Golf Club Financing

[Aaronwilson_95]

Plain and simple this isn't even the best deal to finance your stocks . Whether your pro or anti finance they aren't even offering the best deal around .

[orangebang]

Lots of self righteous fiscally responsible people patting themselves on the back with humble brags on this thread.

 

For some people, financing anything other than a house and car doesn't make sense.

 

I personally know friends and family that think financing a house and/or a car don't even make sense, so THEY actually think anyone carrying a car payment or mortgage is financially irresponsible.

 

Crazy right? To each their own.

 

Making payments, leasing, etc makes sense for a lot of people. It turns out to be a fixed monthly expense, just like membership dues, gym fees, or any subscription service.

 

Overextending yourself is a different story, and a different argument altogether. But to dismiss financing for recreational/luxury items as ridiculous, is itself ridiculous.

[Pepperturbo]

Lots of self righteous fiscally responsible people patting themselves on the back with humble brags on this thread.

 

For some people, financing anything other than a house and car doesn't make sense.

 

I personally know friends and family that think financing a house and/or a car don't even make sense, so THEY actually think anyone carrying a car payment or mortgage is financially irresponsible.

 

Crazy right? To each their own.

 

Making payments, leasing, etc makes sense for a lot of people. It turns out to be a fixed monthly expense, just like membership dues, gym fees, or any subscription service.

 

Overextending yourself is a different story, and a different argument altogether. But to dismiss financing for recreational/luxury items as ridiculous, is itself ridiculous.

 

Our most recent real estate crash left millions of people upside down in homes they couldn't afford. It was lead by financial institutions granting loans to people with little-0 down payment. Those borrowers also didn't anticipate possible change in all economic conditions, which translates to poor judgment. They couldn't afford said loan if they lost their jobs or wanted to sell to get out from under the high mortgage payment.

 

Informed people generally buy real estate for tax deductions, when car loans and other forms of credit provide no deductions. Whether someone sees that or even appreciates that, has no bearing on real estate loan deductibility or how it off-sets income tax-liability.

 

There are two functions any reasonable person considered, fixed expense and variable expense. Fixed directly increases monthly costs, pressuring monthly pay checks. Variable expenses can be controlled and are a choice. Like the difference between joining a private club with fixed monthly dues of $600 as opposed to variable monthly expense of spending $600 at public courses. Private club dues are there whether a person plays golf or not, its like a mortgage (not rent as a person can move). Spending $600 a month at public courses is variable because costs can be adjusted downward if a person needs to cut back expenses, even opt not to play, saving that $600 per month.

 

I disagree with your overextended view. Nobody purposely overextends themselves. It sneaks up on them as a result of adding fixed costs, and not keeping track of OA fixed costs as opposed to income. It doesn't hit home either, till something negative happens, like losing a job or illness, etc.

 

Thinking something makes sense isn't a valid reasoning or an argument if proven fiscal judgment is the greater purpose. Plenty of people think they know which club to hit for the next shot. They factored all possible influences, yet they overlooked a few influential factors and dumped the ball in the drink or sent it OB. In other words, initial judgment was weak leading to being wrong.

 

But I agree with you. Every person has every right to own his decision, dumping the ball in the drink and living with the consequences. But trying to sell it as if it has merit, doesn't fly.

[pinestreetgolf]

Lots of self righteous fiscally responsible people patting themselves on the back with humble brags on this thread.

 

For some people, financing anything other than a house and car doesn't make sense.

 

I personally know friends and family that think financing a house and/or a car don't even make sense, so THEY actually think anyone carrying a car payment or mortgage is financially irresponsible.

 

Crazy right? To each their own.

 

Making payments, leasing, etc makes sense for a lot of people. It turns out to be a fixed monthly expense, just like membership dues, gym fees, or any subscription service.

 

Overextending yourself is a different story, and a different argument altogether. But to dismiss financing for recreational/luxury items as ridiculous, is itself ridiculous.

 

Our most recent real estate crash left millions of people upside down in homes they couldn't afford. It was lead by financial institutions granting loans to people with little-0 down payment. Those borrowers also didn't anticipate possible change in all economic conditions, which translates to poor judgment. They couldn't afford said loan if they lost their jobs or wanted to sell to get out from under the high mortgage payment.

 

Informed people generally buy real estate for tax deductions, when car loans and other forms of credit provide no deductions. Whether someone sees that or even appreciates that, has no bearing on real estate loan deductibility or how it off-sets income tax-liability.

 

There are two functions any reasonable person considered, fixed expense and variable expense. Fixed directly increases monthly costs, pressuring monthly pay checks. Variable expenses can be controlled and are a choice. Like the difference between joining a private club with fixed monthly dues of $600 as opposed to variable monthly expense of spending $600 at public courses. Private club dues are there whether a person plays golf or not, its like a mortgage (not rent as a person can move). Spending $600 a month at public courses is variable because costs can be adjusted downward if a person needs to cut back expenses, even opt not to play, saving that $600 per month.

 

I disagree with your overextended view. Nobody purposely overextends themselves. It sneaks up on them as a result of adding fixed costs, and not keeping track of OA fixed costs as opposed to income. It doesn't hit home either, till something negative happens, like losing a job or illness, etc.

 

Thinking something makes sense isn't a valid reasoning or an argument if proven fiscal judgment is the greater purpose. Plenty of people think they know which club to hit for the next shot. They factored all possible influences, yet they overlooked a few influential factors and dumped the ball in the drink or sent it OB. In other words, initial judgment was weak leading to being wrong.

 

But I agree with you. Every person has every right to own his decision, dumping the ball in the drink and living with the consequences. But trying to sell it as if it has merit, doesn't fly.

 

Your argument is like saying you should never eat a brownie, because physical fitness is important. In moderation, its fine. Just like financing. Your post reads as if someone must either have perfect credit and make no silly decision in the name of fun (the smart guy) or have awful credit and is completely and totally irresponsible (the dumb guy). There is an ocean of grey there, just like having a brownie once in a while doesn't' make you a fat diabetic. As we've said, this is good for some and bad for some.

 

Its not "fiscally irresponsible" to finance a driver so you can use it right away just like its not irresponsible nutrition to eat a brownie once in a while. Your post is nuts dude.

[Pepperturbo]

Lots of self righteous fiscally responsible people patting themselves on the back with humble brags on this thread.

 

For some people, financing anything other than a house and car doesn't make sense.

 

I personally know friends and family that think financing a house and/or a car don't even make sense, so THEY actually think anyone carrying a car payment or mortgage is financially irresponsible.

 

Crazy right? To each their own.

 

Making payments, leasing, etc makes sense for a lot of people. It turns out to be a fixed monthly expense, just like membership dues, gym fees, or any subscription service.

 

Overextending yourself is a different story, and a different argument altogether. But to dismiss financing for recreational/luxury items as ridiculous, is itself ridiculous.

 

Our most recent real estate crash left millions of people upside down in homes they couldn't afford. It was lead by financial institutions granting loans to people with little-0 down payment. Those borrowers also didn't anticipate possible change in all economic conditions, which translates to poor judgment. They couldn't afford said loan if they lost their jobs or wanted to sell to get out from under the high mortgage payment.

 

Informed people generally buy real estate for tax deductions, when car loans and other forms of credit provide no deductions. Whether someone sees that or even appreciates that, has no bearing on real estate loan deductibility or how it off-sets income tax-liability.

 

There are two functions any reasonable person considered, fixed expense and variable expense. Fixed directly increases monthly costs, pressuring monthly pay checks. Variable expenses can be controlled and are a choice. Like the difference between joining a private club with fixed monthly dues of $600 as opposed to variable monthly expense of spending $600 at public courses. Private club dues are there whether a person plays golf or not, its like a mortgage (not rent as a person can move). Spending $600 a month at public courses is variable because costs can be adjusted downward if a person needs to cut back expenses, even opt not to play, saving that $600 per month.

 

I disagree with your overextended view. Nobody purposely overextends themselves. It sneaks up on them as a result of adding fixed costs, and not keeping track of OA fixed costs as opposed to income. It doesn't hit home either, till something negative happens, like losing a job or illness, etc.

 

Thinking something makes sense isn't a valid reasoning or an argument if proven fiscal judgment is the greater purpose. Plenty of people think they know which club to hit for the next shot. They factored all possible influences, yet they overlooked a few influential factors and dumped the ball in the drink or sent it OB. In other words, initial judgment was weak leading to being wrong.

 

But I agree with you. Every person has every right to own his decision, dumping the ball in the drink and living with the consequences. But trying to sell it as if it has merit, doesn't fly.

 

The problem with your post is this sentence:

 

"if proven fiscal judgment is the greater purpose".

 

There isn't a single person alive whose finances would collapse if they financed a driver. Your argument is like saying you should never eat a brownie, because physical fitness is important. In moderation, its fine. Just like financing. Your post reads as if someone must either have perfect credit and make no silly decision in the name of fun (the smart guy) or have awful credit and is completely and totally irresponsible (the dumb guy). There is an ocean of grey there, just like having a brownie once in a while doesn't' make you a fat diabetic. As we've said, this is good for some and bad for some.

 

Its not "fiscally irresponsible" to finance a driver so you can use it right away just like its not irresponsible nutrition to eat a brownie once in a while. Your post is nuts dude.

 

You've taken and added "collapsing", as if I said that.. when I did NOT. All the people that lost homes did so because their fixed costs exceeded their income; exceeding income could be as little as $30 too.

 

Sure, they could rob Peter to save Paul, but that only lasts so long. So, contrary to your broad assumption, a $30 month payment can have a derogatory affect when the pay check is pressured by unplanned expenses. Your assumptions are your weakness...

[pinestreetgolf]

Lots of self righteous fiscally responsible people patting themselves on the back with humble brags on this thread.

 

For some people, financing anything other than a house and car doesn't make sense.

 

I personally know friends and family that think financing a house and/or a car don't even make sense, so THEY actually think anyone carrying a car payment or mortgage is financially irresponsible.

 

Crazy right? To each their own.

 

Making payments, leasing, etc makes sense for a lot of people. It turns out to be a fixed monthly expense, just like membership dues, gym fees, or any subscription service.

 

Overextending yourself is a different story, and a different argument altogether. But to dismiss financing for recreational/luxury items as ridiculous, is itself ridiculous.

 

Our most recent real estate crash left millions of people upside down in homes they couldn't afford. It was lead by financial institutions granting loans to people with little-0 down payment. Those borrowers also didn't anticipate possible change in all economic conditions, which translates to poor judgment. They couldn't afford said loan if they lost their jobs or wanted to sell to get out from under the high mortgage payment.

 

Informed people generally buy real estate for tax deductions, when car loans and other forms of credit provide no deductions. Whether someone sees that or even appreciates that, has no bearing on real estate loan deductibility or how it off-sets income tax-liability.

 

There are two functions any reasonable person considered, fixed expense and variable expense. Fixed directly increases monthly costs, pressuring monthly pay checks. Variable expenses can be controlled and are a choice. Like the difference between joining a private club with fixed monthly dues of $600 as opposed to variable monthly expense of spending $600 at public courses. Private club dues are there whether a person plays golf or not, its like a mortgage (not rent as a person can move). Spending $600 a month at public courses is variable because costs can be adjusted downward if a person needs to cut back expenses, even opt not to play, saving that $600 per month.

 

I disagree with your overextended view. Nobody purposely overextends themselves. It sneaks up on them as a result of adding fixed costs, and not keeping track of OA fixed costs as opposed to income. It doesn't hit home either, till something negative happens, like losing a job or illness, etc.

 

Thinking something makes sense isn't a valid reasoning or an argument if proven fiscal judgment is the greater purpose. Plenty of people think they know which club to hit for the next shot. They factored all possible influences, yet they overlooked a few influential factors and dumped the ball in the drink or sent it OB. In other words, initial judgment was weak leading to being wrong.

 

But I agree with you. Every person has every right to own his decision, dumping the ball in the drink and living with the consequences. But trying to sell it as if it has merit, doesn't fly.

 

The problem with your post is this sentence:

 

"if proven fiscal judgment is the greater purpose".

 

There isn't a single person alive whose finances would collapse if they financed a driver. Your argument is like saying you should never eat a brownie, because physical fitness is important. In moderation, its fine. Just like financing. Your post reads as if someone must either have perfect credit and make no silly decision in the name of fun (the smart guy) or have awful credit and is completely and totally irresponsible (the dumb guy). There is an ocean of grey there, just like having a brownie once in a while doesn't' make you a fat diabetic. As we've said, this is good for some and bad for some.

 

Its not "fiscally irresponsible" to finance a driver so you can use it right away just like its not irresponsible nutrition to eat a brownie once in a while. Your post is nuts dude.

 

You've taken and added "collapsing", as if I said that.. when I did NOT. All the people that lost homes did so because their fixed costs exceeded their income; exceeding income could be as little as $30 too.

 

Sure, they could rob Peter to save Paul, but that only lasts so long. So, contrary to your broad assumption, a $30 month payment can have a derogatory affect when the pay check is pressured by unplanned expenses. Your assumptions are your weakness...

 

I said "good for some, bad for some" not "good for all".

 

Your post was insanely broad. You think the people financing the driver are these great unwashed masses who just don't have the wisdom or restraint of PepperTurbo when in reality its a ton of different circumstances all making different decisions. There is no right answer. You've described two situations where people shouldn't finance. There are situations where its fine. Brownies arn't bad because there are fat people and financing isn't bad because there are irresponsible people.

[Pepperturbo]

Lots of self righteous fiscally responsible people patting themselves on the back with humble brags on this thread.

 

For some people, financing anything other than a house and car doesn't make sense.

 

I personally know friends and family that think financing a house and/or a car don't even make sense, so THEY actually think anyone carrying a car payment or mortgage is financially irresponsible.

 

Crazy right? To each their own.

 

Making payments, leasing, etc makes sense for a lot of people. It turns out to be a fixed monthly expense, just like membership dues, gym fees, or any subscription service.

 

Overextending yourself is a different story, and a different argument altogether. But to dismiss financing for recreational/luxury items as ridiculous, is itself ridiculous.

 

Our most recent real estate crash left millions of people upside down in homes they couldn't afford. It was lead by financial institutions granting loans to people with little-0 down payment. Those borrowers also didn't anticipate possible change in all economic conditions, which translates to poor judgment. They couldn't afford said loan if they lost their jobs or wanted to sell to get out from under the high mortgage payment.

 

Informed people generally buy real estate for tax deductions, when car loans and other forms of credit provide no deductions. Whether someone sees that or even appreciates that, has no bearing on real estate loan deductibility or how it off-sets income tax-liability.

 

There are two functions any reasonable person considered, fixed expense and variable expense. Fixed directly increases monthly costs, pressuring monthly pay checks. Variable expenses can be controlled and are a choice. Like the difference between joining a private club with fixed monthly dues of $600 as opposed to variable monthly expense of spending $600 at public courses. Private club dues are there whether a person plays golf or not, its like a mortgage (not rent as a person can move). Spending $600 a month at public courses is variable because costs can be adjusted downward if a person needs to cut back expenses, even opt not to play, saving that $600 per month.

 

I disagree with your overextended view. Nobody purposely overextends themselves. It sneaks up on them as a result of adding fixed costs, and not keeping track of OA fixed costs as opposed to income. It doesn't hit home either, till something negative happens, like losing a job or illness, etc.

 

Thinking something makes sense isn't a valid reasoning or an argument if proven fiscal judgment is the greater purpose. Plenty of people think they know which club to hit for the next shot. They factored all possible influences, yet they overlooked a few influential factors and dumped the ball in the drink or sent it OB. In other words, initial judgment was weak leading to being wrong.

 

But I agree with you. Every person has every right to own his decision, dumping the ball in the drink and living with the consequences. But trying to sell it as if it has merit, doesn't fly.

 

The problem with your post is this sentence:

 

"if proven fiscal judgment is the greater purpose".

 

There isn't a single person alive whose finances would collapse if they financed a driver. Your argument is like saying you should never eat a brownie, because physical fitness is important. In moderation, its fine. Just like financing. Your post reads as if someone must either have perfect credit and make no silly decision in the name of fun (the smart guy) or have awful credit and is completely and totally irresponsible (the dumb guy). There is an ocean of grey there, just like having a brownie once in a while doesn't' make you a fat diabetic. As we've said, this is good for some and bad for some.

 

Its not "fiscally irresponsible" to finance a driver so you can use it right away just like its not irresponsible nutrition to eat a brownie once in a while. Your post is nuts dude.

 

You've taken and added "collapsing", as if I said that.. when I did NOT. All the people that lost homes did so because their fixed costs exceeded their income; exceeding income could be as little as $30 too.

 

Sure, they could rob Peter to save Paul, but that only lasts so long. So, contrary to your broad assumption, a $30 month payment can have a derogatory affect when the pay check is pressured by unplanned expenses. Your assumptions are your weakness...

 

I said "good for some, bad for some" not "good for all".

 

Your post was insanely broad. You think the people financing the driver are these great unwashed masses who just don't have the wisdom or restraint of PepperTurbo when in reality its a ton of different circumstances all making different decisions. There is no right answer. You've described two situations where people shouldn't finance. There are situations where its fine. Brownies arn't bad because there are fat people and financing isn't bad because there are irresponsible people.

 

Your posts ignore and assume. Have a good day.

[GoIrish17]

<p>My opinion is of the contrary. Financing, from the point of view of the business, makes sense for the following reasons.

• Increase the availability of clubs
  
• Golf is expensive; decrease the barrier to entry
  
• Millennials aren't playing golf and a primary reason is because of cost. We finance everything else so why not clubs?
  
• For some, it's a lot easier to spend $50.00 a month, for 12 months, rather than $600 up front
  

 

</p>

 

(just wanted to close that paragraph for you)

[Medic]

After reading about TM making financing available for golf clubs…it kind of got me to thinking. One of my other passions is firearms, and I own a couple of high end 1911's (wilson combat and a customized Colt). I had to scrimp and save and budget and wait to get exactly what I wanted.

 

Recently, Wilson Combat started a financing program for their products…and I imagine it will make purchasing their products a little easier and allow for the 'I want it now' to take over.

 

To get to the point, I have to ask, why has it taken golf so long to get to this? I recently bought a washer and dryer and had the option of dropping a couple grand on the purchase and putting a crimp in my cash flow and savings/emergency fund…or I opted to use a 12 months, same as cash program and I paid the purchase off in 9 months…no interest.

 

I would love to go and get fitted for a set of Miura Baby blades, custom ground wedges, etc., the whole custom thing from start to finish, but dropping that kind of coin in one fell swoop…yeah, kind of jacks with the monthly cash flow, and putting it on a credit card with interest is not the smartest financial decision…however, using someone else's money for 12 months…yeah, I could do that.

 

Do your local shops offer any sort of financing that way or is this even done? I see it done for other products…why not golf?

 

I too am a gun lover. I sold my Springfield Arms 1911-A1 for 3x what I paid for it. Got to love when something ends of paying off for you. At the time I had my eye on something else and used the money for that.

 

But...

 

To get my 1911-A1 I used a layaway plan. I put half down and, with no interest, agreed to come in and make payments for no longer than 6 months until it was paid off. (At the time I was making under $20k/year and was working two or three jobs to make ends meet and still have "fun money". We do what we have to do, right?

But the last thing I needed was credit card debt and so the layaway plan was perfect for me. I knew going in that if I didn't get it paid off within the time allowed there wasn't going to be any extensions or refunds.

 

Seems to me that smaller golf stores would consider doing this for locals.

 

I know two of our younger firefighters are raising families and have a single income home. For them to buy something they have to budget it. It's easier to budget, say, $500 now with an agreement to pay the other $500 within the next 6 months than to come up with $1000 all at once. IMO it isn't "living beyond one's means"; it is more a matter of doing as good as you can with what you have without taking unnecessary risks or making bad decisions/sacrifices.

Public service rarely means getting rich. But with some creative planning the fun can still be had.

[AMM315]

CASH FLOW/OPPORTUNITY COST

 

I had some idiot try to tell me credit cards were risky the other day, I told him they're about as risky as my gun sitting in it's safe. Anything can be risky in the hands of an idiot. Cash and credit is no different.. could I pay $2000 up front for new sticks, yes. Would I prefer to pay $100 a month for 12-18 months, yes please. Earning 10% on money in the market hasn't been tough the past year. I get my sticks now, make the interest on money invested which otherwise would have been spent. Rates still low=equal free money, not in this example but across many products money costs next to nothing.. having said all this, I won't purchase any TM products, but I like that they're coming up with new ideas/solutions, and y'all forget that usually that is beneficial for the consumer.

[GoIrish17]

It's amazing to me when threads like this pop up. There's so many people on GWRX who are waaaay too concerned with how (and on what) other people spend their money. I'm not financing any golf clubs, but I could not care less if someone else decides to do it.

[BigHook25]

Lots of self righteous fiscally responsible people patting themselves on the back with humble brags on this thread.

 

For some people, financing anything other than a house and car doesn't make sense.

 

I personally know friends and family that think financing a house and/or a car don't even make sense, so THEY actually think anyone carrying a car payment or mortgage is financially irresponsible.

 

Crazy right? To each their own.

 

Making payments, leasing, etc makes sense for a lot of people. It turns out to be a fixed monthly expense, just like membership dues, gym fees, or any subscription service.

 

Overextending yourself is a different story, and a different argument altogether. But to dismiss financing for recreational/luxury items as ridiculous, is itself ridiculous.

 

It isn't that leasing or borrowing money is necessary a bad thing, but it is something that needs to be concerned about and watched. When people just keep borrowing money beyond their means and leveraging themselves it becomes something to be concerned about. When it comes down to people leveraging golf clubs it wonder what else they are wondering and behind on.

[wkndhack]

It's amazing to me when threads like this pop up. There's so many people on GWRX who are waaaay too concerned with how (and on what) other people spend their money. I'm not financing any golf clubs, but I could not care less if someone else decides to do it.

No one on here is concerned with how a particular person spends their money. People are expressing an opinion about a hypothetical situation.

 

If a person can afford to buy a $500 club and choose to finance it because paying $60 to $80 extra is more appealing than laying it down up front, then that's their value choice. I personally don't see that demographic being very big. I think people are raising concern is that deals like this attract people who cannot afford a $500 club, whether they finance it or not. Nobody wants to see anybody damage their credit because of a missed or forgotten $22 payment for a driver. Hopefully after this gets going, they come up with some better terms that make more sense for that middle ground scenario of people who have the money but just don't like the upfront cost.

 

There has been alot of complaining on this forum about club costs. Now there is a bunch of support for a method that will be an enabler to even higher prices. "That's not an $800 driver, it's a $31 a month driver. Your last driver was $27 a month, you can pay $4 a month for 4 more yards, right? Give up your Starbucks one day a month."

[pinestreetgolf]

Pinestreetgolf. I see your point about the value of having it now, I just don't see a lot of practical scenarios where it works out like that. I also agree there are no hard rules here.

 

Joe Golfer plays in a weekly 9 hole league league and occasionally a weekend 18. He breaks his driver. He wants a new M2 but only has $200 cash. He can finance one, and pay $60 on top of full retail, but that has value because he plays every week and needs a driver. Or he can maybe grab a used driver from a variety of outlets with his cash on hand, and that driver will likely be 90% or more performance wise of that new one.

 

The true value equation is not just the interest amount, it's the difference in playing full retail as well. The difference to Joe is not $60, it may be $360 if he can get a comparable used driver for his $200 and still have it next day.

 

Your argument portrays it as if you have two choices, buy a $500 club cash or finance it, when you really have another choice of buying a cheaper or used club, of which there are plenty to choose from.

 

I just don't see a scenario where one can afford all the ancillary costs of playing enough to justify paying 20% interest to have a club now, but still needing to finance it.

 

To me, it's hard to justify paying full retail even if you have to cash on hand, when these clubs don't hold value and you can find used or overstocks a few months later for half of initial cost.

 

I don't blame TM for trying, it will probably work out well for them. They aren't forcing anyone to do it. Maybe if the rates go down, it will make more sense for more people. But the people who sign up for this are making an emotional decision and not a rational one. I need this club now! They are attributing personal value to a particular club, or some pride thing of not playing used. If golf is your only hobby and that brand new driver makes you happy, that's a personal value equation. But on the other hand, $300 not spent on equipment will fund a few rounds of actually playing.

 

Your making the same mistake everyone is - that any decision that isn't money maximizing is irrational. That's insane. You don't eat gruel every night - is that an "emotional" decision because you'd rather eat a nice stir fry or whatever? Same with drivers. You can make a rational decision to prioritize a bit of fun over a bit of money. Money is one element of a rational decision, but not the only one. Just because you do something that doesn't maximize your wealth doesn't mean that action is "irrational".

[GoIrish17]

It's amazing to me when threads like this pop up. There's so many people on GWRX who are waaaay too concerned with how (and on what) other people spend their money. I'm not financing any golf clubs, but I could not care less if someone else decides to do it.

No one on here is concerned with how a particular person spends their money. People are expressing an opinion about a hypothetical situation.

 

If a person can afford to buy a $500 club and choose to finance it because paying $60 to $80 extra is more appealing than laying it down up front, then that's their value choice. I personally don't see that demographic being very big. I think people are raising concern is that deals like this attract people who cannot afford a $500 club, whether they finance it or not. Nobody wants to see anybody damage their credit because of a missed or forgotten $22 payment for a driver. Hopefully after this gets going, they come up with some better terms that make more sense for that middle ground scenario of people who have the money but just don't like the upfront cost.

 

There has been alot of complaining on this forum about club costs. Now there is a bunch of support for a method that will be an enabler to even higher prices. "That's not an $800 driver, it's a $31 a month driver. Your last driver was $27 a month, you can pay $4 a month for 4 more yards, right? Give up your Starbucks one day a month."

 

Why do you even care about the why's or the how's that impact someone else's purchase? Does it affect you? You say that no one cares, that it's a hypothetical... then you proceed to express reasons why people should care. There's people in this thread, much like other threads, that have a very preachy tone to their posts about what decisions other people make with their money. My personal opinion- those things fall under "not my business". It's their money, do with it what they want. Even if someone else thinks it's a bad decision. Like I said, I'm not financing, but there isn't one single person on GolfWRX who helped me form that idea.

[2putttom]

I learned a lesson the hard way about using credit. If I don't want to spend the cash to get it then odds are I don't need it. We use credit way to much in this country. 43% of Americans live check to check because of this type of stuff.

BOOM! :nea: there it is.

[Brooky03]

The idea is fine but the interest rate is about double what it should be. You should not be paying more to finance golf clubs than you do on your car and mortgage loans. If the rates get down to around 4% or lower, then it's a more viable option, imo.

 

If somebody is dead set on buying new clubs, the value of the clubs after 6 months is irrelevant to the question of whether or not to finance. The cost of financing is the primary factor; it doesn't matter if the clubs are worth half as much after 6 months.

[wkndhack]

If you go into a demo day with a friend and they want to buy an M2 on credit and you try and stop them, that is telling peo iple how to spend their money. Discussing the generic pros and con's of financing luxury items on a message board to pass the time is not. Even if most of the discussion is on the con's.

 

An individual who chooses to go this path is of no impact to me. But if this becomes a trend, it can be a contributor to OEMs continuing to raise prices, which does affect me as a buyer.

[Pepperturbo]

My thoughts exactly "wkndhack". For anyone to assume I care what others do with their money is absurd and or laughable, pick your poison. :beach:

[STPBMW]

Golf buddy "still gaming the 815 DBD huh?"

 

"Yeah it's not flashy anymore but it's paid off and gets the ball from A to B"

[pinestreetgolf]

If you go into a demo day with a friend and they want to buy an M2 on credit and you try and stop them, that is telling peo iple how to spend their money. Discussing the generic pros and con's of financing luxury items on a message board to pass the time is not. Even if most of the discussion is on the con's.

 

An individual who chooses to go this path is of no impact to me. But if this becomes a trend, it can be a contributor to OEMs continuing to raise prices, which does affect me as a buyer.

 

Its more likely prices would go down (like car prices, adjusted for inflation). If the OEM's can make more money out of interest they'll lower the sticker price. Typically, consumers can be fooled by a lower sticker price and not actually calculate the amount of interest over the entire financing period (which is why they use things like "APR" instead of just saying the exact rate). Further, you will get great deals on just-used equipment that is coming "off lease". There will be massive stocks of six month to a year old drivers if people use this program.

 

Nothing is guaranteed, but it is more likely this will significantly depress prices for those paying cash than significantly raise them for those paying cash (As financing has in almost every single other industry). The 2008 recession was deflationary not inflationary (dollars became worth more, not less). Debt makes cash more valuable and typically leads to price decreases for those who pay cash.

 

My thoughts exactly "wkndhack". For anyone to assume I care what others do with their money is absurd and or laughable, pick your poison. :beach:

 

Nobody assumed you cared what people do with their money. We pointed out you were making a basic mathematical error in your calculus of the benefits of financing because you weren't including the value of using the driver while you finance it (as opposed to not having it while you save for it). This is the basic issue on which whether or not someone should finance hinges - if the time value of the use of the good outweighs the interest payments. Its literally the crux of the decision. Your argument against financing was akin to someone saying mortgages are stupid because they don't consider you can live in the house while you pay it off. The rhetoric and strength of your language was silly when compared to your actual analysis of the financing program. Then, instead of saying what wkndhack did, you made a vague allusion to assumptions of mine and quit the thread.

[Fade]

Tough decision:

 

17 yards less and a payment plan now.

 

OR

 

17 yards less for half the money in a year.

 

OR

 

full distance at full price in a year.

[pinestreetgolf]

CASH FLOW/OPPORTUNITY COST

 

I had some idiot try to tell me credit cards were risky the other day, I told him they're about as risky as my gun sitting in it's safe. Anything can be risky in the hands of an idiot. Cash and credit is no different.. could I pay $2000 up front for new sticks, yes. Would I prefer to pay $100 a month for 12-18 months, yes please. Earning 10% on money in the market hasn't been tough the past year. I get my sticks now, make the interest on money invested which otherwise would have been spent. Rates still low=equal free money, not in this example but across many products money costs next to nothing.. having said all this, I won't purchase any TM products, but I like that they're coming up with new ideas/solutions, and y'all forget that usually that is beneficial for the consumer.

 

Well said.

[gigem_ags]

CASH FLOW/OPPORTUNITY COST

 

I had some idiot try to tell me credit cards were risky the other day, I told him they're about as risky as my gun sitting in it's safe. Anything can be risky in the hands of an idiot. Cash and credit is no different.. could I pay $2000 up front for new sticks, yes. Would I prefer to pay $100 a month for 12-18 months, yes please. Earning 10% on money in the market hasn't been tough the past year. I get my sticks now, make the interest on money invested which otherwise would have been spent. Rates still low=equal free money, not in this example but across many products money costs next to nothing.. having said all this, I won't purchase any TM products, but I like that they're coming up with new ideas/solutions, and y'all forget that usually that is beneficial for the consumer.

And this would be the exact reason I used this program about an hour after I got the email from Taylormade. I am a day trader. Since the election I have made no less than 12% and I trade on margin so that number is really closer to 22-24%. It costs me less money to pay $55 a month on my brand new M1 irons with steelfiber shafts and pay 9.9% than it would to pull the $1500 out of the market and pay up front. Simple as that. At 35 years old I'm one of the youngest members at my club and live on the golf course. Not many people I know would call me financially irresponsible.

[nsxguy]

Lots of self righteous fiscally responsible people patting themselves on the back with humble brags on this thread.

 

For some people, financing anything other than a house and car doesn't make sense.

 

I personally know friends and family that think financing a house and/or a car don't even make sense, so THEY actually think anyone carrying a car payment or mortgage is financially irresponsible.

 

Crazy right? To each their own.

 

Making payments, leasing, etc makes sense for a lot of people. It turns out to be a fixed monthly expense, just like membership dues, gym fees, or any subscription service.

 

Overextending yourself is a different story, and a different argument altogether. But to dismiss financing for recreational/luxury items as ridiculous, is itself ridiculous.

 

Informed people generally buy real estate for tax deductions

 

Next you're going to tell us that they make charitable contributions to save on taxes,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, :beruo:

[nsxguy]

There is sooooo much mis/disinformation on this thread there's no way I can quote it all (I know, I know, thank goodness :lol: ). Obviously there aren't many Wharton Business School graduates here. :rolleyes:

 

$60/mth for 4 months ? And then what ? The TM programs are for 18 or 30 months and you HAVE to keep the club(s) for 67-75% of that time before you can "upgrade" at all. https://taylormadegolf.com/upgrade-program-terms.html

 

 

And who ACTUALLY pays for their equipment in cash NOW anyway ?

 

Do you guys really carry $500-$2000 around with you to buy clubs ? Write a check ?

 

Nope. You hand the cashier a credit card. :rolleyes:

 

Do you guys pay off the credit card in full every month ?

 

Nope, you carry a balance. (OK, OK, I know - "Not me" - but YOU are the exception, not the rule)

 

Sheesh

 

The TM program is a JOKE !!!

 

20% ?!?!?! And regular fixed payments ? Your own credit card is probably less than 20% and you can vary the payments however you like - not to mention selling the clubs and paying off the loan whenever you like.

 

TM knows that once you buy, if you want to take "advantage" :rolleyes: of their program you'll be buying TM AGAIN. That't the whole point of the program - built in "new" buyers/repeat business. SAME THING with car leasing - want a new car and your lease isn't up ? No problem, we'll structure another deal and whatever you're upside down we'll roll into the new car. Talk about scams !!! :D

 

"Hey, do you really want to try to sell your clubs on your own or let US take 'em in trade on new clubs ?" Can you say "Snake Oil salesman" ??? :rolleyes:

 

From creditcard.com

What is the average credit card debt?

Average credit card debt is not a single number. Instead, you will get many different answers, depending on how you measure it. The average debt is:

• $1,154 per card that doesn't carry a balance (the amount is charged, but paid off monthly)2
  
• $1,678 per account, U.S. adults with a credit report and Social Security number3
  
• $3,805 per person, U.S. resident adults4
  
• $5,323 per cardholder, excluding unused cards and store cards12
  
• $5,284 per U.S. adult with a credit card5
  
• $7,527 per card that usually carries a balance2
  
• $9,600 per household with credit card debt6
  

[Fade]

CASH FLOW/OPPORTUNITY COST

 

I had some idiot try to tell me credit cards were risky the other day, I told him they're about as risky as my gun sitting in it's safe. Anything can be risky in the hands of an idiot. Cash and credit is no different.. could I pay $2000 up front for new sticks, yes. Would I prefer to pay $100 a month for 12-18 months, yes please. Earning 10% on money in the market hasn't been tough the past year. I get my sticks now, make the interest on money invested which otherwise would have been spent. Rates still low=equal free money, not in this example but across many products money costs next to nothing.. having said all this, I won't purchase any TM products, but I like that they're coming up with new ideas/solutions, and y'all forget that usually that is beneficial for the consumer.

 

Did the idiot also try to tell you that it might take paying $100 a month for 24 months?

[pinestreetgolf]

Lots of self righteous fiscally responsible people patting themselves on the back with humble brags on this thread.

 

For some people, financing anything other than a house and car doesn't make sense.

 

I personally know friends and family that think financing a house and/or a car don't even make sense, so THEY actually think anyone carrying a car payment or mortgage is financially irresponsible.

 

Crazy right? To each their own.

 

Making payments, leasing, etc makes sense for a lot of people. It turns out to be a fixed monthly expense, just like membership dues, gym fees, or any subscription service.

 

Overextending yourself is a different story, and a different argument altogether. But to dismiss financing for recreational/luxury items as ridiculous, is itself ridiculous.

 

Informed people generally buy real estate for tax deductions

 

Next you're going to tell us that they make charitable contributions to save on taxes,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, :beruo:

 

Nobody would buy a house if you didn't get to live in while you paid the mortgage. A house is an awful investment *except for the fact* that you don't need to also find a place to live. If you had to pay off your entire mortgage THEN move into the house, nobody would do it and it would be awful. The time you get to use the good has significant value.

 

As with virtually every single good, the chief value of financing is using the good while you make the payments. Real estate is no exception. And real estate can certainly depreciate, just like a driver (in fact, some real estate can depreciate so fast it wipes you out - I'd like to see someone file Chapter 7 because of their M2 bill). The value is in the use of the house. That's why people finance instead of saving until they can pay cash for it. The same benefits are there if you save to pay cash in 20 years, but *since you get to live in it* financing makes sense. Its the same here, just with fewer zeros and an asset that is guarenteed to depreciate (At least you know going in and you're not playing real estate roulette).

 

Most people get fooled into thinking their real estate is worth alot more 10 years later because they don't adjust for inflation. Its a decent investment, but historically speaking it isn't great.

 

 

There is sooooo much mis/disinformation on this thread there's no way I can quote it all (I know, I know, thank goodness :lol: ). Obviously there aren't many Wharton Business School graduates here. :rolleyes:

 

$60/mth for 4 months ? And then what ? The TM programs are for 18 or 30 months and you HAVE to keep the club(s) for 67-75% of that time before you can "upgrade" at all. https://taylormadego...gram-terms.html

 

 

And who ACTUALLY pays for their equipment in cash NOW anyway ?

 

Do you guys really carry $500-$2000 around with you to buy clubs ? Write a check ?

 

Nope. You hand the cashier a credit card. :rolleyes:

 

Do you guys pay off the credit card in full every month ?

 

Nope, you carry a balance. (OK, OK, I know - "Not me" - but YOU are the exception, not the rule)

 

Sheesh

 

The TM program is a JOKE !!!

 

20% ?!?!?! And regular fixed payments ? Your own credit card is probably less than 20% and you can vary the payments however you like - not to mention selling the clubs and paying off the loan whenever you like.

 

TM knows that once you buy, if you want to take "advantage" :rolleyes: of their program you'll be buying TM AGAIN. That't the whole point of the program - built in "new" buyers/repeat business. SAME THING with car leasing - want a new car and your lease isn't up ? No problem, we'll structure another deal and whatever you're upside down we'll roll into the new car. Talk about scams !!! :D

 

"Hey, do you really want to try to sell your clubs on your own or let US take 'em in trade on new clubs ?" Can you say "Snake Oil salesman" ??? :rolleyes:

 

From creditcard.com

 

What is the average credit card debt?

Average credit card debt is not a single number. Instead, you will get many different answers, depending on how you measure it. The average debt is:

• $1,154 per card that doesn't carry a balance (the amount is charged, but paid off monthly)2
  
• $1,678 per account, U.S. adults with a credit report and Social Security number3
  
• $3,805 per person, U.S. resident adults4
  
• $5,323 per cardholder, excluding unused cards and store cards12
  
• $5,284 per U.S. adult with a credit card5
  
• $7,527 per card that usually carries a balance2
  
• $9,600 per household with credit card debt6
  

 

Debt in a vacuum is meaningless. You cannot know anything at all about whether debt is bad or not without also knowing about assets and income (Equity = Assets - Debt, the fundamental accounting equation). This is where people make the mistake. if I told you I owed a million dollars you'd be like OMFG A MILLION YOU ARE SO IRRESPONSIBLE but then what if I told you I made $3m a year and had assets of $1b? A million in debt doesn't matter at that point - its tiny. Posting up debt amounts without ALSO discussing income and assets is like holding a sign that says "I have no idea what I'm talking about". A debt load of $5k is fine if you make a certain amount. Our GDP is $17.95 trillion. Worrying about driver financing in this context is like worrying about owing someone $5 when you make $50 million a year. Its silly. It isn't even a drop of water in the ocean or a grain of sand on a beach.

 

Its not a "Scam". For some people its a cool program that will let them keep getting a new driver without the hassle of shopping for it, getting approved again, etc... For some people it will add to more bad financial decisions. For some people it will make pre-opwned cash drivers slightly cheaper. For some it will allow them to get an M2 without waiting 4 months to save for it. Its fine.

 

EDIT: Just a quick edit, because silly statistics like you posted are somewhat infuriating. They don't account for assets. If I buy a TV for $1,000 with a credit card that I could then sell on criaglist for $500, your numbers would report "DebT" of $1,000 (the amount on the card). But that isn't correct. You have an asset (the TV) you can sell to relieve half the debt. You have $500 still, its just in a different form of asset than cash. You should report $500 of debt for that person, not $1,000. But ins't what they report. They just tot up the credit card debt as if the assets or income didn't exist. They lump mortgage debt in the same way - the average american family owes $210k of debt!~!!!!! panic!!!! OMFG!!!! but 68% own houses that could be sold to pay the debt. Its the same with the national debt. OMG ITS HUGE!!!!! But it doesn't account for any assets or any income.

 

If you are going to report debt numbers, you need the asset and income numbers as well or you are just spouting garbage.

 

SECOND EDIT: Apple has billions in debt. You should probably ring them and tell them how dumb and irresponsible they are.

[nsxguy]

Lots of self righteous fiscally responsible people patting themselves on the back with humble brags on this thread.

 

For some people, financing anything other than a house and car doesn't make sense.

 

I personally know friends and family that think financing a house and/or a car don't even make sense, so THEY actually think anyone carrying a car payment or mortgage is financially irresponsible.

 

Crazy right? To each their own.

 

Making payments, leasing, etc makes sense for a lot of people. It turns out to be a fixed monthly expense, just like membership dues, gym fees, or any subscription service.

 

Overextending yourself is a different story, and a different argument altogether. But to dismiss financing for recreational/luxury items as ridiculous, is itself ridiculous.

 

Informed people generally buy real estate for tax deductions

 

Next you're going to tell us that they make charitable contributions to save on taxes,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, :beruo:

 

Nobody would buy a house if you didn't get to live in while you paid the mortgage. A house is an awful investment *except for the fact* that you don't need to also find a place to live. If you had to pay off your entire mortgage THEN move into the house, nobody would do it and it would be awful. The time you get to use the good has significant value.

 

As with virtually every single good, the chief value of financing is using the good while you make the payments. Real estate is no exception. And real estate can certainly depreciate, just like a driver (in fact, some real estate can depreciate so fast it wipes you out - I'd like to see someone file Chapter 7 because of their M2 bill). The value is in the use of the house. That's why people finance instead of saving until they can pay cash for it. The same benefits are there if you save to pay cash in 20 years, but *since you get to live in it* financing makes sense. Its the same here, just with fewer zeros and an asset that is guarenteed to depreciate (At least you know going in and you're not playing real estate roulette).

 

Most people get fooled into thinking their real estate is worth alot more 10 years later because they don't adjust for inflation. Its a decent investment, but historically speaking it isn't great.

 

 

There is sooooo much mis/disinformation on this thread there's no way I can quote it all (I know, I know, thank goodness :lol: ). Obviously there aren't many Wharton Business School graduates here. :rolleyes:

 

$60/mth for 4 months ? And then what ? The TM programs are for 18 or 30 months and you HAVE to keep the club(s) for 67-75% of that time before you can "upgrade" at all. https://taylormadego...gram-terms.html

 

 

And who ACTUALLY pays for their equipment in cash NOW anyway ?

 

Do you guys really carry $500-$2000 around with you to buy clubs ? Write a check ?

 

Nope. You hand the cashier a credit card. :rolleyes:

 

Do you guys pay off the credit card in full every month ?

 

Nope, you carry a balance. (OK, OK, I know - "Not me" - but YOU are the exception, not the rule)

 

Sheesh

 

The TM program is a JOKE !!!

 

20% ?!?!?! And regular fixed payments ? Your own credit card is probably less than 20% and you can vary the payments however you like - not to mention selling the clubs and paying off the loan whenever you like.

 

TM knows that once you buy, if you want to take "advantage" :rolleyes: of their program you'll be buying TM AGAIN. That't the whole point of the program - built in "new" buyers/repeat business. SAME THING with car leasing - want a new car and your lease isn't up ? No problem, we'll structure another deal and whatever you're upside down we'll roll into the new car. Talk about scams !!! :D

 

"Hey, do you really want to try to sell your clubs on your own or let US take 'em in trade on new clubs ?" Can you say "Snake Oil salesman" ??? :rolleyes:

 

From creditcard.com

 

What is the average credit card debt?

Average credit card debt is not a single number. Instead, you will get many different answers, depending on how you measure it. The average debt is:

• $1,154 per card that doesn't carry a balance (the amount is charged, but paid off monthly)2
  
• $1,678 per account, U.S. adults with a credit report and Social Security number3
  
• $3,805 per person, U.S. resident adults4
  
• $5,323 per cardholder, excluding unused cards and store cards12
  
• $5,284 per U.S. adult with a credit card5
  
• $7,527 per card that usually carries a balance2
  
• $9,600 per household with credit card debt6
  

 

Debt in a vacuum is meaningless. You cannot know anything at all about whether debt is bad or not without also knowing about assets and income (Equity = Assets - Debt, the fundamental accounting equation). This is where people make the mistake. if I told you I owed a million dollars you'd be like OMFG A MILLION YOU ARE SO IRRESPONSIBLE but then what if I told you I made $3m a year and had assets of $1b? A million in debt doesn't matter at that point - its tiny. Posting up debt amounts without ALSO discussing income and assets is like holding a sign that says "I have no idea what I'm talking about". A debt load of $5k is fine if you make a certain amount. Our GDP is $17.95 trillion. Worrying about driver financing in this context is like worrying about owing someone $5 when you make $50 million a year. Its silly. It isn't even a drop of water in the ocean or a grain of sand on a beach.

 

Its not a "Scam". For some people its a cool program that will let them keep getting a new driver without the hassle of shopping for it, getting approved again, etc... For some people it will add to more bad financial decisions. For some people it will make pre-opwned cash drivers slightly cheaper. For some it will allow them to get an M2 without waiting 4 months to save for it. Its fine.

 

EDIT: Just a quick edit, because silly statistics like you posted are somewhat infuriating. They don't account for assets. If I buy a TV for $1,000 with a credit card that I could then sell on criaglist for $500, your numbers would report "DebT" of $1,000 (the amount on the card). But that isn't correct. You have an asset (the TV) you can sell to relieve half the debt. You have $500 still, its just in a different form of asset than cash. You should report $500 of debt for that person, not $1,000. But ins't what they report. They just tot up the credit card debt as if the assets or income didn't exist. They lump mortgage debt in the same way - the average american family owes $210k of debt!~!!!!! panic!!!! OMFG!!!! but 68% own houses that could be sold to pay the debt. Its the same with the national debt. OMG ITS HUGE!!!!! But it doesn't account for any assets or any income.

 

If you are going to report debt numbers, you need the asset and income numbers as well or you are just spouting garbage.

 

SECOND EDIT: Apple has billions in debt. You should probably ring them and tell them how dumb and irresponsible they are.

 

My friend, slow your roll. You're reading my post ALL wrong. And I never said having debt is dumb OR irresponsible. I'm on YOUR side. You're one of the few on this thread who's made any sense.

 

With all the silly postings here my favorite was "Financing is the number one money maker for banks". I mean talk about Captain Obvious.

 

The TM upgrading isn't a scam, it's a "scam" (of sorts), just like car leasing in that they try to reel you in and hope (or know) how often people re-up , and OFTEN early and at a much greater cost than they expect just because they want something newer and shinier.

 

That's what TM is doing as well

 

The credit card issue is simply showing that sooooooo many people live beyond their means and buy something today and pay it off in installments because they don't want to wait.

 

I GET that using OPM can be a GREAT thing but credit MISmanagement is (unfortunately) far more "normal".

[pinestreetgolf]

 

My friend, slow your roll. You're reading my post ALL wrong. And I never said having debt is dumb OR irresponsible. I'm on YOUR side. You're one of the few on this thread who's made any sense.

 

With all the silly postings here my favorite was "Financing is the number one money maker for banks". I mean talk about Captain Obvious.

 

The TM upgrading isn't a scam, it's a "scam" (of sorts), just like car leasing in that they try to reel you in and hope (or know) how often people re-up , and OFTEN early and at a much greater cost than they expect just because they want something newer and shinier.

 

That's what TM is doing as well

 

The credit card issue is simply showing that sooooooo many people live beyond their means and buy something today and pay it off in installments because they don't want to wait.

 

I GET that using OPM can be a GREAT thing but credit MISmanagement is (unfortunately) far more "normal".

 

My apologies. I thought you were arguing TM shouldn't offer this because household debt is already too high (others have said this, and it's nonsense). I thought the misinformation statement was directed at me.