meanwhile, the clubhead (the gray dots) has attained quite a bit of momentum, even after just 200msec. True, not as much as if we had continued to accelerate the rotation, but enough to catch and pass the hands as they slow down. At this point, it's just geometry. The last tens of milliseconds before impact, the slowing hands and not-slowing clubhead result in a cupped wrist -- and all the evils that the cupped wrist brings.
  

 

He is discussing not having torque by quitting on it. Who here is saying to quit on it? Again deceleration due to proper sequencing and a stall and flip are two entirely different things.

 

Fact is the body is not accelerating all the way until impact except in high handicap golfers who produce lower clubhead speeds. Trying to accelerate the pivot all the way to the finish for many can cause huge issues. And as the chards show if pivot is still accelerating at impact, even though it's moving at a much faster speed, it's producing less clubhead speed

[JPGolf FL]

I could not rest with the problem unsettled. I googled and find scientific answer at

http://www.tutelman....hp#consequences

 

Here are some excerpts

 

 

• The first animation maintains body torque through impact -- that is, it keeps accelerating the body rotation through impact. The clubhead starts with a lot of lag, and really gets moving (develops a lot of momentum) late in the downswing. The clubhead has just about caught up with the hands as it impacts the ball, giving a flat or slightly bowed wrist position at this position.
  
• The second animation starts out the same, and maintains acceleration for the first 200msec of the downswing. Then it gets seriously torque-deprived. That is what we mean by "quitting on the swing"; we don't apply energetic body turn through the ball. Because we're only human, the loss of acceleration takes effect before we get to the ball -- earlier than the quitter intended. You can see that the hands (the red dots) are slowing down late in the sequence; the red dots are closer together, so we know they are getting slower. Meanwhile, the clubhead (the gray dots) has attained quite a bit of momentum, even after just 200msec. True, not as much as if we had continued to accelerate the rotation, but enough to catch and pass the hands as they slow down. At this point, it's just geometry. The last tens of milliseconds before impact, the slowing hands and not-slowing clubhead result in a cupped wrist -- and all the evils that the cupped wrist brings.
  

Torque and acceleration are NOT the same thing.

[MonteScheinblum]

Stall flip and body parts decelerating in sequence coming into impact are completely different moves.

If KS sequence charts are too much to look at, get GolfMTRX on your iPhone and see the deceleration patterns they have on the sample swings. Then take some yourself with different intents and have a club head speed monitor of some sort handy.

Compare the data. More efficient hip deceleration leads to more club head speed.

[Silky]

I could not rest with the problem unsettled. I googled and find scientific answer at

http://www.tutelman....hp#consequences

 

Here are some excerpts

 

• The first animation maintains body torque through impact -- that is, it keeps accelerating the body rotation through impact. The clubhead starts with a lot of lag, and really gets moving (develops a lot of momentum) late in the downswing. The clubhead has just about caught up with the hands as it impacts the ball, giving a flat or slightly bowed wrist position at this position.
  
• The second animation starts out the same, and maintains acceleration for the first 200msec of the downswing. Then it gets seriously torque-deprived. That is what we mean by "quitting on the swing"; we don't apply energetic body turn through the ball. Because we're only human, the loss of acceleration takes effect before we get to the ball -- earlier than the quitter intended. You can see that the hands (the red dots) are slowing down late in the sequence; the red dots are closer together, so we know they are getting slower. Meanwhile, the clubhead (the gray dots) has attained quite a bit of momentum, even after just 200msec. True, not as much as if we had continued to accelerate the rotation, but enough to catch and pass the hands as they slow down. At this point, it's just geometry. The last tens of milliseconds before impact, the slowing hands and not-slowing clubhead result in a cupped wrist -- and all the evils that the cupped wrist brings.
  

Torque and acceleration are NOT the same thing.

 

Oh yes. Newton 2nd equation. Angular acceleration x MOI = NET torque

Net torque = pivot torque - reaction torque from the arms and club

[northgolf]

I could not rest with the problem unsettled. I googled and find scientific answer at

http://www.tutelman....hp#consequences

 

Here are some excerpts

 

 

• The first animation maintains body torque through impact -- that is, it keeps accelerating the body rotation through impact. The clubhead starts with a lot of lag, and really gets moving (develops a lot of momentum) late in the downswing. The clubhead has just about caught up with the hands as it impacts the ball, giving a flat or slightly bowed wrist position at this position.
  
• The second animation starts out the same, and maintains acceleration for the first 200msec of the downswing. Then it gets seriously torque-deprived. That is what we mean by "quitting on the swing"; we don't apply energetic body turn through the ball. Because we're only human, the loss of acceleration takes effect before we get to the ball -- earlier than the quitter intended. You can see that the hands (the red dots) are slowing down late in the sequence; the red dots are closer together, so we know they are getting slower. Meanwhile, the clubhead (the gray dots) has attained quite a bit of momentum, even after just 200msec. True, not as much as if we had continued to accelerate the rotation, but enough to catch and pass the hands as they slow down. At this point, it's just geometry. The last tens of milliseconds before impact, the slowing hands and not-slowing clubhead result in a cupped wrist -- and all the evils that the cupped wrist brings.
  

 

You are confused.

 

Torque is not acceleration, it is moment of force. A golfer can maintain consistent torque and still have the hands and hips decelerating prior to impact due to the change in the moment of inertia of the club head as it moves further from the center of rotation. The first animation illustrates this point quite well (measure the distance the hands travel in the frames before impact - that distance is the same or decreasing which mean the hands aren't accelerating. Thank you for proving that point.

[JPGolf FL]

I could not rest with the problem unsettled. I googled and find scientific answer at

http://www.tutelman....hp#consequences

 

Here are some excerpts

 

• The first animation maintains body torque through impact -- that is, it keeps accelerating the body rotation through impact. The clubhead starts with a lot of lag, and really gets moving (develops a lot of momentum) late in the downswing. The clubhead has just about caught up with the hands as it impacts the ball, giving a flat or slightly bowed wrist position at this position.
  
• The second animation starts out the same, and maintains acceleration for the first 200msec of the downswing. Then it gets seriously torque-deprived. That is what we mean by "quitting on the swing"; we don't apply energetic body turn through the ball. Because we're only human, the loss of acceleration takes effect before we get to the ball -- earlier than the quitter intended. You can see that the hands (the red dots) are slowing down late in the sequence; the red dots are closer together, so we know they are getting slower. Meanwhile, the clubhead (the gray dots) has attained quite a bit of momentum, even after just 200msec. True, not as much as if we had continued to accelerate the rotation, but enough to catch and pass the hands as they slow down. At this point, it's just geometry. The last tens of milliseconds before impact, the slowing hands and not-slowing clubhead result in a cupped wrist -- and all the evils that the cupped wrist brings.
  

Torque and acceleration are NOT the same thing.

 

Oh yes. Newton 2nd equation. Angular acceleration x MOI = NET torque

Net torque = pivot torque - reaction torque from the arms and club

You just proved the whole point being made here. You said acceleration IS torque. Then you posted an equation to try to prove it. The equation involves MOI as well! MOI being more resistance created by the radius increasing = less acceleration. So the torque(the force being applied) is the same but the resistance or "MOI" created by the right arm straightening causes less acceleration. So you just proved our point.

[iteachgolf]

I could not rest with the problem unsettled. I googled and find scientific answer at

http://www.tutelman....hp#consequences

 

Here are some excerpts

 

• The first animation maintains body torque through impact -- that is, it keeps accelerating the body rotation through impact. The clubhead starts with a lot of lag, and really gets moving (develops a lot of momentum) late in the downswing. The clubhead has just about caught up with the hands as it impacts the ball, giving a flat or slightly bowed wrist position at this position.
  
• The second animation starts out the same, and maintains acceleration for the first 200msec of the downswing. Then it gets seriously torque-deprived. That is what we mean by "quitting on the swing"; we don't apply energetic body turn through the ball. Because we're only human, the loss of acceleration takes effect before we get to the ball -- earlier than the quitter intended. You can see that the hands (the red dots) are slowing down late in the sequence; the red dots are closer together, so we know they are getting slower. Meanwhile, the clubhead (the gray dots) has attained quite a bit of momentum, even after just 200msec. True, not as much as if we had continued to accelerate the rotation, but enough to catch and pass the hands as they slow down. At this point, it's just geometry. The last tens of milliseconds before impact, the slowing hands and not-slowing clubhead result in a cupped wrist -- and all the evils that the cupped wrist brings.
  

Torque and acceleration are NOT the same thing.

 

Oh yes. Newton 2nd equation. Angular acceleration x MOI = NET torque

Net torque = pivot torque - reaction torque from the arms and club

 

You're proving the point. The increase in MOI is exactly what decelerates the previous segment. His model has one arm and is flawed. It is completely negating the left arm angle to the chest and the right arm changing flex affecting the system.

 

By your own equation

 

Acceleration = torque/moi. So as moi increases acceleration decreases while torque remains constant.

 

Guess what acceleration decreasing is also called decelerating. And it's cause is an increase in MOI exactly as I've said many times including in this thread

[oikos1]

This has become quite humorous. Those trying to explain acceleration/deceleration in the golf swing are using golf specific examples. The ABS cult gives examples like baseball, pool, and battering rams. WTF?

[Arafel]

[quote name='oikos1' timestamp='1447181617' post='12580036']
This has become quite humorous. Those trying to explain acceleration/deceleration in the golf swing are using golf specific examples. The ABS cult gives examples like baseball, pool, and battering rams. WTF?
[/quote]

This has become comical.



.

[ej002]

This is third tier maybe cellar

[Bodegabombadier]

If anyone doesn't know why I want to completely disassociate myself with this clown and the freakshow/cult that is ABS this thread is a really good example. How dare you lie to me in a public setting such as this Bradley Hughes, you and your business partner are completely ignorant, utter frauds and the epitome of the term "bait and switch".

The two of you are a black eye and an embarrassment to the profession. I wish you would both just go away.

[Roll Tide 885]

Pretty clear to me that Monte doesn't know much about moving a baseball bat, which is quite surprising. If he did he would know the difference between short to long and long to short, v. Lau and how those 3 styles deliver the barrel differently and where the barrel moves the quickest.

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='Roll Tide 885' timestamp='1447183139' post='12580162']
Pretty clear to me that Monte doesn't know much about moving a baseball bat, which is quite surprising. If he did he would know the difference between short to long and long to short, v. Lau and how those 3 styles deliver the barrel differently and where the barrel moves the quickest.
[/quote]

Still doesn't change that the bat slows down immediately after impact with the ball. This is a fact. Clubhead slows down immediately after contact as well.

Your delusions are hilarious

[Bodegabombadier]

[quote name='bhughesgolf' timestamp='1447162131' post='12578336']
Alec
You are a sad person. I had nothing to do with the "business deal" you talk about being renegged on. I cant delete posts on ABS site unless they are reported. Even the students you reckon were messed up from ABS werent even my students. Your entire gripe is with John not with me. For goodness sake grow some balls and act like a man for once in your life. Lying may win you friends but never respect or peace
[/quote]
You have admin controls on the forum, if you don't know how to go into the phpbb control panel and delete a user's posts I can easily show you, it's a single command. And I don't reckon anything, I don't like you or what you do or anything you stand for. You make my skin crawl you're so shady, evasive and contrary to everything I believe in and that's you, not just John.

Every single time you embarrass yourself in public just like you're doing now you prove why I feel ashamed of ever being associated with the two of you. How are you still in business operating the way you do, who would actually give you money for this abhorrent garbage?

[Ghost of Snead]

Brad - nice post over @ SITD ... and kind of childish to be making fun of another pro's scores don't ya think ?

http://www.secretinthedirt.com/index.php/forum/211-the-swing/16767-bradley-hughes-the-golf-swing?start=7675#97293