Bernhard Langer's new putting stroke (Merged)

[Vindog]

Not everyone who was opposed to anchoring is complaining about Langer's new method. I'm fine with what he's doing. Perfectly legal.

 

It is my opinion, though, that the powers that be are using the anchor ban as a means to an end and we'll see a rule limiting putter length at some point in the future.

 

This is an interesting take, and one that I'll be paying attention to moving forward. You very well may be right.

[SHIVAN]

http://www.golfchannel.com/media/bernhard-langers-new-putting-stroke-legal/?cid=facebook-gc-v-bernhard-langers-new-putting-stroke-legal-021516

 

A long GC piece on this issue.

[Socrates]

http://www.golfchann...ke-legal-021516

 

A long GC piece on this issue.

They also will be having a piece on the Champion's Learning Center tonite with Dave Marr and Langer on a putting green showing exactly what he does. A little of it was on the MD but I didn't tape it.

 

Interesting point the panel made on the above link, was that the Sr. Tour guys seem to be saying "screw you" to the Ruling Bodies. I can see Peter Dawson having some migraines because his pet is being thwarted. That is what happens when you change a Rule and are afraid of getting sued, so you do it half-a&&ed and now you are really in a pickle to make it right. They might have an easier time of it since I don't think there is any major OEM making a long/belly putter anymore.

 

Edit: I am aware P. Dawson is retired.

[Vindog]

http://www.golfchann...ke-legal-021516

 

A long GC piece on this issue.

 

Thanks for posting that. Some good points in there, especially what this might mean in other events where ROs are not all over the course.

 

Also they mentioned that Langer approached the ROs and explained what he intended to do, and what to watch for.

[2putttom]

I'll say this again, beating a bunch of washed up has-beens and never-weres doesn't count for much. So long as this is a Senior Tour issue nobody will care.

 

What do I think? I think it's something which should outlawed in regular men's events. No anchoring, no long putters, etc. As a senior tour issue, I say let them do whatever makes their play more watchable. Let them all carry niblicks as a 15th club to avoid the yips for all I care.

 

The real question is whether some who can putt would ever seek anything but a traditional means and to date the answer is a clear no. To me, that makes the Langers and Scotts of the world mere footnotes.

 

Langer is getting to be the Tiger Woods of the Senior Tour and still no one cares about him...to me, there's justice in that, lol.

Geez...What you got your taxes done and found out your not gettin' anything back?

[SHIVAN]

They brought up something of which I was unaware, and may actually now believe that he is not anchored when making the stroke, most of the time. I was unaware that he is actively anchoring to setup, then moving away from the anchor to make the stroke, as a pre-shot routine.

 

It could be that many of the stills, and a lot of what I was watching was his pre-shot routine, and I wasn't disassociating them. Or he might be on such a razor thin line, as they mentioned in the GC piece, that he is actually anchored (unknowingly/unwittingly) on some of the strokes.

 

I swear on that first video I posted, you can see his arm relax away from his chest as the putt rolls out half way there.

[Socrates]

I think Mello is right, no one really cares until it is done on the Big Tour. Can't wait to see Pettersson and Clark pull that setup out of the bag. The phones are going to light up and Johnny will have an aneurysm.

[cardoustie]

I used a long putter for two seasons. I have a Yes Natalie and a Scotty Big Sur C

 

REALLY GREAT for inside 15 feet, not so great for long putts or when used as a Texas wedge ... and even harder with the putter not anchored I'd imagine

 

With both putters over the weekend it was very easy to putt Bernard style from inside 15 feet in my basement. It's just the same push move with your right hand. With standard putters and a pencil grip the move is almost exactly the same as well

 

Footnote: I have the Yes at 44" and the Big Sur (though adjustable) at 46" so maxing a length at 48" would make no difference

 

As one chap said above ... I also find with a longer putter cut shorter it is easier as you mimic a standard putting posture more closely

 

Not sure that some are surprised as Adam Scott said he'd try this same method months ago

 

Last .. Bernard is the least likely guy on ANY tour to cheat. He is a purist. There's some great old stories of him chastising players for borderline stuff ... like their direction of approach to a ball in long grass etc

[Chief Illiniwek]

Not everyone who was opposed to anchoring is complaining about Langer's new method. I'm fine with what he's doing. Perfectly legal.

 

It is my opinion, though, that the powers that be are using the anchor ban as a means to an end and we'll see a rule limiting putter length at some point in the future.

 

This is an interesting take, and one that I'll be paying attention to moving forward. You very well may be right.

 

When talk of the ban first started there was speculation that manufacturers may sue based on being stuck with inventory that was no longer legal. By banning anchoring rather than specific equipment the USGA bypassed that possibility. Pure speculation by me but now all they have to do is wait a few years and manufacturers will have much less of a vested interest. At that point the USGA could go forward with a length limit.

 

And I keep saying its the USGA, but actually this was jointly done with the R&A and if I remember correctly the R&A powers that be were more anxious for the ban than the USGA according to some sources I read, but I couldn't begin to tell you where I saw that.

[MelloYello]

I'll say this again, beating a bunch of washed up has-beens and never-weres doesn't count for much. So long as this is a Senior Tour issue nobody will care.

 

What do I think? I think it's something which should outlawed in regular men's events. No anchoring, no long putters, etc. As a senior tour issue, I say let them do whatever makes their play more watchable. Let them all carry niblicks as a 15th club to avoid the yips for all I care.

 

The real question is whether some who can putt would ever seek anything but a traditional means and to date the answer is a clear no. To me, that makes the Langers and Scotts of the world mere footnotes.

 

Langer is getting to be the Tiger Woods of the Senior Tour and still no one cares about him...to me, there's justice in that, lol.

Geez...What you got your taxes done and found out your not gettin' anything back?

 

 

Frrst and foremost I'd like to thank God for giving everyone else so much and me so little...

 

 

...now, if you'll excuse me I've got to go home and put some water in Bucknasty's momma's dish.

[golf9596]

This rule is cut and dry. Don't anchor the club to the body. I felt this would be an issue for me in the few tourMents I play in so I started to not anchor last year. To avoid any issues I just shorten my putter 2 inches which allows me to still address the putter with the same eye line and yet is away from my chest. I thought this was a simple fix and allowed me to still use the putter with similar results. The only issue is th "PC" police who think they know the rules. I'm tired of having to defend my position. Right is Right.

 

"You know that putter is illegal now, right?"

 

LOL…..Vindog at least we get it!!!!!!!!!

[MelloYello]

I'm not being PC at all.

 

Firstly, that concept doesn't apply. There is no "politically-correct" take on this issue.

 

Secondly, legality represents the bare minimum of what society expects in terms of one's actions. Therefore, any use of legality to claim the moral high ground is weak at best.

 

Thirdly, if you putt using a non-traditional method it's because you suck at putting. If you don't like that opinion, disagree and move on your way.

 

 

 

It is true that everyone has an opinion on what you do. That does not however mean that anyone cares what you do.

[KevCarter]

I'm not being PC at all.

 

Firstly, that concept doesn't apply. There is no "politically-correct" take on this issue.

 

Secondly, legality represents the bare minimum of what society expects in terms of one's actions. Therefore, any use of legality to claim the moral high ground is weak at best.

 

Thirdly, if you putt using a non-traditional method it's because you suck at putting. If you don't like that opinion, disagree and move on your way.

 

 

 

It is true that everyone has an opinion on what you do. That does not however mean that anyone cares what you do.

 

If you suck at putting, you find a way, within the rules, to get it done. Langer has done EXACTLY that.

 

If you don't like that opinion, disagree and move on your way.

[MelloYello]

I'm not being PC at all.

 

Firstly, that concept doesn't apply. There is no "politically-correct" take on this issue.

 

Secondly, legality represents the bare minimum of what society expects in terms of one's actions. Therefore, any use of legality to claim the moral high ground is weak at best.

 

Thirdly, if you putt using a non-traditional method it's because you suck at putting. If you don't like that opinion, disagree and move on your way.

 

 

 

It is true that everyone has an opinion on what you do. That does not however mean that anyone cares what you do.

 

If you suck at putting, you find a way, within the rules, to get it done. Langer has done EXACTLY that.

 

If you don't like that opinion, disagree and move on your way.

 

I don't mind that opinion. I think it's valid. I'd be happy to move on if people didn't start name-calling.

 

What I mind is being insulted and called "the PC police" because of my view.

 

Again, the conversation doesn't end with what's legal and what's not. If that were the case, then rules and laws would be static. They are not.

 

How we govern ourselves is always up for debate. ;)

[larrybud]

Clearly not anchoring. I guess if the "purists" wanted to make sure, they could have him take his shirt off to putt. You can see it isn't anchored on any longish putt and it looks really awkward. On a windy day I can't see it working too well. You have to hand it to him at 58 he's still kicking butt.

 

I don't know. Langer might have a hairy chest, so if his hands are touching his hair, is that anchoring? ;-)

 

I think this just goes to show how silly the rule is in the first place.

[KevCarter]

Clearly not anchoring. I guess if the "purists" wanted to make sure, they could have him take his shirt off to putt. You can see it isn't anchored on any longish putt and it looks really awkward. On a windy day I can't see it working too well. You have to hand it to him at 58 he's still kicking butt.

 

I don't know. Langer might have a hairy chest, so if his hands are touching his hair, is that anchoring? ;-)

 

I think this just goes to show how silly the rule is in the first place.

 

Amen Brother!

[BenSnead]

Clearly not anchoring. I guess if the "purists" wanted to make sure, they could have him take his shirt off to putt. You can see it isn't anchored on any longish putt and it looks really awkward. On a windy day I can't see it working too well. You have to hand it to him at 58 he's still kicking butt.

 

I don't know. Langer might have a hairy chest, so if his hands are touching his hair, is that anchoring? ;-)

 

I think this just goes to show how silly the rule is in the first place.

 

Amen Brother!

 

Yep, I was on here literally the day this nonsense was announced talking about how stupid and unenforceable it was.

I think you were on those threads.

Somebody has to judge between anchored and 1mm from anchored. Through a shirt.

 

The haters said "no it'll be fine"

 

I guess fine is calling a HOF champion a cheater when he's not.

[SHIVAN]

I don't know. Langer might have a hairy chest, so if his hands are touching his hair, is that anchoring? ;-)

 

I think this just goes to show how silly the rule is in the first place.

 

I mostly agree with the overall point you're making. I must say though, how about those other silly things like brushing a leaf in a hazard while setting up to make a shot from inside the hazard? I mean it's only a leaf. Maybe you didn't actually brush it, maybe it was just "hairy" and you touched the "hair", not the actual leaf? Or maybe the wind from the club moved the leaf, not your club itself?

[SHIVAN]

I guess fine is calling a HOF champion a cheater when he's not.

 

That's kind of my problem with it too. For one, because I watched it and thought he is/was anchoring, even though I know 100% that there are rules officials with just about every main group on the last day of a tournament and they would certainly be watching things. I was at a crossroads because I thought he was anchoring, and strangely didn't even care because I think the rule change is stupid, and the enforcement of it is insane.

 

If he says he is not anchoring, then it is not an enforceable rule? That was the takeaway from the GC piece I posted....

[rony]

Great being able to play around 50 rounds of golf each year and not have to be concerned about any of this. Our foursome (All Retired) plays 18 holes twice a week. We all normally shoot between 83 and 90 from the Whites, so we have a lot of fun with our little $2.00 Nassau: (2 front, 2 back 2 total.) After the round, we head for the bar, settle up, have a couple of beers, and go home. No talk or worries about grooves, anchoring, # of clubs in the bag, conforming this or conforming that. I have never played golf with anybody that used a "Broom or Belly Putter." I have never even seen one. :rolleyes:

[larrybud]

I don't know. Langer might have a hairy chest, so if his hands are touching his hair, is that anchoring? ;-)

 

I think this just goes to show how silly the rule is in the first place.

 

I mostly agree with the overall point you're making. I must say though, how about those other silly things like brushing a leaf in a hazard while setting up to make a shot from inside the hazard? I mean it's only a leaf. Maybe you didn't actually brush it, maybe it was just "hairy" and you touched the "hair", not the actual leaf? Or maybe the wind from the club moved the leaf, not your club itself?

 

There are a lot of silly rules in golf, IMO, however this one affects 30-40% of the shots Langer and everyone else makes, and for what purpose? The idea (apparently) behind the rule is that anchoring gives an advantage. But being 1/2" off his chest is perfectly legal, yet offers no advantage? That's why it's silly. It just seems like micromanagement to me which tried to solve a problem which didn't exist in the first place. I guess an analogy I could offer would be a guy who's $100,000 in debt who has a $800 a month car payment, and decides to give up his $5 coffee he has once a day to solve his money problems. It just seems to insignificant to me, and the confusion, uncertainty, and now a debate on what's legal and what isn't and what passes the smell test outweighs any positives that may come from this ban (and that's assuming there are positives).

 

BTW, for the record, I have no axe to grind, as I'm not a guy who plays with a long putter (in fact, I probably have one of the shortest putters out of anybody here, at about 29"). Ok, that didn't come out right....

[scotee]

If indeed intent is part of the wording of this rule all bets are off. No one can police intent. I imagine Adam Scott and Tim Clark are watching Langer closely. If he is successful with his micro changed technique and successfully defends that technique, there will be others. The rules guys will be pulling out their hair. It could be fun to watch.

[Holy Moses]

If indeed intent is part of the wording of this rule all bets are off. No one can police intent. I imagine Adam Scott and Tim Clark are watching Langer closely. If he is successful with his micro changed technique and successfully defends that technique, there will be others. The rules guys will be pulling out their hair. It could be fun to watch.

 

Head of USGA rules watched Langer last weekend and said he was fine. Just make sure you aren't anchoring above the elbow. Below that is fine if he goes back to Kuchar style.

[iBanesto]

Don't worry haters, Langer will probably struggle immensely when it gets windy...

[Vindog]

If indeed intent is part of the wording of this rule all bets are off. No one can police intent. I imagine Adam Scott and Tim Clark are watching Langer closely. If he is successful with his micro changed technique and successfully defends that technique, there will be others. The rules guys will be pulling out their hair. It could be fun to watch.

 

I just don't think Adam Scott is a good reader of greens, so unless he can anchor his eyeballs....

[Vindog]

Great being able to play around 50 rounds of golf each year and not have to be concerned about any of this. Our foursome (All Retired) plays 18 holes twice a week. We all normally shoot between 83 and 90 from the Whites, so we have a lot of fun with our little $2.00 Nassau: (2 front, 2 back 2 total.) After the round, we head for the bar, settle up, have a couple of beers, and go home. No talk or worries about grooves, anchoring, # of clubs in the bag, conforming this or conforming that. I have never played golf with anybody that used a "Broom or Belly Putter." I have never even seen one. :rolleyes:

 

Someone who isn't concerned wouldn't really be posting, but let's say one of your comrades decided to put one in play, within the rules of golf. What would you do? Cease to be his playing comrade? Ridicule your friend? Hamper his enjoyment?

[larrybud]

If indeed intent is part of the wording of this rule all bets are off. No one can police intent. I imagine Adam Scott and Tim Clark are watching Langer closely. If he is successful with his micro changed technique and successfully defends that technique, there will be others. The rules guys will be pulling out their hair. It could be fun to watch.

 

Head of USGA rules watched Langer last weekend and said he was fine.

 

Yeah, I would have loved to hear what was said behind closed doors!

 

I was trying to think of what this kind of rule reminds me of, and it's almost like the powers in charge making stuff up just to justify their existence.

[nbg352]

Cheat

 

Care to elaborate?

 

Langer found a loophole that allows him to get around the rule while still using the same equipment and virtually the same stroke. Legally it's alright only because his left hand has moved 1/2" from where it original was. I suspect that according to most people it'd probably constitute an infringement on the spirit of the rule. Then again, maybe it doesn't since technically he's not "anchored" at any point.

 

It's really a grey area.

 

Let's avoid that moral debate though. There are thousands of things in life wherein we do and don't violate the spirit of rules/laws while still staying legal. That's between a person and themselves.

The rules expressly allow Langer's style of putting. The spirit of the game, as defined, remains intact and therefore is not open for a discussion of morals. If it is legal, it is within the spirit and therefore it is above reproach morally.

[big truck]

 

Agree on that one. In the one I posted, it's clearly attached on the long putt, then detached on the brush in. As I said, I couldn't possibly care less if they ding him, or not. It was a stupid rule change.

 

I am quoting only because it is rare on Wrx to see the couldnt care less/could care less statement used properly.

 

Carry on.

[SHIVAN]

The rules expressly allow Langer's style of putting. The spirit of the game, as defined, remains intact and therefore is not open for a discussion of morals. If it is legal, it is within the spirit and therefore it is above reproach morally.

 

Not expressly. If you watch the video at the top of the page, and even listen to his description of his pre-shot, you will see that he could actually be in violation of the rule "inadvertently", and would then be asked his intentions about the stroke made.

 

He anchors his hand and forearm in his pre-shot, then divorces his hand before the stroke. What happens if 1/4 of his forearm is still in contact with his chest? By the rules, he is expressly in violation by creating a pivot point to his body. However, GC and everyone else is being told that it must be intentional, and that if Langer says, "I did not mean to do it...was not intentional" he would be off the hook.

 

That's some weak rulemaking/enforcement there.