Bernhard Langer's new putting stroke (Merged)

[SHIVAN]

Watch the videos, it is evident. His left arm moves with his body. Why? Because it's attached to his chest.

 

I don't need anyone's confirmation to see it.

 

 

You can see after the putt is well on it's way, he relaxes the contact with his chest.

 

I couldn't care any less if they don't ding him for it, or do. Just stating an obvious fact from 4k HD video I can watch on a 70" screen in my house.

[Vindog]

In Langer's stroke, his forearm is in contact with his body.

So I guess that the 20 or so Rules Officials that are working the tournament all missed this. Shame on them since you can clearly see it from your armchair.

 

For the better part of 2 years many have said it's not banning the long putter, you can just use it without anchoring. It is crazy hard to do that btw. So Langer is using it without anchoring and now many are getting their Jockey's in a bunch. Life sucks when you get your way and you still aren't happy.

 

I posed a question, maybe in the other thread, about whether his fellow competitors would be watching closely, or if maybe he has conversations with them pre round to clear the air, or pointing out things to look for. In lots of those clips, his FC is pretty close. I would wager that they are looking, if they care.

[Vindog]

I can move my arm with my body without it being anchored to my chest, just standing here in my living room, without the benefit of practice time.

[Vindog]

2:16 elbow and forearm clearly separated from this body

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLnLFIJUZE4

[SHIVAN]

2:16 elbow and forearm clearly separated from this body

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLnLFIJUZE4

 

Agree on that one. In the one I posted, it's clearly attached on the long putt, then detached on the brush in. As I said, I couldn't possibly care less if they ding him, or not. It was a stupid rule change.

[flog2]

Watch the videos, it is evident. His left arm moves with his body. Why? Because it's attached to his chest.

 

I don't need anyone's confirmation to see it.

 

 

You can see after the putt is well on it's way, he relaxes the contact with his chest.

 

I couldn't care any less if they don't ding him for it, or do. Just stating an obvious fact from 4k HD video I can watch on a 70" screen in my house.

that video clearly shows he is NOT anchoring his forearm against his chest or any part of his torso.

 

as an aside, did I read somewhere once that Langer is allergic to grass? or is that in a land far far away

[Socrates]

Watch the videos, it is evident. His left arm moves with his body. Why? Because it's attached to his chest.

 

I don't need anyone's confirmation to see it.

 

 

You can see after the putt is well on it's way, he relaxes the contact with his chest.

 

I couldn't care any less if they don't ding him for it, or do. Just stating an obvious fact from 4k HD video I can watch on a 70" screen in my house.

Was that a passive brag?

 

I don't think that was conclusive. It wasn't like they were zoomed in on it. In most of the putts that I saw, he was wobbly and that shows me he is disconnected. But that was just with my passé 52" Plasma and cable HD. I'll still side with those that are there and they are not concerned. I'd bet he took the head RO aside and asked him about what he was doing before using it and got the okay.

[SHIVAN]

Was that a passive brag?

 

Evidence of not all armchair reviews being equal. Since that's what you were on about....

[golf9596]

This rule is cut and dry. Don't anchor the club to the body. I felt this would be an issue for me in the few tournaments I play in, so I started to not anchor last year. To avoid any issues I just shorten my putter 2 inches which allows me to still address the putter with the same eye line and yet is away from my chest. I thought this was a simple fix and allowed me to still use the putter with similar results. The only issue is th "PC" police who think they know the rules. I'm tired of having to defend my position. Right is Right.

[Vindog]

This rule is cut and dry. Don't anchor the club to the body. I felt this would be an issue for me in the few tourMents I play in so I started to not anchor last year. To avoid any issues I just shorten my putter 2 inches which allows me to still address the putter with the same eye line and yet is away from my chest. I thought this was a simple fix and allowed me to still use the putter with similar results. The only issue is th "PC" police who think they know the rules. I'm tired of having to defend my position. Right is Right.

 

"You know that putter is illegal now, right?"

[rangersgoalie]

This rule is cut and dry. Don't anchor the club to the body. I felt this would be an issue for me in the few tourMents I play in so I started to not anchor last year. To avoid any issues I just shorten my putter 2 inches which allows me to still address the putter with the same eye line and yet is away from my chest. I thought this was a simple fix and allowed me to still use the putter with similar results. The only issue is th "PC" police who think they know the rules. I'm tired of having to defend my position. Right is Right.

 

"You know that putter is illegal now, right?"

 

Anchoring is illegal. The putter is not. There is a poster the USGA has on their website that shows the long putter can be legally used.

[Chief Illiniwek]

Not everyone who was opposed to anchoring is complaining about Langer's new method. I'm fine with what he's doing. Perfectly legal.

 

It is my opinion, though, that the powers that be are using the anchor ban as a means to an end and we'll see a rule limiting putter length at some point in the future.

[Holy Moses]

It's about intent. Langer could accidentally anchor once as he moves the putter, but would not be penalized. Yet if you accidentally move the ball in the rough while grounding your club that's a penalty.

[youraway2]

2:16 elbow and forearm clearly separated from this body

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLnLFIJUZE4

 

Agree on that one. In the one I posted, it's clearly attached on the long putt, then detached on the brush in. As I said, I couldn't possibly care less if they ding him, or not. It was a stupid rule change.

 

Your opinion, mine is it was a great rule change and long overdue. Sorry but must disagree.

[BenSnead]

Watch the videos, it is evident. His left arm moves with his body. Why? Because it's attached to his chest.

 

I don't need anyone's confirmation to see it.

 

You can see after the putt is well on it's way, he relaxes the contact with his chest.

 

I couldn't care any less if they don't ding him for it, or do. Just stating an obvious fact from 4k HD video I can watch on a 70" screen in my house.

 

This would make the stroke legal in itself even if you were right.

Note 2 of the rule says that a forearm touching is is only illegal if it creates a stable pivot point for the right HAND to swing the club around.

iow, if he's using primarily his body he CAN'T be illegally anchoring with the forearm.

[BenSnead]

Doesn't the rule basically say the butt end of the club, whether it is a putter or a driver, must be displaced as it moves through the hitting zone of the ball? It cannot pivot at a player created pivot point.

 

No.

 

Pivot point is perfectly legal as long as it isn't supported by anchoring the club, hand or forearm.

[rybo]

Had a go on the practice green and must say very surprised at how easy it was to use an non-anchored long putter. Took about 15 minutes of quick trial and error to figure out how and where to grip the lower hand, kept hitting the ground at first, but after that it was every bit the same as being anchored. I believe the trick is shortening the club sufficiently enough so your high arm can hold the club at some constant angle in relation to the ground. Also there is an instinct is to bend too much in an attempt to mimic the anchor point. 5 minutes and was over it.

 

I won't be giving up the short putter for it, however if the need ever came up it's quite the viable option.

[Kenny Lee Puckett]

I don't really care, but from a simple common sense perspective, If they were going to do this at all they should have limited putter length for pros to waist height and been done with it.

MG76.......Judge Smails, is that you?

 

"soooo, how do you measure your putter against other golfers? " ....... "by height."

[chigolfer1]

So in other words, you think he is doing what's shown in middle right as illegal, correct?

 

 

His forearm is anchored to his body, but not the butt. From the USGA/R&A handouts, and the stuff they showed on TGC, his new stroke is one of the "legal ones". Oddly still anchored, just not the butt end.

 

"Understanding Rule 14-1b: Permitted Strokes

PERMITTED: With this long putter, the player is not anchoring because neither the club, the hands nor the forearms are intentionally held in contact with the body."

 

The shows a clear gap in the forearm and body.

 

 

In Langer's stroke, his forearm is in contact with his body.

[MadGolfer76]

I don't really care, but from a simple common sense perspective, If they were going to do this at all they should have limited putter length for pros to waist height and been done with it.

MG76.......Judge Smails, is that you?

 

 

 

"soooo, how do you measure your putter against other golfers? " ....... "by height."

 

I said "waist" for a reason...and it wasn't height.

[Kenny Lee Puckett]

I don't really care, but from a simple common sense perspective, If they were going to do this at all they should have limited putter length for pros to waist height and been done with it.

MG76.......Judge Smails, is that you?

 

 

 

"soooo, how do you measure your putter against other golfers? " ....... "by height."

 

I said "waist" for a reason...and it wasn't height.

lol, sorry MG76. I guess my attempt at the joke escaped you. because if we are different heights, so are our waists from the floor, and therefore the possible max length of our putter.

[Chief Illiniwek]

I don't really care, but from a simple common sense perspective, If they were going to do this at all they should have limited putter length for pros to waist height and been done with it.

MG76.......Judge Smails, is that you?

 

 

 

"soooo, how do you measure your putter against other golfers? " ....... "by height."

 

I said "waist" for a reason...and it wasn't height.

lol, sorry MG76. I guess my attempt at the joke escaped you. because if we are different heights, so are our waists from the floor, and therefore the length of our putters.

 

 

[SHIVAN]

Not on every putt, as clearly evidenced by the differing of two videos in this thread alone. Some of the putts I saw him strike this weekend at the Chubb Classic seemed very close to that middle picture on the right. Forearm locked in to his chest.

 

In the vid I posted, you can see him kind of "release" as the ball is already rolling. It looks like he was in contact on that one.

 

As GC said tonight, "He's an honest guy, so he's probably not actually touching - but it looks REALLY close to being a violation."

 

 

So in other words, you think he is doing what's shown in middle right as illegal, correct?

 

 

His forearm is anchored to his body, but not the butt. From the USGA/R&A handouts, and the stuff they showed on TGC, his new stroke is one of the "legal ones". Oddly still anchored, just not the butt end.

 

"Understanding Rule 14-1b: Permitted Strokes

PERMITTED: With this long putter, the player is not anchoring because neither the club, the hands nor the forearms are intentionally held in contact with the body."

 

The shows a clear gap in the forearm and body.

 

 

In Langer's stroke, his forearm is in contact with his body.

[Kenny Lee Puckett]

"hey, my friend Al and I here both want to get fit for waist high putters."

 

[ashortgame]

2:16 elbow and forearm clearly separated from this body

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLnLFIJUZE4

Thanks for posting this Vindog. I will stand corrected from what I said in the other threads on this. In the other video it looked like he was bracing his left arm, but this video clearly shows he is not. In addition to 2:16 there is a good view of it at 1:40.

I stand corrected. Thanks again for the video.

[boots1302]

I have no issue with this style of stroke being allowed I just am curious as to how the USGA is enforcing this. He could easily be following the no anchor rule on some holes and slip up by anchoring on others. Is there someone on each and every putt that ensures he is not anchored? Just ban putters beyond a certain length, say 40", then this won't be an issue at all and people who prefer arm lock can still arm lock.

[Hawkeye77]

I have no issue with this style of stroke being allowed I just am curious as to how the USGA is enforcing this. He could easily be following the no anchor rule on some holes and slip up by anchoring on others. Is there someone on each and every putt that ensures he is not anchored? Just ban putters beyond a certain length, say 40", then this won't be an issue at all and people who prefer arm lock can still arm lock.

 

No more than someone checks each player's ball on every shot to make sure it's theirs and legal. The USGA wouldn't be running around enforcing it anyway, but rules officials on Tour aren't going to shadow Bernhard just to make sure he isn't violating a rule.

[SurfDuffer]

So in other words, you think he is doing what's shown in middle right as illegal, correct?

 

 

His forearm is anchored to his body, but not the butt. From the USGA/R&A handouts, and the stuff they showed on TGC, his new stroke is one of the "legal ones". Oddly still anchored, just not the butt end.

 

"Understanding Rule 14-1b: Permitted Strokes

PERMITTED: With this long putter, the player is not anchoring because neither the club, the hands nor the forearms are intentionally held in contact with the body."

 

The shows a clear gap in the forearm and body.

 

 

In Langer's stroke, his forearm is in contact with his body.

 

Yes. Anchor point created by locking forearm.

[SheriffBooth]

Doesn't the rule basically say the butt end of the club, whether it is a putter or a driver, must be displaced as it moves through the hitting zone of the ball? It cannot pivot at a player created pivot point.

 

No. You just can't anchor the club, your gripping hand, or your forearm to your body. That's it. There is nothing about the butt end of the club in the rule.

[MelloYello]

I'll say this again, beating a bunch of washed up has-beens and never-weres doesn't count for much. So long as this is a Senior Tour issue nobody will care.

 

What do I think? I think it's something which should outlawed in regular men's events. No anchoring, no long putters, etc. As a senior tour issue, I say let them do whatever makes their play more watchable. Let them all carry niblicks as a 15th club to avoid the yips for all I care.

 

The real question is whether some who can putt would ever seek anything but a traditional means and to date the answer is a clear no. To me, that makes the Langers and Scotts of the world mere footnotes.

 

Langer is getting to be the Tiger Woods of the Senior Tour and still no one cares about him...to me, there's justice in that, lol.