Bernhard Langer's new putting stroke (Merged)

[iBanesto]

http://media.gettyim...ure-id506171522

 

Langer changed his grip and putter last week.

[ashortgame]

I was watching him in the Chubb Classic and Ive got to say I was shocked. it looked to me like he was still anchoring.The camera's zoomed in on his left hand and at set-up he was definitely anchoring. Just before his started his stroke he moved his left hand forward just a touch (maybe 1/2"-3/4") and then started his stroke. OK you could see him move the putter away from his chest, but his left hand is still in contact with his shirt.

So the question is was it just touching his shirt or did it come even slightly back towards his body. One thing for sure is that when your using that stroke the left hand is never going to move further away from his chest. If anything its going to move closer.

In any event its certainly not like the illustration put out by the USGA where it shows a clear space between the putter and the body.

It really pushes the boundaries, and certainly is not in the spirit of the game.

Its not my call there are plenty of officials there. But..... I wouldn't sign his card.

[NotZoro]

I have just spent the last hour or so watching the senior tour Ace Group Classic, & multiple putts by Langer, & even Lanny Wadkins kept mentioning just how close his hand is to his chest and it being about as close to being illegal as he had seen. Lanny, never said Langer was violating the rule, but the fact that they kept reiterating it is noteworthy. Thing is, if you look closely & watch the stroke and how he makes it...the tip of the grip & his left hand may indeed not be touching his chest. But if you read the diagram posted by kevcarter in this post, Langer does seem to be in violation...not because it's touching his chest...that continues to be contested and not really something you can prove with a lose shirt..but rather because he appears to be anchoring his forearm against his chest/body. The 2nd Note at the top of of the diagram goes into detail about this specifically (and expanded upon in the middle-right picture of the prohibited section titled "anchor point created by forearm"). I kept pausing, rewinding & then replaying those close ups & time & time again, it just looks like his forearm is anchored in a prohibited way (according to the diagram's description) even though his left hand and grip tip might be slightly off & not touching his chest. Just an observation on Langer's stroke in relation to the rule as described, and if my interpretation of what I'm witnessing is off, I can accept that, especially considering the PGA officials & his fellow competitors aren't calling foul.

[NotZoro]

damn it...right when I hit post, I'm proven wrong....Langer just putted once more, and they showed a close up once again...& this time, neither his hand, grip, nor forearm was anchored at all to his chest or body.....I am shut up. ;-)

[BIG STU]

Yep I saw the same telecast too. Lanny was constantly flapping his jaws about it and having the camera guys zooming in trying to catch him. Of course the GC/NBC thinks they dictate policy anyhow.This whole anchored thing got started back when Nobilo and Chamblee started flapping their yaps about Adam Scott when he won using the anchored stroke. Besides I will let Lanny play Langer any day for any amount with Langer using a conventional putter. Yep if Lanny is so darn good why is he up in the booth instead of down there competiting?

[Vindog]

I was watching him in the Chubb Classic and Ive got to say I was shocked. it looked to me like he was still anchoring.The camera's zoomed in on his left hand and at set-up he was definitely anchoring. Just before his started his stroke he moved his left hand forward just a touch (maybe 1/2"-3/4") and then started his stroke. OK you could see him move the putter away from his chest, but his left hand is still in contact with his shirt.

So the question is was it just touching his shirt or did it come even slightly back towards his body. One thing for sure is that when your using that stroke the left hand is never going to move further away from his chest. If anything its going to move closer.

In any event its certainly not like the illustration put out by the USGA where it shows a clear space between the putter and the body.

It really pushes the boundaries, and certainly is not in the spirit of the game.

Its not my call there are plenty of officials there. But..... I wouldn't sign his card.

 

Well then there you go. Case closed.

[Ballhound]

I agree that it's not in the spirit of the game. Modified anchoring is what it looks like. Rules committee should have just set a maximum putter length to eliminate the controversy.

[iBanesto]

http://youtu.be/1fqeqd-wBEg

 

2 min 26 sec mark.

 

Looks fine to me.

[jpt1101]

He's not anchoring. It's legal so I don't know why anyone would have an issue with this. This is a professional sport so I don't think spirit of the game is really a concern of Langer's. When Aaron Rodgers tries to quick snap when an opponent is running off the field to catch the defense with too many men on the field is that within the spirit of the game? Is that how the rule was intended to be applied? No but it doesn't matter. That's the rule. Golf and football are games with rules which should apply consistently and which are not open to interpretation or moral judgement.

[Noke]

This is the USGA's "fault", and not Langer's.

 

Feel the Bern!

[Hawkeye77]

I was watching him in the Chubb Classic and Ive got to say I was shocked. it looked to me like he was still anchoring.The camera's zoomed in on his left hand and at set-up he was definitely anchoring. Just before his started his stroke he moved his left hand forward just a touch (maybe 1/2"-3/4") and then started his stroke. OK you could see him move the putter away from his chest, but his left hand is still in contact with his shirt.

So the question is was it just touching his shirt or did it come even slightly back towards his body. One thing for sure is that when your using that stroke the left hand is never going to move further away from his chest. If anything its going to move closer.

In any event its certainly not like the illustration put out by the USGA where it shows a clear space between the putter and the body.

It really pushes the boundaries, and certainly is not in the spirit of the game.

Its not my call there are plenty of officials there. But..... I wouldn't sign his card.

 

Then you would be a classless competitor.

 

He is legal and it doesn't push any boundary. Not anchored is not anchored.

[KevCarter]

...

Its not my call there are plenty of officials there. But..... I wouldn't sign his card.

 

Then you would be a classless competitor.

 

He is legal and it doesn't push any boundary. Not anchored is not anchored.

 

Very well said.

[ashortgame]

I was watching him in the Chubb Classic and Ive got to say I was shocked. it looked to me like he was still anchoring.The camera's zoomed in on his left hand and at set-up he was definitely anchoring. Just before his started his stroke he moved his left hand forward just a touch (maybe 1/2"-3/4") and then started his stroke. OK you could see him move the putter away from his chest, but his left hand is still in contact with his shirt.

So the question is was it just touching his shirt or did it come even slightly back towards his body. One thing for sure is that when your using that stroke the left hand is never going to move further away from his chest. If anything its going to move closer.

In any event its certainly not like the illustration put out by the USGA where it shows a clear space between the putter and the body.

It really pushes the boundaries, and certainly is not in the spirit of the game.

Its not my call there are plenty of officials there. But..... I wouldn't sign his card.

 

Then you would be a classless competitor.

 

He is legal and it doesn't push any boundary. Not anchored is not anchored.

 

Im guessing you dont play for a living Hawkeye.

As I said its not my call, there are officials out there, its their call, but I still wouldnt sign his card. Thats my opinion and Im staying with it from what I see. If you look at the video (thanks for posting by way), It seems to me he is anchoring with his left forearm.

Anchoring with your forearm is still anchoring.

[Hawkeye77]

I was watching him in the Chubb Classic and Ive got to say I was shocked. it looked to me like he was still anchoring.The camera's zoomed in on his left hand and at set-up he was definitely anchoring. Just before his started his stroke he moved his left hand forward just a touch (maybe 1/2"-3/4") and then started his stroke. OK you could see him move the putter away from his chest, but his left hand is still in contact with his shirt.

So the question is was it just touching his shirt or did it come even slightly back towards his body. One thing for sure is that when your using that stroke the left hand is never going to move further away from his chest. If anything its going to move closer.

In any event its certainly not like the illustration put out by the USGA where it shows a clear space between the putter and the body.

It really pushes the boundaries, and certainly is not in the spirit of the game.

Its not my call there are plenty of officials there. But..... I wouldn't sign his card.

 

Then you would be a classless competitor.

 

He is legal and it doesn't push any boundary. Not anchored is not anchored.

 

Im guessing you dont play for a living Hawkeye.

As I said its not my call, there are officials out there, its their call, but I still wouldnt sign his card. Thats my opinion and Im staying with it from what I see. If you look at the video (thanks for posting by way), It seems to me he is anchoring with his left forearm.

Anchoring with your forearm is still anchoring.

 

Not relevant whether I play for a living.

 

Your original post claims uncertainty about Langer, yet you know best (never having seen firsthand, while rules officials who have see no violation) and then categorically state you would not sign his card. That is irrational and unsportsmanlike. Then a video from which it cannot be concluded he is anchoring causes you from your armchair, again no firsthand observation, to affirm your position? You don't understand the rule and are seeing things that aren't there.

 

You actually play with him and actually see him anchor illegally (and fully understand what that is under the rules) then you get a ruling, you don't like the ruling, you decide where to go from there. But the statements you've made are not informed.

 

 

[TheGeekGolfer]

http://youtu.be/1fqeqd-wBEg

 

2 min 26 sec mark.

 

Looks fine to me.

2 min 37 sec mark, look again. His left forearm is anchored to his chest. I don't agree with the rule change, but he is certainly anchoring his left forearm as described in the not allowed section of the poster. He moves the top of the grip away from his chest, but his forearm is still touching and therefore anchored.

[Vindog]

I agree that it's not in the spirit of the game. Modified anchoring is what it looks like. Rules committee should have just set a maximum putter length to eliminate the controversy.

 

What, exactly would this have eliminated? You can still anchor the shortest club against your belly, and in the case of a shorter player, would create a disadvantageous situation.

 

Think about it. Setting length restrictions on putters does absolutely nothing to address the real issue, which is the anchoring. I say that the new verbiage lays out PRECISELY what they want to achieve.

[Vindog]

http://youtu.be/1fqeqd-wBEg

 

2 min 26 sec mark.

 

Looks fine to me.

2 min 37 sec mark, look again. His left forearm is anchored to his chest. I don't agree with the rule change, but he is certainly anchoring his left forearm as described in the not allowed section of the poster. He moves the top of the grip away from his chest, but his forearm is still touching and therefore anchored.

 

He's not even putting at 2:37. Am I missing something?

[Hawkeye77]

http://youtu.be/1fqeqd-wBEg

 

2 min 26 sec mark.

 

Looks fine to me.

2 min 37 sec mark, look again. His left forearm is anchored to his chest. I don't agree with the rule change, but he is certainly anchoring his left forearm as described in the not allowed section of the poster. He moves the top of the grip away from his chest, but his forearm is still touching and therefore anchored.

http://youtu.be/1fqeqd-wBEg

 

2 min 26 sec mark.

 

Looks fine to me.

2 min 37 sec mark, look again. His left forearm is anchored to his chest. I don't agree with the rule change, but he is certainly anchoring his left forearm as described in the not allowed section of the poster. He moves the top of the grip away from his chest, but his forearm is still touching and therefore anchored.

 

Nonsense. There is no way to conclude from that angle his left arm is anchored in a way deemed illegal.

 

You folks enjoy your living room pronouncements, but if you are declaring someone cheating from home you need a lot more evidence than that.

 

By all means, you call that in, though, because the people standing right next to him are all blind and have no idea what the rules are.

[SurfDuffer]

While he may technically not be breaking the rule, he's sure coming as close as possible. Some putts he may even be crossing the line. What he's doing should be banned too. He's got that left arm/hand as locked in as humanly possible.

[NYDave]

I agree, if he wants to continue to putt like that it needs to be clearly visible that he's not anchoring, not this 1/4 off the chest but still touching his shirt BS...

[MadGolfer76]

I don't really care, but from a simple common sense perspective, If they were going to do this at all they should have limited putter length for pros to waist height and been done with it.

[Hawkeye77]

Now, your grooves are right on or within .0000000001 of the rules, that's too borderline? No, it's 100% legal.

 

I get where you are coming from, but legal is legal. If he's not anchoring, I just don't get why all the concern, but I wasn't a big proponent of the ban, so I admit to not being too invested in all the arguments either way.

[Hawkeye77]

I don't really care, but from a simple common sense perspective, If they were going to do this at all they should have limited putter length for pros to waist height and been done with it.

 

This makes sense to me, still combined with no anchoring other clubs you might anchor for putting or chipping, like I sometimes roll a 3w like a putt off the green?

[MadGolfer76]

I don't really care, but from a simple common sense perspective, If they were going to do this at all they should have limited putter length for pros to waist height and been done with it.

 

This makes sense to me, still combined with no anchoring other clubs you might anchor for putting or chipping, like I sometimes roll a 3w like a putt off the green?

 

Just couple it with a no anchoring rule?

 

Again, I don't care. I would like to think my putting is good enough where someone else doesn't have an advantage over me regardless of what they do. But, the wishy-washy nature of the decision seems to suggest some faulty reasoning to me.

[Vindog]

If there were only another thread on the first page that discusses this, but I digress. Folks. Putter length won't do anything for the "gray area" as you can still belly up to a short club as well as coming very close to anchoring.

 

As I've said before, I feel as if the rule is worded exactly in the manner which addresses the issue at hand, and that is the anchoring of the putter. Whether the player in question has actually anchored is clearly up to the player, the FCs and the rules officials at hand, just like hazard violations, ball at rest moved or any other violation.

[Socrates]

Clearly not anchoring. I guess if the "purists" wanted to make sure, they could have him take his shirt off to putt. You can see it isn't anchored on any longish putt and it looks really awkward. On a windy day I can't see it working too well. You have to hand it to him at 58 he's still kicking butt.

[Vindog]

I am liking the fact that people are still outraged at this even though they got the rules changed like they wanted.

 

The Spirit Of The Game used to be that a club shouldn't be anchored. Now it's something different. Surprise surprise

[EKELLY]

Not worth all the hoopla. Crap rule, and he's inside the limits of legal.....Guy is still a machine.......

[Tmiller72]

He's not anchoring and is 100% within the rules!

[Scaldy]

I kind of hope that his example will be seen by all those player's with back issues. You can still use a long putter.