Rory Calls Muirfield Decision "Obscene...."

[ChillyDipper]

I think this thread has run its course. Rory good, Rory bad. Muirfield good, Muirfield bad. My rights, your rights. We're never gonna agree.

[MtlJeff]

Women always win.

 

Because without them we will walk around in rags and then starve and die.

 

Its not 1740 anymore so why even bother fighting when they all know they never lose?

 

If this was 1740 the English king would just declare Prima Nocta and this whole thing would be over and done with

 

King: Prima Nocta guys, that oughta fetch us the type of golf members we want

Guy: Excellent idea my lord!

King: Is it????

 

3 hours later, everyone happy

[Forged4ever]

Women always win.

 

Because without them we will walk around in rags and then starve and die.

 

Its not 1740 anymore so why even bother fighting when they all know they never lose?

This is so true!

 

I thought that I "won" a discussion that Madison and I had this afternoon and she even said "whatever you say" which she never says however she suddenly was too tired after her palates class so the amazing pasta dinner that she was going to bring me turned into the hospital assembly line mac & cheese with horrible broccoli...

 

She won ;)

 

And I'm an idiot and never learn ?

 

My Best,

RP

[bladehunter]

Why is it always the threat of losing revenue that must act as the sword of Damocles? Is it the only way we can successfully be coerced into being politically correct?

What have we learned as a society if that is indeed the case?

Muirfield has learned a great deal about the economics of getting on the PC bandwagon. Women everywhere should rejoice at this solemn, sincere effort to make them feel both welcome and equal.........

 

 

the Irony is that it isnt women who are behind this.... it is the "non profit" fear-mongoring organizations that shout "discrimination" every hour on the hour... The real deeper Irony is that i do not belve one second that there would be any lost revenue if the popular vote were used as a deciding factor in these things.. as in its one "minority" faction bullying some corporate sponsors via social media etc , who then cave and tell the host organization " get them to let women in or we will pull our money " ...as they say shat rolls downhill so the R and A then pulls them from the Rota until they comply... all the while the people at large do not , and would not give two craps about it ....

 

why society lets these bully organizations run the dialogue for what is right and wrong is beyond me.... their hypocrisy is so foul its stench reaches from one end of the world to the other...some are of good intention , but many are long past due for a shut down

[JoeyJoeyJoeJoe]

During his Presser yesterday, Rory gave his opinion on the Members' vote for the admission of Ladies as full members at Muirfield. The Tour let it be known that if Ladies were not given full membership privileges, Muirfield would be dropped from the Open Championship rotation.

 

http://www.golfchannel.com/media/mcilroy-muirfields-male-only-policy-was-obscence/?cid=Email_ThursdayNL_20170316

 

I dssagree-

 

One, This has absolutely nothing to do with a Female/Lady being "worthy," competent enough or deserving of full membership, as Rory and others try to position this issue by his stating all of the female Leaders in the business world-

 

This is not even on the table as THE two most competent Individuls, and they are Super Stars, not Stars, that I have ever worked with, and one I am fortunate enough to be working with one presently, are females.

 

Simply put, from my perspective and experience, a Woman knows better than a man when to bury her ego for the good of the group, engagement or the greater good.

 

They have teeth, can get edgy when appropriate and know how and more importantly when to use those teeth and edges, better than most men that I've ever met, including and especially Male Super Stars.

 

For me it is about having a place that a bunch of guys want to go and be around other guys-

 

There are Women only Clubs and organizations and this is their right to have these just as I see it as a Guy's right to have a "Male Only" Club if they so choose.

 

There is a caveat here-

 

While I agree with Men Only Clubs, I do not agree with and would not tolerate business being conducted in these clubs.

 

Now I understand that just because one does not bring a brief case, cell phone or discuss business matters in the Men's Card Room or whatever the 19th hole is called or anywhere else on the club grounds for that matter, that just the fact that I am able to invite a potential client to my club while a female competition does not have this option(they actually do at every Top-Tier Club in town) is a potential advantage that a female may not have, however I do not discuss business at the club and I and the other leaders in our club also do not tolerate someone breaking this rule.

 

I just don't agree with framing the issue as "if one is not permitted to apply and enjoy full membership privileges then they are looked at as inferior."

 

For me and most of the guys that I know who agree with me, this never ever comes in to Play-

 

We just think that is a guy wants to go to a place where there are only other guys, or a women wants to go to a club or organization that is female only, that's ok-

 

#2, I have never ever responddd well to threats or "do this or......," LMAO

 

When this ocurs, simply put, I become a dick :)

 

Please do me one favor guys-

 

You're welcome to state your thoughts and opinions on either this issue or on Rory's comments, however PLEASE keep your comments on the issue(s) and do not try to be witty, a silver knight or dick and attack another member personally because I will shut this thread down quicker than a female vote at Muirfiels if we cannot act as decent adult males :)

 

Thanks much for dropping in?

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever My Friends,

RP

 

 

Bang on assessment.

 

Just imagine if it was reversed? Threatening a women's only group from having a Women's Open because Men are not allowed at their club.. There would be a zillion marches and candle light vigils within a week.

[SeaOfGreen10]

Muirfield is a private club that held a vote to allow women members. The members voted and it appears they have changed their mind. Why is that anyone else's business? Just like people decry political correctness, it seems to me there are plenty ready to take up the fight against it on behalf of others. They weren't forced. They voted.

 

But the only reason they voted and changed their minds is because the R&A basically forced them to. It's not like a vote on admitting women was on the docket until the R&A pulled The Open from them, and then turned a issue that should have been addressed privately amongst the R&A and Muirfield into a public relations circus because the R&A wanted to flex their muscles.

 

If the R&A doesn't want to have The Open at a club that doesnt adhere to what they want, that's fine...just take the club out of the rotation then. Don't make a spectacle of it by strong-arming a private club to change their rules in an effort to embarrass and shame them....because they have the audacity to build the membership of a club how they see fit.

 

This wasn't about The Open. It's not about golf. It was about trying to re-write the rules of a private club, because the R&A is on some sort of SJW power trip. That's the problem. It's the problem with the whole "equality" movement...its hypocritical on its face. Because the "equality" movement is stripping individual liberty and freedom from individuals to belong and associate in a private setting with whomever they choose.

 

The R&A is a private organization. Your suggestion that they not "make a spectacle of it by strong-arming a private club to change their rules in an effort to embarrass and shame them" is you publicly telling a private organization what to do. What you are suggesting, that the R&A remove Muirfield from the open rota in a more friendly(?) and nicer(?) manner is quite literally THE DEFINITION of political correctness.

 

Please stop stripping away the individual liberties and freedoms of those that make up the R&A. And let's be clear here - Muirfield has a right to be a males-only club. Hosting an Open is most certainly NOT a right - that is patently absurd.

[bladehunter]

Women always win.

 

Because without them we will walk around in rags and then starve and die.

 

Its not 1740 anymore so why even bother fighting when they all know they never lose?

 

 

speak for yourself man ...im the best cook in my house.. my wife hasnt made a meal in years.. ( true story) ... if i dont do anyting else ..ill eat !

[Hawkeye77]

Women always win.

 

Because without them we will walk around in rags and then starve and die.

 

Its not 1740 anymore so why even bother fighting when they all know they never lose?

 

 

speak for yourself man ...im the best cook in my house.. my wife hasnt made a meal in years.. ( true story) ... if i dont do anyting else ..ill eat !

 

And quit talking about rags.

[Forged4ever]

Women always win.

 

Because without them we will walk around in rags and then starve and die.

 

Its not 1740 anymore so why even bother fighting when they all know they never lose?

 

 

speak for yourself man ...im the best cook in my house.. my wife hasnt made a meal in years.. ( true story) ... if i dont do anyting else ..ill eat !

LMAO, Bro, my last time home I fried the friggin microwave cuz I didn't realize that the spangles on one of Ava's dishes were metal-

 

Let's see.....

 

I'm an idiot, I'm half blind, I'm impotent & I can't cook for ****

 

LMAO, yeeeeeaaaa baby, I'm a catch, but hey, I gotta decent personality?

 

All the Best?

RP

[bladehunter]

Women always win.

 

Because without them we will walk around in rags and then starve and die.

 

Its not 1740 anymore so why even bother fighting when they all know they never lose?

 

If this was 1740 the English king would just declare Prima Nocta and this whole thing would be over and done with

 

King: Prima Nocta guys, that oughta fetch us the type of golf members we want

Guy: Excellent idea my lord!

King: Is it????

 

3 hours later, everyone happy

 

 

Just get Robin Hood prince of Thieves on the old Netflix in the great white north there ? Lol.

[ebrasmus21]

I'm a big Rory fan so I was disappointed to see he got caught up in this. He went a little off the deep-end with this one

[bscinstnct]

Women always win.

 

Because without them we will walk around in rags and then starve and die.

 

Its not 1740 anymore so why even bother fighting when they all know they never lose?

 

 

speak for yourself man ...im the best cook in my house.. my wife hasnt made a meal in years.. ( true story) ... if i dont do anyting else ..ill eat !

 

And quit talking about rags.

 

I guess I dressed ok as a bachelor. But that was back in the day when you wore a suit everyday. No brainer. Casual day, I looked like a clown or a security guard.

 

And food, when I was a bachelor, I tried to make chicken breast and didnt know you have to put on oil and seasoning. Tasted like cardboard.

 

Pretty sure muirfield guys had a whole year of bad chicken and uncoordinated outfits after the first vote and just caved in.

 

 

 

 

[mukster]

I have no time for clubs that are exclusionary. The club I am currently trying to join is refusing me membership based on the fact that I am one of the unfortunate who cannot come up with the initiation fee.

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

1. Muirfield is a private club...and if they choose to have a policy of "men only" then as they are private they should have that right.
   
2. The R&A is the European equivalent of the USGA. As they are the current ruling body of golf over there, and they are the ones who sponsor and run the Open Championship, then it is their right to elect to not play the contest on a course with rules and policies that they do not agree with and cannot support.
   

They are having the same issue with the next summer Olympics in Japan. The course they elected to use for golf does not allow female full time membership...and the Olympic Committee will have to either tolerate that...or find another venue in Japan.

 

This is the best summary of the situation, I think.

A key point that seems to have been overlooked by many is that the government had no involvement in this whatsoever. The R&A decides to promote inclusiveness (for want of a better word), and removes Murifield from the Open rota. Muirfield eventually decides that they'd like the money--probably also prestige--from being an Open venue, so they open their doors. TADA!

It does not mean that all-male clubs are suddenly now illegal. This was a matter between two private organizations. The R&A only held the upper hand in the negotiations when the HCoEG decided that being an Open venue was more important than it's policy of all-male membership.

 

Yes, I think the decision was made for financial reasons.

No, I don't think all-male clubs are necessarily a bad thing.

But principles aren't really principles if you can't stick to them in the face of adversity.

 

Finally....

 

...#2, I have never ever responddd well to threats or "do this or......," LMAO

 

When this ocurs, simply put, I become a dick :)

 

Please do me one favor guys-

 

You're welcome to state your thoughts and opinions on either this issue or on Rory's comments, however PLEASE keep your comments on the issue(s) and do not try to be witty, a silver knight or dick and attack another member personally because I will shut this thread down quicker than a female vote at Muirfiels if we cannot act as decent adult males :)

 

Thanks much for dropping in?

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever My Friends,

RP

 

Is this a subtle test?

 

Just messing with you, Richard :taunt:

[farmer]

As I recall, it was the younger members who forced the issue, and the first vote was very close. It may be that the club needs the money, and the area benefits greatly from having the Open. If Muirfield wanted to remain male only, was willing to accept the penalties, then rock on. The members voted to allow women, they will benefit from being on the Open rota, there's the trade off. The tiny little club where I'm a member is the most inclusive institution anywhere. We would embrace the Conehead family, gay couples, single women, Martians, as long as they pay their dues.

[Hawkeye77]

Women always win.

 

Because without them we will walk around in rags and then starve and die.

 

Its not 1740 anymore so why even bother fighting when they all know they never lose?

 

 

speak for yourself man ...im the best cook in my house.. my wife hasnt made a meal in years.. ( true story) ... if i dont do anyting else ..ill eat !

 

And quit talking about rags.

 

I guess I dressed ok as a bachelor. But that was back in the day when you wore a suit everyday. No brainer. Casual day, I looked like a clown or a security guard.

 

And food, when I was a bachelor, I tried to make chicken breast and didnt know you have to put on oil and seasoning. Tasted like cardboard.

 

Pretty sure muirfield guys had a whole year of bad chicken and uncoordinated outfits after the first vote and just caved in.

 

LOL, probably just as well my comment went flying overhead! ;-)

[Matt J]

It's in interesting situation IMO. I'm very much in the same camp as Rory. Just doesn't make sense to me. I can't imagine excluding women from a place of recreation. It's just a golf course. But, I don't think people who want to have a male only institution should be judged. If that's what they want, then they should be able to have it. I can understand why the R&A says, fine, but no Open, too.

 

I can't process what my wife would say if I told her I wanted to join an all-male golf club. If the price was right, she'd probably be fine with it. Actually she'd give me a load of $hit and laugh at me, and then be fine with it. I'm guessing, assuming, maybe incorrectly that the kind of guys that join Muirfield aren't worried about money. It's 230 quid a round. Anyways, we could have the same debate about Augusta, and I guess we did every spring until they brought in the token women members.

 

I've never visited one, might be nice. I wonder if it started so you could curse, piss in the open, and dick around without feeling offensive to women? Generally my experience is that all male company gets to be a bit too much over 8 or 10 guys, too much testosterone. Maybe golf is just effeminate enough to balance it out.

[RSinSG]

Rory is a truly gifted golfer- world class. But, he's young, and like many young people he often says things without the benefit of life experience and sometimes the words he uses and things he says are not well thought out. Hopefully he learns from these experiences.

[Tasals]

It's 2017. Discrimination of any form has no place in a modern civilised society. I find it odd that any group of supposedly educated people would want to exclude another group purely based on the happenstance of gender, race or sexual preference.

 

I am happy that pro golfers like Rory aren't afraid to voice opinions unequivocally. I hope he will be a fantastic embassy's or for the modernisation of the game, and I am also pleased with my ex bosses stance at the R&A (Martin Slumbers) for pushing for change.

 

There are women only golf clubs in my area. Men are not allowed to be members but can play with a female member at the course. Its never really bothered me. I dont particularly care one way or another, but I feel that if you want to be a mens only club thats fair. But its also fair for the R&A to say we dont want to play there anymore, their goal is to grow the game and protect it, if the goal becomes different than the views of the club im more than fine for them to take away the tournament.

 

I hate the argument that R&A punished the members at the club by pulling the tournament. I dont see it mainly as a punishment, just the R&A standing their ground and saying your current ideals dont match up with ours. That said if the members felt so strongly that they reversed the decision because they liked the prestige of hosting the tournament more than not having women members its fine.

[Mcgeeno]

It's 2017 not 1848.

 

Any of the descrimination crap should be over and done with.

 

Power to Rory. He's 100 percent correct.

 

I hope he keeps speaking his mind and ruffling all these old guys feathers.

[stage1350]

Women always win.

 

Because without them we will walk around in rags and then starve and die.

 

Its not 1740 anymore so why even bother fighting when they all know they never lose?

 

If this was 1740 the English king would just declare Prima Nocta and this whole thing would be over and done with

 

King: Prima Nocta guys, that oughta fetch us the type of golf members we want

Guy: Excellent idea my lord!

King: Is it????

 

3 hours later, everyone happy

 

It is my noble right...

[Bingo1976]

Rory is a truly gifted golfer- world class. But, he's young, and like many young people he often says things without the benefit of life experience and sometimes the words he uses and things he says are not well thought out. Hopefully he learns from these experiences.

 

Can you only be a mysoginist with experience?

 

I've always found exclusives clubs a bit odd - large groups of women are almost always a recipe for disaster, and I can only imagine that a club full of men would be cliquey and depressing in equal measures.

[Short Pete]

I have Zero problems with private clubs that won't invite potential members because of their gender. They have the right to do that, as I have the right to choose not to join such clubs. Playing golf on a private course is not a human right! Do I like it when a private club acts that way, or do I think this is a contemporary behaviour? NO! But hey, Muirfield is private men's club since the middle age, there are many of those one-gender-only clubs all over the world. In my hometown there are two fitness clubs exclusively for women. So what! Did any woman feel bad because she could't get into that grumpy old Muirfield men's club that treats women like inferior human beings? I don't think so!

 

The R&A's decision to strip them off the Open rota was 100% correct. Muirfield's decision to renew their ballot to get back in is ridiculous. That's not a decision FOR gender equality, that's a decision AGAINST losing financial and reputational privileges. I guess their Male Only policy was there before the Open, seems they don't have the guts to stay with their principles when the big money is at stake. That leaves a bad taste in my mouth, this club doesn't welcome the ladies because they feel that way, they only do it because R&A stripped them off their privilege. If I were a woman I would never bother to set a foot on this course, because I'd have the feeling to be tolerated but not welcome.

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

I have Zero problems with private clubs that won't invite potential members because of their gender. They have the right to do that, as I have the right to choose not to join such clubs. Playing golf on a private course is not a human right! Do I like it when a private club acts that way, or do I think this is a contemporary behaviour? NO! But hey, Muirfield is private men's club since the middle age, there are many of those one-gender-only clubs all over the world. In my hometown there are two fitness clubs exclusively for women. So what! Did any woman feel bad because she could't get into that grumpy old Muirfield men's club that treats women like inferior human beings? I don't think so!

 

The R&A's decision to strip them off the Open rota was 100% correct. Muirfield's decision to renew their ballot to get back in is ridiculous. That's not a decision FOR gender equality, that's a decision AGAINST losing financial and reputational privileges. I guess their Male Only policy was there before the Open, seems they don't have the guts to stay with their principles when the big money is at stake. That leaves a bad taste in my mouth, this club doesn't welcome the ladies because they feel that way, they only do it because R&A stripped them off their privilege. If I were a woman I would never bother to set a foot on this course, because I'd have the feeling to be tolerated but not welcome.

 

That's a good way of looking at. That said, there quite a few members who voted to let women in simply because they felt it was the right thing to do separate from financial reasons (or prestige). I didn't address that in my earlier post, but looking back I think I was unfair to simply say that all the members voted this way because they didn't want to lose money or prestige. In fact, I would applaud members who still voted against the new measure in the face of the R&A's threat more than the ones who changed their minds simply because of it.

[playa]

Women always win.

 

Because without them we will walk around in rags and then starve and die.

 

Its not 1740 anymore so why even bother fighting when they all know they never lose?

 

 

speak for yourself man ...im the best cook in my house.. my wife hasnt made a meal in years.. ( true story) ... if i dont do anyting else ..ill eat !

Same in my house. If I don't cook, we don't eat.

[playa]

One thing I've never umderstood about this argument is why women would want to be members of a club where they clearly are not welcome? Why would they choose to surround themselves with sexist male members who resent their presence when there are plenty of other clubs where they are warmly welcomed as equals? Why waste energy on a negative campaign trying to force your beliefs on others who don't share them, resulting in an outcome where nobody really wins? I am all for equality as a general rule of a progressive society, but I also believe men and women have the right to exclusivity in a private environment if they choose to do so. I certainly have no desire to force myself upon a womens only gym just to teach them a lesson on gender equality. Cuts both ways.

[hogans71]

To me, men and women often need a refuge from each other. Private, gender only clubs would normally fit the bill here. But, while I believe women can successfully have private gender only clubs without attracting the ire of the opposite and excluded sex, that is because I believe women form women's only clubs for exactly the reason I stated above. As refuge, a place to be among their own gender. It's not about equality or lack therein. It is about being able to take a break when needed.

Offer gender only clubs to men, however and I believe it does come down to equality, exclusion, power, all the things men are known for when left to their own devices.

As such, I don't think that Men's Only clubs can work on a wide scale. If the barn doors are opened too wide then the jackass gets out with the rest of the horses and it is that jackass that will form an exclusive men's only club for all the wrong reasons. Can the same thing occur in private women's clubs? Absolutely. The difference is, there aren't as many jackasses in the barn.......

 

At my house that refuge is the basement!

Yep.

Sometimes it's a "forced" refuge though, isn't it......

My refuge is in my mind. It's the only safe place left!

 

Careful T, I believe the gov't is working on that...

[heavy_hitter]

One thing I've never umderstood about this argument is why women would want to be members of a club where they clearly are not welcome? Why would they choose to surround themselves with sexist male members who resent their presence when there are plenty of other clubs where they are warmly welcomed as equals? Why waste energy on a negative campaign trying to force your beliefs on others who don't share them, resulting in an outcome where nobody really wins? I am all for equality as a general rule of a progressive society, but I also believe men and women have the right to exclusivity in a private environment if they choose to do so. I certainly have no desire to force myself upon a womens only gym just to teach them a lesson on gender equality. Cuts both ways.

 

If you are going to call All Male Golf club members Sexist, you need to call All Female Gym members Sexist as well. Have to be equal. Better yet, how about just stop the name calling because this issue has nothing to do with gender equality.

[reqq]

In a free world you should be able to do what you want but you should concern yourself what behavior you promote. Having a mens only golf club makes no sense and doesnt promote a good behavior but having a private party at home only for your buddies sometimes, ye why not.

[jayman2982]

Not everything needs to be all inclusive. The fact that some have stated that anyone who disagrees with Rory is either, sexist, racist, (as if male/female is a race), misogynist etc is ridiculous. I have to be a bigot to disagree. Just dumb. I have trained women in women only gyms, should they be shut down because its sexist not to have men. Now I do get that its never been tough to be a "white male" in society unless you count the Irish when we first got to America, or Italians straight off the boat, or really any immigrant, but there comes a point when when we as a society must admit its nice to be around people who enjoy the same things as you.

 

If saying women aren't allowed is sexist, you have to say that women only clubs are sexist too. What about ladies night at the bar? Sexist as well? I as 20 something white male understand they're are some places that women just don't want men. I get it, doesn't bother me. The same way I'm not allowed into certain orders because I'm not welcome. We all don't have to be allowed to be in the same clubs to be equal as humans!!! As long as we still all have the same societal rights outside of the gyms, golf courses, salons, clubs etc who cares what happens behind those doors that we're not allowed in. When my girl has her girls night with her friends, I efff off. I change the dynamic of the group just by being a male. And if you think old white dudes are crude and vulgar when it comes to "judging women" you should hear the things young ladies talk about these days. The amount of p**** stories I have over heard while making a sandwich is hilarious. Women are just as judging as men are. At the end of the day we are all the same and would like to be around people we feel comfortable with.