Why there can't be a Tiger now

[Lodestone]

Being the GOAT has nothing to do with longevity. Not sure how you slipped that into the criteria but it simply isn't part of the equation for most people. If Tiger has beaten Jacks record by age 30 and retired would you still insist he's would not be in the conversation because he didn't continue playing into his 50's?

 

Could you list all of his records being broken? Please make them significant and not simple manufactured records used by commentators to fill air time."Longest drive on a Friday into a northwest wind with a four piece ball on a white tee since Tiger in 08"

 

Generally, I'm on the Tiger side of this argument. To say there could not be a Tiger today because the fields are too strong to allow it, is to insist that Tiger was not the superior golfer that he was.

However, I disagree with your assertion that longevity has nothing to do with GOAT. It was Jack's longevity that allowed him to put his career majors total out of reach for Tiger. Jack had the longevity, Tiger did not. Winning majors in his 40s, while Tiger seemingly has been done since 37 or 38, counts for something.

[melo]

So interesting...from yesterday's interviews with players:

 

"I don't think there's any Tiger out here right now. I think that's fair to say." - Spieth

[Cicero]

Being the GOAT has nothing to do with longevity. Not sure how you slipped that into the criteria but it simply isn't part of the equation for most people. If Tiger has beaten Jacks record by age 30 and retired would you still insist he's would not be in the conversation because he didn't continue playing into his 50's?

 

Could you list all of his records being broken? Please make them significant and not simple manufactured records used by commentators to fill air time."Longest drive on a Friday into a northwest wind with a four piece ball on a white tee since Tiger in 08"

 

Generally, I'm on the Tiger side of this argument. To say there could not be a Tiger today because the fields are too strong to allow it, is to insist that Tiger was not the superior golfer that he was.

However, I disagree with your assertion that longevity has nothing to do with GOAT. It was Jack's longevity that allowed him to put his career majors total out of reach for Tiger. Jack had the longevity, Tiger did not. Winning majors in his 40s, while Tiger seemingly has been done since 37 or 38, counts for something.

 

I think it depends on what criteria you use to define greatness. Football running backs are a good example. Emmitt Smith holds the record for most yards, but many more people will have Jim Brown, Barry Sanders, or Walter Payton as the greatest over him (not a knock on him, either).

 

Same thing with basketball. Jordan is widely considered the GOAT. But he doesn't own the scoring record (something that Kareem and Malone achieved in part by their longevity), nor does he have the most rings.

 

Again, it depends on whether you're talking majors, or level of play/talent.

 

Either way, it's a great debate that will last until someone else comes along in 20-30 years and makes it moot.

[EKELLY]

Anybody know what a "closer" is????????.........That's a guy that can finish the BIG tournaments on Sunday, and collect the BIG trophy......I REALLY appreciate Tiger's career, and accomplishments, I REALLY do.....BUT, Tiger NEVER played against a "closer", as Jack had to with Watson, Trevino, Player, etc......Only YE Yang stepped up and BEAT Tiger on a Sunday at a Major.......Jack got beat numerous times when it counted, on Sunday at a Major....I still think Tiger's run is the best ever, but he didn't have the "closers" to beat on Sunday, just a bunch of underachievers like Mediate, May. and DiMarco.......Not exactly your World Golf Hall of Fame list!!!.....

[cdnglf]

Anybody know what a "closer" is????????.........That's a guy that can finish the BIG tournaments on Sunday, and collect the BIG trophy......I REALLY appreciate Tiger's career, and accomplishments, I REALLY do.....BUT, Tiger NEVER played against a "closer", as Jack had to with Watson, Trevino, Player, etc......Only YE Yang stepped up and BEAT Tiger on a Sunday at a Major.......Jack got beat numerous times when it counted, on Sunday at a Major....I still think Tiger's run is the best ever, but he didn't have the "closers" to beat on Sunday, just a bunch of underachievers like Mediate, May. and DiMarco.......Not exactly your World Golf Hall of Fame list!!!.....

 

[bscinstnct]

Anybody know what a "closer" is????????.........That's a guy that can finish the BIG tournaments on Sunday, and collect the BIG trophy......I REALLY appreciate Tiger's career, and accomplishments, I REALLY do.....BUT, Tiger NEVER played against a "closer", as Jack had to with Watson, Trevino, Player, etc......Only YE Yang stepped up and BEAT Tiger on a Sunday at a Major.......Jack got beat numerous times when it counted, on Sunday at a Major....I still think Tiger's run is the best ever, but he didn't have the "closers" to beat on Sunday, just a bunch of underachievers like Mediate, May. and DiMarco.......Not exactly your World Golf Hall of Fame list!!!.....

 

Phil has 42 pga tour wins. Thats more than Tom Watson.

 

VJ has 34 pga tour wins. Thats more than Lee Trevino.

 

Ernie has 19 pga tour wins and 28 euro tour wins. Not too shabby.

 

All easily hof golfers with plenty of BIG tournament closes.

 

But, you probably knew all that already ; )

 

 

[Woodrow]

Jack and Tiger used to win majors by letting the other guys stagger. Nowadays almost every major is won by a really solid performance. There are several in the hunt who do not choke it away. The level of performance is at the top of the heap is more often than now very high level. No one can sustain this but several can execute it. Look at Stenson and Phil. No one is surprised by what they did. Nor if DJ or Day or Rory or Speith or ... set a record in a major.

 

There are just a lot of guys who can really bring it now.

 

Great stuff. But I can't see a Tiger emerging in this environment. Even he would not have had the run he had if he had come on the scene now.

 

Once in a generation. Be happy and content that you saw it. It's like an earthquake. You know it's going to happen, you just don't know when. Enjoy the player's now and look back with fond memories.

[nsxguy]

Anybody know what a "closer" is????????.........That's a guy that can finish the BIG tournaments on Sunday, and collect the BIG trophy......I REALLY appreciate Tiger's career, and accomplishments, I REALLY do.....BUT, Tiger NEVER played against a "closer", as Jack had to with Watson, Trevino, Player, etc......Only YE Yang stepped up and BEAT Tiger on a Sunday at a Major.......Jack got beat numerous times when it counted, on Sunday at a Major....I still think Tiger's run is the best ever, but he didn't have the "closers" to beat on Sunday, just a bunch of underachievers like Mediate, May. and DiMarco.......Not exactly your World Golf Hall of Fame list!!!.....

 

 

What ? You don't like his opinion so he's a troll ?

 

That's even more tired than the CB vs blade debates.

 

Almost wish I was a "Mod". Frankly, anyone who has to resort to "troll" just to score a point or torque somebody off, should be given a time out.

 

Just one person's opinion,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[Scotty1140]

There can't be another Tiger because the Tour Talk forum would absolutely implode with double the amount of repetitive threads where the same people piss and moan about the same things over and over.

[EKELLY]

Anybody know what a "closer" is????????.........That's a guy that can finish the BIG tournaments on Sunday, and collect the BIG trophy......I REALLY appreciate Tiger's career, and accomplishments, I REALLY do.....BUT, Tiger NEVER played against a "closer", as Jack had to with Watson, Trevino, Player, etc......Only YE Yang stepped up and BEAT Tiger on a Sunday at a Major.......Jack got beat numerous times when it counted, on Sunday at a Major....I still think Tiger's run is the best ever, but he didn't have the "closers" to beat on Sunday, just a bunch of underachievers like Mediate, May. and DiMarco.......Not exactly your World Golf Hall of Fame list!!!.....

 

Phil has 42 pga tour wins. Thats more than Tom Watson.

 

VJ has 34 pga tour wins. Thats more than Lee Trevino.

 

Ernie has 19 pga tour wins and 28 euro tour wins. Not too shabby.

 

All easily hof golfers with plenty of BIG tournament closes.

 

But, you probably knew all that already ; )

I agree 100%, but they never BEAT Tiger head to head to win a major...........NOBODY stepped up on Sunday and beat Tiger, that's all I'm saying.......Jack got BEAT numerous times on Sunday........Head to head, everyone was scared of Tiger........Jack brought out the best in Trevino and Watson.....They alone cost Jack 4 majors, maybe 5.......

[Shilgy]

Anybody know what a "closer" is????????.........That's a guy that can finish the BIG tournaments on Sunday, and collect the BIG trophy......I REALLY appreciate Tiger's career, and accomplishments, I REALLY do.....BUT, Tiger NEVER played against a "closer", as Jack had to with Watson, Trevino, Player, etc......Only YE Yang stepped up and BEAT Tiger on a Sunday at a Major.......Jack got beat numerous times when it counted, on Sunday at a Major....I still think Tiger's run is the best ever, but he didn't have the "closers" to beat on Sunday, just a bunch of underachievers like Mediate, May. and DiMarco.......Not exactly your World Golf Hall of Fame list!!!.....

 

Phil has 42 pga tour wins. Thats more than Tom Watson.

 

VJ has 34 pga tour wins. Thats more than Lee Trevino.

 

Ernie has 19 pga tour wins and 28 euro tour wins. Not too shabby.

 

All easily hof golfers with plenty of BIG tournament closes.

 

But, you probably knew all that already ; )

I agree 100%, but they never BEAT Tiger head to head to win a major...........NOBODY stepped up on Sunday and beat Tiger, that's all I'm saying.......Jack got BEAT numerous times on Sunday........Head to head, everyone was scared of Tiger........Jack brought out the best in Trevino and Watson.....They alone cost Jack 4 majors, maybe 5.......

So you're saying Jack wasn't a closer? 19 runner-ups say he was great at putting himself in contention but failed over half the time. Stats are funny eh?

[Roadking2003]

However, I disagree with your assertion that longevity has nothing to do with GOAT. It was Jack's longevity that allowed him to put his career majors total out of reach for Tiger. Jack had the longevity, Tiger did not. Winning majors in his 40s, while Tiger seemingly has been done since 37 or 38, counts for something.

 

Actually, he hasn't won a major since age 32.

 

For me, the greatest golfer ever is about their career, not a portion of their career.

 

Jack: Greatest golfer ever by a wide margin.

 

Tiger: Greatest hot streak ever. Greatest 10 year stretch ever.

[Shilgy]

However, I disagree with your assertion that longevity has nothing to do with GOAT. It was Jack's longevity that allowed him to put his career majors total out of reach for Tiger. Jack had the longevity, Tiger did not. Winning majors in his 40s, while Tiger seemingly has been done since 37 or 38, counts for something.

 

Actually, he hasn't won a major since age 32.

 

For me, the greatest golfer ever is about their career, not a portion of their career.

 

Jack: Greatest golfer ever by a wide margin.

 

Tiger: Greatest hot streak ever. Greatest 10 year stretch ever.

79-71 individual wins.

[jffuller]

Anybody know what a "closer" is????????.........That's a guy that can finish the BIG tournaments on Sunday, and collect the BIG trophy......I REALLY appreciate Tiger's career, and accomplishments, I REALLY do.....BUT, Tiger NEVER played against a "closer", as Jack had to with Watson, Trevino, Player, etc......Only YE Yang stepped up and BEAT Tiger on a Sunday at a Major.......Jack got beat numerous times when it counted, on Sunday at a Major....I still think Tiger's run is the best ever, but he didn't have the "closers" to beat on Sunday, just a bunch of underachievers like Mediate, May. and DiMarco.......Not exactly your World Golf Hall of Fame list!!!.....

 

Phil has 42 pga tour wins. Thats more than Tom Watson.

 

VJ has 34 pga tour wins. Thats more than Lee Trevino.

 

Ernie has 19 pga tour wins and 28 euro tour wins. Not too shabby.

 

All easily hof golfers with plenty of BIG tournament closes.

 

But, you probably knew all that already ; )

I agree 100%, but they never BEAT Tiger head to head to win a major...........NOBODY stepped up on Sunday and beat Tiger, that's all I'm saying.......Jack got BEAT numerous times on Sunday........Head to head, everyone was scared of Tiger........Jack brought out the best in Trevino and Watson.....They alone cost Jack 4 majors, maybe 5.......

 

This is the best....Tiger's majors weren't as good as Jack's because he never lost head to head, other than YE Yang. So by losing to other players Jack becomes greater? Makes complete sense.

[Roadking2003]

79-71 individual wins.

 

Tiger himself said the goal was 19 majors and he lived his entire life with that goal. Not individual wins.

[Shilgy]

79-71 individual wins.

 

Tiger himself said the goal was 19 majors and he lived his entire life with that goal. Not individual wins.

You could be correct. I have always read Tiger had ALL of Jack's marks on the bedroom wall and dreamed of competing with that. My point about the wins was in response to Jack's career versus a so called decade of Tiger. If that's the case how did Tiger win more events.

.... Oh yeah, I forgot the weak field arguments..

[nsxguy]

79-71 individual wins.

 

Tiger himself said the goal was 19 majors and he lived his entire life with that goal. Not individual wins.

You could be correct. I have always read Tiger had ALL of Jack's marks on the bedroom wall and dreamed of competing with that. My point about the wins was in response to Jack's career versus a so called decade of Tiger. If that's the case how did Tiger win more events.

.... Oh yeah, I forgot the weak field arguments..

 

Tiger won 71 times from '96-'09, his 14 year "prime".

 

Jack won 68 times between '62 and '78, his 17 year "prime".

 

Not much to be very "picky" about either way.

 

If Tiger hadn't made SUCH a point about beating Jack's Major record, who knows what history would be saying about him,,,,,,,,, heck, who knows if he's really done,,,,,,,,,,,

[bscinstnct]

[Shilgy]

79-71 individual wins.

 

Tiger himself said the goal was 19 majors and he lived his entire life with that goal. Not individual wins.

You could be correct. I have always read Tiger had ALL of Jack's marks on the bedroom wall and dreamed of competing with that. My point about the wins was in response to Jack's career versus a so called decade of Tiger. If that's the case how did Tiger win more events.

.... Oh yeah, I forgot the weak field arguments..

 

Tiger won 71 times from '96-'09, his 14 year "prime".

 

Jack won 68 times between '62 and '78, his 17 year "prime".

 

Not much to be very "picky" about either way.

 

If Tiger hadn't made SUCH a point about beating Jack's Major record, who knows what history would be saying about him,,,,,,,,, heck, who knows if he's really done,,,,,,,,,,,

So Jack averages 4 wins a year for 17 years and Woods wins three more times in three fewer years and they are equal in your mind? Hmmm. Jack has the majors, Tiger had more wins and more " big" wins, wgc's and such which did not exist in Jack's era. The careers are pretty much a wash i would agree. Jack majors and Tiger wins.

[nsxguy]

79-71 individual wins.

 

Tiger himself said the goal was 19 majors and he lived his entire life with that goal. Not individual wins.

You could be correct. I have always read Tiger had ALL of Jack's marks on the bedroom wall and dreamed of competing with that. My point about the wins was in response to Jack's career versus a so called decade of Tiger. If that's the case how did Tiger win more events.

.... Oh yeah, I forgot the weak field arguments..

 

Tiger won 71 times from '96-'09, his 14 year "prime".

 

Jack won 68 times between '62 and '78, his 17 year "prime".

 

Not much to be very "picky" about either way.

 

If Tiger hadn't made SUCH a point about beating Jack's Major record, who knows what history would be saying about him,,,,,,,,, heck, who knows if he's really done,,,,,,,,,,,

So Jack averages 4 wins a year for 17 years and Woods wins three more times in three fewer years and they are equal in your mind? Hmmm. Jack has the majors, Tiger had more wins and more " big" wins, wgc's and such which did not exist in Jack's era. The careers are pretty much a wash i would agree. Jack majors and Tiger wins.

 

I don't think I said "equal",,,,,,,,,,

[Shilgy]

^^

Sorry, guess I misunderstood. When you compared:

 

Tiger won 71 times from '96-'09, his 14 year "prime".

 

Jack won 68 times between '62 and '78, his 17 year "prime".

 

Not much to be very "picky" about either way.

 

 

I read the "not much to be picky about" as saying they were equal.

[Roadking2003]

The only measure is lifetime majors. I'm quite certain Tiger would agree.

[EKELLY]

Anybody know what a "closer" is????????.........That's a guy that can finish the BIG tournaments on Sunday, and collect the BIG trophy......I REALLY appreciate Tiger's career, and accomplishments, I REALLY do.....BUT, Tiger NEVER played against a "closer", as Jack had to with Watson, Trevino, Player, etc......Only YE Yang stepped up and BEAT Tiger on a Sunday at a Major.......Jack got beat numerous times when it counted, on Sunday at a Major....I still think Tiger's run is the best ever, but he didn't have the "closers" to beat on Sunday, just a bunch of underachievers like Mediate, May. and DiMarco.......Not exactly your World Golf Hall of Fame list!!!.....

 

Phil has 42 pga tour wins. Thats more than Tom Watson.

 

VJ has 34 pga tour wins. Thats more than Lee Trevino.

 

Ernie has 19 pga tour wins and 28 euro tour wins. Not too shabby.

 

All easily hof golfers with plenty of BIG tournament closes.

 

But, you probably knew all that already ; )

I agree 100%, but they never BEAT Tiger head to head to win a major...........NOBODY stepped up on Sunday and beat Tiger, that's all I'm saying.......Jack got BEAT numerous times on Sunday........Head to head, everyone was scared of Tiger........Jack brought out the best in Trevino and Watson.....They alone cost Jack 4 majors, maybe 5.......

 

This is the best....Tiger's majors weren't as good as Jack's because he never lost head to head, other than YE Yang. So by losing to other players Jack becomes greater? Makes complete sense.

Because Jack played against better players!!......That's the point!......Period!!........Tiger lost the race Bud, karma will prevent him from EVER winning another major. Still had the best run ever, but all that egg on his face will result in a fabulous 14 major career.......LMAO

[nsxguy]

^^

Sorry, guess I misunderstood. When you compared:

 

Tiger won 71 times from '96-'09, his 14 year "prime".

 

Jack won 68 times between '62 and '78, his 17 year "prime".

 

Not much to be very "picky" about either way.

 

 

I read the "not much to be picky about" as saying they were equal.

 

No worries.

 

I find these "Who's the greatest ?" discussions pretty meaningless, especially when the players are from different eras.

 

Kind of like the first law of physics - "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction". "For every argument for or against a player there's an equal and opposite argument".

 

Like "He was head and shoulders above the rest" vs. "He had better competition".

[melo]

Anybody know what a "closer" is????????.........That's a guy that can finish the BIG tournaments on Sunday, and collect the BIG trophy......I REALLY appreciate Tiger's career, and accomplishments, I REALLY do.....BUT, Tiger NEVER played against a "closer", as Jack had to with Watson, Trevino, Player, etc......Only YE Yang stepped up and BEAT Tiger on a Sunday at a Major.......Jack got beat numerous times when it counted, on Sunday at a Major....I still think Tiger's run is the best ever, but he didn't have the "closers" to beat on Sunday, just a bunch of underachievers like Mediate, May. and DiMarco.......Not exactly your World Golf Hall of Fame list!!!.....

 

Phil has 42 pga tour wins. Thats more than Tom Watson.

 

VJ has 34 pga tour wins. Thats more than Lee Trevino.

 

Ernie has 19 pga tour wins and 28 euro tour wins. Not too shabby.

 

All easily hof golfers with plenty of BIG tournament closes.

 

But, you probably knew all that already ; )

I agree 100%, but they never BEAT Tiger head to head to win a major...........NOBODY stepped up on Sunday and beat Tiger, that's all I'm saying.......Jack got BEAT numerous times on Sunday........Head to head, everyone was scared of Tiger........Jack brought out the best in Trevino and Watson.....They alone cost Jack 4 majors, maybe 5.......

 

This is the best....Tiger's majors weren't as good as Jack's because he never lost head to head, other than YE Yang. So by losing to other players Jack becomes greater? Makes complete sense.

Because Jack played against better players!!......That's the point!......Period!!........Tiger lost the race Bud, karma will prevent him from EVER winning another major. Still had the best run ever, but all that egg on his face will result in a fabulous 14 major career.......LMAO

wait so now we are saying the fields were better BEFORE and AFTER Tiger?!? wow, so he must just been a pretty average guy that came along at the right time. funny that at 100 year+ of professional golf, only 2 guys have ever won 4 majors in a row, no matter what the fields were.

 

if you ask anyone, including Jack or Arnie or Spieth or Day, they will all tell you the same thing - No one has ever struck a golf ball better than Tiger Woods

[Jasonic]

Beat head against wall > reading this thread

[bscinstnct]

Its pretty simple,

 

 

"Tiger's better"

 

-Lee Trevino

 

 

 

"He's the best..."

 

-Tom Watson

[EKELLY]

Its pretty simple,

 

 

"Tiger's better"

 

-Lee Trevino

 

 

 

"He's the best..."

 

-Tom Watson

I'll end the troll fest now, as I'm going out to drink a few Heineken's and break par AGAIN this week.............

[bscinstnct]

Its pretty simple,

 

 

"Tiger's better"

 

-Lee Trevino

 

 

 

"He's the best..."

 

-Tom Watson

I'll end the troll fest now, as I'm going out to drink a few Heineken's and break par AGAIN this week.............

 

Nice. Heinekens are refreshing. Tried the light? Its not bad.

[jffuller]

Anybody know what a "closer" is????????.........That's a guy that can finish the BIG tournaments on Sunday, and collect the BIG trophy......I REALLY appreciate Tiger's career, and accomplishments, I REALLY do.....BUT, Tiger NEVER played against a "closer", as Jack had to with Watson, Trevino, Player, etc......Only YE Yang stepped up and BEAT Tiger on a Sunday at a Major.......Jack got beat numerous times when it counted, on Sunday at a Major....I still think Tiger's run is the best ever, but he didn't have the "closers" to beat on Sunday, just a bunch of underachievers like Mediate, May. and DiMarco.......Not exactly your World Golf Hall of Fame list!!!.....

 

Phil has 42 pga tour wins. Thats more than Tom Watson.

 

VJ has 34 pga tour wins. Thats more than Lee Trevino.

 

Ernie has 19 pga tour wins and 28 euro tour wins. Not too shabby.

 

All easily hof golfers with plenty of BIG tournament closes.

 

But, you probably knew all that already ; )

I agree 100%, but they never BEAT Tiger head to head to win a major...........NOBODY stepped up on Sunday and beat Tiger, that's all I'm saying.......Jack got BEAT numerous times on Sunday........Head to head, everyone was scared of Tiger........Jack brought out the best in Trevino and Watson.....They alone cost Jack 4 majors, maybe 5.......

 

This is the best....Tiger's majors weren't as good as Jack's because he never lost head to head, other than YE Yang. So by losing to other players Jack becomes greater? Makes complete sense.

Because Jack played against better players!!......That's the point!......Period!!........Tiger lost the race Bud, karma will prevent him from EVER winning another major. Still had the best run ever, but all that egg on his face will result in a fabulous 14 major career.......LMAO

 

There are plenty of arguments for Jack's greatness, 18 majors being chief among them. But him repeatedly losing on Sunday's doesn't do anything for his legacy but make him look worse. Also it's easier for more players to win multiple majors when the talent pool isn't as deep, with the growth of the game internationally when tiger was at his peak there were more players capable of winning top to bottom. 3x the players averaged under par (150+) in 2000 than did in 1970 (when they first started tracking scoring average).