Bernhard Langer's new putting stroke (Merged)

[nbg352]

The rules expressly allow Langer's style of putting. The spirit of the game, as defined, remains intact and therefore is not open for a discussion of morals. If it is legal, it is within the spirit and therefore it is above reproach morally.

 

Not expressly. If you watch the video at the top of the page, and even listen to his description of his pre-shot, you will see that he could actually be in violation of the rule "inadvertently", and would then be asked his intentions about the stroke made.

 

He anchors his hand and forearm in his pre-shot, then divorces his hand before the stroke. What happens if 1/4 of his forearm is still in contact with his chest? By the rules, he is expressly in violation by creating a pivot point to his body. However, GC and everyone else is being told that it must be intentional, and that if Langer says, "I did not mean to do it...was not intentional" he would be off the hook.

 

That's some weak rulemaking/enforcement there.

Deliberately anchoring is illegal. Inadvertent is questionable, certainly....the first time or two that is done. After that? Well then inadvertently shouldn't even enter into it, because it is probably deliberate.

But, that the USGA knowingly left this door open, Langer's stroke is legal up to and including brushing his shirt deliberately. As long as no actual conscious anchoring occurs, the USGA deems what he does as legal, which is therefore within the spirit, is morally correct and cannot be thought of as cheating.

I have long said that this decision by the USGA would come back to haunt it.

[SHIVAN]

We are in agreement. Definitely.

[Holy Moses]

Inadvertant anchoring that becomes a pattern will be penalized according to the USGA

[TheGeekGolfer]

The rules expressly allow Langer's style of putting. The spirit of the game, as defined, remains intact and therefore is not open for a discussion of morals. If it is legal, it is within the spirit and therefore it is above reproach morally.

 

Not expressly. If you watch the video at the top of the page, and even listen to his description of his pre-shot, you will see that he could actually be in violation of the rule "inadvertently", and would then be asked his intentions about the stroke made.

 

He anchors his hand and forearm in his pre-shot, then divorces his hand before the stroke. What happens if 1/4 of his forearm is still in contact with his chest? By the rules, he is expressly in violation by creating a pivot point to his body. However, GC and everyone else is being told that it must be intentional, and that if Langer says, "I did not mean to do it...was not intentional" he would be off the hook.

 

That's some weak rulemaking/enforcement there.

The rules expressly allow Langer's style of putting. The spirit of the game, as defined, remains intact and therefore is not open for a discussion of morals. If it is legal, it is within the spirit and therefore it is above reproach morally.

 

Not expressly. If you watch the video at the top of the page, and even listen to his description of his pre-shot, you will see that he could actually be in violation of the rule "inadvertently", and would then be asked his intentions about the stroke made.

 

He anchors his hand and forearm in his pre-shot, then divorces his hand before the stroke. What happens if 1/4 of his forearm is still in contact with his chest? By the rules, he is expressly in violation by creating a pivot point to his body. However, GC and everyone else is being told that it must be intentional, and that if Langer says, "I did not mean to do it...was not intentional" he would be off the hook.

 

That's some weak rulemaking/enforcement there.

Deliberately anchoring is illegal. Inadvertent is questionable, certainly....the first time or two that is done. After that? Well then inadvertently shouldn't even enter into it, because it is probably deliberate.

But, that the USGA knowingly left this door open, Langer's stroke is legal up to and including brushing his shirt deliberately. As long as no actual conscious anchoring occurs, the USGA deems what he does as legal, which is therefore within the spirit, is morally correct and cannot be thought of as cheating.

I have long said that this decision by the USGA would come back to haunt it.

This is the main point I have with the rule change, I don't think their should be any intent or gray area language. If you anchored, penalty.

[Vindog]

Now there is a 404 error on the TGC link. Someone got racial / xenophobic I think.

[nbg352]

 

This is the main point I have with the rule change, I don't think their should be any intent or gray area language. If you anchored, penalty.

The problem, as the USGA sees it is the myriad of call ins that would have to be investigated. And, because there is such a fine line between what is seen as anchoring and what could well be simply touching the shirt? Holy sh*t storm......

But, as in all things in the game, the onus is on the player. Only he knows what touched the shirt, what inadvertently touched his chest and what was deliberate. We can only hope that he is honest.

[Holy Moses]

 

This is the main point I have with the rule change, I don't think their should be any intent or gray area language. If you anchored, penalty.

The problem, as the USGA sees it is the myriad of call ins that would have to be investigated. And, because there is such a fine line between what is seen as anchoring and what could well be simply touching the shirt? Holy sh*t storm......

But, as in all things in the game, the onus is on the player. Only he knows what touched the shirt, what inadvertently touched his chest and what was deliberate. We can only hope that he is honest.

 

Yes but once a player draws enough smoke, the Tour will watch him or her closely and someone won't be able to accidentally anchor for long

[nbg352]

This is the main point I have with the rule change, I don't think their should be any intent or gray area language. If you anchored, penalty.

The problem, as the USGA sees it is the myriad of call ins that would have to be investigated. And, because there is such a fine line between what is seen as anchoring and what could well be simply touching the shirt? Holy sh*t storm......

But, as in all things in the game, the onus is on the player. Only he knows what touched the shirt, what inadvertently touched his chest and what was deliberate. We can only hope that he is honest.

 

Yes but once a player draws enough smoke, the Tour will watch him or her closely and someone won't be able to accidentally anchor for long

It's very hard to know if a player is actually anchoring. A slo mo of Langer's stroke suggested that the butt was freely moving with the head. If so, it was miniscule. I could not say either way if he was anchoring or not. I'm certain he was at least brushing his shirt, but it might have been the breeze. He also initially sets up with his top hand against his chest and then moves it off approximately 1/4 inch before he begins the stroke. Again, I really couldn't tell one way or the other. Only Langer knows for sure

[SurfDuffer]

I see anchoring. As pictured a few pages back in the USGA image on the center right.

[Vindog]

I see anchoring. As pictured a few pages back in the USGA image on the center right.

 

Oh surfstuffer. You're such a card!

[trapsmv15]

I kind of hope that his example will be seen by all those player's with back issues. You can still use a long putter.

Since talk of a ban first took place way back when, I switched to un-anchoring when using a long putter. I'm more of a 'right hand roller' than a 'shoulder rocker' and it works fine for me. It saves me from so much extra back pain.

[bigeasy]

Ernie Els said many years ago, the long putter was cheating and as long as they allow it, he would continue using it. USGA will ban the long putter to enforce no anchoring rule. Looks like they messed up again.

Ll

[TheGeekGolfer]

This is an honest question, not intending to troll.

 

In a recent Golf Digest article, Langer is quoted as saying, “I am aware of my left arm and hand, and my hand is definitely not touching my body. I anchor when I address and then move my hand away from the chest, till it is not touching anymore.”

 

Perhaps he just doesn't know that his forearm also has to be moved off his chest?

[wobgon]

Ernie Els said many years ago, the long putter was cheating and as long as they allow it, he would continue using it. USGA will ban the long putter to enforce no anchoring rule. Looks like they messed up again.

Ll

So Ernie lied......No big deal......Happens all the time

[Bsgolf53]

Questionable...

[avrag]

Maybe it is a stunt to show how unenforceable the rule is. He wants to go out today and win and then declare "I anchored on this putt and this putt and this putt and this one... But not on this one and this one and this one and this one. Could anybody tell the difference?"

But then again, Langer is not Phil Mickelson, who would probably do something like this if he wanted to prove his point.

That being said, I certainly think that his entire left forearm is pressed against his body, even if the hand is not, so this would be breach, would it not?

Disclaimer: I did not think that changing the rule was necessary.

[losefreeze33]

His hand is still touching his body/sweater in many strokes so impossible to tell if it isn't anchored. If you ain't cheating you ain't trying

[Socrates]

He's a man of impeccable integrity. If he felt he was anchoring he wouldn't do it. Before he went back to the long putter he consulted with Rules Officials and they had no problem.

 

That's good enough for me. If it's not good enough for anyone else, tough sh*t, I guess.

[Mr. Grumpy]

He should play shirtless, problem solved for you hawkeyes...

[SurfDuffer]

If he's not in violation he's as damned close to it as you can get.

[golfandfishing]

If he's not in violation he's as damned close to it as you can get.

 

So if someone tees it up exactly 2 clubs behind the tee marker that is also almost cheating?

[sdbisson91]

I've always disliked the long putters and I thought that even before they banned it, anchoring the putter was cheating. It's so hard to tell if his left hand isn't actually touching his chest, but I think you can't deny that his left arm is touching his body.

 

My question is, why even bother risking it? It's so in the grey area that I can't imagine it is worth the potential repercussions to continue to toe the line so closely. I hope he gets tagged with a penalty today, and not because I don't want to see a legend of the game do well, but because I think he is cheating even if he isn't doing it intentionally. I realize a lot of people won't agree with me and some will vehemently disagree, but so be it.

[resnor]

Why continue to use the long putter the way he is if he's not anchoring? Watching him putt, it looks anchored to me.

[drbonesvt]

One of the live from the masters commentators said "players or the champions tour " are questioning his stroke, what's the basis For that, has that tour been monitoring his putting technique

 

IMOP it sure looks anchored to me , but he'll it must be within the rules right?

[Vindog]

One of the live from the masters commentators said "players or the champions tour " are questioning his stroke, what's the basis For that, has that tour been monitoring his putting technique

 

IMOP it sure looks anchored to me , but he'll it must be within the rules right?

 

IIRC when he brought it back out during that Champions event, he went to the ROs and told them exactly what he was going to do, and they knew exactly what to look for and nobody said anything all the way through his win there. So I feel like it must be legit. And what Socrates said. I don't see him as someone to knowingly break that plane.

 

Also, everyone here should know by now how far we can take the Live@ commentators.

[bscinstnct]

You cant fool the Augusta golf gods ; )

[rangersgoalie]

I've always disliked the long putters and I thought that even before they banned it, anchoring the putter was cheating. It's so hard to tell if his left hand isn't actually touching his chest, but I think you can't deny that his left arm is touching his body.

 

My question is, why even bother risking it? It's so in the grey area that I can't imagine it is worth the potential repercussions to continue to toe the line so closely. I hope he gets tagged with a penalty today, and not because I don't want to see a legend of the game do well, but because I think he is cheating even if he isn't doing it intentionally. I realize a lot of people won't agree with me and some will vehemently disagree, but so be it.

 

Not to be a jack, but how can playing within the rules be considered cheating? I know im being a pain, but it bugs me, in this game to call someone a cheater, if the are not breaking a rule

[carn9698]

Top hand is too close for comfort to the chest. As a rules official it would stress me trying to look if he touches his chest sometimes or not.

[Punchdraw]

The butt of the putter might not be anchored but they were showing close-ups during his warm-up today and his wrist definitely is touching his chest... You could tell the one commentator was asking faldo how it wasn't anchoring and faldo said something to the affect of, he only warms up like that but not when he's actually out in the course. Too bad he did putt the same way on the course too.

[SurfDuffer]

The rule needs to be fixed. They got it wrong. They worded it poorly leaving it open so that a guy like this can simply move the fulcrum off of his chest 1/4" and get away with it. He's still using a locked arm to create an anchor point and a pendulum motion that should not be allowed. The rule should be revised.