ANA rules issue (Merged)

[CCTxGolf]

Gunmetal I watched Mickelsons take on it. He says that he knows of players that do it and that the tours need to do something about it. Not that everyone does it. He also said some do it multiple inches. He did not defend them or in anyway indicate that it's is ok or legal.

[Lodestone]

two strokes for mis-marking the ball, in that instance, is chicken-sh!t. She's coming at it sideways to avoid stomping the line, and she's trying to keep pace of play going by continuing her play (admittedly, I don't see why they all have to mark a 12" putt, but then, I'm not playing for that kind of money)...

 

As bad as it is to assess her the 2 strokes for the marking, how in the world they justify another 2 for an incorrect scorecard is beyond beyond me. It wasn't incorrect when she signed it. How can anyone be secure they are signing a correct scorecard if someone can review a tape and decide later that a penalty should be assessed?

 

In a sport full of bad rulings, this one takes the cake.

[Lodestone]

Gunmetal I watched Mickelsons take on it. He says that he knows of players that do it and that the tours need to do something about it. Not that everyone does it. He also said some do it multiple inches. He did not defend them or in anyway indicate that it's is ok or legal.

 

I remember reading a Tom Watson quote where he said he never looked at his line when marking his ball because he did not want to even be tempted to adjust the spot, even slightly, by what may be in it.

[Lodestone]

Don't you know that the LPGA is pissed about what Phil said. They're totally scrambling about now with hair on fire...

 

 

Rory just addressed the issue as well. More or less said the incorrect scorecard penalty was excessive and that 99% of the golf fraternity was behind Lexi.

 

He also stated that golfers don't get the ball back in the exact spot they lifted it from.

 

Went on to say that viewers calling in needs to be addressed.

 

 

 

so what say ye perfect markers? why are top pros coming out and saying balls arent exactly placed ? yet many here claim to be able to everytime ?

 

Come on blade, you know it's easier for those perfect few to call the rest cheaters.

When did anybody say that they mark ball perfectly/exactly every time. Nobody did. The fact is that people miss mark balls intentionally. She got caught. If she put the ball back remotely where it was originally this would not have happened and she would probably be the LPGA's most recent major champion. Nobody ever said exact. Close works but this wasn't even close. It's not about accidentally marking a ball wrong because your hands are to big, one legs shorter than the other, or your sisters also your mother. Y'all seem to be the only two people in this forum that are missing the point completely.

 

How much would you say she missed the correct spot by?

[whr]

Don't you know that the LPGA is pissed about what Phil said. They're totally scrambling about now with hair on fire...

 

 

Rory just addressed the issue as well. More or less said the incorrect scorecard penalty was excessive and that 99% of the golf fraternity was behind Lexi.

 

He also stated that golfers don't get the ball back in the exact spot they lifted it from.

 

Went on to say that viewers calling in needs to be addressed.

 

 

 

so what say ye perfect markers? why are top pros coming out and saying balls arent exactly placed ? yet many here claim to be able to everytime ?

 

Come on blade, you know it's easier for those perfect few to call the rest cheaters.

When did anybody say that they mark ball perfectly/exactly every time. Nobody did. The fact is that people miss mark balls intentionally. She got caught. If she put the ball back remotely where it was originally this would not have happened and she would probably be the LPGA's most recent major champion. Nobody ever said exact. Close works but this wasn't even close. It's not about accidentally marking a ball wrong because your hands are to big, one legs shorter than the other, or your sisters also your mother. Y'all seem to be the only two people in this forum that are missing the point completely.

 

Where's your proof it was intentional?

 

Stop being so dramatic......

 

[dpb5031]

two strokes for mis-marking the ball, in that instance, is chicken-sh!t. She's coming at it sideways to avoid stomping the line, and she's trying to keep pace of play going by continuing her play (admittedly, I don't see why they all have to mark a 12" putt, but then, I'm not playing for that kind of money)...

 

As bad as it is to assess her the 2 strokes for the marking, how in the world they justify another 2 for an incorrect scorecard is beyond beyond me. It wasn't incorrect when she signed it. How can anyone be secure they are signing a correct scorecard if someone can review a tape and decide later that a penalty should be assessed?

 

In a sport full of bad rulings, this one takes the cake.

 

Lodestone, how dare you come all up in here making that kinda sense? Lol...?

[4waymiss]

So now we have Phil saying the trophy should be given to Lexi and that it's known golfers do this, you have Rory saying the penalty was excessive, and even the LPGAs own commissioner now saying the punishment doesn't fit the crime.

 

I have not heard that the LPGA commissioner is now saying the punishment doesn't fit the crime. Good! So, what is the LPGA commissioner going to do to correct it?

 

Even the IRS, who considers everyone guilty until proven innocent, allows people to file an amended return. The LPGA should allow Lexi the opportunity, now that she has been informed about their intent to file a rules violation, to amend her return (scorecard) and not incur the 2 stroke penalty for signing an incorrect scorecard.

 

And with that Lexi should be given the trophy and 1st place money... The LPGA blew it BIG TIME!!! The LPGA Rules Committee should be relieved of their jobs.

 

 

At that point Lexi was 2 shots ahead with 6 holes to go, with a bunch of big names chasing. What make you so sure Lexi would have held on for the win?

 

I mean you cannot just minus 4 strokes from her final score and say that's her "would be" score.

[CCTxGolf]

Lodestone I would say she missed it by enough for us to be having this conversation. We all know what reasonable looks like. We all know what it looks like when someone is trying to gain an advantage. It looks like that video of Lexi remarking that ball. If it did not we would not be having this conversation. I'll concede that only Lexi knows if she was really trying to gain an advantage. But it obviously looks like she was or this would be a non issue

[CCTxGolf]

Come on whr! Dramatic?? What about the heat and the kitchen buddy?!? You know there is no proof that it was intentional. There is no proof needed. It's a rule and she got caught braking it and paid the price. She is the only one that knows if it was intentional. It is only my opinion that she did it intentionally. I think she knows how to mark a ball properly and she chose to mark it for her advantage. Just like Phil said multiple pros do.

[bladehunter]

Don't you know that the LPGA is pissed about what Phil said. They're totally scrambling about now with hair on fire...

 

 

Rory just addressed the issue as well. More or less said the incorrect scorecard penalty was excessive and that 99% of the golf fraternity was behind Lexi.

 

He also stated that golfers don't get the ball back in the exact spot they lifted it from.

 

Went on to say that viewers calling in needs to be addressed.

 

 

 

so what say ye perfect markers? why are top pros coming out and saying balls arent exactly placed ? yet many here claim to be able to everytime ?

 

Come on blade, you know it's easier for those perfect few to call the rest cheaters.

When did anybody say that they mark ball perfectly/exactly every time. Nobody did. The fact is that people miss mark balls intentionally. She got caught. If she put the ball back remotely where it was originally this would not have happened and she would probably be the LPGA's most recent major champion. Nobody ever said exact. Close works but this wasn't even close. It's not about accidentally marking a ball wrong because your hands are to big, one legs shorter than the other, or your sisters also your mother. Y'all seem to be the only two people in this forum that are missing the point completely.

 

 

So you are cheating too ? How now brown cow ! Lol

 

Now of course I'm playing devils advocate. I'm not actually callin you a cheater. But buy the rules anyone not placing it back by a measure of inaccuracy smaller than Can be detected by the naked eye is in fact a cheater. So most of us are. But in fact none of us really are. At least not wit the spirit of fair play.

[CCTxGolf]

Blade, I am picking up what your putting down but in this case it was clear that she did not even try to put the ball where it is supposed to go. I know what your going to say. How do I know she didn't try? I don't know but it sure looks WAY off.

 

I am going to agree to disagree about her intent. The whole point is that the penalty was stupid and it should have never gone down like this after the fact or by being called in by some yahoo from home. If she would have been called on it right then and there I don't think there would be any question that she deserved the penalty.

 

Anywho, I'm gonna bow out of this conversation and focus on the the celebration that is The Masters! Have a good week

[SHIVAN]

I'm going to be on the lookout for players who keep marking and remarking their ball, and turning a 10 footer in to a six incher.

 

Which is the funny part, she still had 2', even though it might have been 3/8" to the left of the original spot. :drinks:

 

The point is it was enough to change her line.

 

In non-zoomed, that is debatable, and way less than clear to me.

 

Once you are shown the zoomed version, you can't un-ring the bell -- and THAT is my point. I watched and re-watched the non-zoomed, and knew to be looking for a "move". I wouldn't have picked up on it had I been standing there, almost for certain would have just attributed it to a shadow effect or whatever.

[sls7474]

My guess is no one on this forum has had HD camera video them marking and replacing their ball throughout a round of golf to say if they are consistently better at it. I'm sure she thought she was in the same spot.

[Vindog]

BINGO!

 

Phil Mickelson just acknowledged on his Master's interview just now that a number of players on the PGA tour are 'loose' when replacing their golf ball - up to 2" - 3" away from where the ball was lifted.

 

There you have the confirmation that I have been stating in numerous posts...that hundreds of LPGA and PGA players in the course of a 4 day tournament do NOT replace their golf ball from where it was lifted.

 

And, what do you think Phil thinks the LPGA should do for Lexi? Phil thinks the ruling should be reversed and Lexi should be given the trophy!

 

That ain't happening and I'm sure that every tour pro out there just groaned that now they'll be under more scrutiny.

She was caught in violation. That other pros do this and don't get caught is irrelevant.

[sfiggins]

Using my mouse pointer to track the before and after positions I estimate that she moved the ball about 1/3 of the width of the ball or .56 inches.

[SHIVAN]

Using my mouse pointer to track the before and after positions I estimate that she moved the ball about 1/3 of the width of the ball or .56 inches.

 

The camera is handheld, but they have software where you could get it to nearly 100% accuracy. They just need to buy it, train on it, and then USE it.

[bscinstnct]

My guess is no one on this forum has had HD camera video them marking and replacing their ball throughout a round of golf to say if they are consistently better at it. I'm sure she thought she was in the same spot.

 

Ive been experimenting, you try too.

 

Put down a ball. Walk away. Walk back over to it, mark it, pick it up *one inch* and put it down.

 

Its actually easier to put it back in the same place than to move it half an inch.

 

But, it could happen, I suppose.

 

 

[chris975d]

Gunmetal I watched Mickelsons take on it. He says that he knows of players that do it and that the tours need to do something about it. Not that everyone does it. He also said some do it multiple inches. He did not defend them or in anyway indicate that it's is ok or legal.

 

If he knows of players that do it, it stands to reason that means he's seen them do it, no? If so, isn't he obligated to notify rules officials? If he hasn't notified them, doesn't he indirectly condone it?

 

Not to mention he said Lexi should be given the trophy, even after seeing what she did.

 

So...is Phil not saying he personally doesn't care one way or the other if players do this, given his take on Lexi and the fact that he "knows" of players that intentionally do this yet hasn't called them out on it?

[bullseye26]

Now that it's tax season, how many of you declared and paid your state sales tax on everything you bought on the Internet. Not aware of it, you say. Too bad, you broke the law anyway. Want to file an amended return, you say. No problem, the IRS will allow that. But not the LPGA.

(Note: I'm no tax expert, only trying to illustrate a point.)

[Strike Force]

Phil Mickelson thinks Lexi Thompson should be given ANA Inspiration trophy

 

Phil thinks Lexi was done wrong, but he lets loose on some of his PGA Tour colleagues who are too loose about marking their ball.

[MountainGoat]

So now we have Phil saying the trophy should be given to Lexi and that it's known golfers do this, you have Rory saying the penalty was excessive, and even the LPGAs own commissioner now saying the punishment doesn't fit the crime.

 

Yep, Phil and Jack pretty much confirmed the problem. The LPGA publicly executed Lexi for a minor infraction that's probably widespread. Should have been handled differently.

[Strike Force]

Jack Nicklaus said anything not caught before the round ends shouldn't be reviewable afterwards.

"That isn't necessarily what (the rule) is. But that's what I think," he said.

 

Reference: http://sports.yahoo....6127--golf.html

[Vindog]

Phil has an opinion like everyone else. He doesn't write the book though.

[xoted]

 

How much would you say she missed the correct spot by?

 

Enough someone noticed on TV, and when the committee reviewed it they deemed it a violation of the rules.

 

Any further and it would no longer be a question of intentionally cheating, but an obvious conclusion, and she would have been disqualified not penalized 2 strokes.

[Lodestone]

How much would you say she missed the correct spot by?

 

Enough someone noticed on TV, and when the committee reviewed it they deemed it a violation of the rules.

 

Any further and it would no longer be a question of intentionally cheating, but an obvious conclusion, and she would have been disqualified not penalized 2 strokes.

 

You've just completed the circular argument. It goes like this " The ruling is correct because someone noticed it so it must be enough to be correct", when what is being argued is whether or not the ruling was correct in the first place. Someone said "if she'd put it back 'remotely' where it should have been", and someone seems to have measured it somehow to be all of .56" off. Wow....BFD!....definitely worth 4 strokes and a Major after 4 days of slugging it out?

 

Not hardly.

[farmer]

two strokes for mis-marking the ball, in that instance, is chicken-sh!t. She's coming at it sideways to avoid stomping the line, and she's trying to keep pace of play going by continuing her play (admittedly, I don't see why they all have to mark a 12" putt, but then, I'm not playing for that kind of money)...

 

As bad as it is to assess her the 2 strokes for the marking, how in the world they justify another 2 for an incorrect scorecard is beyond beyond me. It wasn't incorrect when she signed it. How can anyone be secure they are signing a correct scorecard if someone can review a tape and decide later that a penalty should be assessed?

 

In a sport full of bad rulings, this one takes the cake.

 

Lodestone, how dare you come all up in here making that kinda sense? Lol...��

Had Lexi gone through her normal putting routine, made the putt, no penalty, the meme would now be about how slow she played. "Marked a tap-in?!!! WTF, just knock it in!" To Shivan's earlier post, looking at this in real time, no slowmotion hd zoom, I also can't see anything while knowing there's something to see.

[Guest]

Would be interesting if this happened to a player that isnt a fan favorite and american. I think alot of people would have said " hey she didnt follow the rules, she deserved it".

[BlackDiamondPar5]

Phil has an opinion like everyone else. He doesn't write the book though.

And the book isn't infallible as some want to treat it as sacrament.

[Guest]

two strokes for mis-marking the ball, in that instance, is chicken-sh!t. She's coming at it sideways to avoid stomping the line, and she's trying to keep pace of play going by continuing her play (admittedly, I don't see why they all have to mark a 12" putt, but then, I'm not playing for that kind of money)...

 

As bad as it is to assess her the 2 strokes for the marking, how in the world they justify another 2 for an incorrect scorecard is beyond beyond me. It wasn't incorrect when she signed it. How can anyone be secure they are signing a correct scorecard if someone can review a tape and decide later that a penalty should be assessed?

 

In a sport full of bad rulings, this one takes the cake.

 

Lodestone, how dare you come all up in here making that kinda sense? Lol...��

Had Lexi gone through her normal putting routine, made the putt, no penalty, the meme would now be about how slow she played. "Marked a tap-in?!!! WTF, just knock it in!"

 

Looked like the ball was in a little pit/pitchmark if you look at the video closely. Think that was why she marked it and placed it where she did.

[youraway2]

It had to be a pattern. It's been mentioned in this discussion and I doubt a viewer just noticed it. I think they were looking for it and perhaps a player may have alerted them or a viewer to it. It all doesn't fit. If I was watching the tournament, and I was, I would have never picked up on what she was doing. I don't believe we have all the facts. What I do know is she noticed something and decided to mark her ball after beginning to tap in a very short putt. Then she marked and replaced in ball in a different position. She had to know what she did and why.

 

I like Phil's and Jack's comments, but I do not agree that she should receive the trophy. Another competitor won the Championship.