Rory Calls Muirfield Decision "Obscene...."

[Forged4ever]

FWIW, that stuff wouldn't fly with the Free Masons?

 

My Best,

RP

How long can Freemasonry survive before it too must bow to the demands of the PC movement?

While there have been certain decisions made and policies and protocol adopted that I would attribute to changing and evolving with the times, I myself cannot think of any that were PC based-

 

Having traveled in the East, I told the Gents that Free Masonry is a volunteer organization-

 

You voluntarily join and you may voluntarily demit-

 

It was here before us and will be here long after we're gone, whether by passing or demitting~

 

Have a great evening Bro?

 

My Best,

RP

[anth]

Muirfield is a private club that held a vote to allow women members. The members voted and it appears they have changed their mind. Why is that anyone else's business? Just like people decry political correctness, it seems to me there are plenty ready to take up the fight against it on behalf of others. They weren't forced. They voted.

[heavy_hitter]

If you want to talk about real discrimination, it is allowing so called transgenders transitioning to woman to use woman's bathrooms. That is discrimination against woman. The NCAA, ACC and other organizations moving their games and championships from North Carolina are discriminating against my daughter and other woman. They are also hypocrites. If it is OK for men (if you are born with a Johnson you are a male. Don't care what anyone says) to use woman restrooms, then why aren't these organizations allowing men to play in women's basketball. Why can't any man just walk into the women's locker room? That is the real hypocrisy. It isn't women not being allowed to join a PRIVATE men's club.

[nbg352]

Muirfield is a private club that held a vote to allow women members. The members voted and it appears they have changed their mind. Why is that anyone else's business? Just like people decry political correctness, it seems to me there are plenty ready to take up the fight against it on behalf of others. They weren't forced. They voted.

Or, alternately, embrace PC or pay the piper in lost revenue.......

[bscinstnct]

If you want to talk about real discrimination, it is allowing so called transgenders transitioning to woman to use woman's bathrooms. That is discrimination against woman. The NCAA, ACC and other organizations moving their games and championships from North Carolina are discriminating against my daughter and other woman. They are also hypocrites. If it is OK for men (if you are born with a Johnson you are a male. Don't care what anyone says) to use woman restrooms, then why aren't these organizations allowing men to play in women's basketball. Why can't any man just walk into the women's locker room? That is the real hypocrisy. It isn't women not being allowed to join a PRIVATE men's club.

 

Johnson?

[Forged4ever]

If you want to talk about real discrimination, it is allowing so called transgenders transitioning to woman to use woman's bathrooms. That is discrimination against woman. The NCAA, ACC and other organizations moving their games and championships from North Carolina are discriminating against my daughter and other woman. They are also hypocrites. If it is OK for men (if you are born with a Johnson you are a male. Don't care what anyone says) to use woman restrooms, then why aren't these organizations allowing men to play in women's basketball. Why can't any man just walk into the women's locker room? That is the real hypocrisy. It isn't women not being allowed to join a PRIVATE men's club.

I agree 100% Bro however this is a topic that strikes nerves that run deeper than I believe that a golf board or thread can appropriately deal with. I happen to have a good friend who's daughter/son is the poster person in this area and even nationally and it has strained our relationship to a point that I never would have imagined as we go back decades.

 

I would greatly appreciate it if we could just let this one lay :)

 

Johnson????

 

WTF??

 

I'm kiddin!!!!!?

 

Thanks much to all!

 

My Best,

Richard

[anth]

Muirfield is a private club that held a vote to allow women members. The members voted and it appears they have changed their mind. Why is that anyone else's business? Just like people decry political correctness, it seems to me there are plenty ready to take up the fight against it on behalf of others. They weren't forced. They voted.

Or, alternately, embrace PC or pay the piper in lost revenue.......

Exactly. So it seems they made a pragmatic decision, and maybe they value the $$$$ more than their principles...

[BMC]

I'll bet Muirfield is hard to get into...FOR ANYONE! Yes, they're discriminatory, for many different reasons.

[nbg352]

Muirfield is a private club that held a vote to allow women members. The members voted and it appears they have changed their mind. Why is that anyone else's business? Just like people decry political correctness, it seems to me there are plenty ready to take up the fight against it on behalf of others. They weren't forced. They voted.

Or, alternately, embrace PC or pay the piper in lost revenue.......

Exactly. So it seems they made a pragmatic decision, and maybe they value the $$$$ more than their principles...

That can be said accurately, of a great many others both individual and corporate who fully understand what side of the bread to butter.....

[wfwp]

Issue: The conditions for holding The Open Championship and The Olympics requires the member clubs to be inclusive of all in their membership. If Muirfield and Kasumigaseki Country Club prefer to remain men's only clubs over hosting the respective events then they can. This is a positive statement and an expected evolution by the governing sports organizations holding international events.

[stage1350]

Does this mean that I can now go sweat up the weights at a Curves? Can I freely go stink up the Ladies room with a nice, smelly dump? No? Oh well...

 

Here's what I don't get. What did this movement solve? Even when Augusta decided that they would allow women members, they didn't go out the next day and find one. It happened when it happened.

 

One of my best friend's fathers was offered a membership at a US Open course. One of the elite courses in the area. He turned it down because he didn't want to be the "token." (His words) He wanted a membership where he would be accepted not just for his achievements (Great athlete, well known businessman), but where he would be accepted and welcome. This was back in the '70s and he understood that inclusion doesn't occur by force.

 

Whether it's a women's club, a jewish club, an irish club, or any other club that only allows inclusion based on certain attributes, these were often started because the people had something in common. They wanted to share in that commonality. It wasn't necessarily designed to exclude, but does have certain necessities for inclusion. This is not necessarily bad and not everything needs to be 100% open to all. I belong to an organization that discriminates. But before calling me a bigot, you might want to know the criteria for membership before you go SJW on me. You'd find that inclusion for all just wouldn't work.

[Forged4ever]

I belong to an organization THAT DISCRIMINATES. But before calling me a bigot, you might want to know the criteria for membership before you go SJW on me.

I don't need to know anything else!!

 

I used to like you but now YOU SUCK??

 

Stay well My discriminatory Friend?

 

My Best,

RP

[bscinstnct]

Does this mean that I can now go sweat up the weights at a Curves? Can I freely go stink up the Ladies room with a nice, smelly dump? No? Oh well...

 

Here's what I don't get. What did this movement solve? Even when Augusta decided that they would allow women members, they didn't go out the next day and find one. It happened when it happened.

 

One of my best friend's fathers was offered a membership at a US Open course. One of the elite courses in the area. He turned it down because he didn't want to be the "token." (His words) He wanted a membership where he would be accepted not just for his achievements (Great athlete, well known businessman), but where he would be accepted and welcome. This was back in the '70s and he understood that inclusion doesn't occur by force.

 

Whether it's a women's club, a jewish club, an irish club, or any other club that only allows inclusion based on certain attributes, these were often started because the people had something in common. They wanted to share in that commonality. It wasn't necessarily designed to exclude, but does have certain necessities for inclusion. This is not necessarily bad and not everything needs to be 100% open to all. I belong to an organization that discriminates. But before calling me a bigot, you might want to know the criteria for membership before you go SJW on me. You'd find that inclusion for all just wouldn't work.

 

Exactly. They should have just opened the doors without pressure.

 

None would have joined.

 

[ezpz]

Overreaction by Rory, although I personally dislike excluding women it is their right to do so and if the governing body decides that including women in membership should be required to be in the rota muirfield members will have to live with not hosting it. Obvious hypocrisy will be that if it was a local s*** track no one would care if women could be a member or not but because it is a course with this level of prestige they are somehow subjected to another level of scrutiny.

[Outlier]

Political correctness and the "equality movement" are destroying the very fabric of anything special in this world. Whether its having too much money, too big of a home, too nice of a car, too good of a job, or in this case, belonging to a certain type of club that only admits a certain person, someone is now offended. Daily. And its now in full bloom headed by the generation where all people do is whine and complain about something. Muirfield is a private club. They should be able to admit and set up their club however they damn well please within the law. Its not "discrimination" for crying out loud. I mean, if you listen to the SJW in this world, you'd think we still have bathrooms and bubblers labeled "COLOREDS" above them, and that the women's suffrage movement was still in full swing. The problem is we have too many people in this world worrying about everyone else too much and not worrying about THEMSELVES enough.

 

Which is exactly what they are entitled to, and exactly what they received. No one forced Muirfield to change their policy. If they so chose(like they did previously), they could still be male-only. Political correctness didn't force Muirfield to change, they changed because another organization has something they want (an Open). Unfortunately, political correctness has come to mean 'there was a consequence to my action that I don't like'.

 

 

1000 likes if I could!!

 

you said it all right here:

 

Unfortunately, political correctness has come to mean 'there was a consequence to my action that I don't like'.

[Bagz1880]

Can someone expand on the tax exempt status and other benefits the club gets?

 

To me it's not about "discrimination" so to speak. But I do think it's a valid discussion to have about a social club that is getting benefits from the government but specifically excludes members of the community.

 

Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree but I'd just like someone with knowledge to explain that part of it to me

 

I'm not a UK tax lawyer, but I don't think Muirfield has any special tax status, as such. The revenue authorities in the UK (HMRC) do not regard any transactions between a member-owned club and its members as being in the nature of trade and as such no tax liability arises where, say, the members buy food and drink from the club bar. But this applies whether the club is Muirfield or the Castleford Ladies Magic Circle. (It's different if the club is a 'proprietory' club where the ownership of the club is different from the membership (for instance Gleneagles in Scotland or Wentworth in England) - in this case the club is regarded as a trading business and taxed accordingly.)

 

Where it gets a little more tricky is when the members-only club allows visitors to use its facilities. If you or I have £230 burning a hole in our pocket, and it's a Tuesday or Thursday, we can play Muirfield as a visitor, and have a meal and a drink in the clubhouse (provided we have a coat and tie). In this case the club will be providing services to us on a commercial basis and will be liable to tax on any surplus made. Of course, the issue for the Muirfields of this world is how large that surplus is, but that's why they employ clever accountants.

 

It might be worth adding that member-owned clubs in the UK will be taxed in the normal way on their other income, such as deposit interest or dividends.

[bunter101]

Augusta - 2 female members

R&A - 9 female members

Muirfield - i'll hazard a guess at around 4.... Maximum.

 

Absolute token BS.

 

Rory bleating that Muirfield didn't incorporate the token BSism after the first vote and that 20% still voted against it was obscene.

Faux outrage i'm afraid.

[jslane57]

So The Open wants to be played on a course that admits women. Good for it! Women will be spectators. Women will be advertisers. Women will consumers. Women are golfers. Rory is spot on. It is obscene that Muirfield has to be coerced to allow women as members. And that is the issue. Not that they were a men's only club, but they are not wanting to change, yet they want the benefit of hosting The Open. This says that the members of Muirfield value women as second class. This statement will get argument, but it is simply the truth. If you value women as equals, you don't shut them out of your golf club. You can have a Men's only day (or three) and a Women's only day, most clubs do...

[bunter101]

Can someone expand on the tax exempt status and other benefits the club gets?

 

To me it's not about "discrimination" so to speak. But I do think it's a valid discussion to have about a social club that is getting benefits from the government but specifically excludes members of the community.

 

Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree but I'd just like someone with knowledge to explain that part of it to me

 

I'm not a UK tax lawyer, but I don't think Muirfield has any special tax status, as such. The revenue authorities in the UK (HMRC) do not regard any transactions between a member-owned club and its members as being in the nature of trade and as such no tax liability arises where, say, the members buy food and drink from the club bar. But this applies whether the club is Muirfield or the Castleford Ladies Magic Circle. (It's different if the club is a 'proprietory' club where the ownership of the club is different from the membership (for instance Gleneagles in Scotland or Wentworth in England) - in this case the club is regarded as a trading business and taxed accordingly.)

 

Where it gets a little more tricky is when the members-only club allows visitors to use its facilities. If you or I have £230 burning a hole in our pocket, and it's a Tuesday or Thursday, we can play Muirfield as a visitor, and have a meal and a drink in the clubhouse (provided we have a coat and tie). In this case the club will be providing services to us on a commercial basis and will be liable to tax on any surplus made. Of course, the issue for the Muirfields of this world is how large that surplus is, but that's why they employ clever accountants.

 

It might be worth adding that member-owned clubs in the UK will be taxed in the normal way on their other income, such as deposit interest or dividends.

 

I may be wrong here BUT I think the members have a way of paying where food and drink is part of the membership. Each member basically gets a envelope at the end of of the year with their 'membership fees'

A normal club member will pay their membership fees - not taxable, But the club pays tax on food and beverage sales. Visitor fees are not taxable anymore as they are seen as day memberships. (Lots of clubs got tax rebates this year)

[Whatsinthebag]

I've always felt that private clubs are just that. Private. You can't dictate who they have as members even though you disagree. If Muirfield is happy not being part of the Open rotation, so be it. There are consequences to your actions. Same as Augusta. They made a big deal about them not having women as members. I don't agree but it's their club and I'm ok with that. They don't want me either and that's ok. They don't want any of the PGA pros as well. It's their club and we don't have the right to tell them what to do.

[JaNelson38]

Muirfield is a private club that held a vote to allow women members. The members voted and it appears they have changed their mind. Why is that anyone else's business? Just like people decry political correctness, it seems to me there are plenty ready to take up the fight against it on behalf of others. They weren't forced. They voted.

 

But the only reason they voted and changed their minds is because the R&A basically forced them to. It's not like a vote on admitting women was on the docket until the R&A pulled The Open from them, and then turned a issue that should have been addressed privately amongst the R&A and Muirfield into a public relations circus because the R&A wanted to flex their muscles.

 

If the R&A doesn't want to have The Open at a club that doesnt adhere to what they want, that's fine...just take the club out of the rotation then. Don't make a spectacle of it by strong-arming a private club to change their rules in an effort to embarrass and shame them....because they have the audacity to build the membership of a club how they see fit.

 

This wasn't about The Open. It's not about golf. It was about trying to re-write the rules of a private club, because the R&A is on some sort of SJW power trip. That's the problem. It's the problem with the whole "equality" movement...its hypocritical on its face. Because the "equality" movement is stripping individual liberty and freedom from individuals to belong and associate in a private setting with whomever they choose.

[bogeypro]

Discrimination is a negative term. To have male only or women only clubs and organizations should not be considered discrimination....unless they are treating the other sex unjustly or unfairly. I look at organizations like the Masons, the Eastern Stars, countless women's business organizations, etc... I just don't understand the big deal with male clubs and organizations.

[nbg352]

Why is it always the threat of losing revenue that must act as the sword of Damocles? Is it the only way we can successfully be coerced into being politically correct?

What have we learned as a society if that is indeed the case?

Muirfield has learned a great deal about the economics of getting on the PC bandwagon. Women everywhere should rejoice at this solemn, sincere effort to make them feel both welcome and equal.........

[Fade]

What I find interesting for the somewhat unique case of golf, is that good (which I will loosely define as 'challenging yet pleasant') golf courses for men aren't identical to good golf courses for women. Not everything can be solved by the installation of numerous tee-boxes. Ideal positions of fairway bunkers, ponds, streams, doglegs are not identical.

[Forged4ever]

This is off topic however this is much much better news than anything in this thread and that is that Matthew Hanson won his first Professional Golf Tournamemt today!!!

 

He tied the course record with a 62 yesterday and took a four stroke lead into today's final round-

 

He lost his lead on the front nine and won the tournament on the back 9!!!

 

He's off to the Canadian PGA Q School-

 

If ya get a chance, drop into his thread(Conditional Web.com Member....) and give him and his Mother a shout out!!

 

He and his Mother Aggs(Agatha, LMAO!! God I love that UN, lmao. Trust me, she ain't an Agatha, lol) are the best, and she lived and died on every friggin shot, lol

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever My Friends ⛳️

Richard

[huskerguy18]

Seems to me like this would mean more if he wasn't perfectly fine when it comes to golfing in Dubai which treats women like s*** in general, instead of just not letting them be a member at their courses.

[Outlier]

If you want to talk about real discrimination, it is allowing so called transgenders transitioning to woman to use woman's bathrooms. That is discrimination against woman. The NCAA, ACC and other organizations moving their games and championships from North Carolina are discriminating against my daughter and other woman. They are also hypocrites. If it is OK for men (if you are born with a Johnson you are a male. Don't care what anyone says) to use woman restrooms, then why aren't these organizations allowing men to play in women's basketball. Why can't any man just walk into the women's locker room? That is the real hypocrisy. It isn't women not being allowed to join a PRIVATE men's club.

 

 

I live in Charlotte, note sure what this has to do with Golf but you said it yourself..."you don't care what anyone says". Our duly elected officials enacted an ordinance to prevent discrimination for example- a gay person has the right to employment, to be served at a restaurant, play at a public golf course etc.just the same as you or me without the fear of being fired, not being served or allowed to play simply because of their preference. In ADDITION to that the City ordinance also clarified that people may use the rest area they identify with. So yes accordingly the former Bruce now Caitlyn Jenner could pee in peace without some nut job deciding they want to inspect everybody's privates.

 

Given our form of government, the nut jobs from other parts of the State and our ex-Governor enacted overriding Statewide legislation that specifically makes if OK to to discriminate against people because of their orientation- i.e. "I found out you are gay, you are fired", "I don't rent to gay people", "Gay people can't play at this golf course".

 

I know you "don't care what anyone says"....but the fact is Caitlyn Jenner is not the only person similarly situated. The fact is "trans" people use public facilities all the time without incident, and often without notice. The ordinance sought to clarify in the event some nut-job decides they need to start checking peoples parts for authenticity. As always in the event an ill-intentioned person is in a restroom for nefarious reasons obviously that would be prosecuted as it is now. If somebody was intent on dressing as a woman solely for that purpose they do it now and are prosecuted.

 

My great Uncle remembers how the blacks would poison the swimming pool and the water fountains.....same thing.

[huskerguy18]

If you want to talk about real discrimination, it is allowing so called transgenders transitioning to woman to use woman's bathrooms. That is discrimination against woman. The NCAA, ACC and other organizations moving their games and championships from North Carolina are discriminating against my daughter and other woman. They are also hypocrites. If it is OK for men (if you are born with a Johnson you are a male. Don't care what anyone says) to use woman restrooms, then why aren't these organizations allowing men to play in women's basketball. Why can't any man just walk into the women's locker room? That is the real hypocrisy. It isn't women not being allowed to join a PRIVATE men's club.

 

 

I live in Charlotte, note sure what this has to do with Golf but you said it yourself..."you don't care what anyone says". Our duly elected officials enacted an ordinance to prevent discrimination for example- a gay person has the right to employment, to be served at a restaurant, play at a public golf course etc.just the same as you or me without the fear of being fired, not being served or allowed to play simply because of their preference. In ADDITION to that the City ordinance also clarified that people may use the rest area they identify with. So yes accordingly the former Bruce now Caitlyn Jenner could pee in peace without some nut job deciding they want to inspect everybody's privates.

 

Given our form of government, the nut jobs from other parts of the State and our ex-Governor enacted overriding Statewide legislation that specifically makes if OK to to discriminate against people because of their orientation- i.e. "I found out you are gay, you are fired", "I don't rent to gay people", "Gay people can't play at this golf course".

 

I know you "don't care what anyone says"....but the fact is Caitlyn Jenner is not the only person similarly situated. The fact is "trans" people use public facilities all the time without incident, and often without notice. The ordinance sought to clarify in the event some nut-job decides they need to start checking peoples parts for authenticity. As always in the event an ill-intentioned person is in a restroom for nefarious reasons obviously that would be prosecuted as it is now. If somebody was intent on dressing as a woman solely for that purpose they do it now and are prosecuted.

 

My great Uncle remembers how the blacks would poison the swimming pool and the water fountains.....same thing.

 

"Often without notice" (sorry still new here) this is what gets me. Even if these laws are passed and not struck down by the courts, so what? Is there some plan in place to have a guard stand outside every restroom checking people's ID and birth certificate before they can use the restroom? Even if I was ok with the law, which I'm not, it's unenforceable feel good bullxxxx.

[Forged4ever]

If you want to talk about real discrimination, it is allowing so called transgenders transitioning to woman to use woman's bathrooms. That is discrimination against woman. The NCAA, ACC and other organizations moving their games and championships from North Carolina are discriminating against my daughter and other woman. They are also hypocrites. If it is OK for men (if you are born with a Johnson you are a male. Don't care what anyone says) to use woman restrooms, then why aren't these organizations allowing men to play in women's basketball. Why can't any man just walk into the women's locker room? That is the real hypocrisy. It isn't women not being allowed to join a PRIVATE men's club.

 

 

I live in Charlotte, note sure what this has to do with Golf but you said it yourself..."you don't care what anyone says". Our duly elected officials enacted an ordinance to prevent discrimination for example- a gay person has the right to employment, to be served at a restaurant, play at a public golf course etc.just the same as you or me without the fear of being fired, not being served or allowed to play simply because of their preference. In ADDITION to that the City ordinance also clarified that people may use the rest area they identify with. So yes accordingly the former Bruce now Caitlyn Jenner could pee in peace without some nut job deciding they want to inspect everybody's privates.

 

Given our form of government, the nut jobs from other parts of the State and our ex-Governor enacted overriding Statewide legislation that specifically makes if OK to to discriminate against people because of their orientation- i.e. "I found out you are gay, you are fired", "I don't rent to gay people", "Gay people can't play at this golf course".

 

I know you "don't care what anyone says"....but the fact is Caitlyn Jenner is not the only person similarly situated. The fact is "trans" people use public facilities all the time without incident, and often without notice. The ordinance sought to clarify in the event some nut-job decides they need to start checking peoples parts for authenticity. As always in the event an ill-intentioned person is in a restroom for nefarious reasons obviously that would be prosecuted as it is now. If somebody was intent on dressing as a woman solely for that purpose they do it now and are prosecuted.

 

My great Uncle remembers how the blacks would poison the swimming pool and the water fountains.....same thing.

HH let it lay and I'm asking you to do the same please-

 

A golf board is not the place for this discussion-

 

Thanks much,

RP

[bscinstnct]

Women always win.

 

Because without them we will walk around in rags and then starve and die.

 

Its not 1740 anymore so why even bother fighting when they all know they never lose?