Why there can't be a Tiger now

[playa]

Daly was a freak and about 20 years ahead of his time, but Tiger was averaging about 8-9 yards more off the tee than Davis Love III...one of the longest hitters in modern golf. The average guy on Tour was a lot shorter than DL3, so in general Tiger had a massive advantage over the field. Difference between Woods and Daly was mental strength and course management. JD never embarrassed Augusta National the way Woods did in 1997.

Funny you mention Daly never embarrassing Augusta, I don't remember ever seeing him on a leaderboard at the Masters and can't clearly recall seeing him even playing a shot there.

[Shilgy]

This past Championship is a perfect example. You've got Jason Day who I think we can all agree has all world talent. Not really any weakness in his game and a great putter.

 

He ranks 184th in driving accuracy. That's pretty weak.

 

Kind of fits the mold of Tiger and Jack, maybe even more shots in his bag than Jack had.

 

I don't agree. Day will never have even half the career either Jack or Tiger had. Tiger and Jack dominated in their era. Day isn't dominating even during his hot streak.

Day is 40th strokes gained off the tee. So not terrible. Depends on your misses meaning accuracy can be misleading.

 

But 184th in accuracy is VERY weak. My point is that he does have a weakness. There is nothing misleading about being 184th.

IMO there is something misleading about it. It certainly sounds weak but...he misses about two more fairways a round than #23 in the rankings. Three per round less than #1. Day is 40th in strokes gained off the tee and #1 accuracy guy is 129th.

[Marco]

[Undershooter30]

This past Championship is a perfect example. You've got Jason Day who I think we can all agree has all world talent. Not really any weakness in his game and a great putter.

 

He ranks 184th in driving accuracy. That's pretty weak.

 

Kind of fits the mold of Tiger and Jack, maybe even more shots in his bag than Jack had.

 

I don't agree. Day will never have even half the career either Jack or Tiger had. Tiger and Jack dominated in their era. Day isn't dominating even during his hot streak.

Day is 40th strokes gained off the tee. So not terrible. Depends on your misses meaning accuracy can be misleading.

 

But 184th in accuracy is VERY weak. My point is that he does have a weakness. There is nothing misleading about being 184th.

Accuracy means very little unless it's a US Open or your tee shots are going out of bounds. Strokes gained is a much better measure of how well He is doing off the tee. Unless you want to manipulate stats. Fyi I shot 67 the other day and only hit 5 fairways. I must be terrible off the tee haha

[Dave230]

Phil is 46 (with arthritis) and still a force on tour. How is this possible if the competition is so much better now than in Tigers era?

 

Great players are great players regardless of age, if Mickelson is shooting 63s in majors and has a 69 scoring average then of course he's going to contend in any era.

[jslane57]

There can't be another TW now because Nike is quitting the club/ball/bag industry. Or is it the other way around?

[Roadking2003]

Accuracy means very little unless it's a US Open or your tee shots are going out of bounds. Strokes gained is a much better measure of how well He is doing off the tee. Unless you want to manipulate stats. Fyi I shot 67 the other day and only hit 5 fairways. I must be terrible off the tee haha

 

I never said it was important. The post I was responding to said Day had no weaknesses. But he does. Driving accuracy is a very weak part of Day's game.

 

Tiger and Phil also had that same weakness and they did pretty good.

[Undershooter30]

Accuracy means very little unless it's a US Open or your tee shots are going out of bounds. Strokes gained is a much better measure of how well He is doing off the tee. Unless you want to manipulate stats. Fyi I shot 67 the other day and only hit 5 fairways. I must be terrible off the tee haha

 

I never said it was important. The post I was responding to said Day had no weaknesses. But he does. Driving accuracy is a very weak part of Day's game.

 

Tiger and Phil also had that same weakness and they did pretty good.

I don't really consider it a weakness if it has very little affect on his game or ability to score. I guess we just see that differently.

[BillMurrayGolfing]

Tiger's club swirl tho...makes Jordan's putter swirl looking like a junior high kid and Keegan Bradley's swirl looking like, well, a retard

[bscinstnct]

Tiger's club swirl tho...makes Jordan's putter swirl looking like a junior high kid and Keegan Bradley's swirl looking like, well, a retard

 

[Roadking2003]

I did a twirl like that 40 years ago....just didn't win as many majors as Tiger.

[justwellsy]

Tiger benefited from absolutely weakest fields in decades. He would crash hard these days and it's no surprise he's basically retired for all intents and purposes.

 

FFS, it's only been two and a half years since a past-his-prime Tiger dominated the tour. In 2013, he won five times, including Bay Hill, the Players, and two WGC's. He was also the scoring leader, the money leader, the POTY, and he regained the #1 ranking for over a year. All while fighting a balky back that kept him from practicing as much as he would have liked.

 

Do you really think the fields have gotten twice as tough in two and a half years?

 

1. It's funny how soon people forget! People are going to continue to hate Tiger in the same way that people hate LeBron James. It's fun to talk about hypothetical situations, but I think most of us know that Tiger would still be almost or just as dominant these days if he were younger and still in his prime.

 

2. It seems people have already forgotten that Jordan Spieth was only a few strokes away from winning 5 majors in a row. 0, 0, 1, 3, 3... 7 total strokes were between him and winning those 5 straight (of course assuming he'd win in a playoff). Imagine how differently we'd be looking at him if that had happened??!!! It seems he has regressed a bit, but is still very good and still has 2 wins this year.

 

3. Vijay Singh.... if Tiger Woods never existed, we'd probably be talking about Vijay in the GOAT conversation. He was #1 ranked in the world WHILE playing in the same era as Tiger. He would have won more majors, had more wins overall, and likely been viewed as a Tiger-like figure. It didn't help that he didn't seem to be a very likable guy, but that was a bit unfair by the viewing public.

 

4. Mental Tenacity.... think of how many great hall of famers there are in each sport. Now think of how many of those dominated the game with their mind like Tiger did... not very many. As far as Tiger was concerned, he could hit any shot at any moment and most of the time he pulled it off. He had no fear of hitting a bad shot because he knew he could recover. I think players today worry too much about avoiding trouble rather than striking while the iron is hot (until they are forced to, obviously). When Tiger had the lead, you had to come take it from him and he knew you didn't have the mental makeup to do it. He was the best mindfu**er of all time!

 

5. There will be another Tiger Woods... but probably not anytime soon. Again, this goes back to the Vijay argument. Sometimes there are multiple players in a single generation that could be in the GOAT conversation, but they ended up overshadowing each other. That could be going on right now and you could argue the overall fields are stronger (I think they are), but you still have to take into account the lack of dominance by any 1 player or even 2. You have to look beyond the majors and see that no one wins more than 2 or 3 times in a single year anymore (or it's very rare). From 1999 to 2003, Tiger won 32 Tournaments. Then from 2006 to 2008, he won 21 more. How many of these guys playing now will ever win 21 tournaments TOTAL in their 20+ year careers?

 

142 straight cuts made.... 24 wins before the age of 25....won 28 out of his first 100 tournaments played...66 consecutive rounds at par or better (worldwide)...successfully defended a championship 24 times....from 1998 to 2008, he missed the cut only 3 times (not counting WDs)

 

I know I am bias and will be perceived that way, but the numbers speak for themselves. 66 straight rounds at par or better has nothing to do with his conpetition

[Roadking2003]

1. It's funny how soon people forget! People are going to continue to hate Tiger in the same way that people hate LeBron James.

 

Is that different from the way people hate Sam Snead or Jack Nicklaus? Just curious.

[chippa13]

The reason that there won't be another Tiger is because of how Tiger changed the game. Today's players are much more focused on fitness and the like and have taken distance to entirely new levels. When he was on top there was talk about "Tiger-proofing" courses. Now, today's top bombers are regularly putting drives out there well past what Tiger could do on his best day.

[Shilgy]

The reason that there won't be another Tiger is because of how Tiger changed the game. Today's players are much more focused on fitness and the like and have taken distance to entirely new levels. When he was on top there was talk about "Tiger-proofing" courses. Now, today's top bombers are regularly putting drives out there well past what Tiger could do on his best day.

Tiger never was the longest on tour by average, maybe one year. Tiger proofing was just the phrase the media used to describe the lengthing of courses. He just had the whole package. Look at the average scores on tour when Tiger was at his peak. They were the same as today's tour except, make that EXCEPT Tiger who separated himself from the pack. So yes, there can be another Tiger just like Tiger was another Jack.

[Golfnutgalen]

I think Tiger averaged 323 at Augusta in 1997 which, correct me if I'm wrong, has never been equaled. Daly was about 300 that year. Tiger himself claimed that he dialed his swing back immensely after that although it sure looked like he swung for the fences from time to time. That I believe is why they coined the term "Tiger-Proofing".

 

About Day, he reminds me so much of Tiger and seems to drive the ball every bit as wildly from time to time. Day is 175th in proximity to the edge of the fairway when he misses (Furyk is 2nd) and 182nd in proximity when he hits the fairway (Scott is first!). Both of those sound awful, but Dustin is actually worse (179th and 200th). Strokes gained off the tee seems flawed to me and doesn't adequately punish crooked driving.

 

Just for comparison the earliest year for those new stats is 2008 and the earliest Tiger year was 2009. Here are his numbers:

 

135th in proximity to the edge of the fairway when he misses

13th in proximity when he hits the fairway

 

or 2012 his best driving year under Foley:

 

147th in proximity to the edge of the fairway when he misses

93rd in proximity when he hits the fairway

[jslane57]

The end of Nike golf hard goods shows that maybe there never was a Tiger. Tiger effect that is. There was (and is) a golfer named Tiger Woods, who transcended the sport of golf and forever will be legend. This golfer put fear into others like no one ever will or can and is arguably the very best to have lived. The world swooned, courses were made, clubs were built, growth was hyped. Was it was all overrated and miscalculated? Maybe so. There will never be another Tiger because the business world won't fall for it again.

[csv]

Tigers scoring average was better than any player today by a good margin. Nobody in the history of golf scored the way TW did in his prime.

Jack and Tiger always had a 2nd gear too.

During the 97 Masters I believe Tiger hit PW into the 500+ yard par 4 all four days. There were players using 4 irons for their 2nd shot. Here's a link that shows how truly dominant Woods was in his heyday.

 

From 1997 through 2008, Woods was a combined 126 under par in majors. There are 138 other players who played at least 40 rounds in major championships in that span. Among that group, Woods was a staggering 189 shots better than anyone else. Second on the list: Joe Ogilvie, at 63 over.

[bscinstnct]

The end of Nike golf hard goods shows that maybe there never was a Tiger. Tiger effect that is. There was (and is) a golfer named Tiger Woods, who transcended the sport of golf and forever will be legend. This golfer put fear into others like no one ever will or can and is arguably the very best to have lived. The world swooned, courses were made, clubs were built, growth was hyped. Was it was all overrated and miscalculated? Maybe so. There will never be another Tiger because the business world won't fall for it again.

 

[jslane57]

The end of Nike golf hard goods shows that maybe there never was a Tiger. Tiger effect that is. There was (and is) a golfer named Tiger Woods, who transcended the sport of golf and forever will be legend. This golfer put fear into others like no one ever will or can and is arguably the very best to have lived. The world swooned, courses were made, clubs were built, growth was hyped. Was it was all overrated and miscalculated? Maybe so. There will never be another Tiger because the business world won't fall for it again.

 

Happy Birthday!

[chippa13]

Funny memory from playing years back when Tiger was crushing it. We were on a long par 5 and I looked down at one of the sprinkler heads for my second shot and instead of yards to the green, the head was simply painted with "Tiger only".

[Undershooter30]

I think Tiger averaged 323 at Augusta in 1997 which, correct me if I'm wrong, has never been equaled. Daly was about 300 that year. Tiger himself claimed that he dialed his swing back immensely after that although it sure looked like he swung for the fences from time to time. That I believe is why they coined the term "Tiger-Proofing".

 

About Day, he reminds me so much of Tiger and seems to drive the ball every bit as wildly from time to time. Day is 175th in proximity to the edge of the fairway when he misses (Furyk is 2nd) and 182nd in proximity when he hits the fairway (Scott is first!). Both of those sound awful, but Dustin is actually worse (179th and 200th). Strokes gained off the tee seems flawed to me and doesn't adequately punish crooked driving.

 

Just for comparison the earliest year for those new stats is 2008 and the earliest Tiger year was 2009. Here are his numbers:

 

135th in proximity to the edge of the fairway when he misses

13th in proximity when he hits the fairway

 

or 2012 his best driving year under Foley:

 

147th in proximity to the edge of the fairway when he misses

93rd in proximity when he hits the fairway

I'm confused by how you think that strokes gained driving "inadequately punishes crooked driving." All strokes gained does is tell you how far ahead of the field the person is off the tee. There is no bias about that. Its tied into scoring. Longer players have a bigger advantage than fairway finders. That isn't to say that being in the fairway isn't important because it is. Sometimes more than others. But 90% of the time I'd rather be 330 in the rough than 270 in the fairway assuming all things are equal. Last year everyone always talked about Speith being so short off the tee but in reality his driver gained shots for him because he had a decent amount of length and kept it straight enough to gain strokes on most players.

Rory, DJ and Bubba are the top 3 in strokes gained off the tee but they are respectively 71,145 and 171 ranked in finding the fairway. They are also 3 of the longest players on tour. Colt Knost on the other hand is #1 in accuracy at nearly 74% and ranks 131 in strokes gained off of the tee because he is a much shorter hitter. Accuracy has never been much of a measure of how good someone drives the golf ball.

Long and out of trouble is the way to go.

[melo]

For anyone who thinks he wouldn't have an advantage today:

 

"He stood out because of the flabbergasting length of his drives -- 323 yards on average, 25 yards longer than the next player on the chart."

 

That would be THREE TWENTY THREE...with a BALATA...not a pro v1

 

and here is this year's masters...where he would have had...waiiiiitttttt for itttt, waaaaaiiiiiiittttt for it....a 24 yard advantage over Dustin Johnson.

 

http://www.masters.com/en_US/scores/stats/drives_avg.html

 

Now shut up. Tiger wins, period. Whether you like him, hate him. Think he was overhyped or underhyped. He hit a golf ball better than anyone who ever teed it up.

[chippa13]

These days Tiger couldn't hit a fairway if he fell out of a cart.

[Undershooter30]

These days Tiger couldn't hit a fairway if he fell out of a cart.

I think we've covered fairways hit being about as pointless as a poopy flavored lolly pop. Want to try something else?

[rockinar]

There's not another Tiger now because none of the current players are good enough to even hold Tiger's jock.

[chippa13]

These days Tiger couldn't hit a fairway if he fell out of a cart.

I think we've covered fairways hit being about as pointless as a poopy flavored lolly pop. Want to try something else?

 

Hooray, its the fun police.

[Roadking2003]

Tigers scoring average was better than any player today by a good margin. Nobody in the history of golf scored the way TW did in his prime.

 

Except Byron Nelson. Nelson's scoring average in 1945 was 68.34. Tiger only beat that record one time; in 2000.

[Roadking2003]

For anyone who thinks he wouldn't have an advantage today:

 

"He stood out because of the flabbergasting length of his drives -- 323 yards on average, 25 yards longer than the next player on the chart."

 

That would be THREE TWENTY THREE...with a BALATA...not a pro v1

 

 

I watched Tiger his entire career and he never hit it 25 yards farther than all the other players. In fact, Tiger NEVER EVEN ONE YEAR had the longest driving average on the PGA Tour.

[Undershooter30]

These days Tiger couldn't hit a fairway if he fell out of a cart.

I think we've covered fairways hit being about as pointless as a poopy flavored lolly pop. Want to try something else?

 

Hooray, its the fun police.

K. You done?